“Love much, trust none”

Since: Jul 11

There

#439619 Jan 27, 2013
Lost In Transition wrote:
<quoted text>
Eat Mor Chikin
Holy Cow!

“xcntrik.wordpres s.com”

Since: Mar 07

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#439620 Jan 27, 2013
G_O_D wrote:
<quoted text>
Just to play advocatus diaboli, Could thic not be taken as Jesus proclaiming himself to be God ? <smile>
One can interpret anything in any way, eh? People often do.

Not to be difficult, but I think it is important to read what the text says in context?
What was the question asked?

The Pharisees' question was about when the Kingdom of God would arrive, a day that many had been looking forward to for a long time.

What was the answer?

"The kingdom of God is not coming with a visible display. People won’t be saying,‘Look! Here it is!’ or ‘There it is!’ because now the kingdom of God is among you.”

In the next verses the author has Jesus take the disciples aside to describe his role.

“xcntrik.wordpres s.com”

Since: Mar 07

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#439621 Jan 27, 2013
G_O_D wrote:
<quoted text>
I have Henry Lincoln's phone# if you wan't his opinion. LOL
Prolly wouldn't be a good idea to mention Dan Brown, huh?

Since: Jun 12

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#439622 Jan 27, 2013
Skombolis wrote:
<quoted text>
I understand your point of not being accountable to anyone than than other humans but I think you are not factoring in some important things. First of all most criminals simply don't care about the risk or the consequences don't work as a deterrent. Now are there some smart enough and in control enough to weigh out the possible outcomes yet feel they are skilled enough to avoid being caught? Yes. But that isn't a large group IMO. Most act on impulse.
Not really. Many plan their crimes. It is called premeditated or planned which makes a difference in degree of crime. 1st degree murder has to be pre meditated.
But let's say for the sake of argument that criminals only engage in criminal acts because earthly punishment isn't a sufficient deterrent. That would be a reason for arguing your point IF on the flip side believers that commit crimes did care and it worked as deterrent. This where it becomes very flawed
Believers can succomb to atheistic thinking at an given time give the proper inducement for momentary events.
1) A believer shouldn't need a deterrent not to commit a crime. At the same time any moral person wouldn't require a deterent not to commit a crime. They simply wouldn't do it because it is wrong
In Christianity and in life the deterrent is there anyway.
2) Once-saved believers think all future sins are forgiven. Where is the deterrent?
Once saved believers also believe the are filled with the Spirit of God which causes major life change and is demonstrated in both conduct and attitude. If there is no sufficient change along these lines then salvation comes into question. Jacob was chosen over Esau before birth. Morally they were not all that different but the results were certainly not the same.
3) And even those who don't subscribe to OSAS (like me) still believe if one is truly repentant later God will forgive them. I can't imagine ever feeling good about committing a crime.
Criminals do feel good. Your analysis above effectually makes you your own savior since it is your conduct which ultimately dictates your destination and everything else is merely foreplay. Jesus only offers probationary salvation.
And any sociology course will show that deterrent doesn't dissuade crime.
Not in an absolute sense.
And if religiously speaking we know God will forgive us if we are sorry or think he already has for anything we will ever do wrong then the only real deterrent we face is the same one anyone else does which is human justice.
Forgiveness is at the cross of Christ according to Christianity. Direct appeals to God apart from Jesus does not work.
Crimes have the same deterrent for both believers and unbelievers.
The difference being, atheists do not believe there is any accounting to God.
Now answering to God for lack of faith or failing to obey or things that are not illegal but are sins to God, then yes as believers it stands to reason we would care more about the consequence of spiritual matters. But people are people as far as crime and they simply don't think about the outcome or care about it at the time when they decide to commit a crime. IMO anyway
(T) Peace
Some don't and some do. I appreciate your thoughtful response. You missed my screw up on the Luke verse. Actually the Greek word is only used twice in the New but later english translations used in your midst because Jesus was addressing the Pharisees. The examples i provided were a different greek word.

“xcntrik.wordpres s.com”

Since: Mar 07

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#439623 Jan 27, 2013
Chess Jurist wrote:
<quoted text>
Oooo. Looks like I already made some coin:
http://www.amazon.com/gp/offer-listing/067413...
Sweet.

