Atheism requires as much faith as rel...

Atheism requires as much faith as religion?

There are 258515 comments on the Webbunny tumblelog story from Jul 18, 2009, titled Atheism requires as much faith as religion?. In it, Webbunny tumblelog reports that:

Atheism requires as much faith as religion? bearvspuma : The only problem with this rationalization is that ita s assuming all athiests are so because theya re intelligent in the ways of science and reasoning and all people that believe in a form of god are unintelligent.

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Since: May 09

Location hidden

#216484 Mar 3, 2014
Darwins Stepchild wrote:
<quoted text>
Christians make up between 80% and 90% of the population. And they are responsible for 32% of charitable donations?
That means non-Christians...between 10% and 20% of the population...are responsible for 68% of all charitable donations.
Wow, those Christians are even stingier than I thought.
BTW...the Bill and Melinda Gate Foundation was started in 1997, meaning it has been around 17 years. As of last year, Bill Gates had personally donated 28 BILLION to the foundation. So, 28 billion over 16 years...1.75 billion per year on average. More than 8 times all your Christians combined.
And that is just one atheist.
BTW...add all Christians and just Bill Gates...just the one atheist...Christians only donated 11% of that total. Using your figures, your 32% is WAY high.
(BTW...it only took a few seconds to come up with the facts about Bill Gates and his charity. But, of course, you couldn't be bothered to spend even that little time checking some facts. For you, "facts" are what you want to be true.)
(And BTW...I personally think you have WAY understated what Christians actually give.$214 million might sound really big...until you realize that is less than $1 per person in the US.)
'

Well, numbers aren't Ar aR's friend.

“Turning coffee into theorems”

Since: Dec 06

Trapped inside a Klein Bottle

#216485 Mar 3, 2014
Six_Of_One wrote:
<quoted text>
At best this would make Christians charitable. Certainly doesn't prove Christianity is correct or that atheists require some kind of faith.
RR needs to check his figures.$214 million is pocket change (literally) on the scale of the national population.

“Turning coffee into theorems”

Since: Dec 06

Trapped inside a Klein Bottle

#216486 Mar 3, 2014
Darwins Stepchild wrote:
<quoted text>
Christians make up between 80% and 90% of the population. And they are responsible for 32% of charitable donations?
That means non-Christians...between 10% and 20% of the population...are responsible for 68% of all charitable donations.
Wow, those Christians are even stingier than I thought.
BTW...the Bill and Melinda Gate Foundation was started in 1997, meaning it has been around 17 years. As of last year, Bill Gates had personally donated 28 BILLION to the foundation. So, 28 billion over 16 years...1.75 billion per year on average. More than 8 times all your Christians combined.
And that is just one atheist.
BTW...add all Christians and just Bill Gates...just the one atheist...Christians only donated 11% of that total. Using your figures, your 32% is WAY high.
(BTW...it only took a few seconds to come up with the facts about Bill Gates and his charity. But, of course, you couldn't be bothered to spend even that little time checking some facts. For you, "facts" are what you want to be true.)
(And BTW...I personally think you have WAY understated what Christians actually give.$214 million might sound really big...until you realize that is less than $1 per person in the US.)
I should also point out this only includes Bill Gates donations to the Gates Foundation and does not include any other charitable donations he has made.

“Turning coffee into theorems”

Since: Dec 06

Trapped inside a Klein Bottle

#216487 Mar 3, 2014
scaritual wrote:
<quoted text>'
Well, numbers aren't Ar aR's friend.
So true. LOL
blacklagoon

Boston, MA

#216488 Mar 3, 2014
RiversideRedneck wrote:
Posted on PTAG:
Enlightened wrote:
Atheism is now the worst kind of religion.
Don't think it's a religion? Well, let's define "religion."
Religion - an organized collection of beliefs, cultural systems, and world views that relate humanity to an order of existence.
Anyone disagree with that? Good.
Atheist Beliefs:
1. There is no creator, the universe has either always existed, or it punched its own ticket
2. Christianity is a problem for mankind that needs to be eradicated for furtherance of the species
3. The Bible is an overly-long collection of lies and propaganda
4. Evolution and the Big Bang Theory (somehow) disprove the existence of God
Atheist Cultural Systems:
1. Atheist "churches," where non-believers gather to discuss...hmm, not a clue what they discuss there but I'm definitely going to check one out
2. Internet Atheism, where groups of like-minded atheists post hate rants at Christians, then rate each others' posts as "Awesome!" while rating the Christians' posts as "Shite"
Atheist World Views:
1. Mankind can take care of itself
2. We live, we die, that's that
3. Christianity must be eradicated
4. Religious intolerance is the source of mankind's problems
So you see, not only is Atheism now a religion, it is a self-contradicting, hypocritical, and irrational religion. It is EXACTLY what it purports Christianity to be.
But I do love me some Atheists. They are the sugar in my coffee.
Proceed, Atheists.
Your definition is someones opinion, the REAL definition that is found in Webster's dictionary is the one commonly used: RELIGION.......The belief and worship of a superhuman controlling power, a personal God or Gods.

