“H-o-o-o-o-o-o-ld on thar!”

Since: Sep 08

The Borderland of Sol

#423551 Nov 29, 2012
Tide with Beach wrote:
<quoted text>
I've heard the word before but don't remember where or when. It was probably in a movie.
Calvin & Hobbes.

Since: Mar 09

Location hidden

#423552 Nov 29, 2012
G_O_D wrote:
<quoted text>
Which is antichristian isn't it ? Most Christian doctrines teach that forgiveness comes from "belief in ____" and that actions or thoughts (forgiving others) are not required.
This is why I maintain that Modern Christianity (Paulinism) contradicts Jesus' own teachings.
I have always believed 3 things are required; repentance, faithfullness, and obedience. Paul does have some verses that speak to things being conditional like keeping our election sure IF we do certain things and I could give you some more specifics at home but admittedly I find Christ's teaching to be spelled out much clearer in the gospels as Paul seemed to focus more on the grace aspect whereaqs James much more on faith in action and the gospels a nice mix of both. But I also believe that is why we had diff authors to give us the complete picture when looked at as a whole.(T) PEACE

Since: Mar 09

Location hidden

#423553 Nov 29, 2012
Tide with Beach wrote:
<quoted text>
This is getting into more interesting territory. If you have time, watch this video of Sam Harris on free will. He also has a few videos up about morality from a scientific perspective.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v =pCofmZlC72gXX
Thanks..will check it out when i get home. This has been fun!(T) PEACE

“H-o-o-o-o-o-o-ld on thar!”

Since: Sep 08

The Borderland of Sol

#423554 Nov 29, 2012
Xcntrik InVidor wrote:
Jesus vs. Christianity
Matthew 5:17-20
船o not think that I have come to abolish the law or the prophets; I have come not to abolish but to fulfil. For truly I tell you, until heaven and earth pass away, not one letter, not one stroke of a letter, will pass from the law until all is accomplished.
Therefore, whoever breaks one of the least of these commandments, and teaches others to do the same, will be called least in the kingdom of heaven; but whoever does them and teaches them will be called great in the kingdom of heaven.
For I tell you, unless your righteousness exceeds that of the scribes and Pharisees, you will never enter the kingdom of heaven.
Does that mean I have to remove this cotton/poly uniform?
How about the Kevlar/nylon body armor?

Since: Mar 09

Location hidden

#423555 Nov 29, 2012
Edit x....thought of something else I wanted to ask. Also is there any way someone could remain under Mosaic Law and still follow the teachings of Christ such as turn the other cheek, do not judge or condemn, forgive to be forgiven, and love and pray for your enemy? That is why I think His death had to usher in a new age.(T) PEACE

“Don't be so dichotomous.”

Since: Jan 11

Embrace the grey.

#423556 Nov 29, 2012
Skombolis wrote:
Tide...i probably didnt explain that as well as I could of but you did hit on part of it when you said the key is to knowing the entire Bible. The verse about suffering no witch to live is in the Old Testament which is when we were under Mosaic Law.
I'm going to guess that every commandment/advice in the OT, that was not repeated or expanded in the NT, is out. Is that correct?

Burning witches was never justifiable (ethically), even before Jesus came to correct the mistake, if that's what you claim he did. I mean, it was either a mistake, or a gift to witches, or something. If that's what he did, he must have done it for a reason, if that's what you believe.

Unfortunately, what you believe is not what people everywhere believe, or have believed. They believe things that contribute to horribly unethical behavior, in many cases. This was avoidable, to some extent. Certainly, for future generations, we can help neutralize some of the dangers inherent in religious beliefs by changing them a little at a time. If I can't convince people to drop their beliefs, maybe I can get them to look at specific issues they care about enough to question. That's possible for anyone who isn't brainwashed, and not for those who are.
Skombolis wrote:
When Christ died on the Cross the Bible said he freed us from the curse of law. We are now in what is commonly known as The Age of Grace in which all commandments fall under the umbrella of what is known as the Two Greatest Commandments which are love God and love your neighbor as yourself. Jesus went on to explain what it means to love your neighbor in the parable of the Good Samritan. He also expanded on it. He said you have been taught love your neighbor and hate youjr enemy but I tell you to love ur enemy. That even sinners love those who love them back so one has accomplished nothing by doing this. It is by loving and praying even for our enemies do we remain obedient. Now it shows throughout Galatians, Hebrews, and John we are now under the NT..cont
That all sounds great, except for "love your enemy". If you love your neighbors, that should mean all humanity. If it doesn't, could you clarify? I have a basic affection for humanity that doesn't change until there's a reason for it, and that reason gives direction to the change. If someone makes themselves my enemy, they aren't a stranger anymore. I now have reason to have specific feelings for/about them, and those feelings are dictated by their behavior towards me. I don't hate anybody right now, so I can't say if I would hate my enemy, or love them. I'm not sure how I would react. It would depend entirely on the situation and my evaluation. Such an important decision would require a lot of consideration, not just looking through a decoder book to see what I'm supposed to feel.

