Atheism requires as much faith as rel...

Atheism requires as much faith as religion?

There are 255511 comments on the Webbunny tumblelog story from Jul 18, 2009, titled Atheism requires as much faith as religion?. In it, Webbunny tumblelog reports that:

Atheism requires as much faith as religion? bearvspuma : The only problem with this rationalization is that ita s assuming all athiests are so because theya re intelligent in the ways of science and reasoning and all people that believe in a form of god are unintelligent.

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Miller Place, NY

#212317 Feb 13, 2014
blacklagoon wrote:
<quoted text>I wonder what God could have disapproved of fetuses, little babies and innocent children?
I have given no "stats" and buttcrack is the last person I would check with on anything. Why would someone check with anyone who is obviously criminally insane?
Its no different then your disapproval of vermin or caterpillers and their fetuses. You just posted 5 dubious stats. Buck has been re habilitated and if he gets outta line ill pummel him into bolivian.

“Turning coffee into theorems”

Since: Dec 06

Trapped inside a Klein Bottle

#212318 Feb 13, 2014
It aint necessarily so wrote:
<quoted text>
I saw the image of that beautiful creature dead on the ground and refused to watch that story.
And I'm sorry to read such a comment from you. Why did the human herd need trimming?
But I know why you post such things. I saw the first half hour of the recent Darwin special on HBO this morning, and saw an orca flinging a seal through the air while they were discussing things Darwin saw on his voyages.and how they made him question the idea of our world being the creation of a loving god.
Then we see Ken Ham saying that if Darwin had learned Christian theology properly, he would have understood that that was his god's reaction to the disobedience of a couple of undisciplined young people subjected to temptation.
Then they switch to somebody named Rose Rose (seriously) who can only say that her god is mysterious, and all of that suffering and misery must be some form of godly love that she cannot fathom.
These are the things that frustrate me about religion, and why I want our world to be rid of it.
I was astounded to see one of the creationists say that if the Bible were to say "2 + 2 = 5", he would believe it and make his worldview conform to it.

I would hate to see his checkbook.

And along with Ken Ham's statements (as well as other creationists) that no amount of real world evidence would ever convince them shows how intellectually bankrupt religious fundamentalism is.

“Life may be sweeter for this”

Since: Nov 08


#212319 Feb 13, 2014
Bongo wrote:
. As Ians would say, youre no more than a blade of grass or a shrimp.
Would I say that? I did say something similar to the shrimp thing once, but you may have misunderstood me. I was referring to embryos.

Do you know the reductionist fallacy? It's the same one that says that the works of Shakespeare are nothing but letters, spaces and punctuation. On the molecular level, we're no more than grass and shrimp. But that's not the level of experience, at which the differences become evident.

“Resources For The Future”

Since: Feb 14

Los Angeles, CA

#212320 Feb 13, 2014
Some say if you think you need a supernatural explanation for a predictive future, then it needn't to be a god.

Miller Place, NY

#212321 Feb 13, 2014
Darwins Stepchild wrote:
<quoted text>
Yes, "in the name of religion". That is not a prevarication.
For example, the abuse of young women by Catholic nuns in Ireland, and the systemic abuse of orphans by a Catholic orphanage in Australia. Both of these cases lasted decades and have only recently been revealed.
These are only two examples. There are far far more than just these, and in far more branches of Christianity than just Catholics. And if one includes all other religions, then the abuse in the name of religion skyrockets.
But you would rather wear blinders than confront the truth.
Its not approved of by God. Its not in the name of religion but it is perpetrated by wrong doers.......... 45"But if that slave says in his heart,'My master will be a long time in coming,' and begins to beat the slaves, both men and women, and to eat and drink and get drunk; 46the master of that slave will come on a day when he does not expect him and at an hour he does not know, and will cut him in pieces, and assign him a place with the unbelievers.…

Boston, MA

#212322 Feb 13, 2014
Bongo wrote:
<quoted text> Its no different then your disapproval of vermin or caterpillers and their fetuses. You just posted 5 dubious stats. Buck has been re habilitated and if he gets outta line ill pummel him into bolivian.
Haha ha ha , you keep digging the hole deeper and deeper.....God puts vermin and caterpiller's on the same level as human fetuses, babies, and innocent children. I alway knew this myth you believed in was evil, but this just confirms just how thoughtless and capricious it really is.

Caterpillers do not reproduce using a fetus, are you really that scientifically ignorant?

What is "bolivian?"

I posted NO stats, I submitted information on your Gods genocidal character via your holy book. Is the information that is contained in your holy book dubious?

