Atheism requires as much faith as religion?

Atheism requires as much faith as religion? bearvspuma : The only problem with this rationalization is that ita s assuming all athiests are so because theya re intelligent in the ways of science and reasoning and all people that believe in a form of god are unintelligent. Full Story

Since: Jun 12

Location hidden

#218504 Mar 11, 2014
Skombolis wrote:
<quoted text>People often take the "slaves obey your master" verse out of context a lot too. It goes on to acknowledge unfair treatment and says when they are victimized to such that instead of reacting with violence they should turn their suffering over to God
Just as believers are taught to turn the other cheek.
There is a passage that talks about taking slaves when battling enemies of God in a particular conflict but just like many things in the OT those are not part of the new covenant.
Love God
Love your neighbor as yourself
Do unto others as you would have them do unto you
Love your enemy, neighbor, and brother
Those that have a problem with Mosaic law or things that happened in the OT really have an issue with Judaism if anything. While obviously part of our Bible, modern Christians are under different rules. If someone has an issue with Christianity today then they should show what in the New Testament they have a problem with. And any believer not abiding by it has to answer why not but that falls on them, not the faith
Agreed. So many negative judge its attached to this post utilizing the judge it would have been pointless.

“The eye has it...”

Since: May 09

Russell's Teapot

#218505 Mar 11, 2014
lightbeamrider wrote:
<quoted text> Yeah two sources rammed together and what are we not understanding? You need more than vague accusations. Could you be specific or is the accusation equal conviction? C'mon scaritual, can't you do any better? Besides that you did not answer my question. Did you actually read the link? I did. It was quit good. Provided context. That is why I don't think you read the link. At this point it sounds like you are trying to save face.
We can beat this horse to death. I'll supply something from another area of the bible, in which Moses is following the commands of the deity, specifically from the deity.

25) Then the LORD spoke to Moses, saying,26)ďYou and Eleazar the priest and the heads of the fathersí households of the congregation take a count of the booty that was captured, both of man and of animal;27) and divide the booty between the warriors who went out to battle and all the congregation.28)ďLevy a tax for the LORD from the men of war who went out to battle, one in five hundred of the persons and of the cattle and of the donkeys and of the sheep;29) take it from their half and give it to Eleazar the priest, as an offering to the LORD.30)ďFrom the sons of Israel?s half, you shall take one drawn out of every fifty of the persons, of the cattle, of the donkeys and of the sheep, from all the animals, and give them to the Levites who keep charge of the tabernacle of the LORD.Ē

^^The deity commands^^. Continuing.

31) Moses and Eleazar the priest did just as the LORD had commanded Moses. 32) Now the booty that remained from the spoil which the men of war had plundered was 675,000 sheep,
33) and 72,000 cattle,
34) and 61,000 donkeys,
35) and of human beings, of the women who had not known man intimately, all the persons were 32,000.
36) The half, the portion of those who went out to war, was as follows: the number of sheep was 337,500,
37) and the LORDíS levy of the sheep was 675;
38) and the cattle were 36,000, from which the LORDíS levy was 72;
39) and the donkeys were 30,500, from which the LORDíS levy was 61;
40) and the human beings were 16,000, from whom the LORDíS levy was 32 persons.

Above, they did as commanded, and below, complete the commands in full.

41) Moses gave the levy which was the LORDíS offering to Eleazar the priest, just as the LORD had commanded Moses. Numbers 31:25-41(NAS)
All verses taken from BibleWorks 9.0, not Google. It's a handy software to have. I used the NAS translation, but there are around 100+ to choose from.

A screenshot, just so you won't squall about it.
http://i1246.photobucket.com/albums/gg601/sca ...

Anyway.... All of the captives were slaves, however...

Moses gave the 'Lords" portion(32 persons), as directed by the deity, to Eleazar(the priest).

What do you suppose those people were used for?

Slaves.

"The main source of non-Hebrew slaves were prisoners of war."
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Judaism_and_slav ...

(I used "the Google" to supply that link above)

That's a fine deity you've got there, huh.

“KiMare'a the Monster Mutation”

Since: Nov 10

Location hidden

#218506 Mar 11, 2014
It aint necessarily so wrote:
<quoted text>
Regarding people assuming that flashing lights in the sky represent an alien visitation,
I assumed no such thing. Nor did I limit the incident as you do to cover your discomfort. Nor am I afraid to hold the idea, as you are.