“Why does my ignorance”

Since: Mar 11

justify your deity?

#423557 Nov 29, 2012
Skombolis wrote:
Hiding....i think I understand the distinctions you are making. although I had a question. if it is a survival instinct, how can it not be considered an improvement? wouldnt by definition anything that was spurred on to ensure survival be an improvement? or are you saying that while survival may have been the initiqal catalyst there is no guarantee evolution will result in a better species and some species while trying tol evolve to survive might in actuality evolve into something more suceptible to extinction?
What's a "survival instinct"?

We can call adaptation (the product of natural selection) an improvement if and only if the environment has not changed.

Admittedly, that happens. It happens very quickly. It goes like this: environment changes, most individuals in the population cannot survive and reproduce and die out. Of those who survive, those with mutations that are beneficial in this new environment come to dominate in the population. Very quickly, in terms of the fossil record, a new adaptive peak is reached.

Evolution cannot produce perfection - it's a series of compromises. Individual bodies develop with limited resources and each part of the body uses them. In humans, the central nervous system, immune system and stature (muscles and skeleton) are all drawing from a limited energy supply (available food and nutrition and the speed of digestion minus parasites and pathogens in the environment). This is why people in poorer nations are shorter - their central nervous system and immune system take the energy first, the body compromises.

So the adaptive peak for a species is "the best, most efficient adaptations, given physical and environmental constraints."

Your last question - can species evolve to be more likely to go extinct - is a good one. It's basically true of any specialist species. Humans and most primates are all generalists - and rats - so they do very well in a variety of environments. But evolution tends to select for the best solution to a given problem and that tends to produce specialists.

For example, cheetahs are great at running fast. But they can't compete against any other large predator on the plains. Their specialized method of hunting interferes with their ability to survive and reproduce where other large predators steal prey from them.

Perhaps a better example are parasites like the guinea worm. It only infects humans - but we're smarter and we've learned how to break the cycle. Since the guinea worm is a specialist, since we've broken its reproductive cycle, it will go extinct. If it were not a specialist and could infect, say, cows, it would survive.

Most species are specialists (the vast majority of beetle species, for example, live on one or two trees; so they go extinct when we clear forests). 98.9% of all species have gone extinct because they were unable to cope with changing environments. So you're right - evolution is blind, it produces specialists b/c specialists are great in the short term (they outcompete non-specialists under most conditions) but when the environment changes, they die out for lack of flexibility.

It means that most speciation comes from generalist species that are radiating into specialist niches.

“Why does my ignorance”

Since: Mar 11

justify your deity?

#423558 Nov 29, 2012
Skombolis wrote:
Edit x....thought of something else I wanted to ask. Also is there any way someone could remain under Mosaic Law and still follow the teachings of Christ such as turn the other cheek, do not judge or condemn, forgive to be forgiven, and love and pray for your enemy? That is why I think His death had to usher in a new age.(T) PEACE
Most species...

heh heh heh, my bad!

“Don't be so dichotomous.”

Since: Jan 11

Embrace the grey.

#423559 Nov 29, 2012
Skombolis wrote:
Tide..cont...Jesus also finished in Matthew after explaining we must love our enemy that we also must forgive others if we want our Father in heaven to forgive us. Now it is true that Jesus said he did not come to abolish the law (old testament-mosaic law) but to fulfill it. He did so when he gave up his spirit on the cross and his last words were "it is finished". Now Christians who first received the Holy Spirit at Anotoch after the Crucifixtion were under the New Testament and the two greates commandments..love God and love thy neighbor. The Christians in salem in the 1700s were under the NT and had no right to burn witches. So understaning we follow the NT is why Christians should know they have no biblical justification to do anything but love. And Jesus said in the book of John he remains in his fathers love by being obedient and for us to remain in his we must also be obedient.(T) PEACE
I have no strong objections to any of that.

So I'll just ask, was killing people as witches ever not unethical?

My point is, if I may make one, and get a concession on record if there is one to be had, that killing people as witches, under any religious law, new or old, is and was completely unjustifiable and unethical. Whether you agree with me, or disagree with me, I would like you to do so emphatically and explicitly, and celebrate if we are on the same page.

Since: Jul 08

Columbus, OH

#423560 Nov 29, 2012
Skombolis wrote:
Edit x....thought of something else I wanted to ask. Also is there any way someone could remain under Mosaic Law and still follow the teachings of Christ such as turn the other cheek, do not judge or condemn, forgive to be forgiven, and love and pray for your enemy? That is why I think His death had to usher in a new age.(T) PEACE
Well, frankly, his death, as portrayed in the canonical gospels, had to usher out one culture and make way for another.

