Atheism requires as much faith as religion?

Atheism requires as much faith as religion? bearvspuma : The only problem with this rationalization is that ita s assuming all athiests are so because theya re intelligent in the ways of science and reasoning and all people that believe in a form of god are unintelligent. Full Story

“Life may be sweeter for this”

Since: Nov 08

Fennario

#211945 Feb 11, 2014
blacklagoon wrote:
You may claim this event happened, but once again, you MUST use magic, Godmagic as a cause. I stopped believing in magic a long tie ago, you seem to still hold on the childish idea that magic is real, why is that?
Eagle 12 wrote:
Magic is based on trickery and or the occult.
You're talking about illusions and sleight of hand, like a stage performer. He's talking about supernaturalism - the suspension of the laws of physics.
Eagle 12 wrote:
I don’t believe in magic but I do believe in miracles since I have actually witnessed miracles.
That is unlikely.

And yes, you do believe in magic if you believe that bona fide miracles occur. Miracles (the literal sense of the word) such as willing water to become wine are magic (the supernatural sense). Such things are not known to occur.
Bongo

Medford, NY

#211946 Feb 11, 2014
It aint necessarily so wrote:
<quoted text>
You wasted your morning. I had breakfast outdoors at the plaza with my wife and two other couples.
Did you give them your money?
<quoted text>
There went the afternoon.
<quoted text>
Um, yeah. Have you ever stopped to consider the cost of faith? You might be aware of Pascal's Wager. You probably have no concept of the cost in dollars, hours, and lost opportunity of losing that bet.
<quoted text>
Did you think that those things that you mentioned constituted offering something?
Atheism offers an alternative to dogma, superstition, faith based thinking, mythology, and magical thinking. It gives one the opportunity to embrace a life affirming, reality based, character building ideology like humanism. Instead, you are an angry, bitter, and rude zealot and dreamer. That's also part of the cost of your choice.
Pascals wager is invalid. There is no life insurance for a skeptic. By contrast, treasonous atheists have once accepted Christ and the COST, your life. They then reneged and broke covenant . There is a lot of speciousness in your post. Its good to gather with friends and family and give to the ministry, trusting them. Kimare may be unsavory but Jesus is still Lord. A live dog is better than a dead lion.
Richardfs

Saint Marys, Australia

#211947 Feb 11, 2014
Bongo wrote:
<quoted text> Pascals wager is invalid. There is no life insurance for a skeptic. By contrast, treasonous atheists have once accepted Christ and the COST, your life. They then reneged and broke covenant . There is a lot of speciousness in your post. Its good to gather with friends and family and give to the ministry, trusting them. Kimare may be unsavory but Jesus is still Lord. A live dog is better than a dead lion.
'Bongo' the short way to spell 'brain washed'.

How do you know you have the right god, there are 40+ versions of the bibull, 32000+ different gods, 38000+ versions of christianity and 4 billion Hindi gods with all faiths saying the same thing "this is the one true god".

“The eye has it...”

