Why I’m no longer a Christian
Black Thunder 42

Albuquerque, NM

#470221 Dec 16, 2014
Barnsweb wrote:
<quoted text>
I'll agree that we are to become new - a new creation as we allow Jesus (Yahshua) to enlighten our pathway of life, but it is we who have to want to change - to repent to do as He called "the will of God." Jesus taught and exampled proper interpretation and application of the gracious instruction on God. Jesus upheld the Torah to the least commandment, and taught that His disciples are to do likewise. God never said right is wrong, or wrong is right - nor did any prophet or apostle of God or the Christ, who is our Savior. Jesus plainly taught it is we who have to repent and start growing in obedience to God that is caused because of our belief and faith that He is who He said He is, and that His teachings are the Doctrine of God.
Those of God come to Him to know that what they do is done of God. Jesus never said we are saved by grace, through faith, and not of works that any man would boast. The only person in Scripture that boasted about what they did is Paul. And strangely, it is Paul who said salvation is of grace and not of works, which absolutely contradicts the words of God and the Christ.
Rome put Paul into the New Testament about 300 years after the fact. The Church of God at Jerusalem rejected Paul - did you know that? In fact, the original heresy was to take what Paul said above what Jesus plainly taught the truth of God to be. Look up some historical accounts of Marcion. Marcion is who gave us Paul's writings. God gave instruction in Deut. 4, 12, 13 and 18 for all history - the criteria He commands us to use to know who speaks for Him and who does not. Jesus passed the exams, as did the original disciples. However, Paul and all his disciples didn't.
So are we to be judged by the words of Jesus Christ, as He plainly taught?
or
Will all men be judged by the gospel Paul preached?
What did Jesus say? What did Paul say?
Who should we believe if our love is first and foremost for God - the greatest commandment?
jesuswordsonly.com
onediscipletoanother.org
Nothing against the teachings of the great sage Jesus here....but your deity has changed his name so many times in the book you call "holy" alone, no one knows who the "REAL" deity really is.
PTAH never had to change his writings or identity to his followers....oh, BTW - most "all" of your so called Abrahamic "basic(core)" sayings and laws came from the ancient words of PTAH- including Proverbs and the "positive" "Laws of Maat"(which were abbreviated into the "negative" 10 commandments) by the [writer(s)] of "Moses"....who was also a repeat of two "earlier" stories preceding the Hebrew refabricated/reconstituted accounts of preceding history.
Barnsweb

Canton, OH

#470222 Dec 16, 2014
Black Thunder 42 wrote:
<quoted text>
Nothing against the teachings of the great sage Jesus here....but your deity has changed his name so many times in the book you call "holy" alone, no one knows who the "REAL" deity really is.
PTAH never had to change his writings or identity to his followers....oh, BTW - most "all" of your so called Abrahamic "basic(core)" sayings and laws came from the ancient words of PTAH- including Proverbs and the "positive" "Laws of Maat"(which were abbreviated into the "negative" 10 commandments) by the [writer(s)] of "Moses"....who was also a repeat of two "earlier" stories preceding the Hebrew refabricated/reconstituted accounts of preceding history.
Having not studied Maat, I have no idea about that, and I doubt that God didn't speak to men about what is good or evil until Moses. The focus on Moses' account has been my study. The ancient Hebrew text also contains hidden codes recently discovered that indicate what Moses wrote was not of his own doing - even though he was schooled in Egyptian knowledge.
Black Thunder 42

Albuquerque, NM

#470223 Dec 16, 2014
Barnsweb wrote:
<quoted text>
Having not studied Maat, I have no idea about that, and I doubt that God didn't speak to men about what is good or evil until Moses. The focus on Moses' account has been my study. The ancient Hebrew text also contains hidden codes recently discovered that indicate what Moses wrote was not of his own doing - even though he was schooled in Egyptian knowledge.
Indeed.
"Moses" was a "title"...and a high Egyptian priest....the amalgamation of several characters of history. Good wishes from myself to your person in your quest for "truth" in the [actuality] concerning history and religion....you will need it.
Dolphin

Pulborough, UK

#470224 Dec 17, 2014
mike wrote:
<quoted text>
Thanks for the reply
" born-again " , is that mind conditioning ?
GOD is a concept , your" born again " is a promise to never think for yourself again .

