Why I’m no longer a Christian

“let's do this thang!”

Since: Aug 10

Location hidden

#424958 Dec 7, 2012
A Former Liberal wrote:
<quoted text>
Having "waaasssuuup" lie to me and then call me "friend" pisses me off.
i asked you to specify where i may have offended or lied, friend:)

“SPEBSQSA”

Since: Aug 08

Maryland

#424959 Dec 7, 2012
A Former Liberal wrote:
<quoted text>
I have serious doubts about waaasssuuup's sanity. He makes up the stupidest things, and tries to pass them off as commonly known facts.
I don't know how far back you've been involved with his posts but he's made some pretty wild claims about raising people from the dead and removing demons that are good for a laugh.
His credibility is zero.

“let's do this thang!”

Since: Aug 10

Location hidden

#424960 Dec 7, 2012
A Former Liberal wrote:
<quoted text>
You have zero evidence from history that your jesus ever existed. The bible is a self-contradictory mish-mash of stolen mythology and outright lies, and anyone who believes in a historicized jesus whose roots are in the mythical one is...well, you get the picture.
"You have zero evidence from history..."

now THIS is a blatant lie so it's no wonder why you would accuse someone who owns a Bible of being a liar!

“let's do this thang!”

Since: Aug 10

Location hidden

#424961 Dec 7, 2012
A Former Liberal wrote:
<quoted text>
<quoted text>
I do hope you are referring to Carl Sagan.
<quoted text>
No it doesn't. I read the thing. Please don't lie to me.
<quoted text>
Don't accuse him of your crimes, waaasssuuup. I've read your insane rants.
i guess that until you can say "blessed is he (me-waaasssuuup) who comes in the Name of the Lord" we really don't have much to discuss:)

“let's do this thang!”

Since: Aug 10

Location hidden

#424962 Dec 7, 2012
A Former Liberal wrote:
<quoted text>
You falsely claimed that I said I don't answer to any laws. I never said any such thing. I said I don't answer to your religion's laws, any more than I answer to sharia law.
okay, i'm sorry. NOW can we be BFF?:)

Since: Mar 09

Location hidden

#424963 Dec 7, 2012
Tide with Beach wrote:
<quoted text>
A hypothetical history without faith and religion would look nothing like our history. Whatever difference that removed the need for faith in humans may have also removed other erroneous tendencies. There's no use speculating about a hypothetical history. I'd rather speculate about the future..
Its the same point regardless. Man will never run out of reasons to kill one another be in power, greed, hate, fear, anger, etc. You are kidding yourself if you think otherwise. And the guys that flew the planes into a building was not because of religion per se. It is because terrorist groups like Al Qaeda recruit in the most poverty-stricten, war-torn, violence-ravaged places they can. They find kids who have seen parents raped and killed and sisters and brothers burned and have nothing but hate for the world and they give them a target for their hate while promising them a better life when they die. Al Qaeda acts more like a political terrorist group than a religious one but uses religion as it recruitment mechanism. But you really think if they didn't have religion those same terrorists wouldn't still be committing the same terrorist acts? Or people that hate each other over religion wouldn't hate each other over nationalism? There is no utopia coming my friend, with or without religion.
Tide with Beach wrote:
<quoted text>
I think you are completely wrong. Humans are shaped by their upbringing. Whatever our base nature, we can learn to get along with one another. I feel that religion is a hindrance to that effort, on a global scale.
Of course socialization and environment play a role but what about violence the world over since the dawn of man that had nothing to do with religion? Just bad parenting? Man has a selfish nature
Tide with Beach wrote:
<quoted text>
There are no "good acts" that can't also be done by those that don't have faith.
Whatever good they do, they could do without faith or religion.
<quoted text>
Some would. Some do. I suppose we could manipulate the public into a forced communistic ideology, if it meant doing more good for more people. Would you be alright with manipulating people into doing more good than they naturally would?
To be continued...
I never said good acts couldn't be done without faith. And first of all it is a loaded question to ask if I would be ok with manipulating people to do more good than they normally would as you would have to give some type of example. But again this is what you don't understand about faith. You take something that drives a lot of people to want to become better human beings and somehow have a problem with that? Whatever your complaints are with religion, that certainly can't be one of them. Unless you just want to deny all the good religion motivates people to do and pretend like faith is all bad because you don't like it. Otherwise you need to look at it objectively. And if the violence doesn't go away and people do more good because of it, what do you accomplish? There are battles worth fighting, some can even be won, some those of faith would even help you with. You make enemies of a group of millions upon millions for no reason stereotyping based on the extremists. For most people faith is a good thing in their life.

“let's do this thang!”

