Why I’m no longer a Christian

“"None shall pass"”

Since: Jul 11

There

#427325 Dec 15, 2012
Clementia wrote:
<quoted text>
You said that love is not perfect, it is, what more do you want from it?
What do yo mean by "perfect" ?

By your opinion of Love it stands to reason that its opposite, Hate, is perfect as well.

“"None shall pass"”

Since: Jul 11

There

#427327 Dec 15, 2012
Clementia wrote:
<quoted text>
"Of what use is it if one sits and meditates like a crane with his eyes closed.
If he takes baths at holy places upto the seventh sea, he loses this world and also the next world.
He spends his life in such, performing evil actions and wastes his life in such pursuits.
I speak the truth, listen everyone, those who have fallen in love, only they have obtained God" -Dasam granth
Do you think my Guru's philosophy is wrong?
We have a 'God', not God!
How is meditating and bathing "evil actions and wastes his life" ?

Yes. I think your fakir is a faker.

“xcntrik.wordpres s.com”

Since: Mar 07

Location hidden

#427328 Dec 15, 2012
Clementia wrote:
<quoted text>
"Of what use is it if one sits and meditates like a crane with his eyes closed.
If he takes baths at holy places upto the seventh sea, he loses this world and also the next world.
He spends his life in such, performing evil actions and wastes his life in such pursuits.
I speak the truth, listen everyone, those who have fallen in love, only they have obtained God" -Dasam granth
Do you think my Guru's philosophy is wrong?
We have a 'God', not God!
I'm sorry, Clementia

I don't respond to strawmen arguments.

Since: Oct 12

Location hidden

#427329 Dec 15, 2012
Xcntrik InVidor wrote:
<quoted text>
You may imagine love to be perfect.
Love is not perfect.
That is the difference between your imagined ideal and reality.
I'm simply trying to help you see the difference between the two.
One exists. One you imagine.
Ok, explain to me.

The love I've read about and seen has been perfect to me.

“"None shall pass"”

Since: Jul 11

There

#427330 Dec 15, 2012
Xcntrik InVidor wrote:
<quoted text>
I'm sorry, Clementia
I don't respond to strawmen arguments.
How did she misrepresent your position ?

Since: Oct 12

Location hidden

#427331 Dec 15, 2012
G_O_D wrote:
<quoted text>
What do yo mean by "perfect" ?
By your opinion of Love it stands to reason that its opposite, Hate, is perfect as well.
Love is when you see the person you love in everyone. You don't harm anyone, you are not greedy, angry, impatient, no ego, no pride, you learn to control your emotions, love makes you perfect.

“What's left to defend?”

Since: Jan 11

Freedom

#427332 Dec 15, 2012
Clementia wrote:
<quoted text>
I have complete faith in my Guru, I can doubt if there is a God or not, but I can never doubt my Guru! God can be wrong, this world can be wrong, but my Guru's teachings will always be true!
Gurus are human, and humans are fallible.

Don't let the atheists get you down. We're a tough crowd, but a fair one.

(Actually I can't speak for atheists anymore than I can speak for all of mankind.)

Happy birthday!

Since: Oct 12

Location hidden

#427333 Dec 15, 2012
G_O_D wrote:
<quoted text>
How is meditating and bathing "evil actions and wastes his life" ?
Yes. I think your fakir is a faker.
These people that Guru ji is talking about, bathed at holy shrines and meditated, but did not allow the 'untouchables' to enter the hindu temple, as they were too dirty for God.

Muslim fanatics go to mecca and medina but they blow up children.

These people see God in buildings and stones, but they see no God in human-beings! There rituals then become meaningless and evil.

Guru ji is saying what is the point of meditating and bathing at holy places, if your mind is still filthy??

Since: Oct 12

Location hidden

#427334 Dec 15, 2012
Xcntrik InVidor wrote:
<quoted text>
I'm sorry, Clementia
I don't respond to strawmen arguments.
What makes you think that you have all the answers?

