Atheism requires as much faith as rel...

Atheism requires as much faith as religion?

There are 255548 comments on the Webbunny tumblelog story from Jul 18, 2009, titled Atheism requires as much faith as religion?. In it, Webbunny tumblelog reports that:

Atheism requires as much faith as religion? bearvspuma : The only problem with this rationalization is that ita s assuming all athiests are so because theya re intelligent in the ways of science and reasoning and all people that believe in a form of god are unintelligent.

Join the discussion below, or Read more at Webbunny tumblelog.

Since: Sep 10

UK

#212277 Feb 13, 2014
Buck Crick wrote:
<quoted text>
I compliment your tone.
I recall when it was not this way.
But I still don't like Grateful Dead.
And here I thought you were tone deaf.

Hey, I saw some great Vincents today.

I know you do like those.

“Life may be sweeter for this”

Since: Nov 08

Fennario

#212278 Feb 13, 2014
Bongo wrote:
Btw a fiend of mine who is a professional just returned from Cabo recently. Said he felt safe but would never go to the mainland. A local traveler made that mistake recently.
We have now somehow managed to survive 1649 consecutive days here.

I watch the American news from time to time and count my blessings.

I became aware this week of another story in Florida where a man shot repeatedly into a car full of teens because he said he feared for his life, which is apparently a defense in Florida however insubstantial your reason.
Bongo wrote:
What about this pessimism? Is it really empathy? Remember, and I surmise you should know more than most, many people seek God in severe adversity. There are a lot of hurting people out there. It can take many years to mature in the faith. I don't think nihilism is a proper description of it. A person can traverse life with the rose colored glasses, are you claiming that's better?
Is there nothing between rose colored and shit stained glasses? Is it only one or the other?

And yes, it is better to be able to see and appreciate the good in the world than to be convinced that it is all bad, doomed, corrupt, dangerous, and failed. I think it's a noxious worldview that serves those that benefit from fearful, angry, frustrated and divided people, which includes both the church and some cynical, selfish political factions.

“Life may be sweeter for this”

Since: Nov 08

Fennario

#212279 Feb 13, 2014
Bongo wrote:

Again, as the story goes, this is a fallen temporary state. Christians are in the world but not of the world......Do not love the world nor the things in the world. If anyone loves the world, the love of the Father is not in him. 16For all that is in the world, the lust of the flesh and the lust of the eyes and the boastful pride of life, is not from the Father, but is from the world.… I know you loathe these words but how can you adequately dispute their veracity?
I do loathe those words. And they misrepresent life. I realize that I am more fortunate than many, but probably no more so than you. You seem comfortable and in control of your world, and can live more or less as you like.

But you seem to live under a cloud that robs you of some of the joy and contentment that I believe that you are entitled to. We are not fallen. I am grateful to be in and of this world, which is filled with beauty and goodness. The lust of the flesh properly channeled is a beautiful thing, and satisfying it is reason enough to live. I lust not just for sex, but for good ideas, for good friends, for good conversation, for laughter, for beauty, and for new experiences. Whoever told you otherwise lied to you and injected gratuitous guilt into your mind for wanting to taste pleasure.
Bongo

Miller Place, NY

#212280 Feb 13, 2014
Darwins Stepchild wrote:
<quoted text>
This is one of the WORST things apologetics has to say. Utterly immoral.
Not for a diety. As Ians would say, youre no more than a blade of grass or a shrimp.

“Life may be sweeter for this”

Since: Nov 08

Fennario

#212281 Feb 13, 2014
Bongo wrote:
When giving, and it should be to your local ministry not some tv evangelist its tax deductible and those clergy are fiduciaries. Whether or not they do the right thing is between them and God. You state rightly so, you got your reward. Christians store up their treasure in heaven. Its a spiritual thing, man.
My spiritual experiences occur right here on this planet in this life.

I would not give my money to a preacher or any charity bigger than a local animal shelter run by somebody that I know personally. Most of my charitable spending goes directly to beneficiaries. or to purchase things of little value to thieves, like canned food.

If you want to put a little of that pessimism of yours to good use, redirect it to your concept of charity. Charitable giving should be local and direct to be sure that it is used honestly and efficiently.

"Whether or not they do the right thing is" not the issue, because you generally cannot know. It's whether you do the right thing. In my experience, the good people are the ones reaching for their wallets, and the bad ones are among those with their hands out. It's very hard to tell how many good ones are included in that second group. When I look at the church records available to me, I find that it is likely to be very few.