If Smith is exonerated the price will surely rise.
If he gets debunked the price may still rise.

I'd say it's a keeper.

Since: Jun 12

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#439624 Jan 27, 2013
Xcntrik InVidor wrote:
<quoted text>
And context always dictates usage.
Now let's show the readers the passage in context.
Luke 21: 20-21
Once Jesus was asked by the Pharisees >when< the kingdom of God would come. He answered them,“The kingdom of God >is not coming with a visible display<. People won’t be saying,‘Look! Here it is!’ or ‘There it is!’ because >now the kingdom of God >>is<< among you<.”
WHEN will it come?
It won't.
It IS NOW among you.
So thanks for helping to prove my point.
Bible schoolin' Christians is always fun.
Those Pharisees were lost so it is doubtful Jesus was telling them they had the Kingdom of God within them. Either way it is a difficult passage and it could mean either ''within'' or ''in your midst.'' Besides you missed my mistake. My examples were a different greek word which i discovered after i hit the post button.

“Love much, trust none”

Since: Jul 11

There

#439625 Jan 27, 2013
Xcntrik InVidor wrote:
<quoted text>
Prolly wouldn't be a good idea to mention Dan Brown, huh?
Lincoln said he no problem with Brown, that the subject matter was open to anyone. The other two authers of "Holy Grail Holy Blood" were the one's who brought the law suit.

“Love much, trust none”

Since: Jul 11

There

#439626 Jan 27, 2013
Xcntrik InVidor wrote:
<quoted text>
One can interpret anything in any way, eh? People often do.
Not to be difficult, but I think it is important to read what the text says in context?
What was the question asked?
The Pharisees' question was about when the Kingdom of God would arrive, a day that many had been looking forward to for a long time.
What was the answer?
"The kingdom of God is not coming with a visible display. People won’t be saying,‘Look! Here it is!’ or ‘There it is!’ because now the kingdom of God is among you.”
In the next verses the author has Jesus take the disciples aside to describe his role.
Yep, the folowing verses are clear as mud. LOL
Esp. the ending:

So He said to them,“Wherever the body is, there the eagles will be gathered together.”

Birds picking his bones clean?.. which based on archeology was the defleshing method of some Jewish groups of the time...in which case there would be no tomb or 'dressing' used which presents another problem for Chrisitans to deal with. <smile>

“Love much, trust none”

Since: Jul 11

There

#439627 Jan 27, 2013
lightbeamrider wrote:
<quoted text> Those Pharisees were lost....
No. They were in Jerusalem. LOL

“xcntrik.wordpres s.com”

Since: Mar 07

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#439628 Jan 27, 2013
lightbeamrider wrote:
<quoted text> Those Pharisees were lost so it is doubtful Jesus was telling them they had the Kingdom of God within them. Either way it is a difficult passage and it could mean either ''within'' or ''in your midst.'' Besides you missed my mistake. My examples were a different greek word which i discovered after i hit the post button.
Thanks for your participation. I don't see how your opinion affects what the text says. It only affects your interpretation.

You are welcome to interpret it in any way that you like. It's not like it is sacred or anything.

“xcntrik.wordpres s.com”

Since: Mar 07

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#439629 Jan 27, 2013
G_O_D wrote:
<quoted text>
Lincoln said he no problem with Brown, that the subject matter was open to anyone. The other two authers of "Holy Grail Holy Blood" were the one's who brought the law suit.
I didn't follow it that closely, but I remember someone from the group was quite upset.

Since: Jun 12

Location hidden

#439630 Jan 27, 2013
Xcntrik InVidor wrote:
<quoted text>
One can interpret anything in any way, eh? People often do.
Not to be difficult, but I think it is important to read what the text says in context?
What was the question asked?
The Pharisees' question was about when the Kingdom of God would arrive, a day that many had been looking forward to for a long time.
What was the answer?
"The kingdom of God is not coming with a visible display. People won’t be saying,‘Look! Here it is!’ or ‘There it is!’ because now the kingdom of God is among you.”
In the next verses the author has Jesus take the disciples aside to describe his role.
The Deity claims are in John. I do not know if there are any direct Deity claims in Luke. There are indirect claims.

