Atheism requires as much faith as rel...

Atheism requires as much faith as religion?

There are 258484 comments on the Webbunny tumblelog story from Jul 18, 2009, titled Atheism requires as much faith as religion?. In it, Webbunny tumblelog reports that:

Atheism requires as much faith as religion? bearvspuma : The only problem with this rationalization is that ita s assuming all athiests are so because theya re intelligent in the ways of science and reasoning and all people that believe in a form of god are unintelligent.

Join the discussion below, or Read more at Webbunny tumblelog.

“Turning coffee into theorems”

Since: Dec 06

Trapped inside a Klein Bottle

#212529 Feb 14, 2014
New Age Spiritual Leader wrote:
<quoted text>
That is if you believe that "numbers rule the world" theory.
I will agree that math is far reaching into pretty much everything, but so do fractals.
Are you familiar with numerology?
I can say that I haven't met many so-called "Christians" who are familiar with it, and I guess I could say the same with non-religious/non-believer type folks as well.3326
BTW...numerology has nothing whatsoever to do with math. And I should know.

Numerology is just woo of the same sort as astrology and tarot cards.

“Turning coffee into theorems”

Since: Dec 06

Trapped inside a Klein Bottle

#212531 Feb 14, 2014
It aint necessarily so wrote:
<quoted text>
OK.
I thought I heard them say that it was David that was the first historical figure. You say it was Solomon. Of course, Solomon was said to be David's son, so that sets the date for bible history to begin in the tenth century BCE either way.
Solomon was kinda sorta historical. Not any direct references from outside the Bible, IIRC, but there are archeological finds that match up with the stories of Solomon.

It has been a while since I watched it, and you may be right, but as I recall it there are no references or archeological evidence of David. The earliest evidence in archeology is mention of the House of David some centuries after David is supposed to have lived.

I may have to sit down and watch the show again.

You might notice that not one theist has commented on it, pretty clearly indicating none of them watched it.

“LOL Really?”

Since: Oct 10

Location hidden

#212532 Feb 14, 2014
Eagle 12 wrote:
<quoted text>
Not a week goes by that our resident Atheist don’t post something about Hitler. At least a dozen times a week. Hitler is dead. He met his demise as his kingdom fell around him. Thousands of our military men and women lost their life in Europe. Most of them were Judeo/Christians as evidence of their grave memorials.
And the man who defeated Hitler as leader of the Allied forces was a Christian. Not a perfect man. As no man has been perfect. But he was a brilliant General that brought a crushing defeat to the Nazi’s.
With Eisenhower’s leadership the Nazi’s were defeated. He was a Christian and the 34 president of the United States. In fact I don’t believe America has ever had a President that didn’t believe in God.


http://www.youtube.com/watch...

“ad victoriam”

Since: Dec 10

arte et marte

#212533 Feb 14, 2014
Darwins Stepchild wrote:
<quoted text>
Solomon was kinda sorta historical. Not any direct references from outside the Bible, IIRC, but there are archeological finds that match up with the stories of Solomon.
It has been a while since I watched it, and you may be right, but as I recall it there are no references or archeological evidence of David. The earliest evidence in archeology is mention of the House of David some centuries after David is supposed to have lived.
I may have to sit down and watch the show again.
You might notice that not one theist has commented on it, pretty clearly indicating none of them watched it.
http://www.sciencedaily.com/releases/2013/07/...

“Life may be sweeter for this”

Since: Nov 08

Fennario

#212534 Feb 14, 2014
Bongo wrote:
<quoted text> 1) I couldn't know for sure but I think, Yes. 2) Many people perhaps most must think it was No, Why else would they keep asking repeatedly and suffer deep self loathing,fear and condemnation.? The Jews by wich we have the gospel used to have a method of sinning and then killing an animal. God had enough of that tom foolery and gave his son to do it once and for all. Thanks to their rejection of messiah. Its a heart thing, not a mechanical mind thing. True story, I knew a lawyer fresh out of law school who was raised catholic. He somehow adopted, seemingly with clear conscience , the idea that he could do wrong and on sunday just confess and ask and get forgiveness. I was astonished at how wrong that sounded and that was before I was a Christian. I think a person who continues sin as a "matter of course" will eventually become apostate so thay can stop the mental torture of guilt shame and condemnation.
You think that somebody prayed for forgiveness and was told "No"? Why? Have you or anyone you know ever reported being refused forgiveness? I have never heard of such a thing. Sure, t here are people that go on feeling guilt or remorse, but that isn't the same as not being forgiven. That's not forgiving yourself.

My experience both directly and indirectly is that forgiveness is a sure thing if you want it and as for it, at least in the sense that you are never told "No," which is why in the past I have called it forgiveness on demand, and probably why Scaritual called it "easy forgiveness.".

