Atheism requires as much faith as religion?

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Atheism requires as much faith as religion? bearvspuma : The only problem with this rationalization is that ita s assuming all athiests are so because theya re intelligent in the ways of science and reasoning and all people that believe in a form of god are unintelligent.

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Eagle 12

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#212327
Feb 13, 2014
 

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blacklagoon wrote:
<quoted text>Atheism is a REJECTION of Theistic claims. Nowfuckoffyoupatheticloser
Don't be mean Doctor. You are a better man than that.

Atheism is the proud belief in “Nothingism.”

“Life may be sweeter for this”

Since: Nov 08

Fennario

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#212328
Feb 13, 2014
 
Bob of Quantum-Faith wrote:
Not to mention, a new car every year or two-- when many of the parishioners drive 5 year old clunkers and worse. It's disgusting. And it is **not** charity in any shape of the word.
I agree. Just because you're giving money away doesn't make it charity.
Eagle 12

Troy, IL

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#212329
Feb 13, 2014
 

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It aint necessarily so wrote:
<quoted text>
Have you seen the list of deaths inflicted or ordered by Yahweh? Here's part of it:
http://commonsenseatheism.com/...
[1] God drowns the whole earth. In Genesis 7:21-23, God drowns the entire population of the earth: men, women, children, fetuses, and perhaps unicorns. Only a single family survives. In Matthew 24:37-42, gentle Jesus approves of this genocide and plans to repeat it when he returns.
[2] God incinerates 51 men to make a point. In 2 Kings 1:9-10, Elijah gets God to burn 51 men with fire from heaven to prove he is God.
[3] God slaughters all Egyptian firstborn. In Exodus 12:29, God the baby-killer slaughters all Egyptian firstborn children and cattle because their king was stubborn.
[4] God kills 14,000 people for complaining that God keeps killing them. In Numbers 16:41-49, the Israelites complain that God is killing too many of them. So, God sends a plague that kills 14,000 more of them.
[5] God helps Samson kill 30 men because he lost a bet. In Judges 14:11-19, Samson loses a bet for 30 sets of clothes. The spirit of God comes upon him and he kills 30 men to steal their clothes and pay off the debt.
[6] God kills 50,000 people for curiosity. In 1 Samuel 6:19, God kills 50,000 men for peeking into the ark of the covenant.(Newer cosmetic translations count only 70 deaths, but their text notes admit that the best and earliest manuscripts put the number at 50,070.)
[7] 3,000 Israelites killed for inventing a god. In Exodus 32, Moses has climbed Mount Sinai to get the Ten Commandments. The Israelites are bored, so they invent a golden calf god. Moses comes back and God commands him:“Each man strap a sword to his side. Go back and forth through the camp from one end to the other, each killing his brother and friend and neighbor.” About 3,000 people died.
[8] The Amorites destroyed by sword and by God’s rocks. In Joshua 10:10-11, God helps the Israelites slaughter the Amorites by sword, then finishes them off with rocks from the sky.
[9] God burns two cities to death. In Genesis 19:24, God kills everyone in Sodom and Gomorrah with fire from the sky. Then God kills Lot’s wife for looking back at her burning home.
[10] God has 42 children mauled by bears. In 2 Kings 2:23-24, some kids tease the prophet Elisha, and God sends bears to dismember them.
The god of the bible goes on to command:
• KILL anyone who wears mixed fabrics.
• KILL any child that disrespects its parents
• KILL anyone who works on Saturday
• KILL anyone who eats meat AND cheese together
• KILL anyone who swears by god
• KILL any man who goes into the temple after having sex with a woman who is on her •
More?
• "Show No Mercy!" Deut 7:2
• "March to War!" Numbers 32:20
• "Ethnic cleanse!" Deut. 20:15
• "Commit genocide!" Joshua 10:20
• "Enslave!" Lev. 25:44
• "Beat to death!" Ex. 21:20
• "Kill women and chilldren!" Numbers 31:17, 1 Samuel 15:3
• "Kill all prisoners!" Deut 7:2
• "Destroy!" Deut. 7:16
• "Annihilate!" Deut. 17:29
• "Slaughter!" Deut. 13:15, Joshua 8:24
• "Burn!" Deut. 13:15
• "Torture!" Lev. 24:23, Numbers 5:11
• "Massacre!" Numbers 21:2
• "Exterminate!" Deut 2:34, Deut 3:3
• "Crush!" Deut. 33:29
• "Kill!" Joshua 9:24
• "Destroy!" Deut 31:4
• "Smite!" Esther 9:5
• "Slash!" Judges 15:8
• "Burn!" joshua 6:24
• "Kill!" Joshua 10:10
• "Kill!" Judges 11:33
• "Kill!" Deut 9:3
• "Loot!" Deut. 20:10
• "Plunder!" Numbers 31:9, Deut 2:35
• "Rape!" Numbers 31:18, Deut. 21:10, Judges 21:11
• "Pillage!" 1 Samuel 23:5
• "Kill!" Deut 9:3
• "Kill!" Deut 20:15
• "Kill!" Judges 21:11
How different would the universe be under the rule of a psychopath like Hitler?
Have you seen the list of deaths done by your fellow man?