Now to your individual points. Atheistic positions.

1.) Rejection of Theistic claims dealing with a creator God. That the universe may have always existed is simply one of many possibilities.

2,) Not just Christianity, but all unsupported beliefs concerning an all powerful being.

3.) The bible is an ancient book of stories written by frighten old men and has absolutely worth or relevance for todays societies.

4.) Evolution and the BB say nothing about the existence of God, both are science driven and science is silent on the existence of God.

As to the Atheist World View:

1&2 are accurate, 3.) Eradicated is rather a strong word, rather replaced by reason, logic and skepticism.

4.) Rather religious intolerance contributes to man-kinds problems.

Nice try, but most of theses premisses are outright wrong, or overly stated.

Atheism is the REJECTION of Theistic claims.

You have my permission to continue to try and make it a religion. Maybe it makes you feel more comfortable to have us in bed with you sharing your unsupported beliefs. Kind of takes some of the embarrassment away. LOL
YellowStar

Eden Prairie, MN

#216489 Mar 3, 2014
Darwins Stepchild wrote:
<quoted text>
I think you are misstating what atheists think. The atheist view is that there is NO evidence of any gods, and that believing in things with no evidence to support them is irrational.
Most atheist I know don't demand absolute proof. What they do want, however, is evidence beyond reasonable doubt.
.
So you are saying atheism also requires some faith, the faith that that which they scientifically reason to believe is in keeping with that which they do not know, until science is able to test it and affirm their faith. Well I think atheists overstate their case. There is a order to all things and an intelligence inherent in all matter that science has already recognized but has not reached a point of understanding it. Just because the fairy-tale "god" of most religions isn't reasonable or scientifically supported doesn't mean a creative force of a higher order which may govern the physical and metaphysical universe doesn't exist, it just hasn't been proved beyond a reasonable doubt for atheists.
blacklagoon

Boston, MA

#216490 Mar 3, 2014
It aint necessarily so wrote:
<quoted text>
Have you heard of or seen a movie called Powder? Powder, the title character, is a bizarre, pale, empath who happens upon a redneck hunter who has just shot a deer, and connects the hunter to the deer by touching them both, enabling the hunter to experience the terror and horror of the deer as it suffered and died.
This is a clip of the scene which somebody seems to have added farting sounds to - LOL. Try to imagine how poignant this scene would be without them:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v =szaq3dE2sHEXX
Yes I have seen this movie, but forgot about this scene.

There is also a science fiction book written by Isaac Asimov about the Earth being controlled by an Alien race who's one unpardonable act by humans is cruelty to animals. To that end they have everyone at a bull fight suddenly feel the fear and agony the bull feels. The book is called The Overlords.
YellowStar

Eden Prairie, MN

#216491 Mar 3, 2014
YellowStar wrote:
<quoted text>
So you are saying atheism also requires some faith, the faith that that which they scientifically reason to believe is in keeping with that which they do not know, until science is able to test it and affirm their faith. Well I think atheists overstate their case. There is a order to all things and an intelligence inherent in all matter that science has already recognized but has not reached a point of understanding it. Just because the fairy-tale "god" of most religions isn't reasonable or scientifically supported doesn't mean a creative force of a higher order which may govern the physical and metaphysical universe doesn't exist, it just hasn't been proved beyond a reasonable doubt for atheists.
Scientists such as Einstein recognized an intuitive force that guides them to wonder and discover new things that have yet to be verified by the scientific method which may be at odds with accepted or "conventional" scientific beliefs. Each new discovery opens new doors while at the same time closes others. I'm just sayin.....we are still just children in understanding the universe and our place in it, and how it all came to be.

Since: Jan 11

Location hidden

#216492 Mar 3, 2014
scaritual wrote:
Don't forget the eight piece box.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v =72j7Ars1r5gXX
KFC: Life and Death in a Bucket

http://cdn.backyardchickens.com/2/20/2079e702...

