“Love much, trust none”

Since: Jul 11

There

#422408 Nov 25, 2012
Resurrectionologist wrote:
<quoted text>
....
So in a nutshell, the writings of Origen and Irenaeus do claim that Matthew wrote his gospel in Aramaic/Hebrew while still in Palestine, and this is consistent with the language and Jewish themes we see there. Now I have admitted that I am speculating when I say he probably took notes while Jesus was still alive, as we really have no way of knowing. But on it's own merit, as a tax collector, wouldn't it be sensible to consider that he was literate and had access to writing materials?
Also, St Augustine quotes from Eusebius and other early church fathers as such:(Before dismissing it, look it up and read it for yourself. I am much more interested in pointing you in the right direction than I am trying to convince you myself)
"Now, those four evangelists whose names have gained the most remarkable circulation over the whole world, and whose number has been fixed as four,are believed to have written in the order which follows: first Matthew, then Mark, thirdly Luke, lastly John."
"Of these four, it is true, only Matthew is reckoned to have written in the Hebrew language; the others in Greek. And however they may appear to have kept each of them a certain order of narration proper to himself, this certainly is not to be taken as if each individual writer chose to write in ignorance of what his predecessor had done."
-St. Augustine, The Harmony of the Gospels, 2.
In other words, you have no thoughts of your own but simply let a handful of dark age lunatics tell you what to think.

OK

“Live Love Laugh”

Since: Aug 07

Rings of Saturn Emporium

#422409 Nov 25, 2012
lightbeamrider wrote:
<quoted text> To warn. So your blood will be on your own head and not the head of the Christian
More scare tactics for little innocent children and feeble-minded adults.

When will you learn that no one here is going to buy your snake oil?

“We AreTheGranddaugh ters Of The”

Since: May 10

WitchesYou Were Unable To Burn

#422410 Nov 25, 2012
Grace Walker wrote:
<quoted text>
I went to Jerusalem in March of 09...We actually took the Exodus Tour that started in Egypt. We stayed there for 3 days and then went on to Israel for 6 days. We visited Bethleham, Jerusalem and Jericho. We had our Sunday morning service on a boat on the Sea of Galilee. Did you ride that boat too? Most people do. I was baptized in the River Jordon. We went to the Western Wall (wailing wall)..Very interesting. We walked the via Delarosa, Rode the cable car to the top of The Mount of Temptation. Went to the garden of Gethsemne and the garden Tomb. I saw so much while I was there. We are planning to go back in a few years. Wonderful, wonderful trip. I rode a Camel a few times while I was there. I loved it...I took about 1800 pictures while I was there. We stayed at the Olive Tree Hotel while we was in Jerusalem....Awesome trip. I will never forget it...
Resurrectionologist wrote:
<quoted text>
I didn't get to do the boat ride. My first trip there was in 1998 as a tourist. There was a lot to do. The Western Wall was really nice.
Did you know that the spot that is believed to be the site of the crucifixion is now a bus terminal?
Apparently because they know something you don't want to know.

“We AreTheGranddaugh ters Of The”

Since: May 10

WitchesYou Were Unable To Burn

#422411 Nov 25, 2012
DeathOnCouch wrote:
<quoted text>
Freakin crybaby.
Hateful believer.

“Selected Marksman”

Since: Aug 08

Northern Virginia

#422412 Nov 25, 2012
Resurrectionologist wrote:
<quoted text>
Boom? More like "fizzle."
Only in your mind...
Nice try but you fail once again.

“Live Love Laugh”

Since: Aug 07

Rings of Saturn Emporium

#422413 Nov 25, 2012
Resurrectionologist wrote:
<quoted text>
I didn't get to do the boat ride. My first trip there was in 1998 as a tourist. There was a lot to do. The Western Wall was really nice.
Did you know that the spot that is believed to be the site of the crucifixion is now a bus terminal? I would love to go to the Jordan River for a baptism. I did see them taking place, but I was more interested in seeing the other sites such as the Pool of Bethsaida and Mount of Olives, Garden of Gethsemane, The Garden Tomb. Being a historian, I was thrilled when I was granted access to the Israeli Antiquities Authority for a rare glimpse of archeological survey sites in Israel. When I presented my identification to the guard I expected him to just brush me off as another curious tourist. I was startled when he made a call and somebody actually came to the door and escorted me inside. I was like a kid in a candy store! I didn't expect access without an appointment, and the next thing I know I'm talking face to face with the assistant director for archeological surveys! That's how I got my second visit in 2005! It was work related and I got to observe some archeological digs! It's amazing to watch! Some of the writing I did from that trip was used as a basis for creating some new exhibits in some prominent museums!
Are you aware that there were two towns known as Bethlehem and that the one who fits the description in the Bible is not the one tourists are led to?

