Why I’m no longer a Christian

Since: Mar 09

Location hidden

#422711 Nov 26, 2012
AnnieJ wrote:
<quoted text>
Most if not all of those quotes were from politicians Steve. They say lots of things that they don't really believe!
So what are you suggesting we do? Assume without any reason otherwise other than they were politicians to anything ever spoken by anyone in public office may be a lie and throw out all known quotes, speeches, letters, etc?

These were the founding fathers and they wrote the constitution we bide by and by whose ideals we supposedly are trying to emulate as a country. Is it possible they were all lying all the time or maybe just when it had to do with God? I guess. But for me I tend to assume someone is credible until shown otherwise

(T) Peace

Since: Mar 09

Location hidden

#422712 Nov 26, 2012
HipGnosis wrote:
<quoted text>Well, let me be clear first what you're proposing. Is this the "America was founded by Christians as a Christian nation" debate? If so, I'll be taking the dissenting position (surprise, surprise;) First, I would take the very easiest to debunk, which would be Franklin and Jefferson. The others are somewhat more nuanced, but doable. But I'll ask you to confirm your premise first before I waste our time.
My premise is simply the founding fathers believed in God and when they spoke of a separation of church and state it was a very specific separation that was meant only to apply to the creation of LAW

"Congress shall make no law respecting an establishment of religion, or prohibiting the free exercise thereof.."

It is my belief it was the intent of the founding fathers that anyone could practice any religion of their choosing and that nobody could be forced into following any religion. And that so long as a citizen did not infringe on the rights of others and stayed within the law, it did not matter if he was in the private or public sector, he was allowed to make his personal religious beliefs known.

"Congress shall make no law respecting an establishment of religion, or prohibiting the free exercise thereof.."

My personal beliefs are that some areas it should be separate when the lack thereof infringes on the rights of others. A courtroom would be one example as everyone is entitled to an unbiased justice system that is blind to anything but justice. I think there is an argument for things like school prayer that it is basically forced (because not participating ostracizes the children in the minority) unless the time is set aside for those of all faiths to get to practice their religion while Christians are practicing theirs. But I think it is absurd things like nativity scenes have to be taken down or Christmas plays can't have Christmas songs (although now the courts have ruled they can) or that people in public jobs can't let their own religious opinions known or that people in stores can't say Merry Christmas, or things of that nature. The approval or agreement of others is not required so long as a citizen is within the law

But back to my premise on the founding fathers and that again is simply as it related to law when it comes to separation of church and state and they intended any man to be able to practice any religion of his choosing

(T) Peace

Since: Mar 09

Location hidden

#422713 Nov 26, 2012
Catcher1 wrote:
<quoted text>
Following you around?
Paranoid much?
Maybe I'm God, you better be careful!
Nah, I know an insecure weirdo when I see one

And you did say you were watching me right?

Since: Mar 09

Location hidden

#422714 Nov 26, 2012
Edit Hip:

Sorry, should have said my premise is most believed in God and their principles and morals were rooted in faith. However they felt all people should be able to worship as they please, in any faith they choose, or none at all. And that the government never make laws favoring a religion or prohibiting the worship of one

“Live Love Laugh”

Since: Aug 07

Rings of Saturn Emporium

#422715 Nov 26, 2012
Skombolis wrote:
<quoted text>
Enjoy your foot once you pry it out of your mouth as I researched and linked the quotes other than one which I admitted could not be substantiated. None of the others had anything to do with Barton
This is why so many people find you so annoying W_N. You come on here like you are drunk, disregard the fact that my only contact with you thus far is checking in to see how your son is doing and leaving you a message from someone else passing along well wishes, and then come off like an uneducated lunatic who is not even smart enough to realize she is trying to act condescending when she is dead wrong. Grow up or try to anyway
So checking on my son should be reason for me not to disagree with your posts?

That's pretty sad, especially considering you weren't checking on him out of any interest of your own but for others who had asked.

You had to come back here as Skombolis in order to take the heat off for the moment but no one here is gullible enough to buy into your sacrosanct act.

No one can disagree with you without causing just the type of crap you posted above. You at least behaved a little better while writing as a sock.

Since: Mar 09

Location hidden

#422716 Nov 26, 2012
water_nymph wrote:
<quoted text> So checking on my son should be reason for me not to disagree with your posts?
That's pretty sad, especially considering you weren't checking on him out of any interest of your own but for others who had asked.
You had to come back here as Skombolis in order to take the heat off for the moment but no one here is gullible enough to buy into your sacrosanct act.
No one can disagree with you without causing just the type of crap you posted above. You at least behaved a little better while writing as a sock.
For starters I asked peopel to pray for him so nice try

Secondly you weren't just disagreeing. You were coming off like a snactimonious ass for no reason and when you were wrong

W_N said:

"It is evident that you do not have the skills to be a researcher of any sort, much less history. You buy into whatever someone says that agrees with what you already believe, regardless of whether it is factual or not.