Do you know how little of the money Mother Theresa collected on behalf of the dying, suffering poor actually went to them? I have reliable data from the government of the UK. You'd vomit if you knew. And we're talking about Mother Teresa here, who's name is associated with tender altruism the way Einstein's is with genius, Midas' is with wealth, Solomon's is with wisdom, and Hitler's is with evil.

“Life may be sweeter for this”

Since: Nov 08

Fennario

#212282 Feb 13, 2014
Bongo wrote:
Ians, how do you get normal type between the italics when responding?
I am going to substitute angular brackets for curved ones so that you can see them

<QUOTE who="trandiode">T o date not one has put forward an intelligent argument as to why a God cannot exist !</QUOTE>

That's not the majority position. We argue that god claims are unsupported, that the god hypothesis appears unnecessary, that gods are very unlikely and probably don't exist, and that if they do, they haven't contacted us, and have required nothing of us, including faith or worship. That's very different from your claim on our behalf.

<QUOTE who="trandiode"> Sorry to all the Atheists that have posted on this thread you have not been very convincing !</QUOTE>

We have nothing that you value to offer you.

"Water is two parts hydrogen and one part oxygen. What if someone says,“Well, that’s not how I choose to think about water; All we can do is appeal to scientific values. And if he doesn’t share those values, the conversation is over ." - Sam Harris

"If someone doesn’t value evidence, what evidence are you going to provide to prove they should value it? If someone doesn’t value logic, what logical argument could you provide to show the importance of logic?" - Sam Harris

<QUOTE who="trandiode"> The belief in a God opens you up to far more than just a father figure !</QUOTE>

It opens you up to an irrational metaphysics, a sterile epistemology, and a monstrous ethical system that considers whatever a god commands to be good right because it has commanded it, however sadistic.

<QUOTE who="trandiode"> gives you a meaning and a purpose to your life</QUOTE>

Not if that meaning and purpose depend on the existence of god. If your purpose is defined by that, then you have no purpose except to praise a god, which means that you are of no value to others or yourself, and of very little to the god..

=======

If I convert all of those angular brackets to the standard squarte ones,it will be rendered like this:
trandiode wrote:
To date not one has put forward an intelligent argument as to why a God cannot exist !
That's not the majority position. We argue that god claims are unsupported, that the god hypothesis appears unnecessary, that gods are very unlikely and probably don't exist, and that if they do, they haven't contacted us, and have required nothing of us, including faith or worship. That's very different from your claim on our behalf.

trandiode wrote:
Sorry to all the Atheists that have posted on this thread you have not been very convincing !
We have nothing that you value to offer you.

"Water is two parts hydrogen and one part oxygen. What if someone says,“Well, that’s not how I choose to think about water; All we can do is appeal to scientific values. And if he doesn’t share those values, the conversation is over ." - Sam Harris

"If someone doesn’t value evidence, what evidence are you going to provide to prove they should value it? If someone doesn’t value logic, what logical argument could you provide to show the importance of logic?" - Sam Harris
trandiode wrote:
The belief in a God opens you up to far more than just a father figure !
It opens you up to an irrational metaphysics, a sterile epistemology, and a monstrous ethical system that considers whatever a god commands to be good right because it has commanded it, however sadistic.
trandiode wrote:
gives you a meaning and a purpose to your life
Not if that meaning and purpose depend on the existence of god. If your purpose is defined by that, then you have no purpose except to praise a god, which means that you are of no value to others or yourself, and of very little to the god..
Bongo

Miller Place, NY

#212283 Feb 13, 2014
Darwins Stepchild wrote:
<quoted text>
A few hundred???
You are sadly misinformed.
And even one, abused in the name of religion, is one too many.
More awful apologetics from Bongo.
In the name of religion? Thou mewling prevaricator .

“Life may be sweeter for this”

Since: Nov 08

Fennario

#212284 Feb 13, 2014
"I am going to substitute angular brackets for curved ones so that you can see them"

should have said

"I am going to substitute angular brackets for SQUARE ones so that you can see them"
Bongo

Miller Place, NY

#212285 Feb 13, 2014
It aint necessarily so wrote:
<quoted text>
I do loathe those words. And they misrepresent life. I realize that I am more fortunate than many, but probably no more so than you. You seem comfortable and in control of your world, and can live more or less as you like.
But you seem to live under a cloud that robs you of some of the joy and contentment that I believe that you are entitled to. We are not fallen. I am grateful to be in and of this world, which is filled with beauty and goodness. The lust of the flesh properly channeled is a beautiful thing, and satisfying it is reason enough to live. I lust not just for sex, but for good ideas, for good friends, for good conversation, for laughter, for beauty, and for new experiences. Whoever told you otherwise lied to you and injected gratuitous guilt into your mind for wanting to taste pleasure.
Sure, the law can cause self loathing shame and guilt. There is some anhedonia. We have to contend with this......Whosoever shall seek to save his life shall lose it; and whosoever shall lose his life shall preserve it.
Bongo