I simply asked you to explain the numerous aspects and the consequence.

You could not. And yet you made a decisive rejection.

Ah, the 'rational atheist' oxymoron.

Smirk.

Since: Apr 09

Location hidden

#218507 Mar 11, 2014
lightbeamrider wrote:
<quoted text> Well if atheism does not explain anything what good is it? What practical value does it have? The same practical value as tits on a tomcat?
The same value as not believing in Santa Claus....none.

But, then, it isn't supposed to have a value.

Atheism is a lack of belief in deities.

Is this too confusing for you?

“ Ich liebe Erdbeeren!”

Since: Mar 14

Munich, Germany

#218508 Mar 11, 2014
Atheism is to religion as baldness is to hair colour.
ChristINSANITY is EVIL

Windsor, Canada

#218509 Mar 11, 2014
lightbeamrider wrote:
<quoted text> Well if atheism does not explain anything what good is it? What practical value does it have? The same practical value as tits on a tomcat?
If anything,atheists know the difference between fantasy and reality
unlike your religious simpletons,
So,atheism makes people more honest

www.evilbible.com

“Life may be sweeter for this”

Since: Nov 08

Fennario

#218510 Mar 11, 2014
RiversideRedneck wrote:
Oh but I did give a clear explanation for it and I gave a clear distinction between abolish and fulfill.
You're unbelievable - literally and figuratively.

“Life may be sweeter for this”

Since: Nov 08

Fennario

#218511 Mar 11, 2014
RiversideRedneck wrote:
Inevitable?!? Says who? First of all, those men chose the priesthood. They chose a life of celibacy to serve God. Second, over. 98% of them remain celibate and do nothing even remotely close to pedophelia. Nuns are the sane way, choosing a life of celibacy. Those that choose pedophelia do so at their own accord, NOT by any situation created by the RCC.
Yeah, inevitable.

This isn't worth the effort to write more than that there is zero doubt that such an arrangement will generate priest-altar boy sex. Zero.

“The eye has it...”

Since: May 09

Russell's Teapot

#218512 Mar 11, 2014

“Life may be sweeter for this”

Since: Nov 08

Fennario

#218513 Mar 11, 2014
Skombolis wrote:
<quoted text>You probably won't think this answer is much better but to be specific, the OT is said to have been written by God putting the words in the author's mouth
The New Testament, half the translations for 2Timothy 2:13 say God-breathed and the other half sat scripture is God-inspired
Normally the vast majority of translations will say the same thing or two words with the same meaning. This particular case does kinda fall into a cattagiry I think you think exists a lot more than it does but it does exist and that is where scripture can support two different views. It may not in actuality and if I was an expert in language I could probably say which translation is more likely accurate but I have no clue. In fact I may try to research that verse as I have known about this for a while
Thanks for that.

We get both answers in these threads - the bible is the dictated word of the creator, and that it's not, or not completely.

Both answers have a problem. If the words are those of a creator deity, we need to know why there are errors, contradictions, ambiguities. and why there are multiple writing styles.

And if men have interjected their ideas in various unmarked places - well - which parts are from a god and which parts are just some guy's opinion? You can see why a person might want to know.

“Nothing can stop, This Pony..”

Since: Dec 10

Location hidden

#218514 Mar 11, 2014
lightbeamrider wrote:
<quoted text> Aura you know owning people has a lot of precedent in history. It is practically the norm. It does not violate any known laws of nature. If we cannot own people why can we own animals since humans are nothing more than big brained ape like creatures? I know you can produce universal human rights documents which is nothing more than feel good policies not worth the paper they are written on. If they cannot be universally enforced then they are not worth diddly squat. Any group which chooses to own others and had the power to do so is just as valid and they do. You folks come off as these moral purists but there is nothing stopping you from sticking your finger in the air and adjusting to any set of values or abuses as normal any time since you have no real anchor. No real base.
Who are you to hand wave the universal declaration of human rights away , saying those who believe them to be moral standards can dismiss them, when you are the first one to dismiss them?
Then it must be you think yours is a higher standard than all men. Some men believe equality is not dictated by some mythical here, but imposed by ourselves, at the end of the day it will only be men you find with grievances and only men who will champion these things. But you extremely arrogant and fallacious in your conception, because you either believe what is right and true , IS right and true, and not just for you, but for ALL men. Or your just another tyrant and how easily tyrants turn away from any set of rules, whether imposed from imaginary beliefs in skydaddys or from your own father.

