Why I知 no longer a Christian

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“I Am No One Else”

Since: Apr 12

Seattle

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#424972
Dec 7, 2012
 

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lightbeamrider wrote:
<quoted text> Oh you know? What you mean is your mind is fixed and the facts would not matter.
<quoted text> No historical scholar takes these claims seriously. Even Ehrman. It is a dead issue with them but you know more than groups of PH.Ds in relevent fields. If it is all the same to you will stick with the experts on this one.
<quoted text> I provided you with evidence from an expert who is agnostic who leans towards atheism. I referenced you to read a book. I have no control over the fact you either ignore or it bounces off your thick head because it is expert information you do not want to hear.
<quoted text> First you need to demonstrate a connect. Next you need to demonstrate Hercules had 12 labors from reliable sources. Hercules myth despised by 1st Century Jews.
<quoted text> The core principal of your life is based on a lie.(atheism) This lie brings consequences.
You should work in a theater, you have a knack for projection.

“I Am No One Else”

Since: Apr 12

Seattle

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#424973
Dec 7, 2012
 
waaasssuuup wrote:
<quoted text>
JESUS IS GOD, HE CAME AS A MAN AND WE HAVE PROOF - just read some of the good news this morning!
Conflating "proof" with assertion still, I see, well, I give you one thing, you never change.
Mike

Ashburn, VA

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#424974
Dec 7, 2012
 
rest

“I Am No One Else”

Since: Apr 12

Seattle

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#424975
Dec 7, 2012
 
waaasssuuup wrote:
<quoted text>
and yet for some strange reason you don't feel sorry for me but rather i make you mad and you feel the need to insult & disprove me - WHY???
There's nothing to disprove, until you provide evidence we have nothing to address, therefore the only thing left to do is watch you spin and spin.
John

Ashburn, VA

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#424976
Dec 7, 2012
 
Rotskill

“I Am No One Else”

Since: Apr 12

Seattle

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#424977
Dec 7, 2012
 
Skombolis wrote:
<quoted text>
Next time someone says that give them this
http://www.provethebible.net/T2-Divin/D-0201....
Yep, instead of giving anyone any actual evidence, just offer them lame excuses. That's a great tactic, if you're 3 and trying to blame the dog.
Hakuna matata

Ireland

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#424978
Dec 7, 2012
 
Jumbo
Johnny

Tokyo, Japan

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#424979
Dec 7, 2012
 
Should be done fast

“What do I know?”

Since: Apr 08

Rings of Saturn Emporium

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#424980
Dec 7, 2012
 
waaasssuuup wrote:
<quoted text>
"...but you are definitely in the Top Two"
i won't be content until i became the undisputed # one among the God haters; then, i'll know that i'm representing My Father.
"the reproaches of them that hate You have fallen on me" king David, speaking on how persecution should look;)
I don't think I've ever met anyone who "hates" god.

Or Santa Claus or Paul Bunyan, for that matter.

“Don't be so dichotomous.”

Since: Jan 11

Embrace the grey.

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#424981
Dec 7, 2012
 
Skombolis wrote:
.....
As for spirituality not meaning believing in supernatural that is only because you guys redefined spiritual and that is fine. But what I refer to is those that claim when they still believed in God they had spiritual experiences when asked why stay in a faith all those years if they never felt the touch of God. And science and faith doesn't have to be all one or all the other for someone willing to look at the world through every lense.
We can explain all spiritual experiences as brain experiences, and human universals, independent any religious beliefs.

"Supernatural" is a placeholder label for things that aren't real. Where once magical illusion was called supernatural, it is now just called magical illusion. There's nothing truly magical about it. They are tricks designed to appear magical. Lightening was once a mystery to people, so many considered it a magical or supernatural event. Some believed lightening came from gods. For every intriguing mystery, there was probably a supernatural explanation. When these mysteries are solved, the supernatural explanations are no longer compelling. This is the "god of the gaps".

Spirituality is no longer a mystery. Maybe it is to those that still want to believe that it is tied to the supernatural realm. It's not that different from lightening, except that it takes place inside our brains. That makes it harder to study and be objective about, however, if we are to attempt at all to explain these "spiritual experiences", we must strive towards objectivity. To do that, we must dismiss all the various subjective explanations for these experiences.

To seek answers, at the expense of finding the truth, subjective explanations will work fine. Seeking the truth may not lead to answers in all cases, but at least we are not giving up, and giving credit to our favorite fantasy.

It's all too easy to say "Goddidit".

“xcntrik.wordpres s.com”

Since: Mar 07

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#424982
Dec 7, 2012
 

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Introduction to the Afterlife A Brief History of Greco-Roman Religion

http://department.monm.edu/classics/courses/i...

