Why I’m no longer a Christian
mike

AOL

#470207 Dec 14, 2014
duststorm wrote:
<quoted text>
Those of us who are born again, truly saved by the blood, are already in the kingdom of heaven. We form a part of the family of God. We live in two realms, this one and the next. When we die, that is our earthly man ceases, we will pass effortlessly into the heavenly realm.

Thanks for the reply

" born-again " , is that mind conditioning ?

GOD is a concept , your" born again " is a promise to never think for yourself again .
mike

AOL

#470208 Dec 14, 2014
duststorm wrote:
<quoted text>
Ht that believeth not is condemned already. You stand at the edge of the abyss and teeter.
Whatever it is , you think you got ,..can't be used in this life .

Isn't that like counting your chickens before the eggs hatch ?
Dolphin

Pulborough, UK

#470209 Dec 15, 2014
Khatru wrote:
<quoted text>
Well that's just it.
Let's assume that there is some sort of extra dimension to our existence.
Is accessing this dimension really dependent on believing one of the following: Mohammed is the one true prophet, or that Brahma is the creator, or that Jesus was born from a virgin, etc, etc?
For Muslims believing Muhammad's teaching as the most perfect and direct way to god is not essential as stated in the Qur'an. What matters is following an authentic messenger of god. The Qur'an goes on to state the errors in earlier religions and that humans have innovated them. As a follower of Abraham it was never necessary to have his DNA only obey his teachings. Unfortunately, Jews may not be the spiritual descendants of Abraham or Christians.

One important fact is the followers of Jesus never believed he was the son of the Summer the father according to the Hyperborean religion and druids. The son born on the shortest day of the year to be destined as its savour. Jesus's sect were the Ebionites or Nazarenes not the gentile Christians.

There is so much human interference in religious teachings over the millennia that it puts off intelligent people from believing in God or the creative force or system we live in. Human love to give names to pets, cars, ships et al, so we started naming god and started disagreeing with each other. The problem with organised religion it is a business and no longer about meditative states or a philosophical belief.

The Catholic Church was the first multinational company and Christians invented theme parks over a thousand years ago..
Dolphin

Pulborough, UK

#470210 Dec 15, 2014
mike wrote:
<quoted text>
Thanks for the reply
" born-again " , is that mind conditioning ?
GOD is a concept , your" born again " is a promise to never think for yourself again .
There is big money in making people feel better about themselves. It is the basis of most modern advertising. Believe it or not in the medieval Church you could buy and sell franchises like a Macdonald's store and become a Bishop.
Dolphin

Pulborough, UK

#470211 Dec 15, 2014
waaasssuuup wrote:
<quoted text>
while i can appreciate your efforts towards peace and good will here, i have to disagree about what you're saying.
the reason is, the Bible teaches us that there are to kingdoms going on in the spirit realm simultaneously which affect our dealings with God and each other in this current physical realm; the kingdom of God and the kingdom of darkness. we can get a sense through our words of which kingdom we each belong:-)
It is interesting how gentile or Church tradition has invented the devil. Other people of the book, Jews, Samarians, Muslims do not believe in a devil, but believe in Satan. Satan is bad or selfish thoughts or impulses and seek to conquer them. That is exactly what Jesus is in the desert. Christianity is a pagan myth, not an authentic religion and an affront to the name and person of Jesus.
Dolphin

Pulborough, UK

#470212 Dec 15, 2014
duststorm wrote:
<quoted text>Every child knows that Jesus was born in Bethlehem of Judea, so he was not a Samaritan.
Every child should know Jesus was born in Galilee in a hamlet called Bethlehem and near Capernaum. When the Israelis excavated a new road they discovered a large ancient church the birth spot of Jesus. Then Constantine's mother came along and moved the location near Jerusalem to Bethlehem in Judea.

The Church are always deceiving people and hiding the truth - they would not want to admit they had the wrong location.
Dolphin

Pulborough, UK

#470213 Dec 15, 2014
duststorm wrote:
<quoted text>
Once saved, always saved. I'm ready to go at any minute. Jesus saved my soul. Make that SAVED, past tense, over and done.
Believing in little green men or that god looks like a human being does not make it true.