Ya just can't sell kosher to gentiles.

“Love much, trust none”

Since: Jul 11

There

#423561 Nov 29, 2012
Skombolis wrote:
Hiding....i think I understand the distinctions you are making. although I had a question. if it is a survival instinct, how can it not be considered an improvement? wouldnt by definition anything that was spurred on to ensure survival be an improvement? or are you saying that while survival may have been the initiqal catalyst there is no guarantee evolution will result in a better species and some species while trying tol evolve to survive might in actuality evolve into something more suceptible to extinction?
Evolution doesn't produce "better" offspring, only more likely to have survivung offspring. In a sense, crocodiles are "better" than humans as they have lasted millions of years longer than humans without changing much.

Evolution does not produce human intelligence. Pur intelligence is simply the result that in the given situations of our ancestors it helped them keep from becoming extinct.

Rule ONE of evolution:
If your parents didn't have children, you won't either.

<smile> Peace, Skom!

Since: Jul 09

Location hidden

#423562 Nov 29, 2012
waaasssuuup wrote:
<quoted text>
hi there! you're not by any chance judging me & trying to force your standards of morality on me all the while you accuse me of doing that to you again, are you? how do hypocrites live with themselves???
you do not have standards, boy

you are a whoremonger

Since: Jul 09

Location hidden

#423563 Nov 29, 2012
water_nymph wrote:
<quoted text>Congress voted to include Viagra and other ED drugs under Medicare! Just what we need...a bunch of geezers walking around on 'hard' drugs to have sex with women who can't get birth control, because you know that was for their wives' sake (NOT).
That makes perfect sense, right?
them old boys with the Viagra, aint goin to have no sex with anyone young enough to get pregers

“Don't be so dichotomous.”

Since: Jan 11

Embrace the grey.

#423564 Nov 29, 2012
Skombolis wrote:
Tide....not even sure what the game is you think would even be a possibility but I can assure you I am talking from the heart.
I consider all of Topix a game. Everyone seems to be playing by rules, calling fouls based on THEIR rules, cheating based on THEIR rules, but I haven't seen anybody do much in the way of congratulating the winners. It's because we're playing by different rules. I know when I win and lose. I keep track, sort of. I learn from it. I refine my rules, make them harder. I lost a small game today. My "offensive" post was a foul based on my rules. If I had made it more outlandish, by my rules, it would have been okay. It would have been more playful and obvious, that I was not attempting to be crass or rude, I was just attempting to make a point using shock value as the carrier.

I also play the insult game, the word play game, the mental gymnastic game, the pointed question game, the unanswerable question game, the sock mimicry game, the insult with youtube game, and some more that I can't remember.

For the record, I'm paying the debate game, which has the strictest rules. I'll try to be civil and avoid insults, explicit or implied. I'll avoid logical fallacies, laziness, and several other things when I'm playing the debate game.
Skombolis wrote:
It is not that I dont think others can have a change of heart, in fact I specifically said some may feel how they do because they lack the necesarry experience or information that would help them see otherwise. and what you are talking about is someone teaching u hate. that is different than what I was talking about.
I wasn't taught to hate homosexuals. I was just taught that it was immoral and abnormal. For a teen, or many adults, this is enough to cause prejudicial behavior. I was also pretty prejudicial with what I considered to be slutty girls. That was wrong too. I think perhaps there aren't a lot of people preaching a tolerant version of Christianity. I don't have a problem with a love-based Christianity. I just don't see much of it.
Skombolis wrote:
I am saying nobody entering the faith imo who simply read the Bible and came to their own conclusions would suddenly turn bigot if they understood and wanted to follow the commandments of Christ. Sure if someone used the Bible to teach u to be homophobic or bigoted that was wrong but nothing in the nt would have allowed them to do that. and can ppl have a change of heart? sure. I did so y not others. I am saying I dont think until them someone is immoral because they sincerely believe homosexuality is an act peoploe shouldnt engage in. Ppl can say they think they ..cont
Having a majority demographic like Christians in America publicly endorsing the idea that homosexuality is inherently wrong/immoral is enough to cause irrevocable damage. It's peer pressure on a large scale. Even if the proactive bigotry stopped, endorsement of the core belief of homosexuality as sin will still cause damage. If I need to illustrate the point, I can. Let me know.

“Love much, trust none”

Since: Jul 11

There

#423565 Nov 29, 2012
Xcntrik InVidor wrote:
Jesus vs. Christianity
Matthew 5:17-20
船o not think that I have come to abolish the law or the prophets; I have come not to abolish but to fulfil. For truly I tell you, until heaven and earth pass away, not one letter, not one stroke of a letter, will pass from the law until all is accomplished.
Therefore, whoever breaks one of the least of these commandments, and teaches others to do the same, will be called least in the kingdom of heaven; but whoever does them and teaches them will be called great in the kingdom of heaven.
For I tell you, unless your righteousness exceeds that of the scribes and Pharisees, you will never enter the kingdom of heaven.
If one takes Jesus at his word, yup. Heaven and Earth are still here so the Law still stands.