I agree "born again" is a way of saying leave one sect and join mine. Jesus is reported to say "believe in Me" He means follow my teaching and do not discriminate against other Jews with disabilities or who work in unclean professions . The other Jews believed the former were not allowed to practice Judaism because they were unclean or uncleanable. Remember ritual washing is a big thing for Jews even today.

The next jump of faith which gentile Xtians naively believe is all Church tradition made up later. Jesus is likened to the sun or Lugh in the druid tradition. The druid year is divided in to three seasons. Winter, Spring and Summer. Jesus is born on the shortest day Christmas. In february Lugh (the Sun) is a teenager and Winter and Spring go head to head. Lugh defeats Balor or Winter and Spring is declared. In that sense the youthful sun is the "Saviour" of the world. He restores the world and is born again. Only after he marries the Earth and life is created he become the father until Fall. You have to realise Son and SUN are the same word like God and GOOD. Fall is likened to the Crucifixion when the sun is blood coloured, it hardly rises and glides above the trees.

There is doubt Jesus ever existed historically. Accepting that he did most of what the Church claims as a "faith" has been made up by Church philosophers either to make the religion popular to pagans in Rome or to escape illogicalities in doctrine. Everyone in the West has been raised in a kind of Taliban or Ayatullah state they accept the myths they are told because the alternative arguments are suppressed. The Churches own Theologians have debunked Xtianity without outside help after Muslim clerics in C19th raised many issues. The New Testament has since been revised and some verses have been struck out at that time or as Church Theologians have realised errors in transmission and translation.

However we have still to beare the ostridge like people who refuse to realise the game is up.

Supposing god exists, is not Jesus's life a contorted way to get his or her way over.
Dolphin

Pulborough, UK

#470225 Dec 17, 2014
duststorm wrote:
<quoted text>Therefore, if any man be in Christ, he is a new creature; old things are passed away. Behold, all things are become new. II Corinthians 5:17
No man can drag himself up from his degraded circumstance. It is Jesus who plucks us out of the miry clay and sets our foot upon the solid rock.
You cannot go around quoting verses of the NT that were written centuries after Jesus by bishops who had a vested interest in increasing their income from converts. Remember these texts have been annotated and on occasions these marginal notes have found their way in the main text. It make the whole NT an unreliable document.
Barnsweb

Canton, OH

#470226 Dec 17, 2014
Black Thunder 42 wrote:
<quoted text>
Indeed.
"Moses" was a "title"...and a high Egyptian priest....the amalgamation of several characters of history. Good wishes from myself to your person in your quest for "truth" in the [actuality] concerning history and religion....you will need it.
Thanks. So far as I can tell, I've been finding all I was looking for in the records of the teachings of Jesus (Yahshua) from Matthew and John - excluding the known additions and also study into the ancient Aramaic records for Matthew and John and Revelation.

Most "Christians" don't have a clue about what he really taught, as they are told to believe Paul, who taught to disregard the instructions of God and Yahshua.