Believing in Jesus has led to some of the greatest genocides in human history especially by the Franks in Germany to achieve conversion. In the crusades you could roast children alive and still go to heaven.

Salvation is really about defeating your personal satan, like Jews and Muslims believe, not just claiming an affiliation. For Muslims it is about becoming a better person through self sacrifice to the good of all men and women. By that change you are better suited to survive securely in the next higher state of consciousness. Remember paradise has has many levels and trials.

Otherwise mass murderers and sadists just have to affiliate. The founder of Christianity Constantine the Great only converted on his death bed having arranged the twelve apostles tombs around his and claiming to be a reincarnation of Christ.

“let's do this thang!”

Since: Aug 10

Location hidden

#470214 Dec 15, 2014
Dolphin wrote:
<quoted text>
It is interesting how gentile or Church tradition has invented the devil. Other people of the book, Jews, Samarians, Muslims do not believe in a devil, but believe in Satan. Satan is bad or selfish thoughts or impulses and seek to conquer them. That is exactly what Jesus is in the desert. Christianity is a pagan myth, not an authentic religion and an affront to the name and person of Jesus.
you are entitled to your own opinions however erroneous they may be, since it's you who will live forever with the consequences of where they take you....
duststorm

League City, TX

#470215 Dec 15, 2014
mike wrote:
<quoted text>
Thanks for the reply
" born-again " , is that mind conditioning ?
GOD is a concept , your" born again " is a promise to never think for yourself again .
Born again is a mandate from Jesus. He said, Except a man be born again, he cannot see the kingdom of heaven.

“The future begins”

Since: Jul 07

every moment

#470216 Dec 15, 2014
duststorm wrote:
<quoted text>Born again is a mandate from Jesus. He said, Except a man be born again, he cannot see the kingdom of heaven.
Born-again is a relatively new twist in evangelism that arose out of the hedonistic 60's and 70's. This "mandate" was never heard as a mainstream doctrine prior to this time period. Paul preaches nothing about it. A few expositions from such as John Wesley can be found, but they are offered as sermons, not foundational doctrine. The entire movement is based solidly in the 20th century, and founded on one solitary passage in all the Bible. The "born-again" concept appealed then, and still, most especially to those who, through bad choices, find themselves in a degraded circumstance. They very often describe a condition of feeling "lost" or "alone". It appeals equally as well to social misfits - those who were always on the fringes of any meaningful social interaction in their formative years

Thus the early proselytizers latched onto this idea of shedding the old and re-emerging "anew". It has imagery that appeals to those utterly ashamed of their "old ways". They either physically cannot, or are too prideful to, actually make amends to those they've wronged, so instead they seek absolution from an imaginary Forgiver. They generally emerge from the "re-birth" more prideful than humble, now claiming a superior sanctification that can't be proved, but also can't be disproved, and this is plenty good enough for them.

There's really nothing inherently wrong with the impulse. It's also known, not quite so sanctimoniously, as "turning over a new leaf". In fact it is noble on the face of it, for one to reach inside themselves for the will to drag themselves up from a point of degraded circumstance. Sadly, the primary result tho' has been an entire class of "reformed" people. It is well known there is too often no one as obnoxiously self-righteous as a "reformed" whatever. Spiritually they are no further ahead then before, as they generally display faith a mile-wide and an inch deep. In keeping with the one-liner nature of their Biblical basis, they seem to have self-serving scripture-mining down to a science, and steadfastly rationalize or deny all that does not serve their new self-made image. They become rigidly dogmatic and smugly superior. We see this here daily, but we also have seen it in the political arena since the 1980's. The Religious Right is almost entirely peopled by evangelical "Born-Againers".

Oddly enough, a considerable portion of them have no regular church affiliation, claiming that "the Churches" are corrupt. While this is largely true, nevertheless upon examination, their non-attendance obviously has more to do with greed, laziness, and a general creeping misanthropy. Many also deny the need for baptism - a rite of passage that has been solidly doctrinal since Jesus, and John before him. In other words, they carve an entirely self-serving niche out an already self-centered religion.