MYSTERY CULTS

By taking part in prescribed rites, the worshiper unites himself with the god or goddess, becomes part of a community, and receives the reward of a special kind of immortality.

The central myth of a mystery religion concerns the life of a savior-god or human hero whose experiences enable him or her to offer followers the knowledge and reward of salvation. Part of the ritual usually consists of the acting out of the myth, which is often connected with the agricultural cycle of the year, the basis of fertility and renewal of life.

An important point to remember is that with the exception of Judaism (and later Christianity) ancient religions were not exclusive. People continued to pay homage to the gods of the state in which they were born. Any mystery cult an individual joined was in addition to his native religion.
Hippie

Tokyo, Japan

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#424983
Dec 7, 2012
 
uppity

“H-o-o-o-o-o-o-ld on thar!”

Since: Sep 08

The Borderland of Sol

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#424984
Dec 7, 2012
 
karl44 wrote:
<quoted text>
the utterances of a god contain error?
*GASP!*

*thud*

“Don't be so dichotomous.”

Since: Jan 11

Embrace the grey.

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#424985
Dec 7, 2012
 
Skombolis wrote:
Its the same point regardless. Man will never run out of reasons to kill one another be in power, greed, hate, fear, anger, etc. You are kidding yourself if you think otherwise.
That's a terrible thing to say. Look at America. We've come a long way. Look at most of the world. We see just about every bad thing that happens now in the news, but overall, we are progressing as a species. We also have the capacity to progress much farther. Do you not care if we get better? Would you not try? The problems we face are not insurmountable.
Skombolis wrote:
And the guys that flew the planes into a building was not because of religion per se. It is because terrorist groups like Al Qaeda recruit in the most poverty-stricten, war-torn, violence-ravaged places they can.
And they told them they'll get virgins in Heaven. They didn't offer them money or a peaceful life. They used the best possible tool, faith, to perpetuate their madness. Faith and religion are like weapons in the hands of terrorists. But I will admit, the other determining factors that lead to terrorism are likely the stronger factors. I just don't see someone suicide bombing without thinking they'll be okay in the afterlife.
Skombolis wrote:
They find kids who have seen parents raped and killed and sisters and brothers burned and have nothing but hate for the world and they give them a target for their hate while promising them a better life when they die. Al Qaeda acts more like a political terrorist group than a religious one but uses religion as it recruitment mechanism. But you really think if they didn't have religion those same terrorists wouldn't still be committing the same terrorist acts?
I think they'd be committing different acts. I'd predict less suicidal attacks. They are also indoctrinated with righteousness which is a powerful justification for committing terrible acts. The religious aspect makes terrorists more dangerous, but I couldn't say to what degree.
Skombolis wrote:
Or people that hate each other over religion wouldn't hate each other over nationalism? There is no utopia coming my friend, with or without religion.
The solution is education and rational skepticism. When I dropped religion, I was also able to drop nationalism. Seeing through one manipulation allows a person to see through many more.
Skombolis wrote:
Of course socialization and environment play a role but what about violence the world over since the dawn of man that had nothing to do with religion? Just bad parenting? Man has a selfish nature
People didn't have the benefit of the lessons of history.
Skombolis wrote:
I never said good acts couldn't be done without faith. And first of all it is a loaded question to ask if I would be ok with manipulating people to do more good than they normally would as you would have to give some type of example. But again this is what you don't understand about faith. You take something that drives a lot of people to want to become better human beings and somehow have a problem with that?
It seems, some people require faith and religion to make them better human beings. I don't, so I can say that it is unnecessary.
Skombolis wrote:
Whatever your complaints are with religion, that certainly can't be one of them. Unless you just want to deny all the good religion motivates people to do and pretend like faith is all bad because you don't like it. Otherwise you need to look at it objectively. And if the violence doesn't go away and people do more good because of it, what do you accomplish? There are battles worth fighting, some can even be won, some those of faith would even help you with. You make enemies of a group of millions upon millions for no reason stereotyping based on the extremists. For most people faith is a good thing in their life.
I consider religion to be humanity's training wheels. Increasingly unnecessary.