It hasn't been easy to weed through the issues, but I think it's pretty easy, once I realized Paul was a liar and blowviator;-)

onediscipletoanother.org
Dolphin

Pulborough, UK

#470227 Dec 18, 2014
Barnsweb wrote:
<quoted text>
I'll agree that we are to become new - a new creation as we allow Jesus (Yahshua) to enlighten our pathway of life, but it is we who have to want to change - to repent to do as He called "the will of God." Jesus taught and exampled proper interpretation and application of the gracious instruction on God. Jesus upheld the Torah to the least commandment, and taught that His disciples are to do likewise. God never said right is wrong, or wrong is right - nor did any prophet or apostle of God or the Christ, who is our Savior. Jesus plainly taught it is we who have to repent and start growing in obedience to God that is caused because of our belief and faith that He is who He said He is, and that His teachings are the Doctrine of God.
Those of God come to Him to know that what they do is done of God. Jesus never said we are saved by grace, through faith, and not of works that any man would boast. The only person in Scripture that boasted about what they did is Paul. And strangely, it is Paul who said salvation is of grace and not of works, which absolutely contradicts the words of God and the Christ.
Rome put Paul into the New Testament about 300 years after the fact. The Church of God at Jerusalem rejected Paul - did you know that? In fact, the original heresy was to take what Paul said above what Jesus plainly taught the truth of God to be. Look up some historical accounts of Marcion. Marcion is who gave us Paul's writings. God gave instruction in Deut. 4, 12, 13 and 18 for all history - the criteria He commands us to use to know who speaks for Him and who does not. Jesus passed the exams, as did the original disciples. However, Paul and all his disciples didn't.
So are we to be judged by the words of Jesus Christ, as He plainly taught?
or
Will all men be judged by the gospel Paul preached?
What did Jesus say? What did Paul say?
Who should we believe if our love is first and foremost for God - the greatest commandment?
jesuswordsonly.com
onediscipletoanother.org
Why did Paul found Christianity and not Jesus, He was Jesus's greatest enemy and would he not first wish to derail the faith by converting gentiles, something Jesus forbade. Mary was a far greater apostle and has been written out because of Roman misandrist attitudes. As for Peter he was called the Rock because he was always wavering.

We have more reliable evidence that the Ebionites or Nazarenes an entirely Jewish sect were the successors of Jesus and his brothers led this faction. Most of Xtianity is Church Tradition and is not historically underpinned. Even the NT crucifixion is a has no conclusive evidence Jesus died we have far more evidence Jesus travelled east in search of the Lost Tribes. If he had not he could not have fulfilled his mission as Messiah. http://www.tombofjesus.com/

As for the leadership of Rome that is based on a minor patriarch persuading Atilla to not sack Rome, Historically Christianity was based in Istanbul with the support of the other patriarchs in Alexandria, Jerusalem and Antioch. The myth of papal leadership is an illusion. Even the word Pope is a pagan title for the chief priest of Rome whereas the church was based in the Greek speaking world.
Dolphin

Pulborough, UK

#470228 Dec 18, 2014
Black Thunder 42 wrote:
<quoted text>
Indeed.
"Moses" was a "title"...and a high Egyptian priest....the amalgamation of several characters of history. Good wishes from myself to your person in your quest for "truth" in the [actuality] concerning history and religion....you will need it.
Thanks an intelligent person. The Qur'an which censors the OT and NT says that the followers of Abraham and Moses are a religious tradition and not a race. The Jews make false claims in this matter. Physiologically Jews look more like Egyptians than the pastoralist Hurrians (Syrians) who Abraham was derived. Moses arrives on the scene soon after the restoration of traditional religion. It seems clear to me that a section of Atan worshipers did not believe they should religious monuments to false gods and the Pharaoh. This was not slavery but it must have felt so to this group. Is it any wonder the Hebrews escaped to practise their own faith the way they wanted. Their genocidal behaviour after that I do not approve.