"Born-Again" has been around long enough now to have achieved a facade of orthodoxy. Most newly indoctrinated members, especially those under 40 are under the false assumption that the "Born-again" doctrine is the way it's been since Jesus. But it's not. Any long-time Christian, or former Christian, over 45 years old, can attest that it is merely a new wrinkle for a new age. They've merely hyper-focused on this highly-unlikely saying attributed to Jesus, and built an entire "We're Saved/You're Not" dogma out of it. Christianity is at core a divisive religion, and this is just a new "Big Me - little you" sorting tool.
duststorm

League City, TX

#470217 Dec 16, 2014
Ye blind guides...you strain at a gnat, yet swallow a camel.
duststorm

League City, TX

#470218 Dec 16, 2014
HipGnosis wrote:
<quoted text>
Thus the early proselytizers latched onto this idea of shedding the old and re-emerging "anew". It has imagery that appeals to those utterly ashamed of their "old ways". They either physically cannot, or are too prideful to, actually make amends to those they've wronged, so instead they seek absolution from an imaginary Forgiver.
There's really nothing inherently wrong with the impulse. It's also known, not quite so sanctimoniously, as "turning over a new leaf". In fact it is noble on the face of it, for one to reach inside themselves for the will to drag themselves up from a point of degraded circumstance.
Therefore, if any man be in Christ, he is a new creature; old things are passed away. Behold, all things are become new. II Corinthians 5:17
No man can drag himself up from his degraded circumstance. It is Jesus who plucks us out of the miry clay and sets our foot upon the solid rock.
Barnsweb

Canton, OH

#470219 Dec 16, 2014
duststorm wrote:
<quoted text>Therefore, if any man be in Christ, he is a new creature; old things are passed away. Behold, all things are become new. II Corinthians 5:17
No man can drag himself up from his degraded circumstance. It is Jesus who plucks us out of the miry clay and sets our foot upon the solid rock.
I'll agree that we are to become new - a new creation as we allow Jesus (Yahshua) to enlighten our pathway of life, but it is we who have to want to change - to repent to do as He called "the will of God." Jesus taught and exampled proper interpretation and application of the gracious instruction on God. Jesus upheld the Torah to the least commandment, and taught that His disciples are to do likewise. God never said right is wrong, or wrong is right - nor did any prophet or apostle of God or the Christ, who is our Savior. Jesus plainly taught it is we who have to repent and start growing in obedience to God that is caused because of our belief and faith that He is who He said He is, and that His teachings are the Doctrine of God.

Those of God come to Him to know that what they do is done of God. Jesus never said we are saved by grace, through faith, and not of works that any man would boast. The only person in Scripture that boasted about what they did is Paul. And strangely, it is Paul who said salvation is of grace and not of works, which absolutely contradicts the words of God and the Christ.

Rome put Paul into the New Testament about 300 years after the fact. The Church of God at Jerusalem rejected Paul - did you know that? In fact, the original heresy was to take what Paul said above what Jesus plainly taught the truth of God to be. Look up some historical accounts of Marcion. Marcion is who gave us Paul's writings. God gave instruction in Deut. 4, 12, 13 and 18 for all history - the criteria He commands us to use to know who speaks for Him and who does not. Jesus passed the exams, as did the original disciples. However, Paul and all his disciples didn't.

So are we to be judged by the words of Jesus Christ, as He plainly taught?
or
Will all men be judged by the gospel Paul preached?

What did Jesus say? What did Paul say?

Who should we believe if our love is first and foremost for God - the greatest commandment?

jesuswordsonly.com
onediscipletoanother.org

“The future begins”

Since: Jul 07

every moment

#470220 Dec 16, 2014
duststorm wrote:
<quoted text>Therefore, if any man be in Christ, he is a new creature; old things are passed away. Behold, all things are become new. II Corinthians 5:
Same universal "new leaf" concept, Where's the mandate?
duststorm wrote:
<quoted text>No man can drag himself up from his degraded circumstance. It is Jesus who plucks us out of the miry clay and sets our foot upon the solid rock.
Ignoring the millions who do in fact successfully do so without attributing it to a dead man inhabiting their body. As positive as it admittedly can be, Christianity forces one to self-imposed ignorance of their fellow man's struggles if it doesn't serve the "message".
Black Thunder 42

