Atheism requires as much faith as rel...

Atheism requires as much faith as religion?

There are 255511 comments on the Webbunny tumblelog story from Jul 18, 2009, titled Atheism requires as much faith as religion?. In it, Webbunny tumblelog reports that:

Atheism requires as much faith as religion? bearvspuma : The only problem with this rationalization is that ita s assuming all athiests are so because theya re intelligent in the ways of science and reasoning and all people that believe in a form of god are unintelligent.

Join the discussion below, or Read more at Webbunny tumblelog.

“Ditat Deus”

Since: Jul 12

Location hidden

#213106 Feb 18, 2014
Zachary Gima wrote:
Is that sort of like, stay out of the Congo so you won't contract Malaria?
LOL

Sure, that works...

“Ditat Deus”

Since: Jul 12

Location hidden

#213107 Feb 18, 2014
blacklagoon wrote:
No, I am not anti-abortion.
So you're ok with millions of potential babies being killed every time your lady swallows?

“Ditat Deus”

Since: Jul 12

Location hidden

#213108 Feb 18, 2014
blacklagoon wrote:
You are stupid aren't you? I cited your holy book and the words ASSOCIATED with your God. Different from "I cited God." Yes I know, the difference is difficult for you to grasp, but keep trying!!!!!
That's a helluva corner you've painted yourself into, my man.

First you quote Jesus saying we can get bitten by snakes and it's ok but when I quote Jesus showing that you're misunderstanding what you're reading, you get all pissy and argue "who cares what the bible says!"

Funny...
blacklagoon

Boston, MA

#213109 Feb 18, 2014
OG Kush wrote:
<quoted text>
You described yourself perfectly, you really don't understand it do you?
you can handcrank a model T and it'll run it but it doesn't mean it's a Mercedes.
Try to be a real composer instead of a second-tier trumpet player - try having access to literally hundreds of thousands of tones composing entire orchestration and when you're done it'll sound like hundreds of musicians playing . do that with your trumpet then I'll be impressed.
Even the B3 has become electronic haven't you noticed? Forget Wersi, think tyros think any number of companies that make synthesizers.
There's a product, he could be fossilized now, but is called 'band in a box'. I suggest you educate yourself on what you can do with electronic music.
By trying this simple piece of software. For amateurs in the world of music it's a godsend.
Synthesizers are the wave of the future
I'm sure you mean well but you're thinking is rather Antiquated.
Teachers should move their students forward into the future not backward into the past like religion.
"The reasonable man adapts himself to the world; the unreasonable one persists to adapt the world to himself. Therefore all progress depends on the unreasonable man."
I see, you're advocating being lazy and letting a machine do all the work for you. I am a composer, and realize that removing all of the elements that make a composer what he is, is not only wrong, but counterproductive. Unless you yourself are a composer it would be difficult for you to understand. Having all of the work done for you, as in the program you're talking about, rob you of internalizing the music. You never learn the ranges and characteristics of each instrument, you never learn the dynamic possibilities given a specific range. You never learn about mixed orchestration, how different instruments sound when mixed together. How those sounds become different when octave unisons are used. So in the end you NEVER fully understand the art of orchestration. Further problems arise when the person using this program listens to the playback. A real composer recognizes that the computer is lying to them, that is NOT what horns, woodwinds and strings actually sound like. You are receiving false information and basing your musical choices on this false information.

For a musical hack like you, or anyone that thinks they can become an instance composer of serious music, then this is the program for you. For those of us who are serious about composing, and cherish the art of composition, these programs are worthless. That is exactly why I forbid my students form using the computer or any other programs to compose their music, I know how much it robs them, I know the false information they would receive, and more important how it robs their ears, they would no longer have to rely on their ears to hear the music, it's already done for them, and it robs them of internalizing their music.

Using these music programs means:

1.) Loss of internalizing the music

2.) Contributes to the inability to "hear" in your head, the music.

3.) Contributes to the extreme lack of knowledge about orchestration.

4.) Delivers false information regarding the sounds of all instruments

5) Contributes to the inability to understand the dynamic ranges for which the instruments are capable of playing within a specific register

6.) Contributes to the lack of knowledge concerning mixed orchestration.

7.) Robs the composer of hearing melody harmony relationships, and being about to "pre-hear" these relationships.

8.) Contributes to the lack of understanding the effects of various articulations.

9.) Contributes to the lack of understanding breathing issues with wind players and bow directions with string players

10.) Limits the landscape that a composer can observe, programs limit it to 8 bars on the screen. A composer working with a hand written score can see 16 to 32 bar of score.