To believe God to be in human form and one minor incident in an insignificant territory in the Levant is no basis to found a belief system. Something we have no direct evidence of and what evidence is firm we ignore like Jesus's migration to the Hindu Cush. Because Xtianity is PrIest Based we have to be aware it is in their benefit to make stories up for their own benefit.
The Joker

Mesquite, NV

#470229 Dec 18, 2014
DearthOfCouth wrote:
Why should you care in the slightest about my religious views?
I cannot possibly imagine.
Several people on topix, though, in the wake of various postings I’ve made on religious subjects, have asked me for an explanation of just how I arrived at my present agnosticism, or atheism, or whatever it is. So rather than answering these various people individually I’ve elected to start this forum and direct the interested parties here.
What follows is nothing more or less than a summary of my personal experiences as a Christian, related about as honestly as I know how to do it. I’m not hoping for contributions, followers, or enlightenment, and I don’t claim it to be momentous or universal or significant to anyone but me. But it is genuine.
Dearth of Couth
You appear to be a crybaby liberal and blaming all your problems on everybody else. Get a life!
Michael the Archangel

Phoenix, AZ

#470230 Dec 18, 2014
DearthOfCouth wrote:
Why should you care in the slightest about my religious views?
I cannot possibly imagine.
Several people on topix, though, in the wake of various postings I’ve made on religious subjects, have asked me for an explanation of just how I arrived at my present agnosticism, or atheism, or whatever it is. So rather than answering these various people individually I’ve elected to start this forum and direct the interested parties here.
What follows is nothing more or less than a summary of my personal experiences as a Christian, related about as honestly as I know how to do it. I’m not hoping for contributions, followers, or enlightenment, and I don’t claim it to be momentous or universal or significant to anyone but me. But it is genuine.
Dearth of Couth
Stop whining Lucifer. You just want to blame all your problems all on someone else.
It's your own fault, Father rejected you.
Now you want to go and smash all his toys and hurt his humans.
But your day is coming.
You will be done away with FOREVER!

“The future begins”

Since: Jul 07

every moment

#470231 Dec 18, 2014
duststorm wrote:
<quoted text>By the works of the law there shall no flesh be justified. The ana-baptists were against infant baptism. The ana-baptists were descended from the earliest followers of Christ, the 120 in the upper room.
We Baptists never were inside the papal hierarchy. We know that Peter was not the first pope. He was married, had a mother-in-law, and was crucified upside down by your Roman bunch. He asked to be crucified upside down as he did not wish to elevate himself to the level of his Lord Christ Jesus.
We Baptists do not believe in an infallible Pope as you do. We never baptized 3-month-olds, we never eat a wafer and pretend it is the literal body of Jesus, we rely upon the shed blood of Christ to save us. We are already saved, born again.
The question is when are you going to be saved, born again, and have your salvation guaranteed for all eternity like me?
Gotta love a good ol' fashioned Christian slug-fest. Show 'em that unity in Christ!

“The future begins”

Since: Jul 07

every moment

#470232 Dec 18, 2014
Michael the Archangel wrote:
<quoted text>Stop whining Lucifer. You just want to blame all your problems all on someone else.
It's your own fault, Father rejected you.
Now you want to go and smash all his toys and hurt his humans.
But your day is coming.
You will be done away with FOREVER!
>grin<

DoC would be amused to know that the supply of batsh!t crazee bleevers shows no sign of abating and still care so gawdam much.

A dram in your honor tonite, D!
Barnsweb

Canton, OH

#470233 Dec 19, 2014
Dolphin wrote:
<quoted text>
Why did Paul found Christianity and not Jesus, He was Jesus's greatest enemy and would he not first wish to derail the faith by converting gentiles, something Jesus forbade. Mary was a far greater apostle and has been written out because of Roman misandrist attitudes. As for Peter he was called the Rock because he was always wavering.
We have more reliable evidence that the Ebionites or Nazarenes an entirely Jewish sect were the successors of Jesus and his brothers led this faction. Most of Xtianity is Church Tradition and is not historically underpinned. Even the NT crucifixion is a has no conclusive evidence Jesus died we have far more evidence Jesus travelled east in search of the Lost Tribes. If he had not he could not have fulfilled his mission as Messiah. http://www.tombofjesus.com/
As for the leadership of Rome that is based on a minor patriarch persuading Atilla to not sack Rome, Historically Christianity was based in Istanbul with the support of the other patriarchs in Alexandria, Jerusalem and Antioch. The myth of papal leadership is an illusion. Even the word Pope is a pagan title for the chief priest of Rome whereas the church was based in the Greek speaking world.
Sorry, but taking the witnesses evidence and telling of His message, comparing it to what was prophesied, and also looking into the early evidence of the DSS, Damascus Scrolls, ancient texts that survived in the East and Egypt and Africa - to date I have found no good reason to believe the viewpoint you expressed has enough support to sway me from the evidence that says otherwise.