“Turning coffee into theorems”

Since: Dec 06

Trapped inside a Klein Bottle

#216493 Mar 3, 2014
YellowStar wrote:
<quoted text>
So you are saying atheism also requires some faith,
Not at all. Do you consider it a matter of faith that there is no evidence of Santa Claus?
YellowStar wrote:
the faith that that which they scientifically reason to believe is in keeping with that which they do not know, until science is able to test it and affirm their faith.
??? This strikes me a just word salad. Please clarify what you mean.
YellowStar wrote:
Well I think atheists overstate their case.
Really?
YellowStar wrote:
There is a order to all things
Yes, but that does not mean a god. It in no way is evidence of a god. Merely that there are rules by which the universe operates.

BTW...If you claim your God can break the rules, then there are no rules. If God must obey the rules, then why call him God?
YellowStar wrote:
and an intelligence inherent in all matter that science has already recognized but has not reached a point of understanding it.
Please demonstrate where intelligence is inherent. This strikes me as being more wishful thinking than an argument.
YellowStar wrote:
Just because the fairy-tale "god" of most religions isn't reasonable or scientifically supported doesn't mean a creative force of a higher order which may govern the physical and metaphysical universe doesn't exist, it just hasn't been proved beyond a reasonable doubt for atheists.
Ah, yes. God-of-the-Gaps. Gotta love it.

I think Tim Minchin, in his beat poem Storm, said it very well...

"Throughout history
Every mystery
EVER solved has turned out to be
Not Magic."

Since: Jan 11

Location hidden

#216494 Mar 3, 2014
RiversideRedneck wrote:
All you gotta do is look at atheist leaders from the last century and you have your answer. Atheist leaders have killed more in the last century than religion has in the history of man.
Atheism provides no direction. Do you understand what that means to your argument?
RiversideRedneck wrote:
No. This isn't Minority Report. People should not be killed for a belief. Sam Harris wouldn't want to be executed for his beliefs, would he?
Who said it was Minority Report?

If you know what someone believes, if they believe you deserve to die, that is a relevant and actionable piece of information, if they're pointing a gun at you.
RiversideRedneck wrote:
Wrong. The US is not hunting down jihadists for their beliefs, we're hunting them down for their actions.
I don't have the rules of engagement handy, but I'm pretty sure the only requirement that needs to be met is identifying a person as Al Qaeda. They don't get a trial or inquiry.
RiversideRedneck wrote:
Except for the unneeded slander, I agree with you. Killing should be the last resort.
I'll point out your dichotomous nature any time it's relevant.

So you disagree with capital punishment, stand your ground laws, and killing in defense of property?
YellowStar

Eden Prairie, MN

#216495 Mar 3, 2014
Darwins Stepchild wrote:
<quoted text>
Not at all. Do you consider it a matter of faith that there is no evidence of Santa Claus?
<quoted text>
??? This strikes me a just word salad. Please clarify what you mean.
<quoted text>
Really?
<quoted text>
Yes, but that does not mean a god. It in no way is evidence of a god. Merely that there are rules by which the universe operates.
BTW...If you claim your God can break the rules, then there are no rules. If God must obey the rules, then why call him God?
<quoted text>
Please demonstrate where intelligence is inherent. This strikes me as being more wishful thinking than an argument.
<quoted text>
Ah, yes. God-of-the-Gaps. Gotta love it.
I think Tim Minchin, in his beat poem Storm, said it very well...
"Throughout history
Every mystery
EVER solved has turned out to be
Not Magic."
Santa Claus? Magic? I never suggested either so now you're just being stupid. It's quantum physics and experiments in quantum mechanics that suggest intelligence is inherent in all matter, not me, so go argue that with quantum physicists, I'm just relying on the experts in the field...which I'll bet you are not part of.

“The intuitive mind is a sacred gift and the rational mind is a faithful servant. We have created a society that honors the servant and has forgotten the gift.”~Albert Einstein

Since: Jan 11

Location hidden

#216496 Mar 3, 2014
RiversideRedneck wrote:
Self defense of a belief? No. You're trying to sugar coat Harris' vile opinion.
“Some beliefs are so dangerous that it may be ethical to kill people for believing them” Sam Harris
That is a very dangerous notion.
Hardly.
Then you should be willing to "disarm" Sam Harris, he wants to kill a lot of people. Let's kill him before he has the chance.
O_o
The only vile opinion here is your own. Do you have any interest in what Harris was actually saying?

http://atheistethicist.blogspot.com/2007/05/m...

Read his book or watch one his videos concerning the book, or just read the link above.