Albuquerque, NM

#470221 Dec 16, 2014
Barnsweb wrote:
<quoted text>
I'll agree that we are to become new - a new creation as we allow Jesus (Yahshua) to enlighten our pathway of life, but it is we who have to want to change - to repent to do as He called "the will of God." Jesus taught and exampled proper interpretation and application of the gracious instruction on God. Jesus upheld the Torah to the least commandment, and taught that His disciples are to do likewise. God never said right is wrong, or wrong is right - nor did any prophet or apostle of God or the Christ, who is our Savior. Jesus plainly taught it is we who have to repent and start growing in obedience to God that is caused because of our belief and faith that He is who He said He is, and that His teachings are the Doctrine of God.
Those of God come to Him to know that what they do is done of God. Jesus never said we are saved by grace, through faith, and not of works that any man would boast. The only person in Scripture that boasted about what they did is Paul. And strangely, it is Paul who said salvation is of grace and not of works, which absolutely contradicts the words of God and the Christ.
Rome put Paul into the New Testament about 300 years after the fact. The Church of God at Jerusalem rejected Paul - did you know that? In fact, the original heresy was to take what Paul said above what Jesus plainly taught the truth of God to be. Look up some historical accounts of Marcion. Marcion is who gave us Paul's writings. God gave instruction in Deut. 4, 12, 13 and 18 for all history - the criteria He commands us to use to know who speaks for Him and who does not. Jesus passed the exams, as did the original disciples. However, Paul and all his disciples didn't.
So are we to be judged by the words of Jesus Christ, as He plainly taught?
or
Will all men be judged by the gospel Paul preached?
What did Jesus say? What did Paul say?
Who should we believe if our love is first and foremost for God - the greatest commandment?
jesuswordsonly.com
onediscipletoanother.org
Nothing against the teachings of the great sage Jesus here....but your deity has changed his name so many times in the book you call "holy" alone, no one knows who the "REAL" deity really is.
PTAH never had to change his writings or identity to his followers....oh, BTW - most "all" of your so called Abrahamic "basic(core)" sayings and laws came from the ancient words of PTAH- including Proverbs and the "positive" "Laws of Maat"(which were abbreviated into the "negative" 10 commandments) by the [writer(s)] of "Moses"....who was also a repeat of two "earlier" stories preceding the Hebrew refabricated/reconstituted accounts of preceding history.
Barnsweb

Canton, OH

#470222 Dec 16, 2014
Black Thunder 42 wrote:
<quoted text>
Nothing against the teachings of the great sage Jesus here....but your deity has changed his name so many times in the book you call "holy" alone, no one knows who the "REAL" deity really is.
PTAH never had to change his writings or identity to his followers....oh, BTW - most "all" of your so called Abrahamic "basic(core)" sayings and laws came from the ancient words of PTAH- including Proverbs and the "positive" "Laws of Maat"(which were abbreviated into the "negative" 10 commandments) by the [writer(s)] of "Moses"....who was also a repeat of two "earlier" stories preceding the Hebrew refabricated/reconstituted accounts of preceding history.
Having not studied Maat, I have no idea about that, and I doubt that God didn't speak to men about what is good or evil until Moses. The focus on Moses' account has been my study. The ancient Hebrew text also contains hidden codes recently discovered that indicate what Moses wrote was not of his own doing - even though he was schooled in Egyptian knowledge.
Black Thunder 42

Albuquerque, NM

#470223 Dec 16, 2014
Barnsweb wrote:
<quoted text>
Having not studied Maat, I have no idea about that, and I doubt that God didn't speak to men about what is good or evil until Moses. The focus on Moses' account has been my study. The ancient Hebrew text also contains hidden codes recently discovered that indicate what Moses wrote was not of his own doing - even though he was schooled in Egyptian knowledge.
Indeed.
"Moses" was a "title"...and a high Egyptian priest....the amalgamation of several characters of history. Good wishes from myself to your person in your quest for "truth" in the [actuality] concerning history and religion....you will need it.
Dolphin

Pulborough, UK

#470224 Dec 17, 2014
mike wrote:
<quoted text>
Thanks for the reply
" born-again " , is that mind conditioning ?
GOD is a concept , your" born again " is a promise to never think for yourself again .

