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Since: Jul 08

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#431252
Dec 30, 2012
 

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G_O_D wrote:
What I find most interesting is that the people who actually walked with Jesus are made out to be idiots while the self proclaimed "apostle" who never met Jesus, knew nothing about Jesus, disagreed with all those who did know Jesus, contradtics Jesus, etc. is heralded as the only man who knows what Jesus meant.
That is just stupid.
<quoted text>
Exactly. Paul's "Judiazers" doubtless were closer to the original teachings of the Jerusalem church and some may have been part of the church.

Paul was selling a myth to Gentiles and had to Hellenize it to do so. He could not have sold it well otherwise.

And that's what it boils down to.

Since: Dec 12

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#431253
Dec 30, 2012
 

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Because, Islam is the only true and best religion over all religious. No doubt that torah, Psalm, Gospel and bible are holy books but Quran Pak is the latest version of all these books and Allah says himself in Quran that this book (Quran) does confirmation of all (previous) holy books.
As we usually say that this is the latest version (of could be anything) dude check that out many of bugs have been fixed in that and it is the final version, obviously that will be the best version. Use the same sense for religion that Islam is the latest version of all real religious and it is the best. I am talking about Religious not about community (Actually people have made a lot of communities in Islam). While i think Islam is the simplest religion on the planet.(Sorry for the bad english).

Since: Jul 08

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#431255
Dec 30, 2012
 
pakpharm wrote:
Because, Islam is the only true and best religion over all religious. No doubt that torah, Psalm, Gospel and bible are holy books but Quran Pak is the latest version of all these books and Allah says himself in Quran that this book (Quran) does confirmation of all (previous) holy books.
As we usually say that this is the latest version (of could be anything) dude check that out many of bugs have been fixed in that and it is the final version, obviously that will be the best version. Use the same sense for religion that Islam is the latest version of all real religious and it is the best. I am talking about Religious not about community (Actually people have made a lot of communities in Islam). While i think Islam is the simplest religion on the planet.(Sorry for the bad english).
Allah's pretend, goofy.

And Mu&#7717;ammad was a pedophile.

Since: Dec 12

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#431256
Dec 30, 2012
 

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Chess Jurist wrote:
<quoted text>
Allah's pretend, goofy.
And Mu&#7717;ammad was a pedophile.
You don't know anything about Allah or Mohammad. So please stop abusing or don't use bad words for any religion. If you hate my post just ignore it don't abuse anyone please .

“Love much, trust none”

Since: Jul 11

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#431257
Dec 30, 2012
 

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DearthOfCouth wrote:
<quoted text>
Why doesn't he just do away with hell?
I mean, if he's God and all, it seems to me that he could just simplify things....
If God is good, he isn't great.
If God is great, he isn't good.

Pretty simple.

“Love much, trust none”

Since: Jul 11

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#431258
Dec 30, 2012
 

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T-Town Clown wrote:
<quoted text>There are probably millions of people who have their names on church rolls but they do not have their names on Godís roll, which is the Book of Life. Many are trying to earn their way to heaven but that is an impossible task.
GET SAVED
IOW you would rather sit at a computer bashing us than actually do something useful.

Since: Jul 08

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#431259
Dec 30, 2012
 
pakpharm wrote:
<quoted text>
You don't know anything about Allah or Mohammad. So please stop abusing or don't use bad words for any religion. If you hate my post just ignore it don't abuse anyone please .
I don't hate your post; I welcome it.

But that doesn't change the fact that Allah is pretend and Muhammad was a pedophile.

“Love much, trust none”

Since: Jul 11

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#431260
Dec 30, 2012
 

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water_nymph wrote:
<quoted text>Why is it always Tinker Bell? Why can't all men just fantasize about Water_Nymphs? We sure do get a bum rap.
Tink has a cuter 'tail'. LOL

“Love much, trust none”

Since: Jul 11

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#431261
Dec 30, 2012
 
water_nymph wrote:
<quoted text>Yep. And they then believe that those who don't believe as they do have been 'blinded'.
I still haven't figured out why people who claim to believe in God, Jesus and the Bible as perfect Gods and works of Gods,
why do they never read teh book and tale everyone else's word over Jesus' as recorded in their book ?

If I thought the Bible was perfect and written by God, I would memorise the entire work.
If I beleived Jesus was God I would do everything He (not Paul or Popes) said to do.

I honestly don't believe a single Christian believes that any more than an atheist does. If they did, they would be doing everything much differently.

If I believed that there was a heaven and I was going there as soon as I died, I would be trying real hord to die as quickly as possible.

IMO Christianity (and similar religions) is a bunch of lies that people tell themslves because they really DON'T believe a damn thing.
Rosa Winkel

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#431262
Dec 30, 2012
 

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T-Town Clown wrote:
<quoted text>You don't have to like me just be like me
Be like u. God help us!
Rosa Winkel

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#431263
Dec 30, 2012
 
water_nymph wrote:
<quoted text>Get another version of the Bible and read the whole story of Moses from the first time he went up on the mountain. It's quite easy to find out the story of the commandments if you only read the Bible. You don't have to 'research it', unless you are claiming that reading the Bible is research.
I find that most Christians have never actually read their Bible, and if they have it has been in bits and pieces as handed to them on Sunday. I would suggest putting aside all the things you've been told by a preacher or books by apologetic Christian authors and just read it. Read exactly what it says. You'll understand a great deal more that way and you won't have to keep saying you don't know exactly what it says. We already had that figured out by your posts.
Now, go ahead and say this is a mean post, that I'm attacking you or whatever because I have given you good advice.
The movie version of the Ten Commandments is pretty good too.