Seems like an awful lot of negative aspects for your program

“The eye has it...”

Since: May 09

Russell's teapot

#213110 Feb 18, 2014
RiversideRedneck wrote:
Mrs RR & I did our taxes last week. There's no more "husband" and "wife", there's now "taxpayer1" and "taxpayer2". The IRS did that to avoid confusion due to all the states where SSM is now legal....
I'm not sure why that bothers you since you've claimed the basis of marriage is a sacred, or sanctified, union, according to religious beliefs and isn't a contractual arrangement.

Isn't it just enough that you're married in the eye(S) of your deity? Sanctified and holy?
blacklagoon

Boston, MA

#213111 Feb 18, 2014
RiversideRedneck wrote:
<quoted text>
So you're ok with millions of potential babies being killed every time your lady swallows?
I certainly am, and enjoy every moment, don't you?

Since: Dec 12

Yes, I'm an Atheist.

#213112 Feb 18, 2014
RiversideRedneck wrote:
<quoted text>I just call it like it is.

A secretary is a secretary, not an administrative assistant.

A janitor is a janitor, not a sanitation technician.

A wife biting you in the chest out of anger is a bitch, not a wife.
A sanctified bi!ch?

“Ditat Deus”

Since: Jul 12

Location hidden

#213113 Feb 18, 2014
scaritual wrote:
I'm not sure why that bothers you since you've claimed the basis of marriage is a sacred, or sanctified, union, according to religious beliefs and isn't a contractual arrangement.
Isn't it just enough that you're married in the eye(S) of your deity? Sanctified and holy?
You make a pretty good point there, scarscar.

In the eyes of God it doesn't matter.

It just feels shitty to be reduced from "husband" to "taxpayer1" to suit the needs of people, like some here, that think marriage is just a legal contract.

Change isn't easy, I guess.

“Ditat Deus”

Since: Jul 12

Location hidden

#213114 Feb 18, 2014
blacklagoon wrote:
I certainly am, and enjoy every moment, don't you?
Naw...

I usually throw the babies on her face or watch them spill down her back....

“The eye has it...”

Since: May 09

Russell's teapot

#213115 Feb 18, 2014
KiMare wrote:
KiMare wrote:
<quoted text>
LOL, very clever until you look at the second link that comes up;
http://withalliamgod.wordpress.com/2011/01/21 ...
Bazinga!
<quoted text>
You respond to an exposed lie with a diversion?
You need to apologize.
What you supplied was a refutation based upon an unclaimed exact copy of your religious mythology. It was a straw man argument/refutation.

No one claims Christianity is an - exact copy - of a previously existing mythology.

Concepts and elements within the other mythologies are pointed out, and it's noted that the Christian mythology shares similarities or common themes with an older mythology - which is a trademark of mythologies, they borrow from older mythologies - that existed before Christianity.

That's a disingenuous Christian tactic in responding to those observations that Christianity shares similarities with preexisting mythic beliefs.

Christians alter the observations made by scholars that point out those common elements, trying to change those observations to a claim of Christianity being an exact copy of other mythologies.

That isn't the case.
OG Kush

Orange Park, FL

#213117 Feb 18, 2014
blacklagoon wrote:
<quoted text>I see, you're advocating being lazy and letting a machine do all the work for you. I am a composer, and realize that removing all of the elements that make a composer what he is, is not only wrong, but counterproductive. Unless you yourself are a composer it would be difficult for you to understand.

For a musical hack like you, or anyone that thinks they can become an instance composer of serious music, then this is the program for you.

Using these music programs means:
1.) Loss of internalizing the music
2.) Contributes to the inability to "hear" in your head, the music.
3.) Contributes to the extreme lack of knowledge about orchestration.
4.) Delivers false information regarding the sounds of all instruments
5) Contributes to the inability to understand the dynamic ranges for which the instruments are capable of playing within a specific register
6.) Contributes to the lack of knowledge concerning mixed orchestration.
7.) Robs the composer of hearing melody harmony relationships, and being about to "pre-hear" these relationships.
8.) Contributes to the lack of understanding the effects of various articulations.
9.) Contributes to the lack of understanding breathing issues with wind players and bow directions with string players
10.) Limits the landscape that a composer can observe, programs limit it to 8 bars on the screen. A composer working with a hand written score can see 16 to 32 bar of score.
Seems like an awful lot of negative aspects for your program
Yeah way too negative and antiquated to suit my needs.

