Why Hard-Line Religionism Is Toxic

[Fish]

Hi Wheezy. Welcome.

Hey Ocean et al. I just got home from a party and it's 1:45 in the morning. Thought I'd browse around for a few minutes before hitting the sack.

Catch y'all later.

[Fish]

Ocean56 wrote:

<quoted text>
Nope, just note each new step names that you propose, the category (dance/non-dance) and the suggested description. I'll keep updating the list, and will post a new update once a week. If you need an update earlier than that, let me know.:-)

Nope. Your way is great :)

[bloodyvisigoths]

Wheezy wrote:

<quoted text>
Hmmm, that one reminds me of the moonwalk......
:D

Hiya Wheezy! Long time--I'm glad you made it here! How the hell are ya?

[wade]

Bob of Quantum-Faith wrote:

!!!!!
I just read of a New Descriptive term:
Fractal Wrongness. It's a beaut.
From http://www.cs.washington.edu/homes/klee/misc/...
>>>>>>> >>>>>>> >>>>>>> >>>>>>> >>>>>>> >>
fractal wrongness
The state of being wrong at every conceivable scale of resolution. That is, from a distance, a fractally wrong person's worldview is incorrect; and furthermore, if you zoom in on any small part of that person's worldview, that part is just as wrong as the whole worldview.
Debating with a person who is fractally wrong leads to infinite regress, as every refutation you make of that person's opinions will lead to a rejoinder, full of half-truths, leaps of logic, and outright lies, that requires just as much refutation to debunk as the first one. It is as impossible to convince a fractally wrong person of anything as it is to walk around the edge of the Mandelbrot set in finite time.
If you ever get embroiled in a discussion with a fractally wrong person on the Internet--in mailing lists, newsgroups, or website forums--your best bet is to say your piece once and ignore any replies, thus saving yourself time.

I have never heard the term fractal wrongness. Thank you for sharing.

I started to wonder is it: fractal religious wrongness, or is it religious fractal wrongness, but I was unable to make up my mind.

[Ocean56]

Fish wrote:

Hi Wheezy. Welcome.
Hey Ocean et al. I just got home from a party and it's 1:45 in the morning. Thought I'd browse around for a few minutes before hitting the sack.
Catch y'all later.

Looks like you were the night owl this time. Hope the party was fun.:-) I crashed early last night, shortly after 10pm. I'll be online for a couple of hours, then off until later this evening. Have a great day, everybody!

[Ocean56]

Just wanted to share this with you all, from the "Prove there's a god" thread.
**********

Think About It wrote:
If we could prove that there was a God then we wouldn't need any religion, now would we? It's all part of the Big Game, now isn't it? People need to believe in something to keep them going and give them purpose in life, and if that "something" is both reachable and touchable then it would defeat the whole point. And if we could prove that God existed, then what would we do next? I think I know. We would just create some other abstract, unreachable entity just to keep us going. It's only human nature.

Ocean56's response:
That's just the point, we (mankind as a whole) DON'T need a religion, most people have just been indoctrinated (by their church 'leaders') into BELIEVING that we do. That indoctrination only serves the CHURCH and its so-called 'leaders'(dictators would be far more accurate to describe them), not the people who have been shamelessly conned by those leaders.

As for believing in something, there's absolutely nothing wrong with believing in mankind as a whole, and our ability to do better and help more people on earth, WITHOUT the toxic baggage of gods, religions and churches to poison everything.

Religions, particularly the hard-line ones like catholicism, conservative christianity and islam, have done more than enough damage to this planet and its people. What I'd love to see are even more people realizing that, and deciding they also can do much better WITHOUT it.

S.I.N.= Self Inflicted NONSENSE

[FundieSmacker]

Ocean56 wrote:

Just wanted to share this with you all, from the "Prove there's a god" thread.
**********
Think About It wrote:
If we could prove that there was a God then we wouldn't need any religion, now would we? It's all part of the Big Game, now isn't it? People need to believe in something to keep them going and give them purpose in life, and if that "something" is both reachable and touchable then it would defeat the whole point. And if we could prove that God existed, then what would we do next? I think I know. We would just create some other abstract, unreachable entity just to keep us going. It's only human nature.
Ocean56's response:
That's just the point, we (mankind as a whole) DON'T need a religion, most people have just been indoctrinated (by their church 'leaders') into BELIEVING that we do. That indoctrination only serves the CHURCH and its so-called 'leaders'(dictators would be far more accurate to describe them), not the people who have been shamelessly conned by those leaders.
As for believing in something, there's absolutely nothing wrong with believing in mankind as a whole, and our ability to do better and help more people on earth, WITHOUT the toxic baggage of gods, religions and churches to poison everything.
Religions, particularly the hard-line ones like catholicism, conservative christianity and islam, have done more than enough damage to this planet and its people. What I'd love to see are even more people realizing that, and deciding they also can do much better WITHOUT it.
S.I.N.= Self Inflicted NONSENSE

Terrific post Ocean! Thank you. Happy church free Sunday!