“Live Love Laugh”

Since: Aug 07

Rings of Saturn Emporium

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#424986
Dec 7, 2012
 
Skombolis wrote:
<quoted text>
Yet you stayed in it for 60 years and didn't leave until coincidentally everybody you decided you enjoyed hanging out with on Topix was against it. You should have learned during that 60 years that your belief in God has nothing to do with how others practice their faith. If every other Christian in the world acted terrible it wouldn't stop me from being a Christian any more than if every human in the world acted terrible it wouldn't stop me from being human. It is who I am and has nothing to do with anybody else
You keep demonstrating why it is it was so easy for you to go with the crowd. If indeed you did. Although I suspect you never really cared much one way or the other. I saw some of the same fervor if you will when defending Christianity when you first got here to those who were attacking it. I even saw you insulting X. So you were not on the fence at all imo. Just the more time you spent on Topix the more you decided you liked the other side. You are welcome to it. Me, I can be friends with people like Micah, Hip, Chess, X, etc and I don't have to sell out my faith. I can't talk to you about faith because I don't find anything you say to be credible. It is a regurgitation of what you have heard others say or thing they will like to hear. You were defending Christianity in the same manner when you showed up
I have freely admitted that I stayed too long.

You can think I left so I could 'hang out' with others if you like.

You yourself have had lots of questions. The difference between you and me is that I looked at all the sources and didn't pick apart the Bible for the parts I believed in and tossed the rest.

You have rewritten the Bible for yourself to make it more palatable. I finally took it as it was and found it immoral and unethical to continue being a Christian. Changing what it says to suit your own morality doesn't work. It still says what it says. You can't change that fact. All you can do is change it in your own mind to suit yourself. This is what all Christians do, but won't admit.

No, you don't have to sell out your faith, but you have. Every time you disagree with the Bible and rewrite it to say what you want it to say, you sell it out. I didn't do that. You can't stand to think that someone would knowingly leave your religion. That makes you uncomfortable because of the questions you have.

Don't worry. As long as you can keep rewriting it to suit yourself without any moral or ethical obligation to yourself to do otherwise, you'll stay with it.

“Live Love Laugh”

Since: Aug 07

Rings of Saturn Emporium

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#424987
Dec 7, 2012
 
Black Thunder 42 wrote:
<quoted text>
Excellent.
And even at that, one would have to go back to the beginnings of the Hebrew origins to understand the "whole" history and how it developed(evolved). Who Abram was and where he came from, and why(who was he [really?]. Somewhere in that juncture one finds that Christna(Vishnu) is nearly identical to the entity of Jesus...only thousands of years earlier.
That is even just the tip of the iceberg.
Truth really doesn't destroy the central ideology-just the organized machine of surrounding lies for profit and control.
I agree.

“let's do this thang!”

Since: Aug 10

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#424988
Dec 7, 2012
 

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Skombolis wrote:
<quoted text>
Next time someone says that give them this
http://www.provethebible.net/T2-Divin/D-0201....
thank you, but we know that even God coming to the earth to prove Himself won't be enough cause for someone who loves darkness to turn to the Light.

anyone who's truly objective would not be opposing us on a thread like this:)

“Live Love Laugh”

Since: Aug 07

Rings of Saturn Emporium

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#424989
Dec 7, 2012
 

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Skombolis wrote:
<quoted text>
Had no choice mac
While i saw W-N try to say I felt brow-beaten by a woman, which is weird since that would be sexist if a guy said that, nothing could be further from the truth. It is very easy to deal with her. But when someone repeatedly misquotes you, looks to start a fight, and is disrespectful then yeah at a point i take the kid-gloves off. Most people I do so almost immediately. Because of you I waited. But no way I let anybody lie about me and insult me for free. Of course i knew that decision would lead to what it did as no way in hell you were ever going to step in and say "hey thought you guys decided to make peace, why 11 straight posts to him looking to fight and I don't that is what he was saying in most of them".
And again, I don't blame you for that, I understand the situation. But don't act like I crossed some line that it hard to cross. Nobody would sit back and let people lie about them or daily post to them 8-9-10-11 times looking to fight and do nothing. And the respect i show is the respect i am given. It would be waaay different if she was being respectful and i wasn't, as it is, it simply is what it is and led to what it led to. But I gave you all you were owed and more out of respect when it came to trying to respond civilly.
I didn't say YOU felt browbeaten by a woman. It's basically what you accused mac of being. And yes, it is sexist.

I didn't lie about you. You told Mac I tell him how to think. Boy, you don't know Mac at all if you truly think that. He'd bow up faster than a rattlesnake at that. But it's your way of telling yourself that's what happened between you & Mac instead of seeing that you were the cause of the loss of his friendship.

I haven't been respectful to you in a long time. You lost all my respect not only for what you said to me, but what you said to and about Mac.

You are still on my fecal matter list for that, and the way you are going it won't change.

Every time you get into an argument with someone, whether it's here or on WSJLM or another site, you always say it's someone else's fault. You never have taken responsibility for your own words.