Electronic Music producers get to work with audio engineers and musicians to get the best our of their sound an put it on a record, sound technicians have to make sure the music is on par, and audio engineers get to actually record artists.

This is an excellent job, though very in-depth and requires many skills. There have been so many success stories in this industry as well. Simon Cowell, Snoop Dogg, Dr. Dre, Missy Elliot, Brian Eno, Randy Jackson, Jay-Z, Timbaland, and many others have mastered this area of work and made a very good salary in doing so.

Music schools can give budding producers, sound technicians or audio engineers a leg up. Going to a four year college for this purpose is difficult for most people because of the time it takes and how expensive it is. Plus, in four year colleges, you may earn a degree, but never have any hands-on practice in your field.

Many attend one or two year programs that specialize in production and audio engineering. This is an excellent choice because these technical schools have so many advantages, such as being cost and time efficient and having many helpful job placement programs for students.

There are programs where students can work in real studios every day instead of a classroom setting. Most people teaching are professions in their field and will be imparting first-hand information to their students.

Technical schools are also supplied with the latest equipment because technical schools realize that students can not go out into the workforce not knowing the latest technology.

Certain programs have mentoring programs, where they will send you to work with a real music producer, audio or sound engineer, or sound technician and learn the industry first hand.
Electronic Music producers especially must know so many subjects in depth, such as music theory, the songwriting process, mixing and editing, working with musicians and engineers, and using sound effects and samples to better the song.

Learn to teach your students the future professor you'll be a better teacher for it.

Remember the richest child is poor without music

“The Bible is no science book”

Since: Jan 08

Location hidden

#213118 Feb 18, 2014
OG Kush wrote:
<quoted text>
You're living in the world of the past musically.
Of course there's nothing wrong with this but electronic music is the future.
The technology is still in its infancy yet we have human voice coming out of electronic instruments.
You must not get out very much there's a whole world of electronics that have been bypassed.
So feel free to pick your banjo remember the good old days of Carlos Montoya and Andre Segovia on the acoustic guitar. For rock Yngwie Malmsteen.
Revel in the magic of Maynard Ferguson and Arturo Sandoval on your much beloved trumpet.
But in the end run... electronic music will dominate.
Electronic music will have its place, but a real artist and a real instrument will always have a place in peoples heart and soul. Music comes from the heart and every musician brings it out of his chosen instrument. His, nobody elses. Everybody on the planet can tell the difference between the guitar music of say Eric Clapton and B.B. King. Electronic just cant do that.
blacklagoon

Boston, MA

#213119 Feb 18, 2014
OG Kush wrote:
<quoted text>
You described yourself perfectly, you really don't understand it do you?
you can handcrank a model T and it'll run it but it doesn't mean it's a Mercedes.
Try to be a real composer instead of a second-tier trumpet player - try having access to literally hundreds of thousands of tones composing entire orchestration and when you're done it'll sound like hundreds of musicians playing . do that with your trumpet then I'll be impressed.
Even the B3 has become electronic haven't you noticed? Forget Wersi, think tyros think any number of companies that make synthesizers.
There's a product, he could be fossilized now, but is called 'band in a box'. I suggest you educate yourself on what you can do with electronic music.
By trying this simple piece of software. For amateurs in the world of music it's a godsend.
Synthesizers are the wave of the future
I'm sure you mean well but you're thinking is rather Antiquated.
Teachers should move their students forward into the future not backward into the past like religion.
"The reasonable man adapts himself to the world; the unreasonable one persists to adapt the world to himself. Therefore all progress depends on the unreasonable man."
FACT, before a student can move forward into the future, he MUST learn about the past, the tradition, the body of work by the giants, without which, the future becomes meaningless.

“Ditat Deus”

Since: Jul 12

Location hidden

#213120 Feb 18, 2014
OG Kush wrote:
There have been so many success stories in this industry as well. Simon Cowell, Snoop Dogg, Dr. Dre, Missy Elliot, Brian Eno, Randy Jackson, Jay-Z, Timbaland,
None of those people make music or are musical artists.

Just sayin.

“Ditat Deus”

Since: Jul 12

Location hidden

#213121 Feb 18, 2014
blacklagoon wrote:
<quoted text>FACT, before a student can move forward into the future, he MUST learn about the past, the tradition, the body of work by the giants, without which, the future becomes meaningless.
I seriously doubt that people like Snoop Dogg or Simon Cowell care much about the true artistry of music.

“Don't try to goad me...”

Since: Nov 07

... I'm a goadless heathen.