Did I ever attack atheism? Did I ever say atheists are going to hell. I respected your belief, but you and the other poster attacked mine.

I never say anything to christians/muslims too but they keep telling me i'm going to hell for having a different belief, that's when I get pissed off and tell them to leave me alone, if they got nothing nice to say, I don't want to argue with them.

You don't understand that you did the exact same thing to me that christians/muslims do. You assume your belief/non-belief is correct and i'm ignorant and that i'm going to get a shock when I find out I'm wrong.

We live in a world where we all have our own brains, there will always be people who believe in something different to you, but we have to learn to live together, we should not be attacking each other.

My belief is my personal belief, it will never harm you or anyone else, so why do you fear it? I don't fear atheism! I don't say people who don't believe in God are going to kill me, because of their belief.

“xcntrik.wordpres s.com”

Since: Mar 07

Location hidden

#427335 Dec 15, 2012
Clementia wrote:
<quoted text>
Ok, explain to me.
The love I've read about and seen has been perfect to me.
People love. People are flawed. Ergo: Love is flawed.

Example: My wife, whom I love above all else, is pregnant with a daughter, who I already love in an indescribable way, even though she has not yet been born. I will, at some point, fail them both, because I am not perfect.

The men and/or women who wrote these sacred writings of yours were people who chose what to write and what to omit. Your guru is also a person, with flaws like any other human, and probably doesn't share your idealized perspective of himself. Ask him. He may tell you that some of his greatest lessons have come from his own failures.

There is nothing wrong with expecting and gleening wisdom from wise people. To assume for one moment that everything they say or teach will always be true is both naive and dangerous.

Free advice: If ANYONE, myself included, tells you that their words are above question, you should flee with great haste.

Since: Oct 12

Location hidden

#427336 Dec 15, 2012
Tide with Beach wrote:
<quoted text>
Gurus are human, and humans are fallible.
Don't let the atheists get you down. We're a tough crowd, but a fair one.
(Actually I can't speak for atheists anymore than I can speak for all of mankind.)
Happy birthday!
I know they (gurus) are, but some humans make more mistakes than others. They tried their best to bring peace, but humans want to keep fighting.

Thank you!:-)

It's not much of a birthday coz I keep feeling guilty for being happy when people are dying everywhere.

“xcntrik.wordpres s.com”

Since: Mar 07

Location hidden

#427337 Dec 15, 2012
G_O_D wrote:
<quoted text>
How did she misrepresent your position ?
Aren't you paying attention, G?

Look at the initial statement regarding the guru's teaching always being right.

Look at my response to the initial statement.

Look at the new argument, anticipating a response to one individual teaching, rather than the initial claim

A new argument was created for me, just like you did the other day.

If you have further questions, let me know.

Since: Oct 12

Location hidden

#427338 Dec 15, 2012
Xcntrik InVidor wrote:
<quoted text>
People love. People are flawed. Ergo: Love is flawed.
Example: My wife, whom I love above all else, is pregnant with a daughter, who I already love in an indescribable way, even though she has not yet been born. I will, at some point, fail them both, because I am not perfect.
The men and/or women who wrote these sacred writings of yours were people who chose what to write and what to omit. Your guru is also a person, with flaws like any other human, and probably doesn't share your idealized perspective of himself. Ask him. He may tell you that some of his greatest lessons have come from his own failures.
There is nothing wrong with expecting and gleening wisdom from wise people. To assume for one moment that everything they say or teach will always be true is both naive and dangerous.
Free advice: If ANYONE, myself included, tells you that their words are above question, you should flee with great haste.
They did, the guru's said, " I'm the one that is not good, no-one else is bad"..."i'm an ignorant fool..."a dog"... they never said they were perfect, but in MY eyes they were 'perfect' coz they tried there best.

People in this world think that emotional attachment is love, love is very rare, we think we love people but we actually don't.