David Barton. Hahahaha"

What kind of lunatic resorts to this level of discourse for no reason, let alone when the only contact is checking in on your family?

I have no problem meeting you lunatics at your level. And I don't need other identities. I stand behind everything I say. Unlike you and when you were a professing Christian when you first came to Topix but decided you wanted to be liked by the other side so you changed your beliefs and now every chance you can you try to present yourself as someone so far removed from the faith. You are a pretender.

“BE BRAVE ENOUGH ”

Since: Oct 09

TO STEP IN MUD PUDDLES

#422717 Nov 26, 2012
Skombolis wrote:
<quoted text> So what are you suggesting we do? Assume without any reason otherwise other than they were politicians to anything ever spoken by anyone in public office may be a lie and throw out all known quotes, speeches, letters, etc?
These were the founding fathers and they wrote the constitution we bide by and by whose ideals we supposedly are trying to emulate as a country. Is it possible they were all lying all the time or maybe just when it had to do with God? I guess. But for me I tend to assume someone is credible until shown otherwise
(T) Peace
It was a bit of humor Steve...meant to possibly lighten the mood.

“Live Love Laugh”

Since: Aug 07

Rings of Saturn Emporium

#422718 Nov 26, 2012
Skombolis wrote:
<quoted text>
Why do you always say things like "when I was growing up"? Or when I was a kid?
Just about everybody knows you were a professed Christian when you first showed up on Topix and just got talked out of being one only a few years ago. So you can just say "in my church up until a few years ago" instead of trying to pretend you left this all behind you so long ago
I don't 'always' say things like that. I say it when it pertains to something that has changed since I was a child. Surely you could find something much more egregious in my post for which you can condemn me.

Yes, I was a Christian. I was a Christian who had many, many questions. I can't say that Topix fundies did any more to help me make the final decision to leave than to be themselves.

I didn't make any comment that could be read as having left Christianity long ago. Your interpretation of what I said is completely off base.

Just because I mention what happened in my childhood doesn't by any stretch of the imagination say that I left Christendom as a child. That's added on by you.

I realize it's been hard for you to hold in all the hatred for the last week or so while you tried again to convince people that you are the only ones with the answers. Your restraint is admirable. But when you couldn't convince people how great you are, you came back as Skombolis so you could say the things you really wanted to say without sullying a sock. That's about as funny as it gets.

Now, if you want to damn me for leaving Christianity, you're very late in the game. All your fundie brothers and sisters have already done so. Yours will be a pebble instead of a rock.

You are narcissistic to the nth degree. You are not as brilliant as you would like everyone to think you are. When someone calls you on some of the things you say, a post like the ones you've written to me ensues.

I don't agree with your beliefs. You don't agree that it was the right thing for me to do to leave a religion I had questioned for years. I wasn't 'lead' by anyone. I finally had the courage to woman up and do the right thing for myself. If that bothers you, and you think people can only be 'led' to do things, it is because that's what you do in your own life. Don't project your weaknesses onto me. It won't work.

I think anyone who actually knows me will tell you that I am not easily influenced by anyone any more. I was 'led' when I was a Christian because I allowed myself to be. That will never happen again.

Since: Mar 09

Location hidden

#422719 Nov 26, 2012
LOL...I know know where the icons come from in the other room!

Hey Catcher!

You showed me! I put an icon over your icons to show you. Then maybe later we can meet in the cafeteria and pull a girl's hair that we like?

~snicker

Since: Mar 09

Location hidden

#422720 Nov 26, 2012
AnnieJ wrote:
<quoted text>
It was a bit of humor Steve...meant to possibly lighten the mood.
Ah

Given we were just off coming off an elevtion cycle where it seems all politicians do is try to appease voters I could see why someone might have been predisposed at this time over others to make the point you did, even though I didn't agree with it insofar as it is all we have to go by

But in hindsight I should have realized you were being facetious.

Is it too late to laugh?

I will (smile) instead!

(T) Peace

“Live Love Laugh”

Since: Aug 07

Rings of Saturn Emporium

#422721 Nov 26, 2012
Skombolis wrote:
<quoted text>
For starters I asked peopel to pray for him so nice try
Secondly you weren't just disagreeing. You were coming off like a snactimonious ass for no reason and when you were wrong
W_N said:
"It is evident that you do not have the skills to be a researcher of any sort, much less history. You buy into whatever someone says that agrees with what you already believe, regardless of whether it is factual or not.
David Barton. Hahahaha"
What kind of lunatic resorts to this level of discourse for no reason, let alone when the only contact is checking in on your family?
I have no problem meeting you lunatics at your level. And I don't need other identities. I stand behind everything I say. Unlike you and when you were a professing Christian when you first came to Topix but decided you wanted to be liked by the other side so you changed your beliefs and now every chance you can you try to present yourself as someone so far removed from the faith. You are a pretender.
I will repeat the question:
How does you checking on my son (for someone else) mean that I should not disagaree with you?