If you cannot move forward in a productive way, I'm going to consider you to be unworthy of my attention.
virtuanna

Texarkana, TX

#216497 Mar 3, 2014
Rosa_Winkel wrote:
<quoted text>
Who are you planning on killing, schizo?
You're the psycho that brought up the subject, and we all know WHY.
virtuanna

Texarkana, TX

#216498 Mar 3, 2014
Buck Crick wrote:
<quoted text>
The humanists aspire to power on the rationale that they are better atheists than Stalin or Mao.
Then along comes a guy like Sam Harris and screws the pooch.
Mr. Prissypants - I like that. Harris has a very punchable face.
He contradicts himself too often to make a great leader. I suspect it is a side effect of all that LSD he took as a college student. Men who talk in circles need to be smacked with angular objects. ;)

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virtuanna

Texarkana, TX

#216499 Mar 3, 2014
blacklagoon wrote:
<quoted text>Easy to run you believers off, all one has to do is ask you to provide evidence for your Demon God, and off you run. Those that stay and try and show us their evidence, usually completely embarrass themselves with rainbows, trees, and laughing babies as their evidence. I usually end up ROTFLMAO.
You do know that religious beliefs are a danger to society right? That unsupported beliefs are what caused 9/11 and a host of other horrific acts?
"This" is not the Prove There's a God thread, moron.

Zealots of ANY ideology are dangerous; much like you, Psycho.

Since: Jan 11

Location hidden

#216500 Mar 3, 2014
RiversideRedneck wrote:
Self defense of a belief? No. You're trying to sugar coat Harris' vile opinion.
“Some beliefs are so dangerous that it may be ethical to kill people for believing them” Sam Harris
That is a very dangerous notion.
How vile would you rate an opinion that people deserve to be tortured for an eternity for lacking a specific belief?
virtuanna

Texarkana, TX

#216501 Mar 3, 2014
blacklagoon wrote:
<quoted text>Kind of a shame that Theists don't have such an elegant spokesman as the brilliant Sam Harris. The best you guys can do are idiots like Ken Hovin and William Lane Craig.
There are other coming up to fill the gap that Christopher Hitchens left, Matt Dillahunty for one, a brilliant young Atheists who host the Atheist Experience out of Austin Texas. His specialty is destroying young earth creationists. He chews em up, and spits em out, really fun to watch.
If Harris were brilliant he would not have been caught in so many lies.

He speaks like a late night "as seen on tv" marketer, slick and fast, not brilliant.

Matt Dillweed? ahahahahaha, what a dweeb, ahahaha, that's hilarious. Oh gee, what a relief THAT is!

I've watched those creeps and they are only legends in their own minds.

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Since: Jan 11

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#216502 Mar 3, 2014
RiversideRedneck wrote:
Men out in Kentucky view hunting and guns about as equal to sports, it's very important to them.
To them, offering to raffle off 25 guns is equivalent to a church raffling off Super bowl tickets.
We're willing to let you in on the most important truth of the universe, that will save you from an eternity of torture, and give you a path to eternal happiness. And if that doesn't do it for you, FREE GUNS!

This is just one of the more unusual examples of religion luring people in with something other than what they are actually selling. I'm a lot more disgusted with Veggie Tales and the like.

“Turning coffee into theorems”

Since: Dec 06

Trapped inside a Klein Bottle

#216503 Mar 3, 2014
YellowStar wrote:
<quoted text>
Santa Claus? Magic? I never suggested either so now you're just being stupid. It's quantum physics and experiments in quantum mechanics that suggest intelligence is inherent in all matter, not me, so go argue that with quantum physicists, I'm just relying on the experts in the field...which I'll bet you are not part of.
“The intuitive mind is a sacred gift and the rational mind is a faithful servant. We have created a society that honors the servant and has forgotten the gift.”~Albert Einstein
I suggest you don't use Einstein to support your case because he said a LOT that goes against it. His ideas of "sacred" do not match up with yours at all.

And, yes, Santa Claus. As long as we are going to be talking about beings with no evidence of existence, why discriminate? Certainly you've heard it before? Should I have mentioned the Tooth Fairy instead? Or maybe Make Make (pronounced Mawkay Mawkay if you didn't know) if you want to get into actual gods? There is just as much evidence of Make Make as there is for Jehovah. Yet I doubt you would make a Make-Make-of-the-Gaps argument. Likely you would consider it very silly.

And, yes, magic. Miracles are magic. Miracles defy the laws of physics. Magic defies the laws of physics. Same difference. That fact may offend you, but deal with it.

I would strongly expect that I know a fair amount more about quantum mechanics than you do since I have actually studied the subject...both undergrad and graduate levels. Plus a lot of extra reading on my own. Physics is a hobby of mine.

And QM shows probabilistic behavior. Not intelligent behavior. You have been listening to someone that doesn't know anything about QM either. Electrons are not intelligent, nor do they act in a manner as if an intelligence is guiding them. While probabilistic individually, they act in a very predictable fashion when viewed en masse.

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