“Selected Marksman”

Since: Aug 08

Northern Virginia

#423139 Nov 28, 2012
Kaitlin the Wolf Witch wrote:
<quoted text>
So's this:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v =iHpfRHjzM9gXX
Nice Kait...thanks for the memories...

“Jesus is Love”

Since: Jul 12

Hutchinson, MN

#423140 Nov 28, 2012
Doctor REALITY wrote:
<quoted text>I was thinking more along THIS line: http://farm7.staticflickr.com/6173/6152539022...
That was Bob of Quantum Filth giving birth to Kaitlin the Frantic Fool. How did you get this picture of them?

“BE BRAVE ENOUGH ”

Since: Oct 09

TO STEP IN MUD PUDDLES

#423141 Nov 28, 2012
timn17 wrote:
<quoted text>We will not stop until the last christian draws his last breath! I swear to Dawkins!
Are you serious??? Who is we???

I have no desire to take away anyone's right to believe as they choose. The very same right that allows them to believe as they choose also affords me the same right to my beliefs.

We talk about how "ugly" some Christians are and fail to look at ourselves. Your post is just as hate filled as the one that you responded to. We complain when they don't call out their fellow believers for the things that they say and then we turn a blind eye to the other side of the fence simply because that is where we are standing.

I will stand for their right to believe as they choose even though I do not agree with some of their beliefs. It would be nice if some of them were a little kinder but that goes for both sides.

I used to think that I didn't care how someone else believed...that it didn't affect me. However in recent years I have come to believe that it does. Hatred...violence...negativity ...lack of compassion no matter what side of the fence it comes from affects us all.

I don't know who "we" is...but please...don't include me in that group.

On a side note...I am well aware that the poster (most Christians) that you responded to would not stand up for my right to believe as I choose. Obviously you wouldn't either unless I believed the same as you.

When I read your post...I couldn't help but think...if you took the words Christian and Dawkins and changed them to non-believers/agnostic/atheist and God...it would sound like the posts that many of the "Christians" that have been posting here recently.

Hatred is hatred no matter where is originates.

“What do I know?”

Since: Apr 08

Rings of Saturn Emporium

#423142 Nov 28, 2012
Just Results wrote:
<quoted text>
I couldn't agree more.
Didn't take the trouble to read it, huh?

Pretty much what I expected.

Just another angry Christian.

“H-o-o-o-o-o-o-ld on thar!”

Since: Sep 08

The Borderland of Sol

#423143 Nov 28, 2012
water_nymph wrote:
<quoted text> Mac has those. I think they're $9.99 with one thrown in free if you pay shipping and handling.
Yup.

O'course, shipping and handling's getting expensive...

“What do I know?”

Since: Apr 08

Rings of Saturn Emporium

#423144 Nov 28, 2012
Just Results wrote:
<quoted text>
That's why I'm a Christian fighting against the abuse and stench of atheism which you practice so well.
Is that what you're doing here?

"Fighting?"

Since: Jun 12

Location hidden

#423145 Nov 28, 2012
DearthOfCouth wrote:
Well, here's my opinion:
Christianity, as you express it, is just the expectation that an invisible, immortal benefactor will descend upon you one day, take you away and make you happy forever. It's childish, self-centered escapism and very little more.
That you represent your fantasies as established and incontrovertible facts puzzles me a little; functioning adults should be above this sort of thing, it seems to me.
Functioning adults know the difference between hostile opinion and truth claims. Christian claims could be childish, self centered?(Don't know where you claim that since to offer is extended to everybody, obviously you reject based on your own choice) and escapist in your opinion and be objectively true at the same time. Your opinion does not alter truth one bit. If you are correct in your assessement then the claims of Christ are false. To vilify Christians does not make the truth claims of Christ automatically false. Functioning adults know that also.