I agree "born again" is a way of saying leave one sect and join mine. Jesus is reported to say "believe in Me" He means follow my teaching and do not discriminate against other Jews with disabilities or who work in unclean professions . The other Jews believed the former were not allowed to practice Judaism because they were unclean or uncleanable. Remember ritual washing is a big thing for Jews even today.

The next jump of faith which gentile Xtians naively believe is all Church tradition made up later. Jesus is likened to the sun or Lugh in the druid tradition. The druid year is divided in to three seasons. Winter, Spring and Summer. Jesus is born on the shortest day Christmas. In february Lugh (the Sun) is a teenager and Winter and Spring go head to head. Lugh defeats Balor or Winter and Spring is declared. In that sense the youthful sun is the "Saviour" of the world. He restores the world and is born again. Only after he marries the Earth and life is created he become the father until Fall. You have to realise Son and SUN are the same word like God and GOOD. Fall is likened to the Crucifixion when the sun is blood coloured, it hardly rises and glides above the trees.

There is doubt Jesus ever existed historically. Accepting that he did most of what the Church claims as a "faith" has been made up by Church philosophers either to make the religion popular to pagans in Rome or to escape illogicalities in doctrine. Everyone in the West has been raised in a kind of Taliban or Ayatullah state they accept the myths they are told because the alternative arguments are suppressed. The Churches own Theologians have debunked Xtianity without outside help after Muslim clerics in C19th raised many issues. The New Testament has since been revised and some verses have been struck out at that time or as Church Theologians have realised errors in transmission and translation.

However we have still to beare the ostridge like people who refuse to realise the game is up.

Supposing god exists, is not Jesus's life a contorted way to get his or her way over.
Dolphin

Pulborough, UK

#470225 Dec 17, 2014
duststorm wrote:
<quoted text>Therefore, if any man be in Christ, he is a new creature; old things are passed away. Behold, all things are become new. II Corinthians 5:17
No man can drag himself up from his degraded circumstance. It is Jesus who plucks us out of the miry clay and sets our foot upon the solid rock.
You cannot go around quoting verses of the NT that were written centuries after Jesus by bishops who had a vested interest in increasing their income from converts. Remember these texts have been annotated and on occasions these marginal notes have found their way in the main text. It make the whole NT an unreliable document.
Barnsweb

Canton, OH

#470226 Dec 17, 2014
Black Thunder 42 wrote:
<quoted text>
Indeed.
"Moses" was a "title"...and a high Egyptian priest....the amalgamation of several characters of history. Good wishes from myself to your person in your quest for "truth" in the [actuality] concerning history and religion....you will need it.
Thanks. So far as I can tell, I've been finding all I was looking for in the records of the teachings of Jesus (Yahshua) from Matthew and John - excluding the known additions and also study into the ancient Aramaic records for Matthew and John and Revelation.

Most "Christians" don't have a clue about what he really taught, as they are told to believe Paul, who taught to disregard the instructions of God and Yahshua.

It hasn't been easy to weed through the issues, but I think it's pretty easy, once I realized Paul was a liar and blowviator;-)

onediscipletoanother.org

Tell me when this thread is updated:

Subscribe Now Add to my Tracker

Add your comments below

Characters left: 4000

Please note by submitting this form you acknowledge that you have read the Terms of Service and the comment you are posting is in compliance with such terms. Be polite. Inappropriate posts may be removed by the moderator. Send us your feedback.

Top Stories Discussions

Title Updated Last By Comments
News Plurality of Americans think Trump is failing (Mar '17) 5 min Occams Raazor 80,998
News Roman Catholic church only true church, says Va... (Jul '07) 1 hr kent 701,818
There is Everything Wrong with Abortion (Nov '07) 1 hr Sammy 223,323
Prove there's a god. (Mar '08) 1 hr Prince of Darkness 995,847
Democrats Are Communists, Believe Me 3 hr Prince of Darkness 2
Are women from USA scared of marriage? 4 hr Choicerocks 10
Tronald Dump's Fascist NAZI Coup d'Etat 16 hr Hallejula 8