The guru's wrote the GGS themselves.

That's your opinion and I respect that, but for me I love my guru's and whatever they said, I will try to listen to them.

Since: Oct 12

Location hidden

#427339 Dec 15, 2012
i meant THEIR

“xcntrik.wordpres s.com”

Since: Mar 07

Location hidden

#427340 Dec 15, 2012
Clementia wrote:
<quoted text>
What makes you think that you have all the answers?
Could you show me where I ever claimed to have all the answers?

A quotation or a post number would be appreciated.

Or are you creating a moster to battle?

“What's left to defend?”

Since: Jan 11

Freedom

#427341 Dec 15, 2012
Clementia wrote:
I know they (gurus) are, but some humans make more mistakes than others. They tried their best to bring peace, but humans want to keep fighting.
Happy, healthy, prosperous humans generally do not want to keep fighting.

If we're ever going to to have peace, we will need to reduce those inequities that lead to conflict.
Clementia wrote:
Thank you!:-)
It's not much of a birthday coz I keep feeling guilty for being happy when people are dying everywhere.
Be happy! You feeling sad isn't going to stop people from dying, but you being a positive influence on other people makes their lives just a little bit better.

“xcntrik.wordpres s.com”

Since: Mar 07

Location hidden

#427342 Dec 15, 2012
Clementia wrote:
<quoted text>
They did, the guru's said, " I'm the one that is not good, no-one else is bad"..."i'm an ignorant fool..."a dog"... they never said they were perfect, but in MY eyes they were 'perfect' coz they tried there best.
People in this world think that emotional attachment is love, love is very rare, we think we love people but we actually don't.
The guru's wrote the GGS themselves.
That's your opinion and I respect that, but for me I love my guru's and whatever they said, I will try to listen to them.
You're again confusing your ideal with reality,

even when your own teaching just warned you against that very thing.

“"None shall pass"”

Since: Jul 11

There

#427343 Dec 15, 2012
Xcntrik InVidor wrote:
<quoted text>
Aren't you paying attention, G?
Look at the initial statement regarding the guru's teaching always being right.
Look at my response to the initial statement.
Look at the new argument, anticipating a response to one individual teaching, rather than the initial claim
A new argument was created for me, just like you did the other day.
If you have further questions, let me know.
She asked what is either a rhetorical question (that would be have be a nice change) or a useless one. No matter the answer, she will only accept the one she believes to be true.

Did she misrepresent any position of yours ?
Nope.
That isn't a strawman argument.

"A strawman arguement is a fallacy based on misrepresentation of an opponent's position." -'How to Win Every Argument: The Use and Abuse of Logic', Madsen Pirie

Since: Oct 12

Location hidden

#427344 Dec 15, 2012
Xcntrik InVidor wrote:
<quoted text>
Could you show me where I ever claimed to have all the answers?
A quotation or a post number would be appreciated.
Or are you creating a moster to battle?
The way the other poster(water) said my belief was made up and you said "oh my, you're going to get a shock" or something like that, it made be feel like you think i'm ignorant and crazy, she even called me a "fundie". You guys started attacking me. And she said my histroy is made up.

What's a moster to battle?

Since: Oct 12

Location hidden

#427345 Dec 15, 2012
Tide with Beach wrote:
<quoted text>
Happy, healthy, prosperous humans generally do not want to keep fighting.
If we're ever going to to have peace, we will need to reduce those inequities that lead to conflict.
<quoted text>
Be happy! You feeling sad isn't going to stop people from dying, but you being a positive influence on other people makes their lives just a little bit better.
I agree!

thanks!:-)

I can't believe I never argued with atheists and now I have. You see, you are an atheist, I try to understand you and you try to understand me, but some atheists/religious people try to force their belief/non-belief on you and try to hurt you. This forcing thing has nothing to do with religion, some people just want to force their opinion on you.

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