“The future begins”

Since: Jul 07

every moment

#422699 Nov 26, 2012
water_nymph wrote:
<quoted text> True. But one should always go to a site that is credible for quotes. There are many time tested ones. So I don't give much leeway on that. But he could have been overwhelmed with religious gusto.
You know I agree. Beyond looking for a credible site, one should check even those one thinks are credible, for one's own credibility. No doubt Sko thought those were credible, and as you say, was likely in the heat of battle on another site, and his zeal spilleth over here. I like the guy, for a rock-head;) He's got a good heart, struggling to reconcile his sense of reason and justice with....well, the Bible. It ain't easy; in fact, it's pretty much impossible. That's about where I was when I first came to topix. micah was among my first acquaintances, and he wasn't any easier on straddlers as he was full-fledged fundies. He cut me slack, for some inexplicable reason, and I picked my way through the minefield from there.

“The future begins”

Since: Jul 07

every moment

#422700 Nov 26, 2012
Mary Palm wrote:
<quoted text>No, it's not. Many scholars debate the existence at all and consider it religious syncretism.
http://www.religioustolerance.org/chr_jcno.ht...
Not established, at all.
End of story.
This limited forum does not allow for it, but you really have very limited knowledge of the origins of your dogma. That is very sad.
You think my nickname is prosaic and unimagintive? Bwahahahahaha.
You wrote Christ in your former post that was similar to this one. It's there. Look for it. Oh, and stop citing Ehrman. I already illustrated how he is wrong about his historical Jesus claim. Early Christians could not even agree on the ressurrection, which was clearly taken from Plato's philosophy. Oh, and the contemporaries of your Gospel writes, like Galen and Celsus argued quite eloquently against such nonsense. Perhaps you need to start there.
I've never read Galen, but it sounds like Celsus could fit right in here. Thor bless those hyper-defensive Christians for making sure we've got Celsus for posterity. They know not what they do...;)

Celsus (courtesy of Origen): "...the following are the rules laid down by (Xtians). Let no one come to us who has been instructed, or who is wise or prudent (for such qualifications are deemed evil by us); but if there be any ignorant, or unintelligent, or uninstructed, or foolish persons, let them come with confidence. By which words, acknowledging that such individuals are worthy of their God, they manifestly show that they desire and are able to gain over only the silly, and the mean, and the stupid, with women and children."...

In Which It's Shown That People Is People Then As Now.

“The future begins”

Since: Jul 07

every moment

#422701 Nov 26, 2012
Skombolis wrote:
<quoted text>
Yeah I knew that already stupid, that is why I posted the proof!
The rest of your post was just desperation trying to salvage some pride so I won't waste my time responding to it
Its ok Mary, put your big girl panties on. You came out charging and made an ass out of yourself. You even got W_N to join in and you were both dead wrong. Now be an adult about it and stop trying to find some way to claim you are still right when clearly you are not.
Hold on thar BabaLooie!

This doesn't take away from the fact that those quotes were cherry-picked and close-shaved to serve an agenda, and did NOT clearly represent the comprehensive views of the Founding Fathers (or Lincoln) regarding religion.

Since: Mar 09

Location hidden

#422702 Nov 26, 2012
HipGnosis wrote:
<quoted text>You know I agree. Beyond looking for a credible site, one should check even those one thinks are credible, for one's own credibility. No doubt Sko thought those were credible, and as you say, was likely in the heat of battle on another site, and his zeal spilleth over here. I like the guy, for a rock-head;) He's got a good heart, struggling to reconcile his sense of reason and justice with....well, the Bible. It ain't easy; in fact, it's pretty much impossible. That's about where I was when I first came to topix. micah was among my first acquaintances, and he wasn't any easier on straddlers as he was full-fledged fundies. He cut me slack, for some inexplicable reason, and I picked my way through the minefield from there.
Hey HipG

I agree I got a little lazy simply because many of the quotes from the page I originally used listed the source underneath. I didn't even notice that some of them didn't have the source underneath. I did do a quick Google search on them and saw like 20 pages come up for each one with the same quotes listed and figured they were all verified. As it turned out one of them was not. Although I did find a similar one that was verified from the same person.

Like I said, I had seen the quotes prior to seeing any discussion on it and had originally gone to the site to verify their feelings towards democracies. I had no religious motive for going to the page. But after seeing the posts I found them intriguing and thought it would make for interesting general consumption.