“Life may be sweeter for this”

Since: Nov 08


#212323 Feb 13, 2014
Bongo wrote:
In the name of religion? Thou mewling prevaricator .
How about a near synonym for mewl that rhymes with it: pule - plaintive an infant working up to a full bawl.

Miller Place, NY

#212324 Feb 13, 2014
River Tam wrote:
<quoted text>
Speaking of abilities: It appears that Alanis Morissette has won gold in the women's downhill race in Sochi.
oooh RT, good morning little school girl
Eagle 12

Edwardsville, IL

#212325 Feb 13, 2014
blacklagoon wrote:
<quoted text>Ok, point by point:
1.) Man's inhumanity towards man is indeed horrific, and it occurs for many reasons, but you can't avoid the fact that is some, not all cases, religion was the cause, as in the crusades people roamed for 40 years. Conclusion.........The exodus never happened, just another fictitious story in your holy book.
“Man's inhumanity towards man is indeed horrific”

Thank you my good Doctor for speaking the truth. You Sir are a man of means. Meaning you have probably traveled throughout the world. Most high rise hotels, buildings you have been in have a fire escapes.

Often times it’s printed on a map on the wall of the building in various locations. Chances are most people including you don’t bother to count the doors from where you are staying to the fire escape.

Why is that Doctor? The answer is simple. You don’t believe there’s going to be a fire. But the fact remains you have a way to escape if you so choose. That plan was placed in the design by the building designers.

In Noah’s day those who believed were saved. Because they knew and believed in the escape plan. The non-believers drowned because of their unbelief. They could have escaped but they didn’t believe.

On the other point you make about Moses laying waste to a entire city. I must assume you are talking about the Passover? Those who had the blood of the lamb upon their doorpost were saved. As in Noah’s flood, God gave the believers a way to escape.

Point #3 There’s evidence that Hebrews were held as slaves. You just choose to ignore the evidence.

On the issue of Hitler.

Only a fool would believe Hitler was a Christian. Next time you need life saving surgery. Go find an Actor that played the part of a MD on TV.

Playing the part and actually being a real Doctor is not the same. The same could go for lawyer. Next time you need a lawyer just find a Actor that played a lawyer. Reality versus fiction.

“Life may be sweeter for this”

Since: Nov 08


#212326 Feb 13, 2014
Bongo wrote:
In Mexico you disappear in a barrel of acid.
Oh. I've lived here continuously for almost five years now, with no disappearances. I'll keep my eye peeled for that.

I just read about this:

"Mass Grave, 1,000 Bodies, Found On College Campus (Video)"

You don't suppose that these were all Mexicans dissolved in acid and then planted in Mississippi, do you?
Bongo wrote:
do you not know that the unrighteous shall not inherit the kingdom of God?
I knew that. The righteous won't do much better.
Eagle 12

Edwardsville, IL

#212327 Feb 13, 2014
blacklagoon wrote:
<quoted text>Atheism is a REJECTION of Theistic claims. Nowfuckoffyoupatheticloser
Don't be mean Doctor. You are a better man than that.

Atheism is the proud belief in “Nothingism.”

“Life may be sweeter for this”

Since: Nov 08


#212328 Feb 13, 2014
Bob of Quantum-Faith wrote:
Not to mention, a new car every year or two-- when many of the parishioners drive 5 year old clunkers and worse. It's disgusting. And it is **not** charity in any shape of the word.
I agree. Just because you're giving money away doesn't make it charity.
Eagle 12