“Nothing can stop, This Pony..”

Since: Dec 10

Location hidden

#218515 Mar 11, 2014
Just Think wrote:
<quoted text>
The same value as not believing in Santa Claus....none.
But, then, it isn't supposed to have a value.
Atheism is a lack of belief in deities.
Is this too confusing for you?
Actually he does, lightbeamrider would be reduced to nothing if he felt there wasn't a skydaddy to point him in the right direction.
Linus has a blanket , lightbeamrider has a skydaddy.

“Life may be sweeter for this”

Since: Nov 08

Fennario

#218516 Mar 11, 2014
RiversideRedneck wrote:
<quoted text>
Yes I did, I watched the video.
He took 2 pieces off of the mousetrap and changed it into a tie clip, a paperweight or a spitwad thrower.
he buried himself because he proved that the irreducible complexity of the simple mousetrap demonstrates that if you remove one of the five components, it's no longer a mousetrap.
<quoted text>
Why? I answered you. I told you that many pieces of that arch could be removed and it'd still stand. I also told you that it's a natural thing. Learn to read entire posts.
No, you didn't watch the video <
> or you wouldn't have written "if you remove one of the five components, it's no longer a mousetrap" At 00:47 he shows us the 4-paert mousetrap, at 1:22 the 3-part mousetrap, at 1:29 the 2-part mousetrap, and at 1;36, a one part mousetrap.

And you insist on changing my argument about the arch from a segment to a piece.

I think we're done here.

“Life may be sweeter for this”

Since: Nov 08

Fennario

#218517 Mar 11, 2014
It aint necessarily so wrote:
Hell yes IANS thinks that. He calls it "the church" and swears that all Christian churches teach the exact same thing. It's ludicrous.
Aerobatty wrote:
Gee, I read a lot of IANS posts and I've never seen him say that.
Thanks. You are correct, and the Redneck is mistaken yet again.

“Life may be sweeter for this”

Since: Nov 08

Fennario

#218518 Mar 12, 2014
lightbeamrider wrote:
From an atheist POV what is objectively wrong with owning people?
It's unjust and unkind. I wouldn't want to be treated that way.

From a biblical POV, what is right about it? Why doesn't your bible condemn owning people?
lightbeamrider wrote:
As an atheist that is a luxury you do not have since you have no objective basis for morals
Your subjective choice to believe in one particular god is not an objective basis for anything. Therefore, as a Christian, you not only don't have an objective basis for morality, you don't have a rational or a compassionate one, either.
lightbeamrider wrote:
nor can you adequately explain human sense of right and wrong.
Sure we can. The sense of right and wrong is a gift of evolution. It is a beneficial adaptation. And we're here to tell you that slavery is wrong.

“Life may be sweeter for this”

Since: Nov 08

Fennario

#218519 Mar 12, 2014
lightbeamrider wrote:
The most brutal slave owner can go on killing and raping his slaves year after year and after he dies there is simply nothingness according to what you believe. No justice for the victims under his care he murdered. No justice for the females he raped. Perhaps he raped them and sold them off to another rapist. or perhaps he simple killed them after he was done with them. He simply dies and there is no justice for his victims under your assumptions.
Your bible doesn't offer justice. Do you know the "just world fallacy," a term that refers to the tendency to believe that the universe is just and that people get what they deserve? This is from Matt Dillahunty:

"The kind of world you want to live in has no bearing on the world you do live in ... Life isnít fair, and the desire for justice that you express is one of the key foundations of most every religion. Weíre all aware that sometimes good goes unrewarded and evil goes unpunished (sometimes itís even the good that is punished), and so some justice seekers invent a security blanket to ensure that they arenít mired in depression ... The realization that thereís no reason to expect justice is what ensures that we take steps to impose justice.

"Your particular God concept/view of justice represents the height of irresponsibility and injustice. Your chosen religion has us born as reprobates, guilty before weíve even taken a single breath, and responsible for things weíve never done. It offers instant undeserved forgiveness for the most horrible of crimes and punishes people whose only crime is disbelief. Forever.