How would anyone know where Jesus was crucified? Thousands of people were crucified at that time. They lined the Roman roads and hills. Since there is no Roman record of Jesus being crucified, there is no placement for a crucifixion. You've been sold a bill of goods.

I have a nail I'd like to sell you.

“Love much, trust none”

Since: Jul 11

There

#422414 Nov 25, 2012
HipGnosis wrote:
<quoted text>Good stuff, Maynard.
Isn't Iraneus the one who rationalizes the use of four gospels, because there were "four winds, and four corners of the earth", so it just seemed right and proper that there should be four gospels?
If it weren't for that "sound arguement" (LOL) the Gospel of John would have been burned as a Gnosic heresy. John was the least objectionable narrative they could add.

Too bad the idea of the Trinity didn;t exist then so they could have made a better "arguement" for leaving John out.

“Selected Marksman”

Since: Aug 08

Northern Virginia

#422416 Nov 25, 2012
water_nymph wrote:
<quoted text> More scare tactics for little innocent children and feeble-minded adults.
When will you learn that no one here is going to buy your snake oil?
Unfortunately only when there are no more children to scare.
vancester

Chisinau, Moldova

#422417 Nov 25, 2012

“We AreTheGranddaugh ters Of The”

Since: May 10

WitchesYou Were Unable To Burn

#422418 Nov 25, 2012
Mary Palm wrote:
<quoted text>Well, since you made most of those up, you must feel about them as you do about your religion.
The more radical jesus people love to yammer about "voluntary public prayer." Didn't their own "messiah" tell them they were supposed to pray in private?

“Love much, trust none”

Since: Jul 11

There

#422419 Nov 25, 2012
karl44 wrote:
<quoted text>
..I reject "belief" as "a way of knowing", and as a way of feeling, and finally, I reject belief as a philosophy. Which is another way of saying, that I have no respect for any human who employs belief as "a way of knowing".
I agree with you. My beliefs are not knowledge. I know nothing about God or Jesus. I do base my beliefs on my knowledge and that knowledge changes as do my beliefs.

"These things that I believe, I hold as personal truths. However, when met with compelling evidence to the contrary I will abandon my current beliefs as one would run from a rabid dog" - Me

“Selected Marksman”

Since: Aug 08

Northern Virginia

#422420 Nov 25, 2012
G_O_D wrote:
<quoted text>
I got tired of the accusations so posted them. Just like many professionals place them on their office walls. It proves that some organization has confered a level of authority in a particular subject.
I ran out of room on my wall.
I had a Ferret, Mijo, in the 70's. He was quite the charactor and a great friend. I miss him.

“We AreTheGranddaugh ters Of The”

Since: May 10

WitchesYou Were Unable To Burn

#422421 Nov 25, 2012
Mary Palm wrote:
<quoted text>I know your response is going to be further dodge, evade, lather, rinse, and repeat, but this statement is utter, unadulterated bullshit wrapped up in vague language. The right to display Nativity scenes has not been suppressed. You can display as many Nativity scenes as you want to. What you don't have is a right to use taxpayer money to do so. That has not been suppressed, that has been upheld all the way to the highest court in the land. Laws have meanings.
Resurrectionologist wrote:
<quoted text>
Obviously you have preconditioned ideas.
And you *don't?* MMWWAAAHAAAHAAAHAAAAHAAA!!!

“Love much, trust none”

Since: Jul 11

There

#422422 Nov 25, 2012
Mary Palm wrote:
<quoted text>Well, there was that church-like pedophile. And you were a C student, Jerry.
3.85 GPA. No sports.

Enjoy you stinky socks.

“Selected Marksman”

Since: Aug 08

Northern Virginia

#422423 Nov 25, 2012
Kaitlin the Wolf Witch wrote:
Kaitlin the Wolf Witch wrote:
This is what Christianity has done for you?
I'll pass. Thanks all the same.
<quoted text>
What part of the buybull is that from, angry hateful christian?
<quoted text>
This is the ugliness of christianity. Thanks for showing it, and driving people away from your religion of hate.
It's beyond a religion...it's a cult of hate.

“Love much, trust none”

Since: Jul 11

There

#422424 Nov 25, 2012
Kaitlin the Wolf Witch wrote:
<quoted text>
The more radical jesus people love to yammer about "voluntary public prayer." Didn't their own "messiah" tell them they were supposed to pray in private?
Correct.

Chrisitains rarely follow the teachings of Jesus.