#213122 Feb 18, 2014
blacklagoon wrote:
<quoted text>Some good points. If you had a choice of dancing to "emotionless" electronic music, or a live band playing the kind of music you like to dance to, which would you choose? Would you not find the experience of interacting with human musicians far more attractive than a DJ playing electronic music"
Shouldn't music, like any other art, be appreciated for the emotional reaction it inspires in the listener, regardless of genre, era or instrument?" I would think that would be true, but doesn't it depend on your standards? You can certainly dance to someone banging two rocks together creating a beat, and maybe another hitting a hollow tree stump with a stick. You can look at a stick figure and call it a work of art, or you can look at art work by some of the masters, same thing with literature and music. What are your expectations for the art form, what standards do you have, what is it that inspires you. If looking at stick figures and listening to two rocks being smashed together inspires you then fine, those are your standards, a no one should find fault with that.
As a creative person and one who enjoys listening to substantial creative endeavors, for music my standards are very high. It's the same with the art work I enjoy and that inspires me.
Now you have me thinking about music as a performance art vs. music as something you hear.

I don't particularly appreciate concerts, but only because I'm not comfortable amongst large masses of people. However...

- I went to see a group I enjoy in an intimate setting, and yes, I much preferred the experience to listening to their recordings, even though the songs were the same.
- I can very much enjoy the performance of a DJ who shows skill in animating and electrifying his crowd, as well as a good "body performance"
- Similarly, I can imagine even rocks and tree stumps could being played in a way to move people emotionally (who is that group that plays garbage cans and rubber boots?). If that makes me a musical trog, then I suppose that's me.
- "Would you not find the experience of interacting with human musicians far more attractive than a DJ playing electronic music" This made me wonder. Do you similarly dismiss recordings of non-electronic music? Are you a purist for the performance aspect or for the instrument(s) played?

At one time, perhaps rocks and hollow sticks and tightly-pulled innards were all we had. I wonder if anyone decried the appearance of drumsticks and valves and tuners.
blacklagoon

Boston, MA

#213123 Feb 18, 2014
OG Kush wrote:
<quoted text>
Yeah way too negative and antiquated to suit my needs.
Electronic Music producers get to work with audio engineers and musicians to get the best our of their sound an put it on a record, sound technicians have to make sure the music is on par, and audio engineers get to actually record artists.
This is an excellent job, though very in-depth and requires many skills. There have been so many success stories in this industry as well. Simon Cowell, Snoop Dogg, Dr. Dre, Missy Elliot, Brian Eno, Randy Jackson, Jay-Z, Timbaland, and many others have mastered this area of work and made a very good salary in doing so.
Music schools can give budding producers, sound technicians or audio engineers a leg up. Going to a four year college for this purpose is difficult for most people because of the time it takes and how expensive it is. Plus, in four year colleges, you may earn a degree, but never have any hands-on practice in your field.
Many attend one or two year programs that specialize in production and audio engineering. This is an excellent choice because these technical schools have so many advantages, such as being cost and time efficient and having many helpful job placement programs for students.
There are programs where students can work in real studios every day instead of a classroom setting. Most people teaching are professions in their field and will be imparting first-hand information to their students.
Technical schools are also supplied with the latest equipment because technical schools realize that students can not go out into the workforce not knowing the latest technology.
Certain programs have mentoring programs, where they will send you to work with a real music producer, audio or sound engineer, or sound technician and learn the industry first hand.
Electronic Music producers especially must know so many subjects in depth, such as music theory, the songwriting process, mixing and editing, working with musicians and engineers, and using sound effects and samples to better the song.
Learn to teach your students the future professor you'll be a better teacher for it.
Remember the richest child is poor without music
All these people you mentioned, and all in the industry now, use autocorrect, a device to alter their pitch when they go out of tune, usually most of the time. So you precious technology allows performers to basically cheat. Not how to sing in tune and phrase properly, that would take years of study and cut into their profit margins. Learn how to project your voice? Unnecessary, electronic will take care of that, dynamic ranges, unheard of from the people you mentioned.

So now we bring to the forefront how electronics replaces talent:

1.) Autotune during a performance, no longer necessary to develope good pitch control.

2.) Vocal quality during a performance, no longer a concern, electronics will cover your flaws

3.) Melodic phrasing, not important in most popular styles of music.

4.) Dynamic range, not important in most popular music.

RESULT, anyone who can remember some lyrics can set themselves up with all the latest technology and perform in front of thousands, and sound pretty good, at least good for that simplistic style of music.