Since: May 09

Russell's Teapot

#211948 Feb 11, 2014
KiMare wrote:
<quoted text>
Virgin Nativity
Isaiah 7:11, 14 (NLT)“Ask the Lord your God for a sign of confirmation... Make it as difficult as you want—as high as heaven or as deep as the place of the dead.” Wow! What a challenge! Do you want confirmation about something? Ask for any sign you can imagine. But the offer is deferred. So God takes up His own challenge; Isaiah 7:14 ...the Lord himself will give you the sign. Look! The virgin will conceive a child! She will give birth to a son and will call him Immanuel (which means ‘God is with us’). For thousands of years Jews have pondered the challenge avoided by Ahaz, but forced by God. A sign 'as high as heaven or as deep as hell'. A pregnant virgin? Everyone knew that was silly impossible. For thousands of years. Of course there have always been girls who could not understand how their pregnancy occurred. And yes, there have been myths about sex with gods. But never did pregnancy and virginity go together in any of these incidents. Sensible people knew. Until God stated His own sign. The sign will be a virgin birth. And until Joseph and Mary. For the first time, someone had the audacity to claim impregnation by God... and still be a virgin.
KiMare wrote:
Luke 1: 26-38 (NLT) In the sixth month of Elizabeth’s pregnancy, God sent the angel Gabriel to Nazareth, a village in Galilee, 27 to a virgin named Mary. She was engaged to be married to a man named Joseph, a descendant of King David. 28 Gabriel appeared to her and said,“Greetings, favored woman! The Lord is with you!” 29 Confused and disturbed, Mary tried to think what the angel could mean. 30 “Don’t be afraid, Mary,” the angel told her,“for you have found favor with God! 31 You will conceive and give birth to a son, and you will name him Jesus. 32 He will be very great and will be called the Son of the Most High. The Lord God will give him the throne of his ancestor David. 33 And he will reign over Israel forever; his Kingdom will never end!” 34 Mary asked the angel,“But how can this happen? I am a virgin.” 35 The angel replied,“The Holy Spirit will come upon you, and the power of the Most High will overshadow you. So the baby to be born will be holy, and he will be called the Son of God... 37 For nothing is impossible with God.” 38 Mary responded,“I am the Lord’s servant. May everything you have said about me come true.” And then the angel left her. And from Matthew 1:18-25 (NLT) This is how Jesus the Messiah was born. His mother, Mary, was engaged to be married to Joseph. But before the marriage took place, while she was still a virgin, she became pregnant through the power of the Holy Spirit. 19 Joseph, her fiancé, was a good man and did not want to disgrace her publicly, so he decided to break the engagement quietly. 20 As he considered this, an angel of the Lord appeared to him in a dream.“Joseph, son of David,” the angel said,“do not be afraid to take Mary as your wife. For the child within her was conceived by the Holy Spirit. 21 And she will have a son, and you are to name him Jesus, for he will save his people from their sins.” 22 All of this occurred to fulfill the Lord’s message through his prophet: 23 “Look! The virgin will conceive a child! She will give birth to a son, and they will call him Immanuel, which means ‘God is with us.’” 24 When Joseph woke up, he did as the angel of the Lord commanded and took Mary as his wife. 25 But he did not have sexual relations with her until her son was born. And Joseph named him Jesus.(edited for space)
Thanks for sharing your religious mythology.

“Life may be sweeter for this”

Since: Nov 08

Fennario

#211949 Feb 11, 2014
KiMare wrote:
atheists just caught up with the very first verse of the Bible, finally embracing the Big Bang theory.
That's cute.

“Life may be sweeter for this”

Since: Nov 08

Fennario

#211950 Feb 11, 2014
KiMare wrote:
And yes, there have been myths about sex with gods. But never did pregnancy and virginity go together in any of these incidents. Sensible people knew. Until God stated His own sign. The sign will be a virgin birth. And until Joseph and Mary. For the first time, someone had the audacity to claim impregnation by God... and still be a virgin.
You're funning us with this, right? Here is a partial list of people said to be born to gods and virgins. Jesus made the list:

Augustus (his father was the god Apollo)
Agdistis
Antiope
Attis
Auge
Adonis
Buddha
Danae
Dionysus
Glycon
Heracles
Horus
Jesus
Korybas
Krishna
Melanippe
Mithras
Odysseus
Osirus
Perseus
Romulus and Remus
Tammuz
Zoroaster

http://listverse.com/2009/04/13/10-christ-lik...
http://thinkerfromiowa.wordpress.com/tag/gods...
http://www.pocm.info/pagan_ideas_virgin_birth...
http://homebrewedchristianity.com/2012/12/19/...

“MEET ROSEMARY-She Seeks Home”