Since: Sep 12

Location hidden

#422425 Nov 25, 2012
Mr Wiggley wrote:
<quoted text>
I hate to tell you what a failure your little story is.
You are trying to compare a 20th Century event with that of an ancient event. The written records of that time would be near nothing. The eye witnesses, if you could find them would be scarce.
Total failure....
Failure? Not so fast there Chicago Tribune!("Dewey Defeats Truman!" look that up here: http://www.deweydefeatstruman.com/ )

The written "records" you say? Are you referring to the official records of the 12th Precinct of the Roman garrison in Jerusalem or the Temple Guard over in the 11th Ward?(LOL @ you)

FYI, the 4 gospels are ancient attempts at biographies. They aren't modern biographies, and they are primitive by our own standards, but they do attempt to record what Jesus said and did. Now you need to understand that the culture of that time didn't really place much emphasis on Jesus' life as a young child. It wouldn't have mattered in the context of what He accomplished in adulthood.

Now, as it relates to my example, the Gospel of Luke is actually a letter and starts with a prologue that is intended to assure a wealthy Roman citizen (Theophilus) that what has been passed down by oral tradition is correct. This prologue points to the exact same historical method that I described in my JFK scenario. The same process was used then, and is still in use today. Here is the opening passage in Luke that illustrates this:

" (1)Many people have set out to write accounts about the events that have been fulfilled among us.(2) They used the eyewitness reports circulating among us from the early disciples.(3) Having carefully investigated everything from the beginning, I also have decided to write a careful account for you, most honorable Theophilus,(4) so you can be certain of the truth of everything you were taught." -Luke 1:1-4

This statement is written to show historical integrity, and if written even with 50 years of the time of Jesus' would still be accurate.

Your comparison of 1st century reporting and 20th century reporting is historical ethnocentrism, because we cannot transpose our methods upon that culture at that time in history. Their culture was different, and to accurately understand them, we have to adapt to their style when interpreting both the text and the purpose of their writing.

Would you compare a 1922 Model T Ford to a 2012 Ford Fusion if you were interested in how the Ford Model T was designed? No. You would stick with the story of the Model T. Now if you were talking about the engineering history of the Ford Motor Company, then you could show the changes in design and manufacturing, and how Ford became more efficient through time. But you still wouldn't compare the Fusion to the Model T, because the Model T was the latest technology available from 1908 to about 1926-27.

Cultural ethnocentrism might be valid when comparing something like modern political views with opposing modern political views,(or religions) but not with regard to history.

I'm sorry if I've made too much sense for you folks to handle today.

I'll take a break and let your minds relax. I can smell the smoke from here.

“Live Love Laugh”

Since: Aug 07

Rings of Saturn Emporium

#422426 Nov 25, 2012
Mary Palm wrote:
<quoted text>When did that happen? Your analogy fails for two reasons. It is not a direct comparative and is not always the case. Add one cup of vinegar to one cup of baking soda. Your yield will be less than two cups.
In base 1, 1 + 1 = 11. In base 2, 1 + 1 = 10. In base 10, 1 + 1 = 2.
As Kitten so eloquently stated, math deals with proof, not evidence, here's a proof that 1 + 1 = 1:
Let a = 1 and b = 1.
Therefore a = b, by substitution.
If two numbers are equal, then their squares are equal, too:
a^2 = b^2.
Now subtract b^2 from both sides (if an equation is true, then if you subtract the same thing from both sides, the result is also a true equation) so
a^2 - b^2 = 0.
Now the lefthand side of the equation is a form known as "the difference of two squares" and can be factored into (a-b)*(a+b). If you don't believe me, then try multiplying it out carefully,
and you will see that it's correct. So:
(a-b)*(a+b)= 0.
Now if you have an equation, you can divide both sides by the same thing, right? Let's divide by (a-b), so we get:
(a-b)*(a+b)/(a-b)= 0/(a-b).
On the lefthand side, the (a-b)/(a-b) simplifies to 1, right? and the righthand side simplifies to 0, right? So we get:
1*(a+b)= 0,
and since 1* anything = that same anything, then we have:
(a+b)= 0.
But a = 1 and b = 1, so:
1 + 1 = 0, or 2 = 0.
Now let's divide both sides by 2, and we get:
1 = 0.
Then we add 1 to both sides, and we get:
1 + 1 = 1.
Of course, there is a flaw in that, but I be you can't find it.
Okay, enough of that educated stuff. His head has spun right off his shoulders.

“We AreTheGranddaugh ters Of The”

Since: May 10

WitchesYou Were Unable To Burn

#422427 Nov 25, 2012
Just Results wrote:
<quoted text>
. I'll be laughing as I get to watch you punished, you gutless cowardly anonymous bigot.
Just home from church, are you? I can imagine what the sermon was about.

“Love much, trust none”

Since: Jul 11

There

#422428 Nov 25, 2012
Mr Wiggley wrote:
<quoted text>
I had a Ferret, Mijo, in the 70's. He was quite the charactor and a great friend. I miss him.
I love ferrets. Only three left and they are getting old now.

Ex has them now. I am now owned by a cat.

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