If I had at all anticipated the fervor elicited from one unsubstantiated quote out of a list of verifiable ones I would have made sure to check. Although still, probably a good reminder in general to take the Internet with a grain of salt until fully researching it. But any of the the suggestions (not by you)that this was the result of anything but one oversight, a reasonable one imo considered many were already sourced, well...it is what it is.

(T) Peace

Since: Sep 10

San Francisco, CA

#422703 Nov 26, 2012
Skombolis wrote:
<quoted text>
Enjoy your foot once you pry it out of your mouth as I researched and linked the quotes other than one which I admitted could not be substantiated. None of the others had anything to do with Barton
This is why so many people find you so annoying W_N. You come on here like you are drunk, disregard the fact that my only contact with you thus far is checking in to see how your son is doing and leaving you a message from someone else passing along well wishes, and then come off like an uneducated lunatic who is not even smart enough to realize she is trying to act condescending when she is dead wrong. Grow up or try to anyway
You sure like to dish it out, don't you?

You're such a pitiful victim.

And self-righteous to boot.

How disgusting.

Since: Sep 10

San Francisco, CA

#422704 Nov 26, 2012
Skombolis wrote:
<quoted text>
I am sorry, all I hear in something completely unrelated to the fact that you shoved your foot in your mouth and had to eat your words about all those quotes being fabricated. This post just sounds like angry desperation. Geez sparky, I would think someone like you would be used to making an ass out of themselves where being proved wrong wouldn't hit them so hard!
~snicker
There you go.

One more poster to insult.

Pitiful.

Since: Mar 09

Location hidden

#422705 Nov 26, 2012
HipGnosis wrote:
<quoted text>Hold on thar BabaLooie!
This doesn't take away from the fact that those quotes were cherry-picked and close-shaved to serve an agenda, and did NOT clearly represent the comprehensive views of the Founding Fathers (or Lincoln) regarding religion.
The entire text was given

Even some of what I quoted I did so simply for length as the entire paragraph was the same in context.

Please provide the proof (and of course source it very comprehensively!) to show those quotes are out of context and not indicative of how they truly felt. How does someone say those things while overall feeling something totally different?

I will need to see what you mean

Since: Mar 09

Location hidden

#422706 Nov 26, 2012
Catcher1 wrote:
<quoted text>
There you go.
One more poster to insult.
Pitiful.
WOW

Now you are on another site following me around jumping into conversations seeking approval of your fellow posters?

You are an embarrassment

Why don't you tell everybody how you told me I should reconsider how I am posting because "we are watching" and how you have tried several times to imply I need your permission to post? Man are you insecure and overcompensate. You are so rattled now that you have resorted to bringing it to another room? Just sad

Not to mention you are a hypocrite who is trying to apply a double-standard since that poster started the insults out of the blue.

I hope someone buys you chap-stick for Christmas. All that ass-kissing has got to make your lips dry as all get out!

~snicker

Since: Mar 09

Location hidden

#422707 Nov 26, 2012
Catcher1 wrote:
<quoted text>
You sure like to dish it out, don't you?
You're such a pitiful victim.
And self-righteous to boot.
How disgusting.
And yet another post by the insecure, ass-kissing fool

Again, go back and read the post to me you whiny hypocrite

You don't see me complaining. I am having fun with it. You are the one all bent out of shape because all you do on Topix all day is suck up to other posters and never have anything to contribute on your own

"Hey (fill in name) great post."

"hey (fill in name) don't you talk to him that way. Hey (fill in name) did you see how I had you back. Now make sure you have mine later"

Pathetic

~snicker

“BE BRAVE ENOUGH ”

Since: Oct 09

TO STEP IN MUD PUDDLES

#422708 Nov 26, 2012
Skombolis wrote:
<quoted text>
The entire text was given
Even some of what I quoted I did so simply for length as the entire paragraph was the same in context.
Please provide the proof (and of course source it very comprehensively!) to show those quotes are out of context and not indicative of how they truly felt. How does someone say those things while overall feeling something totally different?
I will need to see what you mean
Most if not all of those quotes were from politicians Steve. They say lots of things that they don't really believe!

Since: Sep 10

San Francisco, CA

#422709 Nov 26, 2012
Skombolis wrote:
<quoted text>
WOW
Now you are on another site following me around jumping into conversations seeking approval of your fellow posters?
You are an embarrassment
Why don't you tell everybody how you told me I should reconsider how I am posting because "we are watching" and how you have tried several times to imply I need your permission to post? Man are you insecure and overcompensate. You are so rattled now that you have resorted to bringing it to another room? Just sad
Not to mention you are a hypocrite who is trying to apply a double-standard since that poster started the insults out of the blue.
I hope someone buys you chap-stick for Christmas. All that ass-kissing has got to make your lips dry as all get out!
~snicker
Following you around?