Holy freaking cow Doctor.

“Life may be sweeter for this”

Since: Nov 08

Fennario

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#212330
Feb 13, 2014
 

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Bongo wrote:
If God killed people im sure he had a good reason.

We were told in scripture that the failure of the couple in the garden brought hardship to the animal kingdom too. Its temporary , in terms of eternity, a blip. it.
I think you settle for too little. You should be objecting to such ideas. I understand why you are not free to do so, which is why I blame your ideology and not you.

“Life may be sweeter for this”

Since: Nov 08

Fennario

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#212331
Feb 13, 2014
 
It aint necessarily so wrote:
What makes you think that we aren't concerned about all suffering?
Bongo wrote:
The focus seems to be on constant assailing the Church whose crimes are a mere fraction of needless suffering being perpetrated out there.
That's what we discuss here. You'd 'might be amazed at how little religious issues come up in other areas of my life.

Why doesn't the church deserve the treatment it gets here? Are there any demonstrable benefits from it that we couldn't have without it to offset its crimes?

“The eye has it...”

Since: May 09

Russell's Teapot

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#212332
Feb 13, 2014
 

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Bongo wrote:
Im offering no defense for the catholics but I am suprised at that prejudiced atheist indignation that majors on a few hundred kids violated by a few priests
Don't forget that the problem with sexual abuse and molestation of children - and adults - is just as severe, if not more so in the Protestant faiths too.

Don't forget the Protestants.
Bongo wrote:
yet does not seem to consider millions starving to death and subject to poverty, and drug and alcohol abusing parents, to name just a few maladies. Religion with all its problems is a better way.
I think pretty much all humans are concerned with those problems, and to act as if atheists are only concerned with what happens to children and adults at the hands of the Christian clergy and membership is placing your head in the sand.
Bongo wrote:
Religion with all its problems is a better way.
Really? Do you really think worshiping a deity or deities - because none of the deities worshiped by humans do a thing to alleviate these ills you mention - is a better way?

Do you really think if there were no deity beliefs in the world, the world would be worse?

How have deity beliefs helped? I'm going to point out right now that those deity beliefs haven't helped the clergy and members of Christianity that have decided to abuse their fellow man.

If anything, this bizarre notion of believing that all you need to do is ask for forgiveness from the deity for "sin" does nothing. It quite literally enables a person to act with impunity.

Before you pull the "No True Christian™" fallacy out of your hat, understand that is not an answer, it's a hollow excuse.

