Why I’m no longer a Christian

Since: Jul 08

Columbus, OH

#435678 Jan 15, 2013
Bigger Baby Jeebus wrote:
<quoted text>Hey, CJ. How are you. Liam seems to have quite the grasp on the fallacies of the Booble. May I ask what your beef with him is?
Hey, BBJ. Long time no see. No real beef. His posts are on target usually.

Simply pointing out that whether carting around an OT or NT deity, one is still carting a deity around.

“H-o-o-o-o-o-o-ld on thar!”

Since: Sep 08

The Borderland of Sol

#435680 Jan 15, 2013
Bigger Baby Jeebus wrote:
<quoted text>Ken Ham? Oh, wait, not a scientist and has no proof. Er, never mind.
Dia dhuit, Mac! Haha.
Conas atá tú, a mhic?

Good to see you.

“What are you looking at?”

Since: Jan 08

Albuquerque, NM

#435679 Jan 15, 2013
Who needs a prayer?

*in his best Oprah voice*

YOU GET A PRAYER!*points to Clownie*

YOU GET A PRAYER!*points to X*

YOU GET A PRAYER!*points to W_N*

:o)

Since: Jul 10

Location hidden

#435681 Jan 15, 2013
Juicylu wrote:
<quoted text>
Hey Clownie :D
Not only that but there sure are a lot of Scientists out there, on both sides of the spectrum, still trying to prove or disprove God's existance.
Maybe one of these lovely geniuses could tell them they're wasting time and money.
I think right now, it's still just a matter of personal beliefs and opinions.
"The most beautiful and deepest experience a man can have is the sense of the mysterious. It is the underlying principle of religion as well as of all serious endeavour in art and science. He who never had this experience seems to me, if not dead, then at least blind. To sense that behind anything that can be experienced there is a something that our minds cannot grasp, whose beauty and sublimity reaches us only indirectly: this is religiousness. In this sense I am religious. To me it suffices to wonder at these secrets and to attempt humbly to grasp with my mind a mere image of the lofty structure of all there is."
Albert Einstein.
"God is love"
Peace Clownie <3
Here is an interesting take on your contention:

http://ncse.com/rncse/18/2/do-scientists-real...

Since: Jul 10

Location hidden

#435682 Jan 15, 2013
Chess Jurist wrote:
<quoted text>
Hey, BBJ. Long time no see. No real beef. His posts are on target usually.
Simply pointing out that whether carting around an OT or NT deity, one is still carting a deity around.
That's very true. One would think that scurrilous yoke would grow burdensome. Does Liam espouse the OT?

Since: Jul 10

Location hidden

#435683 Jan 15, 2013
macumazahn wrote:
<quoted text>Conas atá tú, a mhic?
Good to see you.
Tá mé go maith. I see you're still killing them with logic. Good show.

Since: Jul 08

Columbus, OH

#435684 Jan 15, 2013
Bigger Baby Jeebus wrote:
<quoted text>How are you?
I can show you a website that illustrates quite well what the majority of Christians thought of the zeitgeist. Of course, it is easy to use a magnifying glass and judge their behavior without in any way looking at the context.
http://www.nobeliefs.com/Hitler1.htm
Quotes from Mein Kampf
http://www.nobeliefs.com/hitler.htm
From speeches:
http://www.nobeliefs.com/speeches.htm
Photo documentation of Christian collusion
http://www.nobeliefs.com/nazis.htm
How Hitler considered the Bible
http://www.nobeliefs.com/nazis.htm
Lies about Hitler and gun control
http://www.salon.com/2013/01/11/stop_talking_...
Did you know that in Colonial America, Catholics were unable to own guns?
Did you know that the NRA supported gun bans throughout their history?
http://www.keepandbeararms.com/information/xc...
The foundation of European anti-Semetism extends to Martin Luther, the Father of American Christianity:
http://www.nobeliefs.com/luther.htm
The old coot Drifter used to say (Where is that artless dodger?), "It is hard to brush the dust off history". He actually got it wrong. Brushing the dust from history exposes just how terribly history is manipulated by those who stand to gain politically and financially. Can we blame to common Christian in Germany for the ills of the nation? Of course not. The Treaty of Versailles made it impossible for the average German to feed their families. The conditions were ripe for a Cult of Personality dictator who could easily manipulate the masses with Booblical Principles and the collusion of the churches. Hitler put people to work and "put food on their families" (Thanks, Dubya!). This is the danger of religion, any religion. When the name of a god is invoked, and the people can be manipulated to do whatever works of that god the powers that be decide will be, the masses are opiated, sated, and stirred up into whatever froth is wanted. After all, how can you argue with a god?
Good post.