Paranoid much?

Maybe I'm God, you better be careful!

“The future begins”

Since: Jul 07

every moment

#422710 Nov 26, 2012
Skombolis wrote:
<quoted text>
The entire text was given
Even some of what I quoted I did so simply for length as the entire paragraph was the same in context.
Please provide the proof (and of course source it very comprehensively!) to show those quotes are out of context and not indicative of how they truly felt. How does someone say those things while overall feeling something totally different?
I will need to see what you mean
Well, let me be clear first what you're proposing. Is this the "America was founded by Christians as a Christian nation" debate? If so, I'll be taking the dissenting position (surprise, surprise;) First, I would take the very easiest to debunk, which would be Franklin and Jefferson. The others are somewhat more nuanced, but doable. But I'll ask you to confirm your premise first before I waste our time.

Since: Mar 09

Location hidden

#422711 Nov 26, 2012
AnnieJ wrote:
<quoted text>
Most if not all of those quotes were from politicians Steve. They say lots of things that they don't really believe!
So what are you suggesting we do? Assume without any reason otherwise other than they were politicians to anything ever spoken by anyone in public office may be a lie and throw out all known quotes, speeches, letters, etc?

These were the founding fathers and they wrote the constitution we bide by and by whose ideals we supposedly are trying to emulate as a country. Is it possible they were all lying all the time or maybe just when it had to do with God? I guess. But for me I tend to assume someone is credible until shown otherwise

(T) Peace

Since: Mar 09

Location hidden

#422712 Nov 26, 2012
HipGnosis wrote:
<quoted text>Well, let me be clear first what you're proposing. Is this the "America was founded by Christians as a Christian nation" debate? If so, I'll be taking the dissenting position (surprise, surprise;) First, I would take the very easiest to debunk, which would be Franklin and Jefferson. The others are somewhat more nuanced, but doable. But I'll ask you to confirm your premise first before I waste our time.
My premise is simply the founding fathers believed in God and when they spoke of a separation of church and state it was a very specific separation that was meant only to apply to the creation of LAW

"Congress shall make no law respecting an establishment of religion, or prohibiting the free exercise thereof.."

It is my belief it was the intent of the founding fathers that anyone could practice any religion of their choosing and that nobody could be forced into following any religion. And that so long as a citizen did not infringe on the rights of others and stayed within the law, it did not matter if he was in the private or public sector, he was allowed to make his personal religious beliefs known.

"Congress shall make no law respecting an establishment of religion, or prohibiting the free exercise thereof.."

My personal beliefs are that some areas it should be separate when the lack thereof infringes on the rights of others. A courtroom would be one example as everyone is entitled to an unbiased justice system that is blind to anything but justice. I think there is an argument for things like school prayer that it is basically forced (because not participating ostracizes the children in the minority) unless the time is set aside for those of all faiths to get to practice their religion while Christians are practicing theirs. But I think it is absurd things like nativity scenes have to be taken down or Christmas plays can't have Christmas songs (although now the courts have ruled they can) or that people in public jobs can't let their own religious opinions known or that people in stores can't say Merry Christmas, or things of that nature. The approval or agreement of others is not required so long as a citizen is within the law

But back to my premise on the founding fathers and that again is simply as it related to law when it comes to separation of church and state and they intended any man to be able to practice any religion of his choosing

(T) Peace

Since: Mar 09

Location hidden

#422713 Nov 26, 2012
Catcher1 wrote:
<quoted text>
Following you around?
Paranoid much?
Maybe I'm God, you better be careful!
Nah, I know an insecure weirdo when I see one

And you did say you were watching me right?

Since: Mar 09

Location hidden

#422714 Nov 26, 2012
Edit Hip:

Sorry, should have said my premise is most believed in God and their principles and morals were rooted in faith. However they felt all people should be able to worship as they please, in any faith they choose, or none at all. And that the government never make laws favoring a religion or prohibiting the worship of one

“Live Love Laugh”

Since: Aug 07

Rings of Saturn Emporium

#422715 Nov 26, 2012
Skombolis wrote:
<quoted text>
Enjoy your foot once you pry it out of your mouth as I researched and linked the quotes other than one which I admitted could not be substantiated. None of the others had anything to do with Barton
This is why so many people find you so annoying W_N. You come on here like you are drunk, disregard the fact that my only contact with you thus far is checking in to see how your son is doing and leaving you a message from someone else passing along well wishes, and then come off like an uneducated lunatic who is not even smart enough to realize she is trying to act condescending when she is dead wrong. Grow up or try to anyway
So checking on my son should be reason for me not to disagree with your posts?