[short_b]

FundieSmacker wrote:

<quoted text>
Terrific post Ocean! Thank you. Happy church free Sunday!

Yes indeed, excellent post Ocean. Happy Lazy Sunday to all!

[Ocean56]

Thanks, folks, I will. Although I'm disappointed that it looks like we'll once again have rain, when it was such a gorgeous sunny day yesterday. UGH. I absolutely hate driving in it, and I have to make two trips, to pick up DS and drive back. Oh well. We'll still have a great church-free Sunday, rain or shine.:-)

Gotta go. Will check back later this evening. Enjoy, everybody.

:D

[James]

This topic isn't about religion its about sex. Sex perversion is the favorite topic of non religous. Life is bigger than sex so get your heads out of the gutter.

The HARDEST line Jesus took was on, Love God with your whole mind soul and strength; and love your neigbor as your self.

[ImAnEvilCarrot]

James wrote:

This topic isn't about religion its about sex. Sex perversion is the favorite topic of non religous. Life is bigger than sex so get your heads out of the gutter.
The HARDEST line Jesus took was on, Love God with your whole mind soul and strength; and love your neigbor as your self.

Oh really? The non-religious? Sort of like all those catholic priests. Or like the one that just happened in the last day or so, the good religious baptist minister, driving 200 miles to meet a 13 year old girl. Perversions, you say?

http://www.wkrg.com/news/article/minister_arr...

[Fish]

On the Should Creationism be Taught in School thread, I mentioned I was Catholic most of my life (now in my early 40's) and have only been agnostic for the last four or five years. In Buddha we Trust said "What too you so long." I made a tongue-in-cheek reply something like: "The walls corraling the sheep are quite thick. It took me a long time to drill through!" (metaphor for shedding years of brainwashing)

Anyway, someone spammed up my comment with their judge icons. I don't put stock in them necessarily but it can sometimes be a little irking that someone uses them instead of responding. There's something cowardly about it, not to mention that I owed nobody an explanation about my timeline.

I sometimes use the judge icons myself but I always post a comment when I do so.

Checking in for a few minutes, then off to my nephew's birthday party.

[ImAnEvilCarrot]

Fish wrote:

I sometimes use the judge icons myself but I always post a comment when I do so.

I've only used the judge icons a couple of times, when they first showed up. I just cannot warm up to them. I did give someone a brilliant earlier today, but I commented on it, just as you do.

[bloodyvisigoths]

James wrote:

This topic isn't about religion its about sex. Sex perversion is the favorite topic of non religous.

The only reason why sex perversion is so frequently discussed by the non-religious is because they see and hear so much of it being committed by the religious, whether they're Catholic priests who are reassigned different parishes when they get caught, or the plethora of television evangelists who get caught in cheap motels with even cheaper hookers.

A big Clueless icon for you, scooter.

[Ken]

SHAREING MY THOUGHTS/BELIEFS: I believe, God has made us ALL in His likeness, and because of this I believe we ALL have a Spiritual side (able to reason Spiritually is a GIFT FROM GOD); we would be foolish and in denial to believe otherwise. The human side is also a gift from GOD, I sometimes feel that there are TIMES (NOT ALL THE TIME) that this side is controlled by satan (the light is turned on by the story of Adam And Eve); this side becomes CONFUSED, ABUSIVE and VIOLENT because of our logic or maybe I should say lack of Spiritual and logical. Please refer to this true/logical explanation; make no mistake this happens and we would be in denial and foolish to believe otherwise:

http://www.drdrew.com/Topics/article.asp...

We sometimes ALLOW our own fears and insecurities to take control, WHY? WE ALL HAVE TO COMPLETELY PUT OUR TRUST AND FAITH IN GOD and in ourselves. There are Christians (of ALL religious teachings) and non-believers (of religious teachings) that both believe in GOD but become confused for whatever reason. I truly believe none of us can change another human being but we can change our own thoughts and our own actions; when we try to change others it can become cruel and abusive. We ALL seem to know what is good and bad. I sometimes say, "Experience, pain and suffering is what we get when we do and don't get what we want". I believe the truths we ALL seek are in all of us; listen and focus in life and most especially to GOD (He shows us the way every day).

Please don't misunderstand I do believe in GOD with my whole heart, mind and soul. I do make mistakes; we All have our own cross to bear. During my life I stumbled and I fell, there was a time that I said aloud, "God why have you forsaken me" and it was not long after that that I finally realized He never left my side, He was always there. I still stumble and fall, but GOD is there to help pick me pick myself back up so I can begin again to walk in a straight line on my journey; HE LOVES US SO MUCH HE TEACHES US ONLY TO LOVE and FORGIVE. It is up to us to choose (FREE WILL) what paths we walk; God may choose the paths we see, but we choose the path. It seems, AT TIMES, we ALL need to begin again to realize all GOD wants from us is to LOVE and FORGIVE ourselves and one another as He has taught us so we can join Him in heaven; this is our choice (FREE WILL).