Miller Place, NY

#212286 Feb 13, 2014
blacklagoon wrote:
<quoted text>Science has NO understanding about "spiritual things" as they, whatever the f--ck they are, are non-existent. If you want to claim something from the supernatural realm is real, then the ONLY option you have is to call it magic.
Yes, the "STORY" goes.blah blah........A mythical being scooped up a pile of dirt, blew on it, and out popped a fully formed human male. Sounds a lot like godmagic to me. It actually sounds like the most ridiculous explanation for life ever invented. To believe such points to a serious mental disorder. Most people simple accept this premiss without REALLY thinking about it. But taking the time to actually absorb the claim, has to make the intelligent person realize just how foolish such a claim really is.
Lagoonish platitudes. Where do your thoughts come from? What about your being and abilities?

“Seventh son”

Since: Dec 10

Will Prevail

#212287 Feb 13, 2014
Bongo wrote:
<quoted text> Majoring in the minors again, little man?
Anytime you post to Bongo , it's a minor event.
Bongo

Miller Place, NY

#212288 Feb 13, 2014
It aint necessarily so wrote:
<quoted text>
We have now somehow managed to survive 1649 consecutive days here.
I watch the American news from time to time and count my blessings.
I became aware this week of another story in Florida where a man shot repeatedly into a car full of teens because he said he feared for his life, which is apparently a defense in Florida however insubstantial your reason.
<quoted text>
Is there nothing between rose colored and shit stained glasses? Is it only one or the other?
And yes, it is better to be able to see and appreciate the good in the world than to be convinced that it is all bad, doomed, corrupt, dangerous, and failed. I think it's a noxious worldview that serves those that benefit from fearful, angry, frustrated and divided people, which includes both the church and some cynical, selfish political factions.
1) There will be an expensive investigation and trial in florida and there is a 911 to call.. In Mexico you disappear in a barrel of acid. There will be no investigation or capture of killers and kidnappers. The good citizens are so frightened that no witness or person will say anything to help. 2) There is a balance and Christians do experience abundant life within these parameters..........Or do you not know that the unrighteous shall not inherit the kingdom of God? Do not be deceived; neither fornicators, nor idolaters, nor adulterers, nor effeminate, nor homosexuals, nor thieves, nor the covetous, nor drunkards, nor revilers, swindlers, shall inherit the kingdom of God. And such were some of you; but you were washed, but you were sanctified, but you were justified in the name of the Lord Jesus Christ, and in the Spirit of our God." (I CORINTHIANS 6:9-11).
Bongo

Miller Place, NY

#212289 Feb 13, 2014
Aura Mytha wrote:
<quoted text>
Anytime you post to Bongo , it's a minor event.
Don't sell yourself short, just because youre short.

“Life may be sweeter for this”

Since: Nov 08

Fennario

#212290 Feb 13, 2014
Bongo wrote:
Sometimes you have to trim the herd, for good reason. Just like when those scientists killed that healthy giraffe the other day.
I saw the image of that beautiful creature dead on the ground and refused to watch that story.

And I'm sorry to read such a comment from you. Why did the human herd need trimming?

But I know why you post such things. I saw the first half hour of the recent Darwin special on HBO this morning, and saw an orca flinging a seal through the air while they were discussing things Darwin saw on his voyages.and how they made him question the idea of our world being the creation of a loving god.

Then we see Ken Ham saying that if Darwin had learned Christian theology properly, he would have understood that that was his god's reaction to the disobedience of a couple of undisciplined young people subjected to temptation.

Then they switch to somebody named Rose Rose (seriously) who can only say that her god is mysterious, and all of that suffering and misery must be some form of godly love that she cannot fathom.

These are the things that frustrate me about religion, and why I want our world to be rid of it.

“Life may be sweeter for this”

Since: Nov 08

Fennario

#212291 Feb 13, 2014
Bongo wrote:
If its some consolation, in contrast to other injustices in the world, that church paid out billions even to those who took thirty years to make a claim.
Are you praising the church in any sense for that?