You are like those people who said 'But I prayed for your son' when I disagreed with them on something of a religious nature. It was if praying for him, or in your case asking others to do so, allows you to do whatever you like while I sit silent.

I appreciate every sincere prayer that was said for his healing. I don't think there should be a payback for you or anyone else for having done so. In fact, I think that's as evil as evil gets to expect something from someone for prayer. The Catholic church did that for several centuries. I guess it hasn't really died out.

Since: Mar 09

Location hidden

#422722 Nov 26, 2012
water_nymph wrote:
<quoted text>
Just because I mention what happened in my childhood doesn't by any stretch of the imagination say that I left Christendom as a child. That's added on by you.
I have seen you repeatedly write in a manner that if someone didn't know they would think you left ages ago. With your "typical Christian" comments and always referring to it like it was so long ago. You were a professing Christian until you came here. You still slip up and talk about having spiritual experiences and then have no answer when asked to explain how that is possible when you don't believe in anything spiritual. You are a fraud. But it is not like you are the first on Topix to do a 180 on their beliefs for companionship
water_nymph wrote:
<quoted text>
I realize it's been hard for you to hold in all the hatred for the last week or so while you tried again to convince people that you are the only ones with the answers. Your restraint is admirable. But when you couldn't convince people how great you are, you came back as Skombolis so you could say the things you really wanted to say without sullying a sock. That's about as funny as it gets.
Now, if you want to damn me for leaving Christianity, you're very late in the game. All your fundie brothers and sisters have already done so. Yours will be a pebble instead of a rock.
Hey crazy person, I have never posted as anybody but Skombolis.
water_nymph wrote:
<quoted text>
I don't agree with your beliefs. You don't agree that it was the right thing for me to do to leave a religion I had questioned for years. I wasn't 'lead' by anyone. I finally had the courage to woman up and do the right thing for myself. If that bothers you, and you think people can only be 'led' to do things, it is because that's what you do in your own life. Don't project your weaknesses onto me. It won't work.
I think anyone who actually knows me will tell you that I am not easily influenced by anyone any more. I was 'led' when I was a Christian because I allowed myself to be. That will never happen again.
I have told you repeatedly I am glad you left. I said according to my beliefs i think it was a mistake. It wasn't a mistake for you to leave as you were a fraud. Why would we want a pretender who would throw away 60 years of beliefs to get in good with people on Topix? Don't let the door hit ya on the way out would have been my advice.

Since: Mar 09

Location hidden

#422723 Nov 26, 2012
water_nymph wrote:
<quoted text>I will repeat the question:
How does you checking on my son (for someone else) mean that I should not disagaree with you?
I will REPEAT my answer:

Secondly you weren't just disagreeing. You were coming off like a snactimonious ass for no reason and when you were wrong

W_N said:

"It is evident that you do not have the skills to be a researcher of any sort, much less history. You buy into whatever someone says that agrees with what you already believe, regardless of whether it is factual or not.

David Barton. Hahahaha"

What kind of lunatic resorts to this level of discourse for no reason, let alone when the only contact is checking in on your family?

I have no problem meeting you lunatics at your level. And I don't need other identities. I stand behind everything I say.

See if it sinks in this time. If you can't figure out the problem by now with your response and how that is not simply disagreeing you are either more dishonest than I realized or just in some form or crazy denial.

“The future begins”

Since: Jul 07

every moment

#422724 Nov 26, 2012
Skombolis wrote:
<quoted text>
My premise is simply the founding fathers believed in God and when they spoke of a separation of church and state it was a very specific separation that was meant only to apply to the creation of LAW

"Congress shall make no law respecting an establishment of religion, or prohibiting the free exercise thereof.."

It is my belief it was the intent of the founding fathers that anyone could practice any religion of their choosing and that nobody could be forced into following any religion. And that so long as a citizen did not infringe on the rights of others and stayed within the law, it did not matter if he was in the private or public sector, he was allowed to make his personal religious beliefs known.

"Congress shall make no law respecting an establishment of religion, or prohibiting the free exercise thereof.."