Since: Aug 10

Location hidden

#424964 Dec 7, 2012
A Former Liberal wrote:
<quoted text>
<quoted text>
That is about as uninformed an opinion as I've heard yet. And you attempt to push such uninformed opinions as "fact."
<quoted text>
There is no such thing as a "scientist religion." So there you go lying to me again.
Why do you feel you must lie to me?
<quoted text>
You need to look up the definition of the word "religion." Or do you merely rely on your own definitions?
<quoted text>
You cannot prove that there -is- a god.
bottom line - i cannot prove to you that there is a God yet i believe that there is. you call this 'religion'.

you cannot prove to me that there isn't a god, yet you believe there is not. i call that 'religion'.

how fair is that???

Since: Mar 09

Location hidden

#424965 Dec 7, 2012
waaasssuuup wrote:
<quoted text>
"You have zero evidence from history..."
now THIS is a blatant lie so it's no wonder why you would accuse someone who owns a Bible of being a liar!
Next time someone says that give them this

http://www.provethebible.net/T2-Divin/D-0201....

“let's do this thang!”

Since: Aug 10

Location hidden

#424966 Dec 7, 2012
A Former Liberal wrote:
<quoted text>
<quoted text>
Irony, thy name is Waaasssuuup.
Don't you understand that when you declare that there -is- a god, and that there -are- castles in the sky (as you did to me), and that there -is- eternal life, do you not see that you are making claims that -you- cannot possibly know for sure?
<quoted text>
You may not be the biggest hypocrite here, but you are definitely in the Top Two.
JESUS IS GOD, HE CAME AS A MAN AND WE HAVE PROOF - just read some of the good news this morning!

“let's do this thang!”

Since: Aug 10

Location hidden

#424967 Dec 7, 2012
A Former Liberal wrote:
<quoted text>
I have serious doubts about waaasssuuup's sanity. He makes up the stupidest things, and tries to pass them off as commonly known facts.
and yet for some strange reason you don't feel sorry for me but rather i make you mad and you feel the need to insult & disprove me - WHY???

“let's do this thang!”

Since: Aug 10

Location hidden

#424968 Dec 7, 2012
A Former Liberal wrote:
<quoted text>
<quoted text>
Irony, thy name is Waaasssuuup.
Don't you understand that when you declare that there -is- a god, and that there -are- castles in the sky (as you did to me), and that there -is- eternal life, do you not see that you are making claims that -you- cannot possibly know for sure?
<quoted text>
You may not be the biggest hypocrite here, but you are definitely in the Top Two.
"...but you are definitely in the Top Two"

i won't be content until i became the undisputed # one among the God haters; then, i'll know that i'm representing My Father.

"the reproaches of them that hate You have fallen on me" king David, speaking on how persecution should look;)

“BE BRAVE ENOUGH ”

Since: Oct 09

TO STEP IN MUD PUDDLES

#424969 Dec 7, 2012
Skombolis wrote:
<quoted text>
To me it is the arrogance from some on both sides that annoys me. If both sides agree it can't be proven as far as God and nobody can prove how life started or how the universe started and every form of life that we know has a creator making the idea at least plausible even to those who don't believe, then there should be no reason for mocking. And for those who don't believe, there should be no reason to mock them as it is not reasonable to expect people to believe in something there is absolutely no proof for and some people are very empirically-minded.
But the condescending comments and the arrogance from both sides to each other at times gets on my nerves. The stereotyping also.
If all people want to do is rip on each other and that is what they come to Topix for then that s fine I guess, I am not going ot pretend there is some standard on an Internet chat-room that doesn't exist. But if people actually have any interest in getting along with their fellow human beings better and understanding each other better then they should make more of an effort to talk to one another. Not every conversation needs to have an end-goal of getting the "win". It may simply help someone to understand where someone else is coming from
JMO anyway
(T) Peace
A question...

Let's leave out the carrot and the stick...heaven and hell...for this question.

Without those...

Is there a reason for anyone...or you specifically...to believe in God/Jesus? What do you think that advantage is over someone who doesn't?

“BE BRAVE ENOUGH ”

Since: Oct 09

TO STEP IN MUD PUDDLES

#424970 Dec 7, 2012
waaasssuuup wrote:
<quoted text>
JESUS IS GOD, HE CAME AS A MAN AND WE HAVE PROOF - just read some of the good news this morning!
If you have proof then you have no faith...proof requires none.

Since: Jan 11

Location hidden

#424971 Dec 7, 2012
Skombolis wrote:
This is the main thing you don't understand about faith. Nobody sets out and says, "I am looking for something to accept on faith. I would prefer to believe instead of having facts that prove it."
This is the second or third time that you have been wrong in telling me what I understand. You should try just asking me if I do.