Since: Mar 09

Location hidden

#423146 Nov 28, 2012
HipGnosis wrote:
<quoted text>I know you know how to laugh so....I'm gonna go out on a limb here and suggest you maybe were bored and came in here looking to dance. Whaddyathink? That's cool and all,'cos that's what this Hokey-Pokey's all about, but if it's the least bit true, is it really copacetic to be smug with all these other folks who stepped up to sign your dance card? You caught me off-guard, for one - I wasn't sure what you were after with your initial post.
I would be more than a little ironic from those who doth protest too much about simply disagreeing and how that shouldn't elicit insults (even when they did way more than disagree and were obnoxious and insulting)if my simply posting quotes of the founding fathers should have made it reasonable to anticipate the responses I got.

And while I am never shy to put on my dancing shoes, I really didn't think quotes by the founding fathers should have been perceived as an invitations t all. Unless all the claims of oppression and how far we have strayed from what the founding fathers would have been ok with is nothing more that total b.s. and simply people loving to play the oppression card just as some Christians can play the persecution card. Or just another example of how society has deteriored down to who is a better citizen by claiming it is their set of beliefs that is much more in tune with the founding fathers.

Like I said, I went to the site to how they felt about democracy. I was pretty surprised they felt how they did. But it didn't bother me because you won't see me using the founding fathers to argue a point. I really don't give a rat;s ass what they wanted. They were simply men. Men who were ok with slavery,men who thought women shouldn't vote, men who were against democracy, and soon.

But like I also said I have seen this debate a hundred times on Topix. It is why I also posted it on "Prove there is a God' and WSJLM simply because I thought people would be interested to know regardless of what side they had been arguing. You know the only room that had anybody respond negatively was this room? Given the posters I am not surprised who it was. If knowing the truth is not only not preferred but considered a challenge to fight then I pity people that insecure. However I will keep it in mind if I ever get the urge to share something again that I think people would be interested in that when i do it in here, some people will take actual quotes as a personal attack by the very people many hold up as the model to follow. I didn't give it any more thought than I found it interesting and figured others might as well.

Then again I haven't been in here in a long time regardless of what some people are claiming as I post under one name. It didn't take long for me to remember why I left. It was different back when it was you, Micah, X, and a few others. Now there is very little meaningful discourse and the ones that are the most condescending ironically normally are the least-informed. I have never understand why so many of these rooms turn into some sort of self-help group where all posters do is kiss each other's ass all day while attempting ganging up on anybody on the other "side" because not only they want approval from their fellow poster they want to make sure the same people they defend will do the same for them. Why even come to Topix if someone's only objective is to be closed-minded and attack anyone who feels differently?

I posted some quotes by the founding founding to illustrate they were very religious men

None of this is directed at you of course

“BE BRAVE ENOUGH ”

Since: Oct 09

TO STEP IN MUD PUDDLES

#423147 Nov 28, 2012
lightbeamrider wrote:
<quoted text> Functioning adults know the difference between hostile opinion and truth claims. Christian claims could be childish, self centered?(Don't know where you claim that since to offer is extended to everybody, obviously you reject based on your own choice) and escapist in your opinion and be objectively true at the same time. Your opinion does not alter truth one bit. If you are correct in your assessement then the claims of Christ are false. To vilify Christians does not make the truth claims of Christ automatically false. Functioning adults know that also.
DOC said..."Christianity, as you express it," referring to the poster "Just Right". If you express your Christian beliefs the way "Just Right" does or if you believe "Just Right" is what God expects of his followers then your truth is just as childish as "Just Right"'s is.

On a side note...I personally believe that the Jesus that Just Right claims to worship as he expresses Jesus to be is false.

“What do I know?”

Since: Apr 08

Rings of Saturn Emporium

#423148 Nov 28, 2012
AnnieJ wrote:
<quoted text>
DOC said..."Christianity, as you express it," referring to the poster "Just Right". If you express your Christian beliefs the way "Just Right" does or if you believe "Just Right" is what God expects of his followers then your truth is just as childish as "Just Right"'s is.
On a side note...I personally believe that the Jesus that Just Right claims to worship as he expresses Jesus to be is false.
Thanks for pointing that out, Annie.

While you're at it, perhaps you could 'splain these two sentences to me:
lightbeamrider wrote:
Christian claims could be childish, self centered?(Don't know where you claim that since to offer is extended to everybody, obviously you reject based on your own choice) and escapist in your opinion and be objectively true at the same time.