“What are you looking at?”

Since: Jan 08

Albuquerque, NM

#435685 Jan 15, 2013
Xcntrik InVidor wrote:
<quoted text>
HipG!
Get your finger out of the hole in Jesus' hand.
There's no telling where he's been.
*peeking through the holes*

I see Jimmy, Rhonda, Kevin, and Billy. And there is Johnny, and Betty!

:o)

“Are you a Problem or Solution?”

Since: Mar 09

Ann Arbor, MI

#435686 Jan 15, 2013
Bigger Baby Jeebus wrote:
<quoted text>Once again, could you please point specifically to what religion has done in this world, that could not be accomplished in other ways, outside of early tribalism for survival? You just made the same assertion again without any examples.
Piety to a god is not necessary to get groups to assemble to do good. Piety in a god or a personality cult, however, is necessary to get large groups to commit atrocities.
Bigger Baby Jeebus wrote:
<quoted text>By the way, as to your assertions about science, I find it odd that you did not acknowledge that we were in agreement and you offer the example that you did.
Let me make this simple:
Please point to what religion can or has accomplished, outside of tribalism for early survival, that cannot be accomplished secularly.
Please point to what advances have been accomplished without methodological naturalism and the scientific method.
I'll be waiting at the bar.
Bigger Baby Jeebus wrote:
<quoted text>And where did I proffer extremism? That straw man was just blown away.
Time out please! I had already come to the conclusion that I had misread your post before I got to these posts…it was not a straw man, honest misread.

Since: Jul 10

Location hidden

#435687 Jan 15, 2013
macumazahn wrote:
<quoted text>Now that's the sort of thing that should've occurred to me.
It didn't.
Thanks!
The reason for the arrows in hotel rooms and public areas in the first place is quite interesting and points to the insanity and anachronistic properties of god belief. It was easy to face Mecca when the religion was geographically bound to the local area. "Hey, it's over there!"

As travel became ubiquitous and the religion spread its virulent depravity, Mecca was no longer so easy to face, nor did time zones make prayer rites easy to follow. Somehow the lunatics figured out a fatwa of convenience to adjust to modernity.

Since: Jul 10

Location hidden

#435688 Jan 15, 2013
Chess Jurist wrote:
<quoted text>
Good post.
Thanks.

Since: Jul 10

Location hidden

#435689 Jan 15, 2013
NoStress4me wrote:
<quoted text>
<quoted text>
<quoted text>
Time out please! I had already come to the conclusion that I had misread your post before I got to these posts…it was not a straw man, honest misread.
Haha. That's OK. I still love ya!

“xcntrik.wordpres s.com”

Since: Mar 07

Location hidden

#435690 Jan 15, 2013
NoStress4me wrote:
<quoted text>
Hmm, I don’t guess I caught that before.
Here's where it starts:

From L. Mike White @ UTA
http://www.pbs.org/wgbh/pages/frontline/shows...