I'll check out the link you provided and see if there is good reason, or just another good story.

God gave instruction of how we are to know who speaks for Him and who doesn't, and it leads back to the Torah - His gracious instructions in righteousness.

My personal take is that Rome hated Christ - the King of the Jews - and unfaithful Jewish leaders were forced to demand His death over that one issue - or Rome would have likely put them on the crosses. It was a minority of Israel that called for His death... only a hundred or so people could have fit in the area where this took place, and it was the middle of the night, or about so.

Rome persecuted Christians - the Jewish Romanized leadership persecuted Christians - this lead to murdering Christians (of which Paul was partner in by his own admission), destruction of texts, and all manner of evils - once again initiated against those who dared to reject Roman authority in the paganized Church of Rome. So few texts have survived, and it's my opinion that one has to study pre-200 Church history to get at the fact that the conflicting sprouter of lies was busily infecting the faith with lies from about 50 AD (Paul).
Barnsweb

Canton, OH

#470234 Dec 19, 2014
I tried the link - note the late date these theories are noted. Also note that one has to assume Jesus didn't die on the cross. The supporting videos and such didn't come up with supporting evidence, and even one on the "lost" or "missing" tribes of Israel didn't exist at the link provided.

No reason there.

Here's some of what I've discovered so far:

onediscipletoanother.org
Barnsweb

Canton, OH

#470235 Dec 19, 2014
Dolphin wrote:
<quoted text>
Thanks an intelligent person. The Qur'an which censors the OT and NT says that the followers of Abraham and Moses are a religious tradition and not a race. The Jews make false claims in this matter. Physiologically Jews look more like Egyptians than the pastoralist Hurrians (Syrians) who Abraham was derived. Moses arrives on the scene soon after the restoration of traditional religion. It seems clear to me that a section of Atan worshipers did not believe they should religious monuments to false gods and the Pharaoh. This was not slavery but it must have felt so to this group. Is it any wonder the Hebrews escaped to practise their own faith the way they wanted. Their genocidal behaviour after that I do not approve.
To believe God to be in human form and one minor incident in an insignificant territory in the Levant is no basis to found a belief system. Something we have no direct evidence of and what evidence is firm we ignore like Jesus's migration to the Hindu Cush. Because Xtianity is PrIest Based we have to be aware it is in their benefit to make stories up for their own benefit.
Then we have that nasty thing we call the Zodiac that was basis for the ancient 'gods'. It's actually a prophecy of Master Yahshua and His work to redeem mankind by paying 'the price deficient'. He is the dual natured (human and divine) that defeats the serpent of old and gives life to His own, and also returns for His own in the good ship Argo.

Christian roots go all the way back to the Zodiac - found in ancient Egypt and before - so far back as any record of humanity has been discovered - and as recently re-discovered in "The Gospel of the Stars" by Joseph Seiss.

That's where you should be looking for ancient roots to the original faith of mankind.

“let's do this thang!”