Since: Oct 10

With Established Harem

#211951 Feb 11, 2014
KiMare wrote:
Luke 1: 26-38 (NLT) In the sixth month of Elizabeth’s pregnancy, God sent the angel Gabriel to Nazareth, a village in Galilee, 27 to a virgin named Mary. She was engaged to be married to a man named Joseph, a descendant of King David. 28 Gabriel appeared to her and said,“Greetings, favored woman! The Lord is with you!” 29 Confused and disturbed, Mary tried to think what the angel could mean. 30 “Don’t be afraid, Mary,” the angel told her,“for you have found favor with God! 31 You will conceive and give birth to a son, and you will name him Jesus. 32 He will be very great and will be called the Son of the Most High. The Lord God will give him the throne of his ancestor David. 33 And he will reign over Israel forever; his Kingdom will never end!” 34 Mary asked the angel,“But how can this happen? I am a virgin.” 35 The angel replied,“The Holy Spirit will come upon you, and the power of the Most High will overshadow you. So the baby to be born will be holy, and he will be called the Son of God... 37 For nothing is impossible with God.” 38 Mary responded,“I am the Lord’s servant. May everything you have said about me come true.” And then the angel left her. And from Matthew 1:18-25 (NLT) This is how Jesus the Messiah was born. His mother, Mary, was engaged to be married to Joseph. But before the marriage took place, while she was still a virgin, she became pregnant through the power of the Holy Spirit. 19 Joseph, her fiancé, was a good man and did not want to disgrace her publicly, so he decided to break the engagement quietly. 20 As he considered this, an angel of the Lord appeared to him in a dream.“Joseph, son of David,” the angel said,“do not be afraid to take Mary as your wife. For the child within her was conceived by the Holy Spirit. 21 And she will have a son, and you are to name him Jesus, for he will save his people from their sins.” 22 All of this occurred to fulfill the Lord’s message through his prophet: 23 “Look! The virgin will conceive a child! She will give birth to a son, and they will call him Immanuel, which means ‘God is with us.’” 24 When Joseph woke up, he did as the angel of the Lord commanded and took Mary as his wife. 25 But he did not have sexual relations with her until her son was born. And Joseph named him Jesus. Oh, scoffers with sly smirks mocked believers on that one! For the last two thousand years smart people knowingly acknowledged the claim as a 'symbolic' story... or less. All believers could do was quote the Angel,“With God, all things are possible.” Right... Until the early 1940s. Thousands of years after the sign was pronounced, nearly two thousand years after the sign was fulfilled, artificial insemination was first successfully performed on a human. The possibility of a virgin bearing a child was scientifically proved. Science finally caught up with the sign. Now a sign always is less that the event it validates. But this, this was not a small sign. It was a sign 'as high as heaven, as low as hell,' pronounced by God Himself! What event on earth could be greater than a sign like that? Nothing on earth. Only Immanuel. God with us.
.. hi ya KiMare ..

.. why are you posting scripture on an Atheist thread ??..

“Life may be sweeter for this”

Since: Nov 08

Fennario

#211952 Feb 11, 2014
KiMare wrote:
Luke 1: 26-38 (NLT) In the sixth month of Elizabeth’s pregnancy, God sent the angel Gabriel to Nazareth, a village in Galilee, 27 to a virgin named Mary. She was engaged to be married to a man named Joseph, a descendant of King David. 28 Gabriel appeared to her and said,“Greetings, favored woman! The Lord is with you!” 29 Confused and disturbed, Mary tried to think what the angel could mean. 30 “Don’t be afraid, Mary,” the angel told her,“for you have found favor with God! 31 You will conceive and give birth to a son, and you will name him Jesus. 32 He will be very great and will be called the Son of the Most High. The Lord God will give him the throne of his ancestor David. 33 And he will reign over Israel forever; his Kingdom will never end!” 34 Mary asked the angel,“But how can this happen? I am a virgin.” 35 The angel replied,“The Holy Spirit will come upon you, and the power of the Most High will overshadow you. So the baby to be born will be holy, and he will be called the Son of God... 37 For nothing is impossible with God.” 38 Mary responded,“I am the Lord’s servant. May everything you have said about me come true.” And then the angel left her. And from Matthew 1:18-25 (NLT) This is how Jesus the Messiah was born. His mother, Mary, was engaged to be married to Joseph. But before the marriage took place, while she was still a virgin, she became pregnant through the power of the Holy Spirit. 19 Joseph, her fiancé, was a good man and did not want to disgrace her publicly, so he decided to break the engagement quietly. 20 As he considered this, an angel of the Lord appeared to him in a dream.“Joseph, son of David,” the angel said,“do not be afraid to take Mary as your wife. For the child within her was conceived by the Holy Spirit. 21 And she will have a son, and you are to name him Jesus, for he will save his people from their sins.” 22 All of this occurred to fulfill the Lord’s message through his prophet: 23 “Look! The virgin will conceive a child! She will give birth to a son, and they will call him Immanuel, which means ‘God is with us.’” 24 When Joseph woke up, he did as the angel of the Lord commanded and took Mary as his wife. 25 But he did not have sexual relations with her until her son was born. And Joseph named him Jesus.
Thanks for sharing your mythology.