Incidentally, did you see this answer to your question on formatting? Look at the correction two posts later before reading the main response:
http://www.topix.com/forum/religion/atheism/T...

“ad victoriam”

Since: Dec 10

arte et marte

#212535 Feb 14, 2014
EXPERT wrote:
<quoted text>
I bet that hurt...
You will find we are in search of the truth and follow evidence where ever it leads.
It doesn't effect me at all, as I have no horse in this race. But if anything it's a little bit exciting to find things like this, and when we do it puts an end to story and the historical truth becomes known. If this is Davids palace , then my money is going on that we will find King David the man, though legendary no more a man than other legendary men. Certainly no more legendary than Alexander and maybe even less so in reality.

Since: Dec 12

Location hidden

#212536 Feb 14, 2014
EXPERT wrote:
<quoted text>Try to pull up your skirt and fight your own battle, cowards.
Tell me everything you know about skirts.

“ad victoriam”

Since: Dec 10

arte et marte

#212539 Feb 14, 2014
EXPERT wrote:
<quoted text>
You have no interest in the truth, as I have exposed you before.
Case in point,
Do you agree with the current scientific position that the Universe had a beginning?
Do you accept the laws of physics?
I would like to ask you a few questions about Jupiter, Mars and the Earth.
You've exposed nothing. My thoughts as far as the universe is concerned are complicated.
Fat too much to write here and now.
I agree the evidence is there for the big bang as an event, whether this was the beginning or this is the only universe, I'm not convinced. The laws of physics are observations , another words we do not see them change , so my agreement is that they are axioms we found through science and measure. You can ask what ever you want about planets or whatever
I'm not going to pretend I know everything though, or that my interpretation is the only explanation or the correct one. But most of my answers will be the same as all of modern science say's it is.

“LOL Really?”

Since: Oct 10

Location hidden

#212540 Feb 14, 2014
EXPERT wrote:
<quoted text>
Bend over...
Daddy issues?

Would you like to talk about it?

Since: Dec 12

Location hidden

#212541 Feb 14, 2014
EXPERT wrote:
<quoted text>Bend over...
So, nothing.

Tell us everything you know about cowards, I bet you might know something on that topic.

Am yet to see you being any kind of "expert", even your perversion looks copied from many.

“Life may be sweeter for this”

Since: Nov 08

Fennario

#212542 Feb 14, 2014
Divinity Surgeon wrote:
I was reading these earlier and have read a few articles on Citizens just up and leaving the christian nation of America.
Do you think there's some validity to this?
I have a few mates from the States who have left and live in a place filled with international tourists and new arrivals alike but like to get different opinions from those still in the US.
http://www.activistpost.com/2013/02/2014-too-...
http://www.zerohedge.com/news/2014-02-09/amer...
From your first link:

"Consider a series of Zogby International polls conducted between 2005 to 2007. The polls focused on households, not individuals, and excluded households in which any member went abroad as a part of work for the government or a private company. Zogby found that “1.6 million U.S. households had already determined to relocate abroad; an additional 1.8 million households were seriously considering such a move, while 7.7 million more were 'somewhat seriously' contemplating it.” Zogby concluded,“If the data collected in the seven polls...are fairly representative of the current decade, then, by a modest estimate, at least 3 million U.S. citizens a year are venturing abroad." The polls were pre-Obama. If the post-Obama rate of household relocation tracks the Taxpatriate List rate, then household relocation increased more than eight-fold from 2008 to 2011. No one knows the real numbers but the “expat problem” is now too large to ignore."

You probably already know that my wife and I are among that number.

What's interesting is that the numbers include large numbers of both conservatives as liberals. I believe that Bongo and Buck have expressed interest in expatriating if feasible, but I may be mistaken, and will let them speak for themselves.

I'm part of the wave that was disgusted by the antics of the Bush administration, as were most or all of the expats I came to know when we arrived here in Mexico in mid-2009. As your link suggests, there has been a second wave of disgruntled citizens in the wake of Obama's election. This may be the only common ground these polar opposites share.

I don't suppose it's for everybody. And for many, it's not a realistic option even if they would like to exercise it, especially if the need to work or to be with children or parents prevent you.

But most of the people around me agree with us that it has been a good move. We enjoy better weather, a better economy (for spending, not for earning), and a slower paced life that combines the best of the past with the best of the present. That is, we have access to modern technology like good medical care, good public transportation, solar power for our homes, reliable public utilities, the Internet, ebooks, and satellite TV.

But we also have a slower, friendlier and more old-fashioned lifestyle with people mostly on foot and greeting one another as they pass, small businesses selling locally grown or manufactured products, plenty of small, outdoor bistros, and a colorful, vibrant community where horses are often used as transportation, and extended families come outside most evenings -nothing like the life we left.