Now if you want to get out of the law then claim it is figurative. <smile>

Seems to me that almost all Abrahamic religions want to play word games with what they claim is "The Word of God" and that God was such a pitiful author.

Then too, those who take The Law at its word are called evil by Christians and Jews. I am refering to those cultures that embrace Torah Law (AKA Sharia)

“Love much, trust none”

Since: Jul 11

There

#423566 Nov 29, 2012
karl44 wrote:
<quoted text>
them old boys with the Viagra, aint goin to have no sex with anyone young enough to get pregers
I'm almost 60 and spent the weekend with a 26 year old. May-December relationships are not uncommon, Ask Hef.

“Don't be so dichotomous.”

Since: Jan 11

Embrace the grey.

#423567 Nov 29, 2012
Skombolis wrote:
Tide...ppl can say they are wrong and disagree with them. But if a person with no malicious forethought cant help that they think it is wrong I dont think that qualifies them as immoral, especially if they say even though they disagree with it that everyone is deserving of love, respect, and equal treatment under the law. I just dont think we can hold someone morally accountable under tghat scenario.And if someone does truly feel God doesnt want us to do it but also knows God says love everyone and leave the judging to Him then I dont think they have done anything wrong. Bigots however and those who promote bigotry are immoral imo(T) PEACE
Imagine if you were a minority demographic, let's say the demographic of bald men, and the majority demographic, men with hair, all held the belief that going bald was a sign of stupidity. Now imagine you are a teenager that goes bald prematurely, maybe the only bald teen in your school. You're stupid because you're bald. You can try to fake it, put on a wig of luscious hair, but everyone already knows you're bald. You can't choose to have hair. You can try to pray the bald away, but it doesn't work. You start to believe you really are stupid because everyone believes that to be the case. I don't think baldness is a sign of stupidity, in fact, I stand out in opposition of this belief. I'm not even bald. For every person that says baldness is a sign of stupidity, I point out that holding that belief is a sign of irony.

I don't know if that was good at all, as I am getting sleepy and my arms are hurting from power typing.

“Love much, trust none”

Since: Jul 11

There

#423568 Nov 29, 2012
Chess Jurist wrote:
<quoted text>
Well, frankly, his death, as portrayed in the canonical gospels, had to usher out one culture and make way for another.
Ya just can't sell kosher to gentiles.
It is easier to sell matzha balls in Rome than bacon in Jerusalem. That is why Paul succeeded where James failed.

Since: Sep 10

Long Beach, CA

#423569 Nov 29, 2012
Tide with Beach wrote:
<quoted text>
I consider all of Topix a game. Everyone seems to be playing by rules, calling fouls based on THEIR rules, cheating based on THEIR rules, but I haven't seen anybody do much in the way of congratulating the winners. It's because we're playing by different rules. I know when I win and lose. I keep track, sort of. I learn from it. I refine my rules, make them harder. I lost a small game today. My "offensive" post was a foul based on my rules. If I had made it more outlandish, by my rules, it would have been okay. It would have been more playful and obvious, that I was not attempting to be crass or rude, I was just attempting to make a point using shock value as the carrier.
I also play the insult game, the word play game, the mental gymnastic game, the pointed question game, the unanswerable question game, the sock mimicry game, the insult with youtube game, and some more that I can't remember.
For the record, I'm paying the debate game, which has the strictest rules. I'll try to be civil and avoid insults, explicit or implied. I'll avoid logical fallacies, laziness, and several other things when I'm playing the debate game.
<quoted text>
I wasn't taught to hate homosexuals. I was just taught that it was immoral and abnormal. For a teen, or many adults, this is enough to cause prejudicial behavior. I was also pretty prejudicial with what I considered to be slutty girls. That was wrong too. I think perhaps there aren't a lot of people preaching a tolerant version of Christianity. I don't have a problem with a love-based Christianity. I just don't see much of it.
<quoted text>
Having a majority demographic like Christians in America publicly endorsing the idea that homosexuality is inherently wrong/immoral is enough to cause irrevocable damage. It's peer pressure on a large scale. Even if the proactive bigotry stopped, endorsement of the core belief of homosexuality as sin will still cause damage. If I need to illustrate the point, I can. Let me know.
Really great, Tide.

Since: Jul 08

Columbus, OH

#423570 Nov 29, 2012
G_O_D wrote:
<quoted text>
It is easier to sell matzha balls in Rome than bacon in Jerusalem. That is why Paul succeeded where James failed.
Fair enough.

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