Would you like to see any of the myths of the other virgin births I just referred to? I'm guessing not. I'm guessing that you would find it about as interesting and useful as the above.
KiMare wrote:
Thousands of years after the sign was pronounced, nearly two thousand years after the sign was fulfilled, artificial insemination was first successfully performed on a human. The possibility of a virgin bearing a child was scientifically proved. Science finally caught up with the sign.
Are you claiming that your scriptures prophesied artificial insemination with myths of virgin births? If so, you have to give the credit to the oldest virgin birth myth. I don't know which one that would be, but several of the other myths are centuries older.
KiMare wrote:
Oh, scoffers with sly smirks mocked believers on that one!
You're projecting with the smirking part. but yes, we scoff at your myths and your fantastic claims about scripture anticipating science..

“Turning coffee into theorems”

Since: Dec 06

Trapped inside a Klein Bottle

#211953 Feb 11, 2014
Happy Lesbo wrote:
<quoted text>
.. hi ya KiMare ..
.. why are you posting scripture on an Atheist thread ??..
I was wondering about that myself. They seem to have this amusing idea that we will give a s#!t.

“Turning coffee into theorems”

Since: Dec 06

Trapped inside a Klein Bottle

#211954 Feb 11, 2014
At a Catholic hospital in Ardmore, OK a receptionist expressed this opinion...

“How can she say atheist in front of these kids?! You shouldn’t be allowed to reproduce if that’s how you feel. That’s just my opinion.“

For more see...

http://www.patheos.com/blogs/friendlyatheist/...

...and the follow-up...

http://www.patheos.com/blogs/friendlyatheist/...
blacklagoon

Boston, MA

#211955 Feb 11, 2014
KiMare wrote:
<quoted text>
I wasn't the one that brought up 'popularity'.
These are not people who believe the world is flat or 6000 years old. The find no conflict between what they understand about the Bible and what science knows.
On the other hand, atheists just caught up with the very first verse of the Bible, finally embracing the Big Bang theory.
ONE Church does more than all the atheists of that community. There is no equating.
Yes, you were the one who brought up popularity, here:

"Sunday I attended a Church with 4,000 people who disagree with all of your group. Later I attended a meeting of over 100 professional people, including professors from a large liberal college."

That you would try and connect the Big Bang Theory to "Let there be light" in Genesis, I find not only humorous but unbelievably pathetic. The writings found in an immoral ancient book that fails on all issues of science, compared to real scientific findings that support the Big Bang Theory is laughable. I'm not even sure if you're serious!!!!

“Life may be sweeter for this”

Since: Nov 08

Fennario

#211956 Feb 11, 2014
KiMare wrote:
Actually, that wasn't the issue. But if you want to include others, religious belief systems SIGNIFICANTLY outnumber atheistic belief systems.
Apart from there being no atheist belief system, your argument simply underscores how readily and frequently mankind makes up religions and believes them even though at most, only one of them could be correct, and how these mythologies can become major systems of belief subsuming the lives of millions of people for centuries despite there being zero basis in fact for them.

Since we know with certainty that this happens commonly, and that at least all but one are baseless fables, the question becomes why should we believe that even one of them is right, and if we did, on what basis could we pick one from the others? None better than accident of birth coupled with the will to believe without reason.

Notice that there is only one atheism.

"Can you explain why there are several hundred thousand gods accepted by different religious people, but only one periodic table accepted by different scientists?" - anon

Yes. It's the same reason that there are so many creation myths and only one scientific explanation for the development of the universe from a singularity and for the common descent of the tree of life from a single primordial cell.