"One of Alexander's self-conscious policies is, as far as we can see, to bring Hellenistic culture to these conquered peoples. There's a great deal of emphasis on imparting Greek ideals and Greek culture throughout this new empire of Alexander.... One good example of the emergence of Greek influences in Jewish tradition, after the conquest of Alexander the Great, is the document that we know as First Enoch. Now First Enoch was written somewhere between around 250 BCE and 200 BCE, in the early phase of Greek control of the Middle East. And First Enoch reflects the tensions that face Jewish tradition as a result of these Greek influences. On the one hand, First Enoch is extremely, intensively Jewish. It is a retelling of the biblical creation story and the early chapters of Genesis with an idea of our God being in control. So in that sense, it's very traditional. On the other hand, the way it tells that story of Genesis clearly has elements of Greek influence within it.... It's the story of Enoch, one of those characters before the flood. Genesis Chapter 5. And in this story Enoch is taken away to heaven.... Now what he sees then is something that the biblical story doesn't describe. He sees the rebellion of the angels. This too is based on Genesis, from the story in Genesis 6 where the sons of God rape daughters of men and produce a race of giants. Only now in First Enoch this is the rebellion of the angels under their leader, Azazel, whom we'll later call Satan....

"So First Enoch gives us some of the most important components of what we think of as later Jewish and Christian apocalyptic tradition. We have God and Satan, good and evil. We have angels. The story of Genesis about the sons of God now have become the angels. In fact in the book of First Enoch, these angels are also called the watchers. They're the stars in heaven. At least the ones who don't fall. The others are the demons of hell. And importantly we have a cosmic battle thought of in these very dualistic terms where the forces of God and the forces of Satan will fight for control of the universe. But the stage for this battle, the battleground itself, is earth."

“Are you a Problem or Solution?”

Since: Mar 09

Ann Arbor, MI

#435691 Jan 15, 2013
This is what I was working on prior to my last post to you. I am sorry that I responded the way that I did, but I was following along the lines of the conversation I was having with the other fellow. Sorry about that.

BBJ - I think I misread your post. Now that I have reread it I am wondering how to respond….The person I was responding to gave a list of all the reasons that religion is bad and science is good. He said:

“To be fair, the fruits of religion speak for themselves... wars, genocides, prejudice,'the systematic fucking of children!'(the catholic church) abusing children in general by making them believe that if they are bad they will spend eternity in a place of eternal torture.
Now the fruits of science... increasing life expectancy 100%(from around 40 to 80) medicines and vaccines, electricity that we all evidently use daily, the internet, computers, cars, planes, trains, light bulbs, an understanding of the world around us past simply being superstitious about everything.”

I replied with:
I can’t agree that the above view is a fair one personally. Looks to me like you are looking for all the bad in religion, and all the good in science. Everything that religion has done in this world is not bad, and everything science has done is not good.

To which you responded with:
Bigger Baby Jeebus wrote:
<quoted text>With all due respect, could you please point to what religion has done in this world that is good. I am not asking about individual or group acts of kindness in the name of one church or another, but what have religions contributed to Society past the early necessity of tribalism for survival?
And I agree, science has certainly made killing most efficient, but the good outweighs the bad in immeasurable terms.
I cant point out one singular good that religion has done, as a whole.

Since: Jul 08

Columbus, OH

#435692 Jan 15, 2013
water_nymph wrote:
<quoted text>Yes. Are you planning to take the last week of May off so you can come to Stone Henge with us?
LOL. Wish I could.

Since: Jul 08

Columbus, OH

#435693 Jan 15, 2013
Bigger Baby Jeebus wrote:
<quoted text>That's very true. One would think that scurrilous yoke would grow burdensome. Does Liam espouse the OT?
I do not know.