“Life may be sweeter for this”

Since: Nov 08

Fennario

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#212333
Feb 13, 2014
 
Zachary Gima wrote:
<quoted text>Believe me, the Red Army provided various assistance and guidance with the liberation of Belgrade and withdrew after the war was over. In 1946, the new constitution of Socialist Federal Republic of Yugoslavia, modeled after the Soviet Union, established six republics, an autonomous province, and an autonomous district that were part of SR Serbia. The federal capital was Belgrade.
The religious demographics of Yugoslavia changed dramatically since World War II. A census taken in right after the war showed that 99% of the population appeared to be deeply involved with their religion and practices. With postwar government programs of modernization and urbanization, the percentage of religious believers took a dramatic plunge. Connections between religious belief and nationality posed a serious threat to the post-war Communist government's policies on national unity and state structure. After the rise of communism, a survey taken in 1964 showed that just over 70% of the total population of Yugoslavia even considered themselves to be religious believers.
The post–World War II Yugoslavia was in many respects a model of how to build a multinational state. The Federation was constructed against a country which had been dominated by the Serbian ruling class; and a war-time division of the country, as Fascist Italy and Nazi Germany split the country apart and endorsed an extreme Catholic Croatian nationalist faction which committed genocide against the Protestant Serbs. A small faction of Bosniak (Muslim) nationalists joined the Axis forces and attacked Serbs while extreme Serb nationalists engaged in attacks on Bosniaks and Croats.
The internal ethnic violence was only ended when the multiethnic Yugoslav Partisans took over the country at the end of the war and banned nationalism (founded on religious identity) from being publicly promoted. Overall relative peace was retained under Tito's rule, though nationalist protests did occur, but these were usually repressed and nationalist leaders were arrested.
In the late 80's, coinciding with the Soviet Union Glasnost, ethnic tensions resurfaced in Yugoslavia as each province made their claim to greater autonomy as religious nationalism was re-introduced with no limitations.
Nice. It's great to have such an erudite contribution in an unfamiliar area. We have an eclectic collection of academics posting here.

Is that you in the photo? Former Bruin and Buckeye here, but not for a long time. I was there in the Johnny Wooden and Woody Hayes days.

“Life may be sweeter for this”

Since: Nov 08

Fennario

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#212334
Feb 13, 2014
 
Tide with Beach wrote:
<quoted text>
I wish I could have seen those two going down... the hill.
New Rule: Instead of the Winter Olympics having both the luge, where people ride down the ice feet first and the skeleton, where people ride down the ice face first, they must be merged into one event called ‘Sledding 69.’- Bill Maher in his ‘New Rules’ segment, January 17, 2014.

“Ungood doubleplus duckspeak.”

Since: Dec 12

Earth.

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#212335
Feb 13, 2014
 
It aint necessarily so wrote:
<quoted text>There is no reason to have feelings for a church - just its victims, which includes its adherents. If some people are feeling a bit beleaguered defending the church, that is by choice. We expect them to consider our arguments, reconsider their own choices, and make rational and compassionate ones in place of simply accepting ideas on faith. If they can't or won't do so, then they'll just have to accept the scorn of those of us who have.

I do empathize with them. They probably got to where they are with no malice, and in obedience to people and ideas that they trusted. But they'll have to take that up with those people. We have to concern ourselves with societal health and the victims of the church, not the plight of people caught in the crossfire of a transforming cultural paradigm, who, as I alluded, are also its victims - albeit willing ones.
I see the church as the body of believers and although some may be innocent victims, like the children, I hold the majority accountable for their actions and their defence of such actions.

“Don't be so dichotomous.”

Since: Jan 11

Embrace the grey.

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#212336
Feb 13, 2014
 
Eagle 12 wrote:
Have you seen the list of deaths done by your fellow man?
Holy freaking cow Doctor.
If your deity has the power to shape the universe according to its will, then the universe is the result of its will, and nothing less. An all powerful deity is necessarily responsible for all that transpires within its realm of influence.

Is your deity all powerful, or just kinda powerful?