That's fine. Go ahead and continue to whine and cry. I don't think there's a single person who cares how much you act like a scorned teenager.

“H-o-o-o-o-o-o-ld on thar!”

Since: Sep 08

The Borderland of Sol

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#424990
Dec 7, 2012
 

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Skombolis wrote:
<quoted text>
Had no choice mac
While i saw W-N try to say I felt brow-beaten by a woman, which is weird since that would be sexist if a guy said that, nothing could be further from the truth. It is very easy to deal with her. But when someone repeatedly misquotes you, looks to start a fight, and is disrespectful then yeah at a point i take the kid-gloves off. Most people I do so almost immediately. Because of you I waited. But no way I let anybody lie about me and insult me for free. Of course i knew that decision would lead to what it did as no way in hell you were ever going to step in and say "hey thought you guys decided to make peace, why 11 straight posts to him looking to fight and I don't that is what he was saying in most of them".
And again, I don't blame you for that, I understand the situation. But don't act like I crossed some line that it hard to cross. Nobody would sit back and let people lie about them or daily post to them 8-9-10-11 times looking to fight and do nothing. And the respect i show is the respect i am given. It would be waaay different if she was being respectful and i wasn't, as it is, it simply is what it is and led to what it led to. But I gave you all you were owed and more out of respect when it came to trying to respond civilly.
Oh, where to start...

You most certainly did have a choice. You chose assholery, insult and attack - common tactics among the outmaneuvered underthinkers.

Judging purely from the evidence you've presented here, you do in fact feel threatened by and mere woman who dares disagree with you - especially on a subject you must feel insecure about. After all, all fundies MUST know, on some level, that what they're espousing is nonsense. Unless, of course, they still believe in Santa.
Confronted by any such woman, you immediately interpret the disagreement as an "assault" - this, in your reasoning, gives you the right to respond in kind.

(Your use of the word "disrespectful" is profoundly telling. Do you really expect "respect" from those to whom you've not shown it? Or from those who care for them?)
It's a dishonest and disproportionate reaction. And again, on some level and however dimly, you're aware of that.

Rewording what you've said, for clarity and to show how internally flawed your reasoning is, is not "misquoting". It's reducing your argument to its essentials in order to demonstrate its lack of rationality.(Just to be clear, I chose that word a-purpouse - that which lacks rationality is, by definition, "irrational")

Yes, it's easy to interact with Nymph. Eschew the bullshit. Act as though you were face-to-face.
D'you think you could get away with the kind of attack IRL that you expect to get away with here?

As for the number of straight posts, I've repeatedly seen you fill up entire pages with your complaints about imagined slights. Your middle name wouldn't be Jeremiah (AKA "The Whiner"), would it?

While I think on't, you seem from this post to expect "respect" before returning it. That's not how it works. Respect must be earned - and frankly, you haven't.

I'm really, really sorry if our parting-of-the-ways broke your little heart.

Wait, no, I'm not.

Get over it.

“Don't be so dichotomous.”

Since: Jan 11

Embrace the grey.

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#424991
Dec 7, 2012
 
@Skombolis

I have to concede that the 9/11 attacks could have been carried out by people who had non-religious brainwashing. It's possible that they could have been willing to die with nationalistic brainwashing, revenge brainwashing, heroic vigilante brainwashing, or who knows what else.

Religious brainwashing was the best choice though. You can remove much of the fear of death, provide the best possible justification, and you have the support of an existing religious structure to provide peer pressure. All this adds up to the best possible way to create a suicidal and effective terrorist.

I have a very good imagination, and I can't think of a better way to create a terrorist. I can come pretty close with a revenge-of-a-loved-one scheme of brainwashing, mixed with vigilante heroism and altruism. Ridding the world of evil while avenging the person most precious to you would be a powerful motivation. You would just need to brainwash the person into believing that YOUR enemy is the same as THEIR enemy, and blow up their motivations to the point of obsession. They would basically be in a state of anxious misery until they get to the point where it seems like they will succeed with their terrorist act. It would be like severe drug withdrawal until they get that "fix".

Killing for a god, something higher and incomprehensible, can surpass any other motivation. It defines the limits of human capability. Since it relies on our imagination, that is where it is limited, at the very top. Any other motivation could be included as part of it. Using that type of brainwashing, I would suspect the person carrying out the terrorist act to be on a super spiritual high the entire time, gradually increasing until the moment of perceived success, where it peaks. It's likely a totally positive experience for them, leaving almost no room for an outsider to influence them. In the other example, the brainwashed person is likely suffering while carrying out the terrorist act. An outsider offering relief from that might have success.

I'm speculating quite a bit because I'm not an expert.

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