What I like a lot is being part of a culture in ascension. These people are where mine were a century ago, when it was first the case that you could expect your children to be better educated than you, wealthier, more worldly, and with more opportunity. That's the world I was born into as well. Like that one, this is a world of hope and optimism.

The one we left is now one of frustration and pessimism - at least in the people of my generation - younger Americans may be more optimistic - and the difference is palpable.

“Turning coffee into theorems”

Since: Dec 06

Trapped inside a Klein Bottle

#212543 Feb 14, 2014
Aura Mytha wrote:
That is newer than the information I had available.

Thanx.

“Turning coffee into theorems”

Since: Dec 06

Trapped inside a Klein Bottle

#212544 Feb 14, 2014
Aura Mytha wrote:
<quoted text>
You will find we are in search of the truth and follow evidence where ever it leads.
It doesn't effect me at all, as I have no horse in this race. But if anything it's a little bit exciting to find things like this, and when we do it puts an end to story and the historical truth becomes known. If this is Davids palace , then my money is going on that we will find King David the man, though legendary no more a man than other legendary men. Certainly no more legendary than Alexander and maybe even less so in reality.
Just to point out, even throwing out the legends around Alexander, such as the Gordian Knot, he still made a huge splash.

“ad victoriam”

Since: Dec 10

arte et marte

#212545 Feb 14, 2014
Darwins Stepchild wrote:
<quoted text>
That is newer than the information I had available.
Thanx.
There still isn't any evidence that proves it's Davids, that may surface.
The only thing for sure is it's the right time frame and the largest palace in the period.
It may turn out to be something else altogether, but it's the biggest contender to be Davids ever found.

“Life may be sweeter for this”

Since: Nov 08

Fennario

#212546 Feb 14, 2014
Divinity Surgeon wrote:
I was reading these earlier and have read a few articles on Citizens just up and leaving the christian nation of America. Do you think there's some validity to this? I have a few mates from the States who have left and live in a place filled with international tourists and new arrivals alike but like to get different opinions from those still in the US.
http://www.activistpost.com/2013/02/2014-too-...
http://www.zerohedge.com/news/2014-02-09/amer...
I can attest to the validity of that. I'm part of it.

From your first link:

"Consider a series of Zogby International polls conducted between 2005 to 2007. The polls focused on households, not individuals, and excluded households in which any member went abroad as a part of work for the government or a private company. Zogby found that “1.6 million U.S. households had already determined to relocate abroad; an additional 1.8 million households were seriously considering such a move, while 7.7 million more were 'somewhat seriously' contemplating it.” Zogby concluded,“If the data collected in the seven polls...are fairly representative of the current decade, then, by a modest estimate, at least 3 million U.S. citizens a year are venturing abroad." The polls were pre-Obama. If the post-Obama rate of household relocation tracks the Taxpatriate List rate, then household relocation increased more than eight-fold from 2008 to 2011. No one knows the real numbers but the “expat problem” is now too large to ignore."

You probably already know that my wife and I are among that number.

What's interesting is that the numbers include large numbers of both conservatives as liberals. I believe that Bongo and Buck have expressed interest in expatriating if feasible, but I may be mistaken, and will let them speak for themselves.

I'm part of the wave that was disgusted by the antics of the Bush administration, as were most or all of the expats I came to know when we arrived here in Mexico in mid-2009. As your link suggests, there has been a second wave of disgruntled citizens in the wake of Obama's election. This may be the only common ground these polar opposites share.

It's not for everybody. And for many, it's not a realistic option even if they would have liked to have exercised it, especially if the need to work or to be with children or parents prevent you.

But most of the people around me agree with us that it has been a good move. We enjoy better weather, a better economy (for spending, not for earning), and a slower paced life that combines the best of the past with the best of the present. That is, we have access to modern technology like good medical care, good public transportation, solar power for our homes, reliable public utilities, the Internet, ebooks, and satellite TV.

But we also have a slower, friendlier and more old-fashioned lifestyle with people mostly on foot and greeting one another as they pass, small businesses selling locally grown or manufactured products, plenty of small, outdoor bistros, and a colorful, vibrant community where horses are often used as transportation, and extended families come outside most evenings -nothing like the life we left.

What I like a lot is being part of a culture in ascension. These people are where mine were a century ago, when it was first the case that you could expect your children to be better educated than you, wealthier, more worldly, and with more opportunity. That's the world I was born into as well. Like that one, this is a world of hope and optimism.

The one we left is now one of frustration and pessimism - at least in the people of my generation (younger Americans may be more optimistic). The difference is palpable. Even our families have finally seen the wisdom of our move and have congratulated us on it. My wife's father thanked me recently for it. That's major.