“Life may be sweeter for this”

Since: Nov 08

Fennario

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#212337
Feb 13, 2014
 
Tide with Beach wrote:
<quoted text>
I know a Richard Richardson, but he goes by Penis.
This was in my email this morning. They said she was clergy, but I'm skeptical

"Dick Will Make You Slap Someone"
http://www.youtube.com/watch...

Check out her other YouTubes in the adjacent column.

“Ungood doubleplus duckspeak.”

Since: Dec 12

Earth.

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#212338
Feb 13, 2014
 
Bob of Quantum-Faith wrote:
<quoted text>It was **thousands** of kids, over many generations-- and it appears, the abuse is ongoing even today--

-- unchecked by this magical "god" they claim is so ...

.... "caring"

These abused kids?

Is 100% proof that there are **no** gods who have the power to affect human behavior.

None.
Agreed.

“Life may be sweeter for this”

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Fennario

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#212339
Feb 13, 2014
 
Darwins Stepchild wrote:
I was astounded to see one of the creationists say that if the Bible were to say "2 + 2 = 5", he would believe it and make his worldview conform to it.
I would hate to see his checkbook..
I saw that guy, too.

He reminded me of Craig, who said this:

"...And my view here is, that the way in which I know Christianity is true is first and foremost on the basis of the witness of the Holy Spirit. In my heart. And that this gives me a self-authenticating means of knowing that Christianity is true wholly apart from the evidence. And therefore, if in some historically contingent circumstances, the evidence that I have available to me should turn against Christianity, I don't think that that contraverts the witness of the Holy Spirit. In such a situation, I should regard that as simply a result of the contingent circumstances that I'm in, and that if I were to pursue this with due diligence and with time, I would discover that the evidence, if in fact I could get the correct picture, would support exactly what the witness of the Holy Spirit tells me. So I think that's very important to get the relationship between faith and reason right..." . William Lane Craig

That's an incredible confession from a man who is considered a Christian intellectual and philosopher.
Darwins Stepchild wrote:
And along with Ken Ham's statements (as well as other creationists) that no amount of real world evidence would ever convince them shows how intellectually bankrupt religious fundamentalism is.
For those who missed it, in the recent Ham-on-Nye debate, when asked what could change their minds, Nye responded with "evidence." Ken Ham's response was, "Well, I'm a Christian."

“Don't be so dichotomous.”

Since: Jan 11

Embrace the grey.

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#212340
Feb 13, 2014
 

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It aint necessarily so wrote:
This was in my email this morning. They said she was clergy, but I'm skeptical
"Dick Will Make You Slap Someone"
http://www.youtube.com/watch...
Check out her other YouTubes in the adjacent column.
LOL

That's awesome.
Chris Clearwater

Fort Lauderdale, FL

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#212341
Feb 13, 2014
 

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blacklagoon wrote:
<quoted text>Atheism is a REJECTION of Theistic claims. Nowfuckoffyoupatheticloser
Just love these higher ethics on display. How deep is your love? Cause we are living on a world of fools breaking us down. La la la la la la la la la.

“Turning coffee into theorems”

Since: Dec 06

Trapped inside a Klein Bottle

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#212342
Feb 13, 2014
 
Bongo wrote:
<quoted text> Its not approved of by God. Its not in the name of religion but it is perpetrated by wrong doers.......... 45"But if that slave says in his heart,'My master will be a long time in coming,' and begins to beat the slaves, both men and women, and to eat and drink and get drunk; 46the master of that slave will come on a day when he does not expect him and at an hour he does not know, and will cut him in pieces, and assign him a place with the unbelievers.…
It is amazing how "what is approved by God" always matches what is approved of by the believer himself.

Even in your case.

