Why I’m no longer a Christian

“The future begins”

Since: Jul 07

every moment

#422724 Nov 26, 2012
Skombolis wrote:
<quoted text>
My premise is simply the founding fathers believed in God and when they spoke of a separation of church and state it was a very specific separation that was meant only to apply to the creation of LAW

"Congress shall make no law respecting an establishment of religion, or prohibiting the free exercise thereof.."

It is my belief it was the intent of the founding fathers that anyone could practice any religion of their choosing and that nobody could be forced into following any religion. And that so long as a citizen did not infringe on the rights of others and stayed within the law, it did not matter if he was in the private or public sector, he was allowed to make his personal religious beliefs known.

"Congress shall make no law respecting an establishment of religion, or prohibiting the free exercise thereof.."

My personal beliefs are that some areas it should be separate when the lack thereof infringes on the rights of others. A courtroom would be one example as everyone is entitled to an unbiased justice system that is blind to anything but justice. I think there is an argument for things like school prayer that it is basically forced (because not participating ostracizes the children in the minority) unless the time is set aside for those of all faiths to get to practice their religion while Christians are practicing theirs. But I think it is absurd things like nativity scenes have to be taken down or Christmas plays can't have Christmas songs (although now the courts have ruled they can) or that people in public jobs can't let their own religious opinions known or that people in stores can't say Merry Christmas, or things of that nature. The approval or agreement of others is not required so long as a citizen is within the law

But back to my premise on the founding fathers and that again is simply as it related to law when it comes to separation of church and state and they intended any man to be able to practice any religion of his choosing
(T) Peace
Well, there's a couple of minor quibbles in there in application, but overall I don't think we have anything to argue about. The majority did believe in the concept of a God/Creator, altho' they rejected the Biblical representation of a God involved in people's daily lives. There were Christians, for sure, at the Constitutional Convention, but the movers and shakers we speak about most often as Founding Fathers were largely some form of Deist, as I'm sure you know. Right in the middle of The Enlightened Age, they believed that scientific discovery was the true Revelation into God's plan and handiwork. Rather than just play dueling quotes, I'd suggest reading Jefferson's Bible for an idea as to how he felt about orthodox Christianity; for Franklin one need only read his autobiography.

As far as application - well, when a nation has established founding principles, I guess we need to decide how stringent we want to adhere to those principles. Nativity scenes can be displayed anywhere someone wants to set it up - except on public property. It's really a non-issue. You start fudging your principles to satisfy the majority and you sow the seeds of mob tyranny. As far as "You can't say, "Merry Christmas"? Really? Who passed that law? I'm pretty sure you ain't no Faux Noize fan, so be careful about buying into the spillover hype. If it's a store policy, well, hey, that's private property. They can do whatever they can get away with.

Peace backatcha.
H

“The future begins”

Since: Jul 07

every moment

#422725 Nov 26, 2012
Skombolis wrote:
<quoted text>
Ah
Given we were just off coming off an elevtion cycle where it seems all politicians do is try to appease voters I could see why someone might have been predisposed at this time over others to make the point you did, even though I didn't agree with it insofar as it is all we have to go by
But in hindsight I should have realized you were being facetious.
Is it too late to laugh?
I will (smile) instead!
(T) Peace
I know you know how to laugh so....I'm gonna go out on a limb here and suggest you maybe were bored and came in here looking to dance. Whaddyathink? That's cool and all,'cos that's what this Hokey-Pokey's all about, but if it's the least bit true, is it really copacetic to be smug with all these other folks who stepped up to sign your dance card? You caught me off-guard, for one - I wasn't sure what you were after with your initial post.

“xcntrik.wordpres s.com”

Since: Mar 07

Location hidden

#422726 Nov 26, 2012
lightbeamrider wrote:
<quoted text> ...to say Jesus death via Pilate is not established history is just false.

...but the debate over established historical facts concerning the life of Jesus is closed, for the most part, at least amoung those who do the actual research and have 30+ years experience in their fields. Like Ehrman. For example.
Perhaps you should read Ehrman.

Misquoting Bart

Since: Jul 08

Columbus, OH

#422727 Nov 26, 2012
Xcntrik InVidor wrote:
<quoted text>
Perhaps you should read Ehrman.
Misquoting Bart
[email protected] Bart.

Since: Jul 08

Columbus, OH

#422728 Nov 26, 2012
AnnieJ wrote:
<quoted text>
It was a bit of humor Steve...meant to possibly lighten the mood.
water_nymph wrote:
<quoted text> I don't 'always' say things like that....
Skombolis wrote:
LOL...I know know where the icons come from in the other room!
....
HipGnosis wrote:
<quoted text>Well, there's a couple of minor quibbles in there in application, but overall I don't think we have anything to argue about....
H
Dang. It's good to see the old crowd.

“What are you looking at?”

Since: Jan 08

Albuquerque, NM

#422729 Nov 26, 2012
Skombolis wrote:
<quoted text>

Why don't you tell everybody how you told me I should reconsider how I am posting because "we are watching" and how you have tried several times to imply I need your permission to post?
Hi Skom - good to see ya posting.

If they are watching you, it means they "like you" - don't you know anything.

Think of your Jr. High days - guys picked on girls because they liked them; girls picked on guys, because they liked them.

So called "Christians" "watch" [future "picking ons" in the works], because they like you.

It's that simple!

:o)

Since: Sep 10

Hermosa Beach, CA

#422730 Nov 26, 2012
Skombolis wrote:
<quoted text>
Nah, I know an insecure weirdo when I see one
And you did say you were watching me right?
What are you talking about?

Show me, don't tell me.