My personal beliefs are that some areas it should be separate when the lack thereof infringes on the rights of others. A courtroom would be one example as everyone is entitled to an unbiased justice system that is blind to anything but justice. I think there is an argument for things like school prayer that it is basically forced (because not participating ostracizes the children in the minority) unless the time is set aside for those of all faiths to get to practice their religion while Christians are practicing theirs. But I think it is absurd things like nativity scenes have to be taken down or Christmas plays can't have Christmas songs (although now the courts have ruled they can) or that people in public jobs can't let their own religious opinions known or that people in stores can't say Merry Christmas, or things of that nature. The approval or agreement of others is not required so long as a citizen is within the law

But back to my premise on the founding fathers and that again is simply as it related to law when it comes to separation of church and state and they intended any man to be able to practice any religion of his choosing
(T) Peace
Well, there's a couple of minor quibbles in there in application, but overall I don't think we have anything to argue about. The majority did believe in the concept of a God/Creator, altho' they rejected the Biblical representation of a God involved in people's daily lives. There were Christians, for sure, at the Constitutional Convention, but the movers and shakers we speak about most often as Founding Fathers were largely some form of Deist, as I'm sure you know. Right in the middle of The Enlightened Age, they believed that scientific discovery was the true Revelation into God's plan and handiwork. Rather than just play dueling quotes, I'd suggest reading Jefferson's Bible for an idea as to how he felt about orthodox Christianity; for Franklin one need only read his autobiography.

As far as application - well, when a nation has established founding principles, I guess we need to decide how stringent we want to adhere to those principles. Nativity scenes can be displayed anywhere someone wants to set it up - except on public property. It's really a non-issue. You start fudging your principles to satisfy the majority and you sow the seeds of mob tyranny. As far as "You can't say, "Merry Christmas"? Really? Who passed that law? I'm pretty sure you ain't no Faux Noize fan, so be careful about buying into the spillover hype. If it's a store policy, well, hey, that's private property. They can do whatever they can get away with.

Peace backatcha.
H

“The future begins”

Since: Jul 07

every moment

#422725 Nov 26, 2012
Skombolis wrote:
<quoted text>
Ah
Given we were just off coming off an elevtion cycle where it seems all politicians do is try to appease voters I could see why someone might have been predisposed at this time over others to make the point you did, even though I didn't agree with it insofar as it is all we have to go by
But in hindsight I should have realized you were being facetious.
Is it too late to laugh?
I will (smile) instead!
(T) Peace
I know you know how to laugh so....I'm gonna go out on a limb here and suggest you maybe were bored and came in here looking to dance. Whaddyathink? That's cool and all,'cos that's what this Hokey-Pokey's all about, but if it's the least bit true, is it really copacetic to be smug with all these other folks who stepped up to sign your dance card? You caught me off-guard, for one - I wasn't sure what you were after with your initial post.

“xcntrik.wordpres s.com”

Since: Mar 07

Location hidden

#422726 Nov 26, 2012
lightbeamrider wrote:
<quoted text> ...to say Jesus death via Pilate is not established history is just false.

...but the debate over established historical facts concerning the life of Jesus is closed, for the most part, at least amoung those who do the actual research and have 30+ years experience in their fields. Like Ehrman. For example.
Perhaps you should read Ehrman.

Misquoting Bart

Since: Jul 08

Columbus, OH

#422727 Nov 26, 2012
Xcntrik InVidor wrote:
<quoted text>
Perhaps you should read Ehrman.
Misquoting Bart
LOL@msiquoting Bart.

Since: Jul 08

Columbus, OH

#422728 Nov 26, 2012
AnnieJ wrote:
<quoted text>
It was a bit of humor Steve...meant to possibly lighten the mood.
water_nymph wrote:
<quoted text> I don't 'always' say things like that....
Skombolis wrote:
LOL...I know know where the icons come from in the other room!
....
HipGnosis wrote:
<quoted text>Well, there's a couple of minor quibbles in there in application, but overall I don't think we have anything to argue about....
H
Dang. It's good to see the old crowd.

“What are you looking at?”

Since: Jan 08

Albuquerque, NM

#422729 Nov 26, 2012
Skombolis wrote:
<quoted text>

Why don't you tell everybody how you told me I should reconsider how I am posting because "we are watching" and how you have tried several times to imply I need your permission to post?
Hi Skom - good to see ya posting.

If they are watching you, it means they "like you" - don't you know anything.

Think of your Jr. High days - guys picked on girls because they liked them; girls picked on guys, because they liked them.

So called "Christians" "watch" [future "picking ons" in the works], because they like you.

It's that simple!

:o)

Since: Sep 10

Long Beach, CA

#422730 Nov 26, 2012
Skombolis wrote:
<quoted text>
Nah, I know an insecure weirdo when I see one
And you did say you were watching me right?
What are you talking about?

Show me, don't tell me.

Pretend I'm from Missouri.

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