“Turning coffee into theorems”

Since: Dec 06

Trapped inside a Klein Bottle

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#212343
Feb 13, 2014
 
It aint necessarily so wrote:
<quoted text>
I saw that guy, too.
He reminded me of Craig, who said this:
"...And my view here is, that the way in which I know Christianity is true is first and foremost on the basis of the witness of the Holy Spirit. In my heart. And that this gives me a self-authenticating means of knowing that Christianity is true wholly apart from the evidence. And therefore, if in some historically contingent circumstances, the evidence that I have available to me should turn against Christianity, I don't think that that contraverts the witness of the Holy Spirit. In such a situation, I should regard that as simply a result of the contingent circumstances that I'm in, and that if I were to pursue this with due diligence and with time, I would discover that the evidence, if in fact I could get the correct picture, would support exactly what the witness of the Holy Spirit tells me. So I think that's very important to get the relationship between faith and reason right..." . William Lane Craig
That's an incredible confession from a man who is considered a Christian intellectual and philosopher.
<quoted text>
For those who missed it, in the recent Ham-on-Nye debate, when asked what could change their minds, Nye responded with "evidence." Ken Ham's response was, "Well, I'm a Christian."
Ham's response said essentially, "Nothing could change my mind".

Re: Craig. When I was on my long slide leading out of religion, I finally came to the realization that this "Holy Ghost" was nothing more than wishful thinking on my part. I wanted guidance from God, and misinterpreted my self-provided guidance as coming from God.

What finally opened my "eyes" was that I prayed and prayed for guidance concerning the doubts I had...and got no response.
Richardfs

Parramatta, Australia

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#212344
Feb 13, 2014
 
Buck Crick wrote:
<quoted text>
Hitler has never been kicked out of the Moose Lodge, either.
So Hitler is a moose. He has antlers.
Great reasoning again, Chris Stalin.
I don't know your income status, but you could make good money as a consultant to people who want to sound stupid.
Oh, by the way. Europe doesn't piss without asking our permission.
Richardfs wrote:
<quoted text>
Based on your logic (and typing than made me LOL) he was an islamic communist!!
Buck Crick wrote:
<quoted text>
No. My logic only says that his Christian upbringing and his name on a membership role does not make him anything.
It's solid logic. Especially coupled with the documentation proving he hated christianity and had plans in place to eradicate it from Germany.
You might want to check your own typing, Richard fuckstick.
Richardfs wrote:
<quoted text>
So he wasn't a NAZI.
ps. We all make typos.
Buck Crick wrote:
<quoted text>
You seem confused.
You must have been in jail too long as somebody's bitch because you are confused by your own 'logic'.