Since: Aug 10

Location hidden

#470236 Dec 19, 2014
HipGnosis wrote:
<quoted text>>grin<
DoC would be amused to know that the supply of batsh!t crazee bleevers shows no sign of abating and still care so gawdam much.
A dram in your honor tonite, D!
right about now i'm sure DoC wishes he would have been one of them believers who he made it his life's work to mock.....
foothillbilly

Mount Vernon, OH

#470238 Dec 19, 2014
Barnsweb wrote:
<quoted text>
Thanks. So far as I can tell, I've been finding all I was looking for in the records of the teachings of Jesus (Yahshua) from Matthew and John - excluding the known additions and also study into the ancient Aramaic records for Matthew and John and Revelation.
Most "Christians" don't have a clue about what he really taught, as they are told to believe Paul, who taught to disregard the instructions of God and Yahshua.
It hasn't been easy to weed through the issues, but I think it's pretty easy, once I realized Paul was a liar and blowviator;-)
onediscipletoanother.org
I subscribed to this thread for amusement rather than enlightenment, but I'll make the point that Saul of Tarsus (Paul) is my least favorite Christian of all time. The Christ of the four synoptic Gospels at at worst harmless and at best wise. Saul of Tarsus attacked everything he could see.
joe

Lake Charles, LA

#470239 Dec 19, 2014
NatureLover wrote:
That was a very well thought out testimony. I understand how you feel. I too was baptised, first as an infant in the Catholic church, then being dunked under water in my young adulthood in a Baptist church and finally in an Evangelical church. I too never felt any different or special. I never felt comfortable in any church or gathering among Christians and decided that if I would communicate with my Creator, it would be in my back yard or in the woods or beach where I could enjoy the wonders of nature. I've always tried to believe in the promise of Jesus because the words attributed to Him are very wise. I just never felt any power of the Holy Spirit in the way that most Christians proclaimed they did. Maybe because I'm a skeptic at heart. My older sister is a bible thumping born-again Christian and we butt heads all the time. Her faith is blind and accepting of all. I question everything, maybe too much.
Have you wondered why you do not fit in ?? Why in this world you are an outcast?? Why even as far back as elementary YOU we're not part of this world ,,.:?? It's simply !!! JESUS SAID that be not part of this world nor the things that are in it ??? But the world says to conform to it ,''? Jesus said any man who is a friend . Of this world is an enemy unto GOD ??? He said forsaken all and fill o w . Me !!
Haji Muhammad Abdullah

Jakarta, Indonesia

#470240 Dec 19, 2014
Do you really believe that few men could kill GOD on the cross?

Do you really believe that our sins had disapeared because few men could kill GOD on the cross?

BULL SHIT
Barnsweb

Canton, OH

#470241 Dec 20, 2014
foothillbilly wrote:
<quoted text>
I subscribed to this thread for amusement rather than enlightenment, but I'll make the point that Saul of Tarsus (Paul) is my least favorite Christian of all time. The Christ of the four synoptic Gospels at at worst harmless and at best wise. Saul of Tarsus attacked everything he could see.
Agreed - and himself as well, which proves he believed in nothing but the money he gathered up for "the poor at Jerusalem" and there is no record of any of it reaching them. Funny he had the money for the offerings at the Temple a week before they wanted to kill him in the spot, as well as to hire a house in Rome to live in for some time. I wonder how many "Christians" have ever considered that little fact?

In one place Paul says what matters most is keeping the commandments of God, then in another he says that those commandments are not from God, but a curse of lower angels upon Israel and not of God at all! One place he says to have the mind of Christ in you, and in another that what is prohibited is now lawful - and that it's his gospel to make your own conscience will above any commandment of God. Then he says to obey earthly rulers, because God has appointed them, which in fact defacto says that the laws of man are above the laws of God!

Most Christians have no clue how confused they are - Paul has them spinning around in circles, and then wherever you want to stop his god-top and form a Church on his teachings - all can be justified by the teachings of Paul somewhere in his books - never realizing that God does not, nor has ever, changed what He said was wrong to now be right.

There is nothing so sad as the deluded Christian that has not been taught to believe in what Jesus taught to be the truth and grace of God. God's love has conditions - it isn't unconditional - or there would be no need to call men to repent to do the will of God!

Paul is the worst enemy of the Christian faith, and they don't know it! And their preachers are no better than any of the false prophets that ever came to Israel.

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