Pretend I'm from Missouri.

Since: Jul 08

Columbus, OH

#422731 Nov 26, 2012
Chess Jurist wrote:
<quoted text>
[email protected] Bart.
Oops. Misquoting.

Too many winter lagers.

“The future begins”

Since: Jul 07

every moment

#422732 Nov 26, 2012
Xcntrik InVidor wrote:
<quoted text>
Perhaps you should read Ehrman.
Misquoting Bart
Josh 3:16 "If ya can't beat 'em, assimilate 'em."

“What are you looking at?”

Since: Jan 08

Albuquerque, NM

#422733 Nov 26, 2012
Skombolis wrote:
<quoted text>
My premise is simply the founding fathers believed in God and when they spoke of a separation of church and state it was a very specific separation that was meant only to apply to the creation of LAW
"Congress shall make no law respecting an establishment of religion, or prohibiting the free exercise thereof.."
It is my belief it was the intent of the founding fathers that anyone could practice any religion of their choosing and that nobody could be forced into following any religion. And that so long as a citizen did not infringe on the rights of others and stayed within the law, it did not matter if he was in the private or public sector, he was allowed to make his personal religious beliefs known.
"Congress shall make no law respecting an establishment of religion, or prohibiting the free exercise thereof.."
My personal beliefs are that some areas it should be separate when the lack thereof infringes on the rights of others. A courtroom would be one example as everyone is entitled to an unbiased justice system that is blind to anything but justice. I think there is an argument for things like school prayer that it is basically forced (because not participating ostracizes the children in the minority) unless the time is set aside for those of all faiths to get to practice their religion while Christians are practicing theirs. But I think it is absurd things like nativity scenes have to be taken down or Christmas plays can't have Christmas songs (although now the courts have ruled they can) or that people in public jobs can't let their own religious opinions known or that people in stores can't say Merry Christmas, or things of that nature. The approval or agreement of others is not required so long as a citizen is within the law
But back to my premise on the founding fathers and that again is simply as it related to law when it comes to separation of church and state and they intended any man to be able to practice any religion of his choosing
(T) Peace
"Congress shall make no law respecting an establishment of religion, or prohibiting the free exercise thereof.."

Just ponder of this statement for a moment, and then apply it to the issue of contraceptives for "Christian" companies.

It is a problem with Obamacare.

Just thinking out loud. Mainly off-topic, but it is an interesting take on "the separation of church and state".

Cheers!

http://politix.topix.com/homepage/3549-obamac...

“The future begins”

Since: Jul 07

every moment

#422734 Nov 26, 2012
Chess Jurist wrote:
<quoted text>
<quoted text>
<quoted text>
<quoted text>
Dang. It's good to see the old crowd.
Old? I'm a natural blonde, thank you. Jus' blonder.

Gooda "see" ya CJ!

Since: Sep 10

Hermosa Beach, CA

#422735 Nov 26, 2012
Skombolis wrote:
LOL...I know know where the icons come from in the other room!
Hey Catcher!
You showed me! I put an icon over your icons to show you. Then maybe later we can meet in the cafeteria and pull a girl's hair that we like?
~snicker
What are you talking about, icons?

“What are you looking at?”

Since: Jan 08

Albuquerque, NM

#422736 Nov 26, 2012
Chess Jurist wrote:
<quoted text>
<quoted text>
<quoted text>
<quoted text>
Dang. It's good to see the old crowd.
*feels left out*

*sighs*

:o)

“BE BRAVE ENOUGH ”

Since: Oct 09

TO STEP IN MUD PUDDLES

#422737 Nov 26, 2012
Chess Jurist wrote:
<quoted text>
<quoted text>
<quoted text>
<quoted text>
Dang. It's good to see the old crowd.
You should stick around and join us!

Since: Jul 08

Columbus, OH

#422738 Nov 26, 2012
HipGnosis wrote:
<quoted text>Old? I'm a natural blonde, thank you. Jus' blonder.
Gooda "see" ya CJ!
Well, I'm working on decrepit. That Just for Men stuff only helps so much.

Really. Good to see everyone.

Since: Jul 08

Columbus, OH

#422739 Nov 26, 2012
New Age Spiritual Leader wrote:
<quoted text>
*feels left out*
*sighs*
:o)
LOL. Don't.

Since: Jul 08

Columbus, OH

#422740 Nov 26, 2012
AnnieJ wrote:
<quoted text>
You should stick around and join us!
I miss you much, Annie.

“Are you a Problem or Solution?”

Since: Mar 09

Ann Arbor, MI

#422741 Nov 26, 2012
Chess Jurist wrote:
<quoted text>
Oops. Misquoting.
Too many winter lagers.
Could you possibly pass one or two this way? ;O) Hey Chess, good to read you!

“BE BRAVE ENOUGH ”

Since: Oct 09

TO STEP IN MUD PUDDLES

#422742 Nov 26, 2012
Skombolis wrote:
<quoted text>
Ah
Given we were just off coming off an elevtion cycle where it seems all politicians do is try to appease voters I could see why someone might have been predisposed at this time over others to make the point you did, even though I didn't agree with it insofar as it is all we have to go by
But in hindsight I should have realized you were being facetious.
Is it too late to laugh?
I will (smile) instead!
(T) Peace
:-)

I am not sure that I will get involved in this conversation...might make me have to get ugly! LOL

Oh...okay...probably won't be able to keep my mouth shut!:-)

“BE BRAVE ENOUGH ”

Since: Oct 09

TO STEP IN MUD PUDDLES

#422743 Nov 26, 2012
Chess Jurist wrote:
<quoted text>
I miss you much, Annie.
Me you too CJ.

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