It is quit simple with what you have posted either:-

1. Hitler was not a christian nor a NAZI
or
2. Hitler was a christian and a NAZI

I think I will go with number '2'.
Richardfs

Parramatta, Australia

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#212345
Feb 13, 2014
 

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It aint necessarily so wrote:
<quoted text>
Have you seen the list of deaths inflicted or ordered by Yahweh? Here's part of it:
http://commonsenseatheism.com/...
[1] God drowns the whole earth. In Genesis 7:21-23, God drowns the entire population of the earth: men, women, children, fetuses, and perhaps unicorns. Only a single family survives. In Matthew 24:37-42, gentle Jesus approves of this genocide and plans to repeat it when he returns.
[2] God incinerates 51 men to make a point. In 2 Kings 1:9-10, Elijah gets God to burn 51 men with fire from heaven to prove he is God.
[3] God slaughters all Egyptian firstborn. In Exodus 12:29, God the baby-killer slaughters all Egyptian firstborn children and cattle because their king was stubborn.
[4] God kills 14,000 people for complaining that God keeps killing them. In Numbers 16:41-49, the Israelites complain that God is killing too many of them. So, God sends a plague that kills 14,000 more of them.
[5] God helps Samson kill 30 men because he lost a bet. In Judges 14:11-19, Samson loses a bet for 30 sets of clothes. The spirit of God comes upon him and he kills 30 men to steal their clothes and pay off the debt.
[6] God kills 50,000 people for curiosity. In 1 Samuel 6:19, God kills 50,000 men for peeking into the ark of the covenant.(Newer cosmetic translations count only 70 deaths, but their text notes admit that the best and earliest manuscripts put the number at 50,070.)
[7] 3,000 Israelites killed for inventing a god. In Exodus 32, Moses has climbed Mount Sinai to get the Ten Commandments. The Israelites are bored, so they invent a golden calf god. Moses comes back and God commands him:“Each man strap a sword to his side. Go back and forth through the camp from one end to the other, each killing his brother and friend and neighbor.” About 3,000 people died.
[8] The Amorites destroyed by sword and by God’s rocks. In Joshua 10:10-11, God helps the Israelites slaughter the Amorites by sword, then finishes them off with rocks from the sky.
[9] God burns two cities to death. In Genesis 19:24, God kills everyone in Sodom and Gomorrah with fire from the sky. Then God kills Lot’s wife for looking back at her burning home.
[10] God has 42 children mauled by bears. In 2 Kings 2:23-24, some kids tease the prophet Elisha, and God sends bears to dismember them.
The god of the bible goes on to command:
• KILL anyone who wears mixed fabrics.
• KILL any child that disrespects its parents
• KILL anyone who works on Saturday
• KILL anyone who eats meat AND cheese together
• KILL anyone who swears by god
• KILL any man who goes into the temple after having sex with a woman who is on her •
More?
• "Show No Mercy!" Deut 7:2
• "March to War!" Numbers 32:20
• "Ethnic cleanse!" Deut. 20:15
• "Commit genocide!" Joshua 10:20
• "Enslave!" Lev. 25:44
• "Beat to death!" Ex. 21:20
• "Kill women and chilldren!" Numbers 31:17, 1 Samuel 15:3
• "Kill all prisoners!" Deut 7:2
• "Destroy!" Deut. 7:16
• "Annihilate!" Deut. 17:29
• "Slaughter!" Deut. 13:15, Joshua 8:24
• "Burn!" Deut. 13:15
• "Torture!" Lev. 24:23, Numbers 5:11
• "Massacre!" Numbers 21:2
• "Exterminate!" Deut 2:34, Deut 3:3
• "Crush!" Deut. 33:29
• "Kill!" Joshua 9:24
• "Destroy!" Deut 31:4
• "Smite!" Esther 9:5
• "Slash!" Judges 15:8
• "Burn!" joshua 6:24
• "Kill!" Joshua 10:10
• "Kill!" Judges 11:33
• "Kill!" Deut 9:3
• "Loot!" Deut. 20:10
• "Plunder!" Numbers 31:9, Deut 2:35
• "Rape!" Numbers 31:18, Deut. 21:10, Judges 21:11
• "Pillage!" 1 Samuel 23:5
• "Kill!" Deut 9:3
• "Kill!" Deut 20:15
• "Kill!" Judges 21:11
How different would the universe be under the rule of a psychopath like Hitler?
Question: why is a benevolent god killing anybody in the first place and why does he have a higher body count than the so called devil?
blacklagoon

Brookline, MA

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#212346
Feb 13, 2014
 

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Bongo wrote:
<quoted text> Wheres your ballbag blagoon? Just say it, your belief is that there is no God.
In order for me to say I believe there is no God, I would need some kind of definition as to what a God is. I would need some kind of evidence that a being as described by Theists actually exists. So far the evidence for God is the same as that for werewolves. When a Theist, such as you, make an assertion that God exists and manifests himself in the naturalistic realm, I reject that claim based on the total lack of conclusive, demonstrable, verifiable, scientifically grounded evidence. Since I have no idea what it is I'm supposed to not believe in, the only rational response would be, I reject theistic claims. Got it skippy?

Now tell me why you need to pray for wisdom and opportunity, don't you have the stones to achieve these things without someone holding your little hand? Talk about where's yer ballbag!!!!

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