“BE BRAVE ENOUGH ”

Since: Oct 09

TO STEP IN MUD PUDDLES

#423149 Nov 28, 2012
Skombolis wrote:
<quoted text>
I would be more than a little ironic from those who doth protest too much about simply disagreeing and how that shouldn't elicit insults (even when they did way more than disagree and were obnoxious and insulting)if my simply posting quotes of the founding fathers should have made it reasonable to anticipate the responses I got.
*
Sorry about the deletion but there is never room for both of us in the same post!

When you posted those quotes on WSJLM the other day I had just posted to someone that came in bashing certain Christians telling them to move to China or some other utopia (where ever that is). I stood up for the rights of those that were being condemned and at the same time acknowledging that I would not receive the same for from them in regards to my beliefs. It later turned out that the poster claimed to be Christian...go figure. Seems as if you weren't his/her kind of Christian...well we've all heard that one before.

You came along not long after and posted a quote that in essence stated that this was a nation founded for Christians...by Christians...and that Christians afforded all the rest of us to worship as we choose.

I would say that I am sorry that I misunderstood your intent but you did not give any indication why you posted those quotes...I just assumed that you were posting them in response to my post.

Steve take a look at most of those that post on this thread under the guise of a Christian...is it so far fetched to think that they would do what ever in order to claim this country...as just for them. As one poster that responded to my post on WSJLM...Israel is for the Jews...etc...etc...and this country is for the Christians. History has shown people will do what ever it takes to get rid of those that they see as "less than". I posted a link to an article the other day that shows just the extent some will go to and some long forgotten history of this country.

Yes...obviously all of this holds true for both sides as evidenced by a post that I responded to earlier this morning on WINLAC.

Let me ask...what do you think that some of the professed Christians on this thread would do if the country was just founded for you guys...what would DR do...look at his remarks...his bigotry...prejudices???

I think that there are way too many people that would hunt down homosexuals, Muslims...people of color and yes...even some that would hunt down Christians.

I posted this the other day in response to that poster on WSJLM...

First they came...

When the Nazis came for the communists,
I remained silent;
I was not a communist.

When they locked up the social democrats,
I remained silent;
I was not a social democrat.

When they came for the trade unionists,
I did not speak out;
I was not a trade unionist.

When they came for the Jews,
I remained silent;
I wasn't a Jew.

When they came for me,
there was no one left to speak out.

It saddens me somewhat to know that I have posted with people for the last few years...many have called me friend...and I am not sure which of them would "speak out".

I am passionate about this subject for more than just one reason...it is why I did not respond to your post to me on WSJLM the other day and why I said that I didn't know if I would get involved in this conversation.

Okay...almost out of those little characters...sometimes that is the only way to get me to stop!

Have a great day Steve.

“BE BRAVE ENOUGH ”

Since: Oct 09

TO STEP IN MUD PUDDLES

#423150 Nov 28, 2012
DearthOfCouth wrote:
<quoted text>
Thanks for pointing that out, Annie.
While you're at it, perhaps you could 'splain these two sentences to me:
<quoted text>
LOL

Well...I have a theory as to what was meant...but who knows.

I think that the gist of it was that you are childish and foolish for not believing...but that is your choice. It gets a little confusing after that.:-(

Other than that...I don't got a clue!

Since: Sep 12

Location hidden

#423151 Nov 28, 2012
AnnieJ wrote:
<quoted text>
Are you serious??? Who is we???
I have no desire to take away anyone's right to believe as they choose. The very same right that allows them to believe as they choose also affords me the same right to my beliefs.
We talk about how "ugly" some Christians are and fail to look at ourselves. Your post is just as hate filled as the one that you responded to. We complain when they don't call out their fellow believers for the things that they say and then we turn a blind eye to the other side of the fence simply because that is where we are standing.
I will stand for their right to believe as they choose even though I do not agree with some of their beliefs. It would be nice if some of them were a little kinder but that goes for both sides.
I used to think that I didn't care how someone else believed...that it didn't affect me. However in recent years I have come to believe that it does. Hatred...violence...negativity ...lack of compassion no matter what side of the fence it comes from affects us all.
I don't know who "we" is...but please...don't include me in that group.
On a side note...I am well aware that the poster (most Christians) that you responded to would not stand up for my right to believe as I choose. Obviously you wouldn't either unless I believed the same as you.
When I read your post...I couldn't help but think...if you took the words Christian and Dawkins and changed them to non-believers/agnostic/atheist and God...it would sound like the posts that many of the "Christians" that have been posting here recently.
Hatred is hatred no matter where is originates.
Awesome reply Annie!!!

