Atheism requires as much faith as religion?

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Atheism requires as much faith as religion? bearvspuma : The only problem with this rationalization is that ita s assuming all athiests are so because theya re intelligent in the ways of science and reasoning and all people that believe in a form of god are unintelligent.

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“Today we pray”

Since: Jul 12

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#209843
Feb 1, 2014
 
Darwins Stepchild wrote:
<quoted text>
Not "virtually all". There are a small, but significant fraction that think Jesus never existed. They make some good arguments.
Certainly the myths about him, if he did exist, came from sources outside of Jewish culture.
Is that a certainty?

“Today we pray”

Since: Jul 12

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#209844
Feb 1, 2014
 
Darwins Stepchild wrote:
<quoted text>
Sorry, but you can't distinguish one from the other. What we call emotions have physical manifestations and those manifestations are caused by hormones. Thus it is quite unclear whether the emotions cause the hormones or the hormones ARE the emotions.
But at any rate, you claimed emotions could not be measured. Since hormones and emotions are inseparable, and we can measure the hormones, we can measure emotions.
AND we can measure the brain activity that goes along with emotions.
You lose. Again.
I like your self proclaimed victories. They're amusing.

No, emotions cannot be measured.

Prove me wrong.

“ The Lord of delirious minds.”

Since: Dec 10

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#209845
Feb 1, 2014
 
lightbeamrider wrote:
<quoted text>
----------
<quoted text> Sex orientation not included.
It sound like there is an assumption these human rights take effect backwards.
In other words these are human right which apply to all persons at all times, including the past.
Discrimination as you say applied to the ancients even their cultures did not see it that way.
This is claiming an objective moral standard based on a modern document. Still not seeing where this modern document applies to ancient cultures or even modern cultures if they are not consistently enforced. It is still a direct contradiction to your earlier statement that it is societies which determine morality for their cultures.
"Sex orientation not included."

In what way?

"It sound like there is an assumption these human rights take effect backwards.
In other words these are human right which apply to all persons at all times, including the past."

This only applies to now, this is universally accepted now and from it's writing forward, of course it maybe true in retrospect, but no one is going to charge a country for humasn rights violations that happened in the year 323 BC.

Societies in fact do determine morality for their culture.
I didn't say I agreed with what they thought were moral.
But I do agree with the document.
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#209846
Feb 1, 2014
 
Just Think wrote:
<quoted text>1. That is not a definition of "absolute moral standards." Try again.

2. So, unless everyone knows the full extant of all "absolute moral standards" and follows them completely and erringly, they cannot be moral? Is that what you're going with?

3. Which version of the Ten Commandments are you using?(This should be fun!)

4. That's an opinion, not a statement of fact. Try again.

And now, for some real fun!

As a follow up to my response #2 above, please tell us where we can find a full and complete agreed upon list of all of the absolute moral standards. If your answer is "the bible" - please list all chapters and verses.
Fail!!!
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#209847
Feb 1, 2014
 
Darwins Stepchild wrote:
<quoted text>What does this have to do with the price of tea in China?

lightbeamrider wrote, "
Do you want the right to criticize and not be criticized in return?
"

No. Where do you get the idea I have demanded to not be criticized?

lightbeamrider wrote, "
<quoted text> There is precedent for pederasty rights in ancient Greece. It was in part a exchange of services. The teacher would instruct in exchange for sexual services. So??? why was that wrong for them?"

Thank you for making my point that morals are not absolute.
Fail!
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#209848
Feb 1, 2014
 
Just Think wrote:
^ s/b unerringly in #2
Fail!
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#209849
Feb 1, 2014
 
Aura Mytha wrote:
<quoted text>We can only measure by what is morally acceptable today in our world.
So if Israelis were killing babies and taking slaves as well as murdering every last person in a city, you are thinking that is morally acceptable?
It wouldn't be now and for you and I it wouldn't have been then either.
Fail!
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#209850
Feb 1, 2014
 
It aint necessarily so wrote:
<quoted text>That's incorrect. Zeus came as a swan.

mtimber wrote, " God has provided every evidence required through the study of Scripture which reveals Jesus Christ as the Son of God."

Something seeded the earth with fossils, which is evidence that your bible is wrong. Your bible is evidence that your bible was written - nothing more.

mtimber wrote, "He has also giving you the internal witness of logic and sense of morality"

Yet he commands us to ignore them - to believe the absurd as truth and the cruel as moral. It is those twin faculties that allows us to break the bonds of faith and superstition.

mtimber wrote, "you have more than sufficient evidence the problem is that you do not wish to accept the evidence because that will mean changing the way you live your life."

You are evidence enough that your choices were wrong. You are living testimony to the risk of faith based thought.
Fail!

“Today we pray”

Since: Jul 12

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#209851
Feb 1, 2014
 
Tide with Beach wrote:

Jehovah is considered an erroneous transliteration of YHWH, which is a proper name.
By whom?