Since: Jul 08

Columbus, OH

#435694 Jan 15, 2013
Xcntrik InVidor wrote:
<quoted text>
Here's where it starts:
From L. Mike White @ UTA
http://www.pbs.org/wgbh/pages/frontline/shows...
"One of Alexander's self-conscious policies is, as far as we can see, to bring Hellenistic culture to these conquered peoples. There's a great deal of emphasis on imparting Greek ideals and Greek culture throughout this new empire of Alexander.... One good example of the emergence of Greek influences in Jewish tradition, after the conquest of Alexander the Great, is the document that we know as First Enoch. Now First Enoch was written somewhere between around 250 BCE and 200 BCE, in the early phase of Greek control of the Middle East. And First Enoch reflects the tensions that face Jewish tradition as a result of these Greek influences. On the one hand, First Enoch is extremely, intensively Jewish. It is a retelling of the biblical creation story and the early chapters of Genesis with an idea of our God being in control. So in that sense, it's very traditional. On the other hand, the way it tells that story of Genesis clearly has elements of Greek influence within it.... It's the story of Enoch, one of those characters before the flood. Genesis Chapter 5. And in this story Enoch is taken away to heaven.... Now what he sees then is something that the biblical story doesn't describe. He sees the rebellion of the angels. This too is based on Genesis, from the story in Genesis 6 where the sons of God rape daughters of men and produce a race of giants. Only now in First Enoch this is the rebellion of the angels under their leader, Azazel, whom we'll later call Satan....
"So First Enoch gives us some of the most important components of what we think of as later Jewish and Christian apocalyptic tradition. We have God and Satan, good and evil. We have angels. The story of Genesis about the sons of God now have become the angels. In fact in the book of First Enoch, these angels are also called the watchers. They're the stars in heaven. At least the ones who don't fall. The others are the demons of hell. And importantly we have a cosmic battle thought of in these very dualistic terms where the forces of God and the forces of Satan will fight for control of the universe. But the stage for this battle, the battleground itself, is earth."
Good stuff.

“xcntrik.wordpres s.com”

Since: Mar 07

Location hidden

#435695 Jan 15, 2013
New Age Spiritual Leader wrote:
<quoted text>
*peeking through the holes*
I see Jimmy, Rhonda, Kevin, and Billy. And there is Johnny, and Betty!
:o)
Romper, bomper, stomper boo.
Tell me, tell me, tell me, do.

“Are you a Problem or Solution?”

Since: Mar 09

Ann Arbor, MI

#435697 Jan 15, 2013
Bigger Baby Jeebus wrote:
<quoted text>Haha. That's OK. I still love ya!
Chuckle’ thanks BBJ :O) I hope the response I just posted makes more sense and is not out of left field again.

“Are you a Problem or Solution?”

Since: Mar 09

Ann Arbor, MI

#435699 Jan 15, 2013
Xcntrik InVidor wrote:
<quoted text>
Here's where it starts:
From L. Mike White @ UTA
http://www.pbs.org/wgbh/pages/frontline/shows...
"One of Alexander's self-conscious policies is, as far as we can see, to bring Hellenistic culture to these conquered peoples. There's a great deal of emphasis on imparting Greek ideals and Greek culture throughout this new empire of Alexander.... One good example of the emergence of Greek influences in Jewish tradition, after the conquest of Alexander the Great, is the document that we know as First Enoch. Now First Enoch was written somewhere between around 250 BCE and 200 BCE, in the early phase of Greek control of the Middle East. And First Enoch reflects the tensions that face Jewish tradition as a result of these Greek influences. On the one hand, First Enoch is extremely, intensively Jewish. It is a retelling of the biblical creation story and the early chapters of Genesis with an idea of our God being in control. So in that sense, it's very traditional. On the other hand, the way it tells that story of Genesis clearly has elements of Greek influence within it.... It's the story of Enoch, one of those characters before the flood. Genesis Chapter 5. And in this story Enoch is taken away to heaven.... Now what he sees then is something that the biblical story doesn't describe. He sees the rebellion of the angels. This too is based on Genesis, from the story in Genesis 6 where the sons of God rape daughters of men and produce a race of giants. Only now in First Enoch this is the rebellion of the angels under their leader, Azazel, whom we'll later call Satan....
"So First Enoch gives us some of the most important components of what we think of as later Jewish and Christian apocalyptic tradition. We have God and Satan, good and evil. We have angels. The story of Genesis about the sons of God now have become the angels. In fact in the book of First Enoch, these angels are also called the watchers. They're the stars in heaven. At least the ones who don't fall. The others are the demons of hell. And importantly we have a cosmic battle thought of in these very dualistic terms where the forces of God and the forces of Satan will fight for control of the universe. But the stage for this battle, the battleground itself, is earth."
Thank you for the information X, much appreciated.

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