"This justice you so admire is no such thing. Itís divine edict, itís arbitrary, capricious and ultimately unjust and immoral ... It advocates slavery, denigrates women, curses homosexuals, orders the stoning of unruly children, sanctioning wars of extermination, condones human sacrifices, and poisons every mind it touches. It includes only one unforgivable crime, disbelief. Is that just?"

“Life may be sweeter for this”

Since: Nov 08

Fennario

#218520 Mar 12, 2014
KiMare wrote:
Christians were virtually the ONLY ones fighting slavery.
Who were they fighting? Muslims?

“KiMare'a the Monster Mutation”

Since: Nov 10

Location hidden

#218521 Mar 12, 2014
KiMare wrote:
Christians were virtually the ONLY ones fighting slavery.
It aint necessarily so wrote:
<quoted text>
Who were they fighting? Muslims?
You mean William Wilberforce in Europe?

Or how about Charles Turner Torrey of the Underground Railroad in the US?

Not Muslims, but atheists.

The 'rational atheist' oxymoron ignorance, hate and bigotry is showing again...

Since: May 10

Location hidden

#218522 Mar 12, 2014
It aint necessarily so wrote:
<quoted text>
It's unjust and unkind. I wouldn't want to be treated that way.
From a biblical POV, what is right about it? Why doesn't your bible condemn owning people?
<quoted text>
Your subjective choice to believe in one particular god is not an objective basis for anything. Therefore, as a Christian, you not only don't have an objective basis for morality, you don't have a rational or a compassionate one, either.
<quoted text>
Sure we can. The sense of right and wrong is a gift of evolution. It is a beneficial adaptation. And we're here to tell you that slavery is wrong.
The slaveowners' morality was a gift of their evolution. If our present state is a result of material evolution and nothing more, he had no choice but to own slaves, and his moral choice to do so is equal, neither better nor worse, than the moral sentiment against slavery.

Further, there is the indication the slaveowner is more highly evolved than you. Willingness to enslave men of another race is certainly a survival advantage, feeding the young, allowing more offspring to thrive.

Dancing to the tune of our DNA - Nazis, slaveowners, terrorists, humanitarians, humanists.

All equally moral.

“It's just a box of rain...”

Since: May 07

Knoxville, TN

#218523 Mar 12, 2014
It aint necessarily so wrote:
<quoted text>
Your bible doesn't offer justice. Do you know the "just world fallacy," a term that refers to the tendency to believe that the universe is just and that people get what they deserve? This is from Matt Dillahunty:
"The kind of world you want to live in has no bearing on the world you do live in ... Life isnít fair, and the desire for justice that you express is one of the key foundations of most every religion. Weíre all aware that sometimes good goes unrewarded and evil goes unpunished (sometimes itís even the good that is punished), and so some justice seekers invent a security blanket to ensure that they arenít mired in depression ... The realization that thereís no reason to expect justice is what ensures that we take steps to impose justice.
"Your particular God concept/view of justice represents the height of irresponsibility and injustice. Your chosen religion has us born as reprobates, guilty before weíve even taken a single breath, and responsible for things weíve never done. It offers instant undeserved forgiveness for the most horrible of crimes and punishes people whose only crime is disbelief. Forever.
"This justice you so admire is no such thing. Itís divine edict, itís arbitrary, capricious and ultimately unjust and immoral ... It advocates slavery, denigrates women, curses homosexuals, orders the stoning of unruly children, sanctioning wars of extermination, condones human sacrifices, and poisons every mind it touches. It includes only one unforgivable crime, disbelief. Is that just?"
The desire to believe in a just universe necessitates such fictions as karma and reincarnation. I've been contending with a strange one about that. He claims that natural laws as opposed to human laws prove the existence of god, but he can't prove the existence of the natural laws without referring to god. He cannot see the circularity of his logic.

The universe makes so much more sense when viewed in the context of random chance. No need to explain how any good can come from a man drowning during an outing to the beach with his fiancee while attending his wake on what should have been their wedding day. It becomes okay to say, "This sucks. This REALLY sucks!!!" Same goes when an unrepentant sadist is "blessed" with fortune that would make Donald Trump envious.

People should do their best to be fair and just. To expect the same of the universe is delusional.

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