Since: Dec 12

Location hidden

#212547 Feb 15, 2014
It aint necessarily so wrote:
I can attest to the validity of that. I'm part of it.

From your first link:

"Consider a series of Zogby International polls conducted between 2005 to 2007. The polls focused on households, not individuals, and excluded households in which any member went abroad as a part of work for the government or a private company. Zogby found that “1.6 million U.S. households had already determined to relocate abroad; an additional 1.8 million households were seriously considering such a move, while 7.7 million more were 'somewhat seriously' contemplating it.” Zogby concluded,“If the data collected in the seven polls...are fairly representative of the current decade, then, by a modest estimate, at least 3 million U.S. citizens a year are venturing abroad." The polls were pre-Obama. If the post-Obama rate of household relocation tracks the Taxpatriate List rate, then household relocation increased more than eight-fold from 2008 to 2011. No one knows the real numbers but the “expat problem” is now too large to ignore."

You probably already know that my wife and I are among that number.

What's interesting is that the numbers include large numbers of both conservatives as liberals. I believe that Bongo and Buck have expressed interest in expatriating if feasible, but I may be mistaken, and will let them speak for themselves.

I'm part of the wave that was disgusted by the antics of the Bush administration, as were most or all of the expats I came to know when we arrived here in Mexico in mid-2009. As your link suggests, there has been a second wave of disgruntled citizens in the wake of Obama's election. This may be the only common ground these polar opposites share.

It's not for everybody. And for many, it's not a realistic option even if they would have liked to have exercised it, especially if the need to work or to be with children or parents prevent you.

But most of the people around me agree with us that it has been a good move. We enjoy better weather, a better economy (for spending, not for earning), and a slower paced life that combines the best of the past with the best of the present. That is, we have access to modern technology like good medical care, good public transportation, solar power for our homes, reliable public utilities, the Internet, ebooks, and satellite TV.

But we also have a slower, friendlier and more old-fashioned lifestyle with people mostly on foot and greeting one another as they pass, small businesses selling locally grown or manufactured products, plenty of small, outdoor bistros, and a colorful, vibrant community where horses are often used as transportation, and extended families come outside most evenings -nothing like the life we left.

What I like a lot is being part of a culture in ascension. These people are where mine were a century ago, when it was first the case that you could expect your children to be better educated than you, wealthier, more worldly, and with more opportunity. That's the world I was born into as well. Like that one, this is a world of hope and optimism.

The one we left is now one of frustration and pessimism - at least in the people of my generation (younger Americans may be more optimistic). The difference is palpable. Even our families have finally seen the wisdom of our move and have congratulated us on it. My wife's father thanked me recently for it. That's major.
That's great, thank you Teddy.

“Life may be sweeter for this”

Since: Nov 08

Fennario

#212551 Feb 15, 2014
Darwins Stepchild wrote:
Camels were not native to Palestine. They were imported. The oldest known archeological evidence of camels in Palestine postdates their mention in the Bible...assuming the dates given in the Bible. This is an indication that the books, or at least the passages about camels, were written much later than they claim. Like you, the writers would just assume..."Oh, the camels have always been here."
According to the NOVA special you linked us to, the Torah was cobbled during the Babylonian captivity in the early 6th century BCE by the P writers, who constructed it using older writings of the J, E, and D writers, the earliest of which (J) date back to the 9th or 10th centuries BCE. This material, like the historicity of the patriarchs material, was all new to me. It's nice to get a basic foundation in these matters without having to invest a lot of effort reading what to me would be tedious and boring books, which may be why I've largely avoided investigating the topic.

So thanks again for that. And for the Questioning Darwin thing. I didn't learn much there of a factual nature, as I was already familiar with the details of Darwin's professional and personal life, and with the Creationist's reaction to it - but it did prompt some new insights, and gave me a greater appreciation for what a great man Darwin was. This quote struck me:

"Any animal whatever, endowed with well-marked social instincts, would inevitably acquire a moral sense or conscience, as soon as its intellectual powers had become as well developed ... as in man." - Charles Darwin

That's an amazing insight given how new the ideas necessary to arrive at that conclusion were when Darwin wrote that.

Now I'm wading through the AIB Atheist in the Bible Belt YouTube.

“LOL Really?”

Since: Oct 10

Location hidden

#212552 Feb 15, 2014
EXPERT wrote:
<quoted text>
Projection
Sorry big boi. There's no money shot here.

Aim at your chin as usual.

Since: Dec 12

Location hidden

#212553 Feb 15, 2014
EXPERT wrote:
<quoted text>Projection
Polly want a cracker?

LOL

“Life may be sweeter for this”

Since: Nov 08

Fennario

#212554 Feb 15, 2014

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