Wonderful, your "wave of the future" has stripped all skill and craft out of vocalists. They no longer need to develope their ears, work on sound projection, spend countless hours working on vocal quality and proper breathing techniques, and how to deliver the lyrics. Why study and devote time to developing a graft when electronics can do it for you. Wonderful future you have there, I'll stick to the human element were dedication and passions are still the important factors.

As I said before, you have lowered your standards of excellence to a low never imagined, and you're right in step with the general music consumer, fortunately there will always be the small percentage of people who still want humanity in their music.
blacklagoon

Boston, MA

#213124 Feb 18, 2014
Cvvl wrote:
<quoted text>
Now you have me thinking about music as a performance art vs. music as something you hear.
I don't particularly appreciate concerts, but only because I'm not comfortable amongst large masses of people. However...
- I went to see a group I enjoy in an intimate setting, and yes, I much preferred the experience to listening to their recordings, even though the songs were the same.
- I can very much enjoy the performance of a DJ who shows skill in animating and electrifying his crowd, as well as a good "body performance"
- Similarly, I can imagine even rocks and tree stumps could being played in a way to move people emotionally (who is that group that plays garbage cans and rubber boots?). If that makes me a musical trog, then I suppose that's me.
- "Would you not find the experience of interacting with human musicians far more attractive than a DJ playing electronic music" This made me wonder. Do you similarly dismiss recordings of non-electronic music? Are you a purist for the performance aspect or for the instrument(s) played?
At one time, perhaps rocks and hollow sticks and tightly-pulled innards were all we had. I wonder if anyone decried the appearance of drumsticks and valves and tuners.
I still enjoy listening to recordings of live performances by real people.

No I would not have decried the introduction of drumsticks and valves as these are still played by humans, but yes on the tuners, tuners are a cheat, it robs one of using their ears to determine intonation.
OG Kush

Orange Park, FL

#213125 Feb 18, 2014
sweets2360 wrote:
<quoted text>
Electronic music will have its place, but a real artist and a real instrument will always have a place in peoples heart and soul. Music comes from the heart and every musician brings it out of his chosen instrument. His, nobody elses. Everybody on the planet can tell the difference between the guitar music of say Eric Clapton and B.B. King. Electronic just cant do that.
Of course you can

you're talking about an individual artists individual style this relates accurately to playing a synthesizer is it does a guitar only with a one major difference in many ways of altering the sound.

With the advent of electronic instruments the world of music is now opened to the nonmusical in a dramatic fashion so much so that individual effort be this Rap people or just the every putz on the street can come up with a magnificent composition and it's only a matter of time.

one only needs to use their imagination and understand how to read electronic manual and start selecting sounds.

The engineers that demonstrate electronic instruments like to Wersi produce entire symphonies by themselves with the instrument.

Of course you get started child out at four years old money to play a violin and become a violin virtuoso but start this child out at four years old on electronic instrument and he will be a light-year ahead and creativity and orchestration.
OG Kush

Orange Park, FL

#213126 Feb 18, 2014
RiversideRedneck wrote:
<quoted text>
None of those people make music or are musical artists.
Just sayin.
Although your opinion is shared by many yes they are considered musical artists they win Grammys and are currently outselling everything.

Yes I deplore rap
But to each his own

The average age in this country is 36.8 that's your demographic.

Personally I prefer artists that a lot of people aren't even familiar with.

ilDivo
Pink Martini
Diana Krall
Manhattan transfer
Tower of power
Charlie Parker
The magnificent Renée Fleming

Many others of quality, I have to admit it's good to see a young man like Michael Buble perform quality material

Tell me when this thread is updated:

Subscribe Now Add to my Tracker

Add your comments below

Characters left: 4000

Please note by submitting this form you acknowledge that you have read the Terms of Service and the comment you are posting is in compliance with such terms. Be polite. Inappropriate posts may be removed by the moderator. Send us your feedback.

Top Stories Discussions

Title Updated Last By Comments
News Roman Catholic church only true church, says Va... (Jul '07) 18 min Rosesz 646,720
Bring back thd human sexuality forum? 23 min xdressgay 4
ye olde village pub (Jun '07) 26 min Ricky F 53,824
The Christian Atheist debate (Jun '15) 34 min Buck Crick 49,026
Prove there's a god. (Mar '08) 1 hr Not Him 971,741
Poll Is homosexuality a sin? (Oct '07) 1 hr Annaleigh 105,636
Play "end of the word" part 2 (Dec '15) 3 hr KellyP in Jersey 2,085
I want to watch my wife flirt and get picked up... (Aug '12) Jun 26 Tboyslick125 151
More from around the web