People don't necessarily go out looking for faith or religion. They are just naturally very open to it because of the needs that they have. If they were consciously aware of the needs, and the link between those needs to faith and religion, they wouldn't be able to justify adopting a faith based belief to satisfy those needs. It would appear disingenuous in their minds, so these connections are prevented from taking place. The subconscious leaks motivation into our conscious mind to see that needs are met whenever consciously evaluating the needs and the solutions would result in irreconcilable cognitive dissonance.
Skombolis wrote:
Why do you think so many people normally empirically-minded in all other areas have faith when it comes to God?
Because they have no choice. I suspect the "god need" is greater in some than in others. That seems to be the case. I have very little god need myself.
Skombolis wrote:
And no I don't mean indoctrination although I won't pretend that doesn't play a part for some.
Manipulation plays a part in almost every case of belief adoption. It's necessary to manipulate, to play on peoples weaknesses, to make fallacious appeals, in order to get them to believe in something supernatural without evidence. The level of manipulation varies, but it's almost always present. I only say "almost" to allow for those instances where people are so gullible you could just hand them a piece of paper with a list of claims and they immediately believe them all. You don't need to manipulate someone who will believe absolutely anything.
Skombolis wrote:
But I essentially left the faith (not a requirement but certainly makes it hard to argue indoctrination) and wanted nothing more than to believe God didn't exist. I was in bad shape and had some difficult choices to make in order to literally survive and the last thing I needed was the burden of God to add into the mix. But no matter how much I tried to convince myself otherwise I have seen too much and trust me, when your faith is really weak is why it is the hardest to walk away. I would explain how things happen that make it impossible to deny but you wouldn't believe me so let's just say for me despite wanting to not believe there is just too much spiritual proof in the world for a believer to deny it.
I can't argue with you there, any more than I could argue with any person who has committed to a subjective reality (delusion).
Skombolis wrote:
(snip)
It is the same thing. You can't believe in anything that isn't proven to you as fact. That is fine. In fact, for most things that is the smart way to go. I do wish though you could see how that would limit you in certain areas
Again, you are wrong. I don't absolutely need facts. I can work with plausible possibilities. I only agree with a claim to the extent that it is warranted through my evaluation.
Skombolis wrote:
As for saying how do I know God wouldn't show up and take a crap on me, c'mon. Either admit it is a level or discourse unworthy of the discussions we are trying to have or ignore it all together but don't justify it.
I was colorfully illustrating my point, that for all we know, a god could be or do absolutely anything, including taking a god dump on a man beast. You are the one inviting distraction here.

What if a god came and erased the human race because we were polluting the Earth? What if a god came and f_cked with our brains and made us like obedient robots? What if it kidnapped some girls for a sexy party? Anything is possible where nothing is impossible.

“I Am No One Else”

Since: Apr 12

Seattle

#424972 Dec 7, 2012
lightbeamrider wrote:
<quoted text> Oh you know? What you mean is your mind is fixed and the facts would not matter.
<quoted text> No historical scholar takes these claims seriously. Even Ehrman. It is a dead issue with them but you know more than groups of PH.Ds in relevent fields. If it is all the same to you will stick with the experts on this one.
<quoted text> I provided you with evidence from an expert who is agnostic who leans towards atheism. I referenced you to read a book. I have no control over the fact you either ignore or it bounces off your thick head because it is expert information you do not want to hear.
<quoted text> First you need to demonstrate a connect. Next you need to demonstrate Hercules had 12 labors from reliable sources. Hercules myth despised by 1st Century Jews.
<quoted text> The core principal of your life is based on a lie.(atheism) This lie brings consequences.
You should work in a theater, you have a knack for projection.

“I Am No One Else”

Since: Apr 12

Seattle

#424973 Dec 7, 2012
waaasssuuup wrote:
<quoted text>
JESUS IS GOD, HE CAME AS A MAN AND WE HAVE PROOF - just read some of the good news this morning!
Conflating "proof" with assertion still, I see, well, I give you one thing, you never change.
Mike

Ashburn, VA

#424974 Dec 7, 2012
rest

“I Am No One Else”

Since: Apr 12

Seattle

#424975 Dec 7, 2012
waaasssuuup wrote:
<quoted text>
and yet for some strange reason you don't feel sorry for me but rather i make you mad and you feel the need to insult & disprove me - WHY???
There's nothing to disprove, until you provide evidence we have nothing to address, therefore the only thing left to do is watch you spin and spin.
John

Ashburn, VA

#424976 Dec 7, 2012
Rotskill

“I Am No One Else”

Since: Apr 12

Seattle

#424977 Dec 7, 2012
Skombolis wrote:
<quoted text>
Next time someone says that give them this
http://www.provethebible.net/T2-Divin/D-0201....
Yep, instead of giving anyone any actual evidence, just offer them lame excuses. That's a great tactic, if you're 3 and trying to blame the dog.

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