Edwardsville, IL

#212329 Feb 13, 2014
It aint necessarily so wrote:
<quoted text>
Have you seen the list of deaths inflicted or ordered by Yahweh? Here's part of it:
[1] God drowns the whole earth. In Genesis 7:21-23, God drowns the entire population of the earth: men, women, children, fetuses, and perhaps unicorns. Only a single family survives. In Matthew 24:37-42, gentle Jesus approves of this genocide and plans to repeat it when he returns.
[2] God incinerates 51 men to make a point. In 2 Kings 1:9-10, Elijah gets God to burn 51 men with fire from heaven to prove he is God.
[3] God slaughters all Egyptian firstborn. In Exodus 12:29, God the baby-killer slaughters all Egyptian firstborn children and cattle because their king was stubborn.
[4] God kills 14,000 people for complaining that God keeps killing them. In Numbers 16:41-49, the Israelites complain that God is killing too many of them. So, God sends a plague that kills 14,000 more of them.
[5] God helps Samson kill 30 men because he lost a bet. In Judges 14:11-19, Samson loses a bet for 30 sets of clothes. The spirit of God comes upon him and he kills 30 men to steal their clothes and pay off the debt.
[6] God kills 50,000 people for curiosity. In 1 Samuel 6:19, God kills 50,000 men for peeking into the ark of the covenant.(Newer cosmetic translations count only 70 deaths, but their text notes admit that the best and earliest manuscripts put the number at 50,070.)
[7] 3,000 Israelites killed for inventing a god. In Exodus 32, Moses has climbed Mount Sinai to get the Ten Commandments. The Israelites are bored, so they invent a golden calf god. Moses comes back and God commands him:“Each man strap a sword to his side. Go back and forth through the camp from one end to the other, each killing his brother and friend and neighbor.” About 3,000 people died.
[8] The Amorites destroyed by sword and by God’s rocks. In Joshua 10:10-11, God helps the Israelites slaughter the Amorites by sword, then finishes them off with rocks from the sky.
[9] God burns two cities to death. In Genesis 19:24, God kills everyone in Sodom and Gomorrah with fire from the sky. Then God kills Lot’s wife for looking back at her burning home.
[10] God has 42 children mauled by bears. In 2 Kings 2:23-24, some kids tease the prophet Elisha, and God sends bears to dismember them.
The god of the bible goes on to command:
• KILL anyone who wears mixed fabrics.
• KILL any child that disrespects its parents
• KILL anyone who works on Saturday
• KILL anyone who eats meat AND cheese together
• KILL anyone who swears by god
• KILL any man who goes into the temple after having sex with a woman who is on her •
• "Show No Mercy!" Deut 7:2
• "March to War!" Numbers 32:20
• "Ethnic cleanse!" Deut. 20:15
• "Commit genocide!" Joshua 10:20
• "Enslave!" Lev. 25:44
• "Beat to death!" Ex. 21:20
• "Kill women and chilldren!" Numbers 31:17, 1 Samuel 15:3
• "Kill all prisoners!" Deut 7:2
• "Destroy!" Deut. 7:16
• "Annihilate!" Deut. 17:29
• "Slaughter!" Deut. 13:15, Joshua 8:24
• "Burn!" Deut. 13:15
• "Torture!" Lev. 24:23, Numbers 5:11
• "Massacre!" Numbers 21:2
• "Exterminate!" Deut 2:34, Deut 3:3
• "Crush!" Deut. 33:29
• "Kill!" Joshua 9:24
• "Destroy!" Deut 31:4
• "Smite!" Esther 9:5
• "Slash!" Judges 15:8
• "Burn!" joshua 6:24
• "Kill!" Joshua 10:10
• "Kill!" Judges 11:33
• "Kill!" Deut 9:3
• "Loot!" Deut. 20:10
• "Plunder!" Numbers 31:9, Deut 2:35
• "Rape!" Numbers 31:18, Deut. 21:10, Judges 21:11
• "Pillage!" 1 Samuel 23:5
• "Kill!" Deut 9:3
• "Kill!" Deut 20:15
• "Kill!" Judges 21:11
How different would the universe be under the rule of a psychopath like Hitler?
Have you seen the list of deaths done by your fellow man?

Holy freaking cow Doctor.

“Life may be sweeter for this”

Since: Nov 08


#212330 Feb 13, 2014
Bongo wrote:
If God killed people im sure he had a good reason.

We were told in scripture that the failure of the couple in the garden brought hardship to the animal kingdom too. Its temporary , in terms of eternity, a blip. it.
I think you settle for too little. You should be objecting to such ideas. I understand why you are not free to do so, which is why I blame your ideology and not you.

“Life may be sweeter for this”

Since: Nov 08


#212331 Feb 13, 2014
It aint necessarily so wrote:
What makes you think that we aren't concerned about all suffering?
Bongo wrote:
The focus seems to be on constant assailing the Church whose crimes are a mere fraction of needless suffering being perpetrated out there.
That's what we discuss here. You'd 'might be amazed at how little religious issues come up in other areas of my life.

Why doesn't the church deserve the treatment it gets here? Are there any demonstrable benefits from it that we couldn't have without it to offset its crimes?

“The eye has it...”

Since: May 09

Russell's teapot

#212332 Feb 13, 2014
Bongo wrote:
Im offering no defense for the catholics but I am suprised at that prejudiced atheist indignation that majors on a few hundred kids violated by a few priests
Don't forget that the problem with sexual abuse and molestation of children - and adults - is just as severe, if not more so in the Protestant faiths too.

Don't forget the Protestants.
Bongo wrote:
yet does not seem to consider millions starving to death and subject to poverty, and drug and alcohol abusing parents, to name just a few maladies. Religion with all its problems is a better way.
I think pretty much all humans are concerned with those problems, and to act as if atheists are only concerned with what happens to children and adults at the hands of the Christian clergy and membership is placing your head in the sand.
Bongo wrote:
Religion with all its problems is a better way.
Really? Do you really think worshiping a deity or deities - because none of the deities worshiped by humans do a thing to alleviate these ills you mention - is a better way?