Since: Oct 07

Location hidden

#423152 Nov 28, 2012
DearthOfCouth wrote:
<quoted text>
Is that what you're doing here?
"Fighting?"
Fighting against those who don't prescribe to his form of reality. Sounds like a fruitless labor to me.

“BE BRAVE ENOUGH ”

Since: Oct 09

TO STEP IN MUD PUDDLES

#423153 Nov 28, 2012
Grace Walker wrote:
<quoted text>
Awesome reply Annie!!!
Thank you Grace but I don't expect it to win me any brownie points from either side! LOL

Oh well...

Since: Oct 07

Location hidden

#423154 Nov 28, 2012
lightbeamrider wrote:
<quoted text> Functioning adults know the difference between hostile opinion and truth claims. Christian claims could be childish, self centered?(Don't know where you claim that since to offer is extended to everybody, obviously you reject based on your own choice) and escapist in your opinion and be objectively true at the same time. Your opinion does not alter truth one bit. If you are correct in your assessement then the claims of Christ are false. To vilify Christians does not make the truth claims of Christ automatically false. Functioning adults know that also.
What does make the claims of Christ false? There's no way to falsify any of them, other than things that he promised that haven't come to pass...

Since: Sep 12

Location hidden

#423156 Nov 28, 2012
AnnieJ wrote:
<quoted text>
Thank you Grace but I don't expect it to win me any brownie points from either side! LOL
Oh well...
Probably not but it shows what a good and decent person you are. I have tried to stand against other Christians who have come on here with the attitude that they are above all others..Look where that got me!!! I just feel that we all have different beliefs and opinions and no certain person on here has all the right answers. We can learn a lot from one another if we take the time to actually listen to what someone else has to say. If I happen to agree with an atheist on something that, that person said, that does not make me a hypocrite or a backslidden Christian as many Christians have said to me..LOL Whenever I see someone agreeing with EVERYTHING that a person says, Based soley on the fact that they "believe" the same way, It shows me that they are biased and closed minded and are here to have a good time ridiculing another. Well, Thats my opinion anyway but I enjoy reading your post. You seem to have a very understanding heart.

“What do I know?”

Since: Apr 08

Rings of Saturn Emporium

#423157 Nov 28, 2012
Grace Walker wrote:
<quoted text>
Probably not but it shows what a good and decent person you are. I have tried to stand against other Christians who have come on here with the attitude that they are above all others..Look where that got me!!! I just feel that we all have different beliefs and opinions and no certain person on here has all the right answers. We can learn a lot from one another if we take the time to actually listen to what someone else has to say. If I happen to agree with an atheist on something that, that person said, that does not make me a hypocrite or a backslidden Christian as many Christians have said to me..LOL Whenever I see someone agreeing with EVERYTHING that a person says, Based soley on the fact that they "believe" the same way, It shows me that they are biased and closed minded and are here to have a good time ridiculing another. Well, Thats my opinion anyway but I enjoy reading your post. You seem to have a very understanding heart.
AnnieJ is pure gold, as is NoStress4me and several other people here who have very little in common with me.

I suspect, Grace, that you and I would be able to find very little to agree over but I don't see why that should trouble either of us. I hope that you will always find yourself welcome here, and that you will stay as long as you like.

“The future begins”

Since: Jul 07

every moment

#423161 Nov 28, 2012
Skombolis wrote:
<quoted text>
I would be more than a little ironic from those who doth protest too much about simply disagreeing and how that shouldn't elicit insults (even when they did way more than disagree and were obnoxious and insulting)if my simply posting quotes of the founding fathers should have made it reasonable to anticipate the responses I got.