Incidentally, if you ever get a hankering to look at some other creation myths besides the one thrown into your playpen, you can check here:

http://www.gly.uga.edu/railsback/CS/CSIndex.h...
http://www.magictails.com/creationlinks.html

Regarding your claim that your myth anticipated the Big Bang despite it getting absolutely nothing else right apart from the single concept that our universe had a beginning, please note that each of these also gets just that one fact and none other right.

Did you still want to claim that either your religion, your virgin birth myth, or your creation myth are somehow special or prophetic?

“MEET ROSEMARY-She Seeks Home”

Since: Oct 10

With Established Harem

#211957 Feb 11, 2014
Happy Lesbo wrote:
<quoted text>
.. hi ya KiMare ..
.. why are you posting scripture on an Atheist thread ??..
Darwins Stepchild wrote:
<quoted text>
I was wondering about that myself. They seem to have this amusing idea that we will give a s#!t.
.. proselytism doesn't work yet some believers feel compelled to spread the 'Good News'..

.. why ??..

“Turning coffee into theorems”

Since: Dec 06

Trapped inside a Klein Bottle

#211958 Feb 11, 2014
The Telegraph recently interviewed Virginians in a small town, particularly noting the opinions of non-believers. They report...

"In two days of interviews at least half of the avowed non-believers declined to be named in the Telegraph, citing fears they would be ostracised by friends, family, churches and even their employers."

I feel this is one reason why numbers of non-believers in America may be under-reported. Many may be staying in the atheist closet because of fear of retribution by believers.
Who Knew

Santa Ana, CA

#211959 Feb 11, 2014
Richardfs wrote:
Seven people half of whom were related to each other repopulated the world without using insect
Ya

“Life may be sweeter for this”

Since: Nov 08

Fennario

#211960 Feb 11, 2014
Bongo wrote:
Pascals wager is invalid.
Agreed. It is easily refuted.
Bongo wrote:
There is no life insurance for a skeptic.
There is none for a theist, either. If there is an afterlife, it will be there for all of us. Nobody will be rewarded for believing a mythology. Why would they be?

“Turning coffee into theorems”

Since: Dec 06

Trapped inside a Klein Bottle

#211961 Feb 11, 2014
Happy Lesbo wrote:
Happy Lesbo wrote:
<quoted text>
.. hi ya KiMare ..
.. why are you posting scripture on an Atheist thread ??..
<quoted text>
.. proselytism doesn't work yet some believers feel compelled to spread the 'Good News'..
.. why ??..
<Jesus knocks on door>

Man inside: "What do you want?"

Jesus: "I want to save you."

Man inside: "From what?"

Jesus: "From what I am going to do to you if you don't open this door."

“Turning coffee into theorems”

Since: Dec 06

Trapped inside a Klein Bottle

#211962 Feb 11, 2014
Who Knew wrote:
<quoted text>
Ya
The best that could have been done, concerning incest, in the Noah story is for 1st cousins to marry. Otherwise you would have things like brother-sister, uncle-niece, or worse.

“Life may be sweeter for this”

Since: Nov 08

Fennario

#211963 Feb 11, 2014
Bongo wrote:
Kimare may be unsavory
Agreed. I hope you won't take it personally if I deal with him differently that I do the other theists posting.

“Life may be sweeter for this”

Since: Nov 08

Fennario

#211964 Feb 11, 2014
Darwins Stepchild wrote:
At a Catholic hospital in Ardmore, OK a receptionist expressed this opinion...
“How can she say atheist in front of these kids?! You shouldn’t be allowed to reproduce if that’s how you feel. That’s just my opinion.“
For more see...
http://www.patheos.com/blogs/friendlyatheist/...
...and the follow-up...
http://www.patheos.com/blogs/friendlyatheist/...
Obviously, all atheophobic bigotry comes from religion. In the West, that means Christianity. Who else is putting ideas like that in people's minds?

I have often read here and elsewhere that we unbelievers should just live and let live, meaning, stop denigrating the church. Does any theist posting think that we unbelievers don't have a right to push back and attempt to mitigate the damage the church does to us? Do you think that we should just accept it?

An effective rebuttal begins with pointing out the lie in the claim that Christianity is about love and the Golden Rule. Institutions and ideologies that actually embrace such lofty ideas don't teach people to think about atheists the way that the church and the Christian bible do.

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