That's pretty sad, especially considering you weren't checking on him out of any interest of your own but for others who had asked.

You had to come back here as Skombolis in order to take the heat off for the moment but no one here is gullible enough to buy into your sacrosanct act.

No one can disagree with you without causing just the type of crap you posted above. You at least behaved a little better while writing as a sock.

Since: Mar 09

Location hidden

#422716 Nov 26, 2012
water_nymph wrote:
<quoted text> So checking on my son should be reason for me not to disagree with your posts?
That's pretty sad, especially considering you weren't checking on him out of any interest of your own but for others who had asked.
You had to come back here as Skombolis in order to take the heat off for the moment but no one here is gullible enough to buy into your sacrosanct act.
No one can disagree with you without causing just the type of crap you posted above. You at least behaved a little better while writing as a sock.
For starters I asked peopel to pray for him so nice try

Secondly you weren't just disagreeing. You were coming off like a snactimonious ass for no reason and when you were wrong

W_N said:

"It is evident that you do not have the skills to be a researcher of any sort, much less history. You buy into whatever someone says that agrees with what you already believe, regardless of whether it is factual or not.

David Barton. Hahahaha"

What kind of lunatic resorts to this level of discourse for no reason, let alone when the only contact is checking in on your family?

I have no problem meeting you lunatics at your level. And I don't need other identities. I stand behind everything I say. Unlike you and when you were a professing Christian when you first came to Topix but decided you wanted to be liked by the other side so you changed your beliefs and now every chance you can you try to present yourself as someone so far removed from the faith. You are a pretender.

“BE BRAVE ENOUGH ”

Since: Oct 09

TO STEP IN MUD PUDDLES

#422717 Nov 26, 2012
Skombolis wrote:
<quoted text> So what are you suggesting we do? Assume without any reason otherwise other than they were politicians to anything ever spoken by anyone in public office may be a lie and throw out all known quotes, speeches, letters, etc?
These were the founding fathers and they wrote the constitution we bide by and by whose ideals we supposedly are trying to emulate as a country. Is it possible they were all lying all the time or maybe just when it had to do with God? I guess. But for me I tend to assume someone is credible until shown otherwise
(T) Peace
It was a bit of humor Steve...meant to possibly lighten the mood.

“Live Love Laugh”

Since: Aug 07

Rings of Saturn Emporium

#422718 Nov 26, 2012
Skombolis wrote:
<quoted text>
Why do you always say things like "when I was growing up"? Or when I was a kid?
Just about everybody knows you were a professed Christian when you first showed up on Topix and just got talked out of being one only a few years ago. So you can just say "in my church up until a few years ago" instead of trying to pretend you left this all behind you so long ago
I don't 'always' say things like that. I say it when it pertains to something that has changed since I was a child. Surely you could find something much more egregious in my post for which you can condemn me.

Yes, I was a Christian. I was a Christian who had many, many questions. I can't say that Topix fundies did any more to help me make the final decision to leave than to be themselves.

I didn't make any comment that could be read as having left Christianity long ago. Your interpretation of what I said is completely off base.

Just because I mention what happened in my childhood doesn't by any stretch of the imagination say that I left Christendom as a child. That's added on by you.

I realize it's been hard for you to hold in all the hatred for the last week or so while you tried again to convince people that you are the only ones with the answers. Your restraint is admirable. But when you couldn't convince people how great you are, you came back as Skombolis so you could say the things you really wanted to say without sullying a sock. That's about as funny as it gets.

Now, if you want to damn me for leaving Christianity, you're very late in the game. All your fundie brothers and sisters have already done so. Yours will be a pebble instead of a rock.

You are narcissistic to the nth degree. You are not as brilliant as you would like everyone to think you are. When someone calls you on some of the things you say, a post like the ones you've written to me ensues.

I don't agree with your beliefs. You don't agree that it was the right thing for me to do to leave a religion I had questioned for years. I wasn't 'lead' by anyone. I finally had the courage to woman up and do the right thing for myself. If that bothers you, and you think people can only be 'led' to do things, it is because that's what you do in your own life. Don't project your weaknesses onto me. It won't work.

I think anyone who actually knows me will tell you that I am not easily influenced by anyone any more. I was 'led' when I was a Christian because I allowed myself to be. That will never happen again.

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