“Love much, trust none”

Since: Jul 11

There

#439631 Jan 27, 2013
lightbeamrider wrote:
<quoted text> The Deity claims are in John. I do not know if there are any direct Deity claims in Luke. There are indirect claims.
All claims are based on interpretations. Jesus never directly claims to be a deity in any record. In John he does seem to claim to be Messiah but the Jewish Messiah is not a deity, just a human.

Since: Jun 12

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#439632 Jan 27, 2013
Xcntrik InVidor wrote:
<quoted text>
Thanks for your participation. I don't see how your opinion affects what the text says. It only affects your interpretation.
You are welcome to interpret it in any way that you like. It's not like it is sacred or anything.
In the Luke passages as it relates to kingdom of God Luke uses it as being near you except for that one verse in which a different Greek word is used while addressing the Pharisees which is easily translated ''within''. So i read some notes on it. That was their explanation as to why they translated to the english ''in your midst''.

“Love much, trust none”

Since: Jul 11

There

#439633 Jan 27, 2013
Xcntrik InVidor wrote:
<quoted text>
I didn't follow it that closely, but I remember someone from the group was quite upset.
Baigent and Leigh brought the lawsuit. Lincoln claimed their book was based on prior work and was a historical inquiry. He felt Brown's fiction was unrelated and just used their work as focal point in The Da Vinci Code.

“Love much, trust none”

Since: Jul 11

There

#439634 Jan 27, 2013
lightbeamrider wrote:
<quoted text> In the Luke passages as it relates to kingdom of God Luke uses it as being near you except for that one verse in which a different Greek word is used while addressing the Pharisees which is easily translated ''within''. So i read some notes on it. That was their explanation as to why they translated to the english ''in your midst''.
Your's, mine and X's interpretations are different. No way to prove who is right or wrong. What can be proven is that "God's Word" is ambiguous, misleading and often quite worthless and useless as 'facts'.

“xcntrik.wordpres s.com”

Since: Mar 07

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#439635 Jan 27, 2013
lightbeamrider wrote:
<quoted text> In the Luke passages as it relates to kingdom of God Luke uses it as being near you except for that one verse in which a different Greek word is used while addressing the Pharisees which is easily translated ''within''. So i read some notes on it. That was their explanation as to why they translated to the english ''in your midst''.
Now do you remember your original statement that started this little adventure?

I do.

“xcntrik.wordpres s.com”

Since: Mar 07

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#439636 Jan 27, 2013
lightbeamrider wrote:
<quoted text> Fu#k You. You piece of sh#t.
Wait, that's not it.

Since: Jun 12

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#439637 Jan 27, 2013
G_O_D wrote:
<quoted text>
All claims are based on interpretations. Jesus never directly claims to be a deity in any record. In John he does seem to claim to be Messiah but the Jewish Messiah is not a deity, just a human.
I don't know about that. That means you have humans dying for humans as in the Isaiah 53 passage. How can a human or a group of humans offer themselves up as a guilt offering? Since guilt offering has to meet certain requirements as far as purity. How can a human come in the clouds of heaven, not earth as in the Daniel verse. John the Baptist refers to Jesus as the Lamb of God and the phrase is only repeated in Revelation 14. These are all allusions to the Isaiah verse. What man calls another man a lamb? The critics of Jesus understood the claims of Jesus very well when they said ''You being a man make yourself out to be God.'' John 10:33.

In Matthew 26:64 Jesus quotes the Daniel 7:13 to the high priest and in response the high priest tears his robe and accuses Jesus of blasphemy. If they were only expecting a man why the blasphemy charge? Remember the Daniel verse has the son of man coming in the clouds of heaven, not earth. In the Old that means judgement.

Since: Jun 12

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#439638 Jan 27, 2013
G_O_D wrote:
<quoted text>
Your's, mine and X's interpretations are different. No way to prove who is right or wrong. What can be proven is that "God's Word" is ambiguous, misleading and often quite worthless and useless as 'facts'.
It may be hard to understand in parts but that does not mean it is worthless. The essentials remain.

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