I feel the anti-Christ person is in a category all by them self (hardened hearts instead), hardened hearts have no place in heaven. It seems all we can do is pray for them; the Lord will deal with those who choose not to listen "Woe unto them".

Protection from ALL evil in any area of our life can be found in reading Psalm 91 aloud. Satan can NOT read your mind (he leads a person to believe he can) but he can hear the word. Scripture was spoken aloud to satan by Christ in the wilderness for every temptation, satan fled.

I sometimes feel GOD would tell us, "I only need a few who pray and fast....for it only takes very little of My Holy Spirit to defeat All of the evil spirit".

[Writing in Paradise]

James wrote:

This topic isn't about religion its about sex. Sex perversion is the favorite topic of non religous. Life is bigger than sex so get your heads out of the gutter.
The HARDEST line Jesus took was on, Love God with your whole mind soul and strength; and love your neigbor as your self.

The reason is that the fanatically religious endlessly preach sexual morality and then get caught being sexually immoral.

[Bob of Quantum-Faith]

Fish wrote:

<quoted text>
You liberated yourself with the light of reason and fact!

I did-- but it took years to cast off the final trappings of belief as a "way of life" and embrace rationalism and logic.

[Bob of Quantum-Faith]

Saranacotter wrote:

<quoted text>Had an AOE GF who brought me to a service of theirs. I really do not like watching grown people wiggling on the floor babbling gibberish. I know it is supposed to be uncontrolled but those I saw doing it were faking it as far as I am concerned.

Faking insofar as a hypnotized person is faking.

They really do work themselves up into a kind of mental state-- and this (and similar) states have been documented.

Obviously, not everyone was so "blessed" and was just plain mimicking their peers.

And peer-pressure was immense, in that cult.

I'm well rid of it all. I pity anyone still mired in such thinking...

[Bob of Quantum-Faith]

Fish wrote:

<quoted text>
My youngest sister and her son take karate together. She told me that a karate master came in for a demonstration recently and gave an interesting talk. He said one of the tricks of the "faith healers" that we see on television is to know where the pressure points are. Some of them study martial arts, grab the pressure point a certain way and cause the "victim" to actually collapse, giving everyone the impression he/she was overcome by the Lord and healed. I thought that was interesting and it is just one more bullet in their chamber of fraud, deceit and sleeze, preying on the ignorant and gullible.
Of course, many are also accounted for by "victims" who are good actors. Or bad, depending on one's perspective.
You see? One can find a logical explanation for many things, fundies.

Some use pressure points-- most just use peer pressure.

Couple with the intense desire for SOME relief from the people "volunteering" for the "healing" lines-- a mind can work itself up into a kind of trance, if conditions are right.

Mostly, though, it's just peer pressure-- the first one or two in the line to be "healed" are likely regulars who know the drill, and quite willing to go along with the "play".

The follow-ons would not wish to be different, and so fall in line with the drill. Anyone who fails to fall, is so severely chastised as being "demon possessed" or worse, that the peer pressure really is intense. Few would have the strength to violate it--unless they are there to "break" the game.

But that rarely happens-- the gate keepers are good at weeding out such gate-crashers.

It's really all a sham, a big carnival show. But, it is so deeply tied with emotions that anyone even slightly willing, is easily overcome.

[Bob of Quantum-Faith]

Ocean56 wrote:

Just wanted to share this with you all, from the "Prove there's a god" thread.
**********
Think About It wrote:
If we could prove that there was a God then we wouldn't need any religion, now would we? It's all part of the Big Game, now isn't it? People need to believe in something to keep them going and give them purpose in life, and if that "something" is both reachable and touchable then it would defeat the whole point. And if we could prove that God existed, then what would we do next? I think I know. We would just create some other abstract, unreachable entity just to keep us going. It's only human nature.
Ocean56's response:
That's just the point, we (mankind as a whole) DON'T need a religion, most people have just been indoctrinated (by their church 'leaders') into BELIEVING that we do. That indoctrination only serves the CHURCH and its so-called 'leaders'(dictators would be far more accurate to describe them), not the people who have been shamelessly conned by those leaders.
As for believing in something, there's absolutely nothing wrong with believing in mankind as a whole, and our ability to do better and help more people on earth, WITHOUT the toxic baggage of gods, religions and churches to poison everything.
Religions, particularly the hard-line ones like catholicism, conservative christianity and islam, have done more than enough damage to this planet and its people. What I'd love to see are even more people realizing that, and deciding they also can do much better WITHOUT it.
S.I.N.= Self Inflicted NONSENSE

Excellent.