“Love much, trust none”

Since: Jul 11

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#431264
Dec 30, 2012
 
Chess Jurist wrote:
<quoted text>
Exactly. Paul's "Judiazers" doubtless were closer to the original teachings of the Jerusalem church and some may have been part of the church.
Paul was selling a myth to Gentiles and had to Hellenize it to do so. He could not have sold it well otherwise.
And that's what it boils down to.
Exactly!

“xcntrik.wordpres s.com”

Since: Mar 07

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#431265
Dec 30, 2012
 

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Juicylu wrote:
<quoted text>
You might be asking the wrong person or at the wrong time I should say, but I do understand your views very well. I often get accused by those who don't know me of not being a Christian. Apparently, I ask too many questions.
Honest questions welcome here.

No answers guaranteed.

“xcntrik.wordpres s.com”

Since: Mar 07

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#431266
Dec 30, 2012
 
lightbeamrider wrote:
<quoted text> I got a tattoo while drunk in Hong Kong. Not angry bout it anymore.
Smart move.

You gotta let that kinda stuff go.

I am still a little pissed about the pony, but I'm dealing with it.
Rosa Winkel

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#431267
Dec 30, 2012
 
Chess Jurist wrote:
<quoted text>
I don't hate your post; I welcome it.
But that doesn't change the fact that Allah is pretend and Muhammad was a pedophile.
Yeah! His favourite wife was ONLY 9.

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#431268
Dec 30, 2012
 
Rosa Winkel wrote:
<quoted text>
Yeah! His favourite wife was ONLY 9.
So they say.

“xcntrik.wordpres s.com”

Since: Mar 07

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#431269
Dec 30, 2012
 
Juicylu wrote:
<quoted text>
Lol! It's all good, I know how to defend myself. I'm an equal opportunity opposer when it comes to idiocy. I have a nice Pharisees and Seducees of today link to give him.(thanks X)
Peace :D
;)

Since I don't know what you're pulling out of yor sleeve, here's another good discussion of the sects of late second-temple Judaism.

It's from the Jesus to Christ site
http://www.pbs.org/wgbh/pages/frontline/shows...

Since: Dec 12

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#431270
Dec 30, 2012
 
lightbeamrider wrote:
<quoted text> I got a tattoo while drunk in Hong Kong.
They've been linked with cancer. Think of it as a toxin patch.

“H-o-o-o-o-o-o-ld on thar!”

Since: Sep 08

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#431271
Dec 30, 2012
 
Mylan wrote:
<quoted text>Crock pots can make some of the best food in the world. Chicken and Dumplings comes to mind....
Corned beef...

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#431272
Dec 30, 2012
 
Chess Jurist wrote:
<quoted text>
That's an interesting point. And you are correcrt in a way. But I believe the actual target of Mark's author was the original disciples themselves, and more specifically, the Twelve, and only indirectly their followers. Mark seems to want to discredit the Twelve themselves.
By the time John was written, the target was the Jews in general -- and the Jewish communities that had sprung from the Jerusalem church -- the followers of the Twelve you mentioned.
Markís treatment of the Twelve has caused scholars to wonder what purpose his harshness served. As William Telford describes it, in Mark, the Twelve appear ďfrail, confused, afraid, and humanĒ.* They show numerous failings, such as misunderstanding Jesusí teachings, deserting him, falling asleep on guard duty, and seeking undeserved power and status. Additionally, Peter denies knowing Jesus three times, and Judas ultimately betrays him. Bart Ehrman describes Markís portrayal of the disciples in the following terms:
<quoted text>
Markís treatment of the Twelve is so harsh in fact that the other synoptic writers, according to Ehrman**,ďfelt it necessary to alter, omit, or otherwise tone down Markís treatmentĒ of them.
I think the reason for this, generally, was that at the time of Mark's writing the tension between the Jerusalem church and Pauline Christianity -- perhaps best displayed in Paul's account of his confrontation with Peter at Antioch -- was, as you noted, a very significant issue.
But by the time of John's writing, the dispersed Jerusalem church and the more Hellenistic churches were then in competition for apostolic authority. Churches founded by Paul were seeking to reinvent Peter and crew in their image and claim their authority -- something Mark's author couldn't do with the Jerusalem church being only so recently dispersed and probably some original followers still alive.
* Telford, William R., The Theology of the Gospel of Mark (Cambridge University Press, 1999), p. 131.
** Ehrman, Bart D., Peter, Paul, and Mary Magdalene: The Followers of Jesus in History and Legend (Oxford University Press, 2006), p. 225.
Great points. I think we're pretty much in agreement about everything except for the Markan audience. I've often called Mark's 12 the Keystone Disciples because they're obviously being satired.

I think the author represents the audience in the nameless people throughout the story who are affected by Jesus and understand who he is, while the closest followers fail.

And I think the 16:8 ending, if it is where the Gospel ended, concludes that story perfectly. The disciples never did catch on, but some folks did. They were huddling and waiting for the described return, even in the 70's, which never happened.

But does anyone really know?

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