Do you really think if there were no deity beliefs in the world, the world would be worse?

How have deity beliefs helped? I'm going to point out right now that those deity beliefs haven't helped the clergy and members of Christianity that have decided to abuse their fellow man.

If anything, this bizarre notion of believing that all you need to do is ask for forgiveness from the deity for "sin" does nothing. It quite literally enables a person to act with impunity.

Before you pull the "No True Christian™" fallacy out of your hat, understand that is not an answer, it's a hollow excuse.

“Life may be sweeter for this”

Since: Nov 08


#212333 Feb 13, 2014
Zachary Gima wrote:
<quoted text>Believe me, the Red Army provided various assistance and guidance with the liberation of Belgrade and withdrew after the war was over. In 1946, the new constitution of Socialist Federal Republic of Yugoslavia, modeled after the Soviet Union, established six republics, an autonomous province, and an autonomous district that were part of SR Serbia. The federal capital was Belgrade.
The religious demographics of Yugoslavia changed dramatically since World War II. A census taken in right after the war showed that 99% of the population appeared to be deeply involved with their religion and practices. With postwar government programs of modernization and urbanization, the percentage of religious believers took a dramatic plunge. Connections between religious belief and nationality posed a serious threat to the post-war Communist government's policies on national unity and state structure. After the rise of communism, a survey taken in 1964 showed that just over 70% of the total population of Yugoslavia even considered themselves to be religious believers.
The post–World War II Yugoslavia was in many respects a model of how to build a multinational state. The Federation was constructed against a country which had been dominated by the Serbian ruling class; and a war-time division of the country, as Fascist Italy and Nazi Germany split the country apart and endorsed an extreme Catholic Croatian nationalist faction which committed genocide against the Protestant Serbs. A small faction of Bosniak (Muslim) nationalists joined the Axis forces and attacked Serbs while extreme Serb nationalists engaged in attacks on Bosniaks and Croats.
The internal ethnic violence was only ended when the multiethnic Yugoslav Partisans took over the country at the end of the war and banned nationalism (founded on religious identity) from being publicly promoted. Overall relative peace was retained under Tito's rule, though nationalist protests did occur, but these were usually repressed and nationalist leaders were arrested.
In the late 80's, coinciding with the Soviet Union Glasnost, ethnic tensions resurfaced in Yugoslavia as each province made their claim to greater autonomy as religious nationalism was re-introduced with no limitations.
Nice. It's great to have such an erudite contribution in an unfamiliar area. We have an eclectic collection of academics posting here.

Is that you in the photo? Former Bruin and Buckeye here, but not for a long time. I was there in the Johnny Wooden and Woody Hayes days.

“Life may be sweeter for this”

Since: Nov 08


#212334 Feb 13, 2014
Tide with Beach wrote:
<quoted text>
I wish I could have seen those two going down... the hill.
New Rule: Instead of the Winter Olympics having both the luge, where people ride down the ice feet first and the skeleton, where people ride down the ice face first, they must be merged into one event called ‘Sledding 69.’- Bill Maher in his ‘New Rules’ segment, January 17, 2014.

Since: Dec 12

Yes, I'm an Atheist.

#212335 Feb 13, 2014
It aint necessarily so wrote:
<quoted text>There is no reason to have feelings for a church - just its victims, which includes its adherents. If some people are feeling a bit beleaguered defending the church, that is by choice. We expect them to consider our arguments, reconsider their own choices, and make rational and compassionate ones in place of simply accepting ideas on faith. If they can't or won't do so, then they'll just have to accept the scorn of those of us who have.

I do empathize with them. They probably got to where they are with no malice, and in obedience to people and ideas that they trusted. But they'll have to take that up with those people. We have to concern ourselves with societal health and the victims of the church, not the plight of people caught in the crossfire of a transforming cultural paradigm, who, as I alluded, are also its victims - albeit willing ones.
I see the church as the body of believers and although some may be innocent victims, like the children, I hold the majority accountable for their actions and their defence of such actions.

Since: Jan 11

Location hidden

#212336 Feb 13, 2014
Eagle 12 wrote:
Have you seen the list of deaths done by your fellow man?
Holy freaking cow Doctor.
If your deity has the power to shape the universe according to its will, then the universe is the result of its will, and nothing less. An all powerful deity is necessarily responsible for all that transpires within its realm of influence.

Is your deity all powerful, or just kinda powerful?

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