YHWH isn't a name at all.
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#209852
Feb 1, 2014
 
It aint necessarily so wrote:
No, the problem is your faith, because of which you consistently reject evidence and reason. You probably have no idea how you appear to others, even though you have been told repeatedly. People find your values abhorrent and your mannerisms evidence of defective development.

mtimber wrote, "It is not a matter of evidence it is a matter of warfare, you are at war with God, you are rebelling against him and that is why you will not accept any evidence or argument in His favour and you will avoid anything that even remotely seems to point to the evidence as a reality. "

That's not the battle being waged. We want your church out of the live of those who don't share its values or worldview. We want the Christian values that contradict those of humanism confined to the lives of those who choose to embrace them. We don't care what your church teaches about school prayer, science, unbelief, abortion, or same sex marriage, and we don't want it determining law or social policy based on those beliefs. Feel free to home teach your kids creationism starting with a prayer, and to refrain from gay marriage or abortion. That's the limit of your religious freedom.
Fail!
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#209853
Feb 1, 2014
 
Darwins Stepchild wrote:
Gotta love how mtimber points to lying as a moral absolute, then turns around and continually lies about what I have said.

I guess lying is morally OK when it is lying for Jesus.
Fail!

“Today we pray”

Since: Jul 12

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#209854
Feb 1, 2014
 
Tide with Beach wrote:

"Yahweh" is how most pronounce "YHWH".
Some still use "Jehovah", like Jehovah's Witless.


I know.

Which means "God's Witness".

“ The Lord of delirious minds.”

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#209856
Feb 1, 2014
 
lightbeamrider wrote:
<quoted text> If i as to go by evolution atheist standards i would have no objective basis to determine right and wrong for ancient standards. In those instances the strong survived and killed off the weak. Your modern document assumed equality for all persons. Is an infant born in dirt poor Africa equal to an infant born in rich America?
"evolution atheist standards"

Pure hogwash, there is no such thing.

"to determine right and wrong for ancient standards."

Is determined by current standards, if the past does not meet this criteria.
Then we can only say it was an inferior standard to what we have today.

"Your modern document assumed equality for all persons. Is an infant born in dirt poor Africa equal to an infant born in rich America?"

Absolutely, a child is a child and deserves the same rights as any other.
If you remember America has intervened because of human rights violations in many places.
But we cant go to war over every instance, but we have sent troops to show that we clearly object to human rights violations. We did in Kosovo and Somalia and it was partly the reason for the war in Afghanistan.

“I see quantum effects”

Since: Jan 11

In the macro world.

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#209858
Feb 1, 2014
 
RiversideRedneck wrote:
<quoted text>I know.

Which means "God's Witness".
Witless.

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#209859
Feb 1, 2014
 
EXPERT wrote:
<quoted text>
Fail!
That's deep, Annie Anonymous, really deep.

“Life may be sweeter for this”

Since: Nov 08

Fennario

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#209860
Feb 1, 2014
 
mtimber wrote:
I have a need to sleep.
I wonder.

“Life may be sweeter for this”

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#209861
Feb 1, 2014
 
It aint necessarily so wrote:
Christian, I think. He certainly has won the respect and affection of just about the whole thread. What more does one need to witness to appreciate the stultifying effect of faith in some people? Satisfied that all answers lie in faith, that one stopped learning and thinking long ago.
mtimber wrote:
You expect me to be popular when I oppose your position?
You haven't repulsed the thread with your beliefs. It's your mannerisms.

“Life may be sweeter for this”

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#209862
Feb 1, 2014
 
mtimber wrote:
You obviously consider my discussion morally reprehensible in some way, upon what moral basis do you condemn it?
I've already told you repeatedly. So have several others. It's not for you to understand. You'll have to be content with that.

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#209863
Feb 1, 2014
 
Darwins Stepchild wrote:
<quoted text>
What does this have to do with the price of tea in China?
<quoted text>
No. Where do you get the idea I have demanded to not be criticized?
<quoted text>
Thank you for making my point that morals are not absolute.
Will comment on your last statement. Here is the context.
----------

lightbeamrider wrote:
<quoted text> There is precedent for pederasty rights in ancient Greece. It was in part a exchange of services. The teacher would instruct in exchange for sexual services. So??? why was that wrong for them?
----------
So you are saying pederasty was right for ancient Greece? Neutral? Wrong? I do not see where you answered my explicit question. Your answer is evasive.

“Life may be sweeter for this”

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#209864
Feb 1, 2014
 
It aint necessarily so wrote:
If he is human, he has had his human spark extinguished. It is really quite shocking and dispiriting.
mtimber wrote:
Implied in this is anyone who isn't an atheist is not human.
Nope. You're the only one here whose organicity is being questioned.
mtimber wrote:
If I do not agree with you I am subhuman. If I present a different perspective than yours I am subhuman.
Wrong again. It's not your opinions that call your humanity into question. It's your mechanistic behavior.
mtimber wrote:
This is just a veiled version of ad hominem trying to reduce the other person by attacking their character so that your argument can stand.
Where have I questioned your character? Have I called you a thief, liar, coward, traitor, or any such thing related to character? Nope.

What I question is your intellect and soul. You seem like a simple program.
mtimber wrote:
Do you have anything other than ad hominem to present? Might I ask you to stop being so intellectually lazy?
I have nothing to offer you but evidence, cogent argument, and advise.

Do you have anything to offer apart from the one repeatedly answered question based on the rejected values and assumptions that you have asked about 200 times now? If not, prepare for more condemnation from those that don't just ignore you. You know this already, but don't seem to care.

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