“MEET KIKI -She Seeks Home”

Since: Oct 10

With Established Harem

#212292 Feb 13, 2014
blacklagoon wrote:
<quoted text>Grow a pair will ya!!!
.. do you have a recipe ??..

“Quantum Junctn: Use Both Lanes”

Since: Dec 06

Tulsa, Oklahoma USofA

#212293 Feb 13, 2014
Divinity Surgeon wrote:
<quoted text>
Not only that, they also make a profit from many of their "charities".
<quoted text>
A former pawnbroker, Booth was aware that poverty largely stemmed from the structure of society that he was in. However the social system that created conditions of poverty and inequality was not to be improved or replaced via social revolution. Instead Booth hoped to promote a “kinder, gentler” form of industrial capitalism, one with the “Christian values” of hard work, abstinence and charity. Booth characterised the revolutionary Christianity of the Diggers and Levellers as “utopian” and believed that Salvation Army members could earn a large profit from businesses and still keep a good conscience. In his view (and contrary to many others) the Bible was detached from social and economic change. For him the work of a good Christian was to piously tend to the poor rather than work with them in the hope of transforming a society based on poverty for some people and profit for others.
Regardless of their attitude towards social structures the primary aim of the Salvation Army was not to provide charity, but to win souls from the devil. Booth stated that what was important was not “whether a man died in the poorhouse but if his soul was saved”.(2) Dispensing the absolute basics of food and temporary housing to the needy was motivated by the need to recruit rather than by anything in the Bible. Any of the poor who were unfortunate enough to go against the Army’s morals were quick to discover themselves out on the street, hungry or not.(3)
<quoted text>
http://wrongkindofgreen.org/2013/03/18/the-st...
What a scam, just one of several.
Indeed.... the salvation army is one of the most hideous and bigoted organization in a whole choir of such things.

It *is* an excellent example of what following the bible teaches, however.

“Quantum Junctn: Use Both Lanes”

Since: Dec 06

Tulsa, Oklahoma USofA

#212294 Feb 13, 2014
It aint necessarily so wrote:
<quoted text>
You haven't established that Christians outperform atheists. You merely assume and assert it. If you aren't spending your charitable contributions directly on the intended beneficiaries, as in buying them groceries or paying their utility bills, you're probably accomplishing next to nothing except lining some scam artists pocket.
What fraction of the money given to churches do you suppose makes its way past the clergy and the cost of running those franchises? Money spent building new churches or paying the pastor's mortgage payment isn't what I call charity
<quoted text>
Really? That sounds hollow. I get my reward serving people.
Not to mention, a new car every year or two-- when many of the parishioners drive 5 year old clunkers and worse.

It's disgusting.

And it is **not** charity in any shape of the word.

“Game Over”

Since: Oct 10

Location hidden

#212295 Feb 13, 2014
Buck Crick wrote:
<quoted text>
If you like that sort of thing, I could find time to knock you around a bit.
First, I owe Bongo an ass whoopin'.
Should I pencil you in, Aunt Betty?
Pencil? Are you allowed to have sharp objects again?
blacklagoon

Boston, MA

#212296 Feb 13, 2014
Buck Crick wrote:
<quoted text>
You didn't explain in there anywhere how dinosaurs reproduced with no DNA.
Teasing us?
Atheism is a REJECTION of Theistic claims. Nowfuckoffyoupatheticloser

Tell me when this thread is updated:

Subscribe Now Add to my Tracker

Add your comments below

Characters left: 4000

Please note by submitting this form you acknowledge that you have read the Terms of Service and the comment you are posting is in compliance with such terms. Be polite. Inappropriate posts may be removed by the moderator. Send us your feedback.

Top Stories Discussions

Title Updated Last By Comments
The Christian Atheist debate (Jun '15) 2 min Buck Crick 49,461
News Roman Catholic church only true church, says Va... (Jul '07) 2 min guest 646,960
Play "end of the word" part 2 (Dec '15) 22 min KellyP in Jersey 2,111
Jehovah's Witnesses are true disciple of Jesus ... (Mar '07) 56 min Steve III 44,724
Poll Was 9/11 a conspiracy?? (Oct '07) 1 hr Pegasus 281,290
Why Should Jesus Love Me? (Feb '08) 1 hr Peace_Warrior 618,565
Poll Is homosexuality a sin? (Oct '07) 1 hr karl44 105,685
Prove there's a god. (Mar '08) 5 hr The Hangman 971,805
topix drops human sexuality forum.......this be... 7 hr WasteWater 27
More from around the web