I posted some quotes by the founding founding to illustrate they were very religious men
Well, there you go. That's what was missing from the initial "outburst", shall we say. I had no idea what your angle was so I held off waiting for further posts to illustrate what you were after. Others here responded more quickly, assuming you were resurrecting the "Christian nation for Christians" story. I think it was a fair assumption. Look around here, at the quality of believer we get here. Imagine a bunch of Coffey and DrReality clones spamming the page day after day, hour after hour, with inane self-absorbed nonsense. Yeah, that's what we got here. So, it shouldn't be too much of a surprise if the folks go, "Here we go again", when you posted that stuff out of the blue. Then,(it appeared to me), while you were slow to clarify what your intent was, you responded with relish and mustard to those who "jumped" as you say. So that's why I said it looks like that's at least partially what you were after to begin with, to dance.

As for the quotes, I feel they are misleading as they are. Those interested in historical accuracy (as opposed to an agenda) know that it is highly misleading to select 2- or 3-sentence quotes out of a lifetime and attempt to divine overall character and intent. For instance, yes, Franklin sprinkled references to "God" throughout his writing, but I'm going to suggest to you it was more from convention than conviction. Read his autobiography - to say he was "very religious" would be wishful thinking at best. I can say this with confidence - his idea of "God" and yours are on completely different planes.

Likewise with Jefferson, Washington, Madison, Hamilton, and several others. Interestingly enough, there were numerous "conventional Christians" represented at the Constitutional Convention, but they rarely make these "lists". It's always the Big Name Founders like Franklin and Adams whose quotes get mined for agreeable content, and many of these guys were most definitely not conventional, much less Christian.

As for your original search, yes, I agree, many were suspicious of democracy (History in general is a passion of mine). Among the original arguments surrounding the type of gov't they wanted to establish are many diatribes against "leveling" democracy and general suffrage. I always recall Madison attempting to calm them down by stating that if they wanted to enjoy stability, nothing better could be had then a general suffrage. This itself would make a broad portion of the population feel they are vested in this new idea of gov't. BUT it would also cause the electorate to splinter into so many factions, no single one could do much "harm", and thus the elected representatives could carry on with business as usual. Madison about got it right, don't you think?

There are excellent books out there on the Constitutional Convention debates. A favorite of mine is "Miracle At Philadelphia" by Catherine Bowen.

I hope you have a great day today.
Peace.
HipG

“let's do this thang!”

Since: Aug 10

Location hidden

#423163 Nov 28, 2012
NoStress4me wrote:
<quoted text>
I have no idea how you came up with this answer from what I said, so I will simplify. In your opinion what does it mean to be a Christian?
to be a Christian to me means to be justified by faith in Jesus.
i'm afraid that to be a 'christian' to most of christendom means to follow Jesus' teachings, as if Jesus was only a great teacher/person.

please consider how abel, abraham, isaac, jacob, david...etc obtained favor from God, whether it came through their own goodness/works or by believing God, which was accounted to them as righteousness:)

Tell me when this thread is updated:

Subscribe Now Add to my Tracker

Add your comments below

Characters left: 4000

Please note by submitting this form you acknowledge that you have read the Terms of Service and the comment you are posting is in compliance with such terms. Be polite. Inappropriate posts may be removed by the moderator. Send us your feedback.

Top Stories Discussions

Title Updated Last By Comments
Prove there's a god. (Mar '08) 8 min Kaitlin the Wolf ... 809,165
Play "end of the word" (Jan '11) 8 min WasteWater 5,546
Was 9/11 a conspiracy?? (Oct '07) 12 min WasteWater 268,842
God is REAL - Miracles Happen! (Jun '11) 15 min andet1987 5,788
4 word game (use same Letter) (Mar '13) 19 min andet1987 1,364
Ask Me A Trivia Question -- 2 -- (Mar '10) 24 min andet1987 191,499
This ~ or ~ That? (game) (Dec '12) 28 min andet1987 1,623
Roman Catholic church only true church, says Va... (Jul '07) 37 min Regina 573,822
Sleeping with mother (Oct '13) 2 hr Jack 18
Why Should Jesus Love Me? (Feb '08) 6 hr Naked Truth from ... 608,142
More from around the web