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“IMAGINE no religion!”

Since: Feb 09

usa

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#422100
Nov 23, 2012
 
Kaitlin the Wolf Witch wrote:
<quoted text>
Hi!
What kind of puppy?
it's a shedagle.

sheltie/dalmation/beagle.

he was heading to the pound if not adopted. he was such a cute lil (and i me lil) fella. we had been talking about getting my son a black or chocolate lab.

but i just couldn't let this lil guy go to the pound. so i brought him home and put him in my son's arms and they have been inseprable since.

boy has he grown! already as tall and long as our boston terrier. not as chunky tho. and does he have energy!

i can't imagine not having him as part of the family.
karl44

Kamloops, Canada

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#422101
Nov 23, 2012
 

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Resurrectionologist wrote:
<quoted text>
I was not specific enough which is my own fault. Everything that is currently in the Protestant Bible belongs there. Everything that the Laodicean Synod approved, which is currently included, is correct in my own estimation. Everything that is currently in the Protestant Bible that they rejected, should also be included. The later Council of Carthage (along with subsequent councils) have made corrections as needed, and yes I believe that minor mistakes have been made, but none that effect traditional Protestant Christian doctrine. When I was talking about the Laodicean Synod, in my mind I was specifically referring to the canonical gospels of Matthew, Mark, Luke, & John, plus Acts which is a continuation of Luke. So the fault is mine for not being specific.
a cowardly reversal of your previous statements of faith.

your credibility wears thin.

your reliance upon apologetic speaks to your maturity and your education, both lacking.

“Hello Darlings!”

Since: May 10

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#422102
Nov 23, 2012
 

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Tide with Beach wrote:
<quoted text>
That's Mr. Potato.
My friends call me Chip.
Wanna get baked?
For puns like those, you should be scalloped.
karl44

Kamloops, Canada

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#422103
Nov 23, 2012
 
Resurrectionologist wrote:
<quoted text>
I'm not trying to decide what questions you ask me. I wasn't specific enough and the discussion went a direction that was somewhat off the thought process I was discussing, or more accurately, wanting to discuss. I am trying to stay focused on one subject without going down several different rabbit trails.
In response to your statement that apologetics isn't history, I think a lot of it is. There are cosmological arguments which is apologetics, there are ontological arguments which is also apologetics. I also happen to believe that history is a part of the total package of apologetics. So let me ask a simple question.
It is my opinion that a majority of skeptics reject the use of apologetics because they see apologetics as canned responses designed to silence their objections towards accepting Christianity as a worldview. Does this reflect your current opinion of apologetics?
apologetics is the torturing of circumstance towards a path of logic.

and of course most of it is developed to provide answers for the indoctrinated to critique of dogma, and much of that originates with the skeptical. It would seem that you have an alternate apologetic excuse for the existence of christian apology.

“What are you looking at?”

Since: Jan 08

Albuquerque, NM

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#422104
Nov 23, 2012
 
Resurrectionologist wrote:
<quoted text>
It's not a matter of believing men over Jesus. It's a matter of believing the correct material. While the gnostic gospels do paraphrase SOME (emphasis mine) of what Jesus said, they're not consistent with the canonical gospels from the perspective of historical credibility. Simply put, the early church fathers (prior to the Council of Laodicea) were concerned that what was in the Bible was either written by eye-witnesses, or by people who had access to eye-witnesses. The gnostic gospels just don't match up. Both you and I can go through history books about the American Revolution (to use your own example from an earlier post)and write down all the quotes of George Washington, and Marquis de Lafayette, and others, but that's all it would be. If we want to really know what happened at the Battle of Yorktown, we would need to look at letters and battle reports written by participants, or letters written by those who knew the participants and accurately recorded their stories. This is how historical research is conducted.
Regarding the early start of Christianity, it was growing rapidly. Competing movements and groups had to keep up, and the easiest way to do this was to copy some of Christianity's beliefs and merge it with their own. This is where the gnostic gospels originated. That's why the Council of Laodicea rejected the gnostics as heresies. Even the 2nd century Palestinian Jews recognized the heresies of the gnostic writings. They surely considered both Christianity and Gnosticism to be heresies, but the gnostics were treated then about as seriously as we treat the supermarket tabloids today.
So, men decided which beliefs would be heresy and which would not. And you chose to believe those men.

Yes or no?

“Jesus is Love”

Since: Jul 12

Hutchinson, MN

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#422105
Nov 23, 2012
 

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DearthOfCouth wrote:
<quoted text>
This is what Christianity has done for you?
I'll pass. Thanks all the same.
Fine. Then go to Hell where you belong, you stupid ass.

Since: Sep 12

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#422106
Nov 23, 2012
 

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G_O_D wrote:
<quoted text>
Everythign in the New Testament was written long after Jesus was dead.
<face palm>
Have you read the Hebrew TaNaKh ? That is what Jesus taught about.
Okay, I'll ask. Just where do you get the idea that the gospels were written "long after" Jesus was dead? What are you calling long after?
If they were written within 30 years of his death, that's not long enough for legend to creep in. I believe (as you know) that all 4 canonical gospels were written prior to 70 A.D. We've debated the passage in Matthew about the destruction of the Temple and Jerusalem, so we're both beating a dead horse there. Neither of us is willing to budge an inch on that issue. So let's look at something else.

We know Peter and Paul were both executed in Rome in the mid 60s A.D.
There are just too many sources that discuss this. At the end of Acts,(a continuation of Luke) Paul is still alive although in prison in Rome. So if Acts is a continuation of Luke, and the gospel of Luke was based upon Mark (or Matthew as I believe) then that means Mark was written in the mid to late 50s A.D. I think Matthew predates Mark because Matthew was a Jewish tax collector and his gospel was written in Hebrew. If Matthew was literate as most tax collectors were expected to be, then he likely even started taking notes while Jesus was still alive. Of course this is speculation, but on it's own merit, it makes sense.

We do have a fragment of Mark that is believed to date to the last third of the first century. It is being examined by independent papyrology experts. If true, this would prove that the gospels were written at least within 60-70 years of Jesus' death. By historical standards, that's not a long stretch of time.

So again, for those who favor the later dating; why?

“Hello Darlings!”

Since: May 10

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#422107
Nov 23, 2012
 
Kaitlin the Wolf Witch wrote:
<quoted text>
Your jesus never existed, and your buybull's "prophecies" are so vague and ambiguous as to be totally meaningless, yet easily *interpreted* as accurate after any given event. Not only do professional psychics work the same way, they undoubtedly got the idea for their scam from the buybull.
Resurrectionologist wrote:
<quoted text>
I can't take you seriously Kaitlin. Too many historians with much more training
And I don't take your cherry picked sources seriously.

You never did answer my quesiton: what does your god have to gain by punishing people for all eternity in the "lake of fire" for committing the thought crime of disbelief? What is there to be learned?

“What are you looking at?”

Since: Jan 08

Albuquerque, NM

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#422108
Nov 23, 2012
 
Resurrectionologist wrote:
<quoted text>
GoThomas is more of a list of Jesus' teachings. It's like an ancient list of His quotations. I don't disagree with the teachings of Jesus.
I disagree that GoThomas is a descriptive narrative. It isn't.
"I disagree that GoThomas is a descriptive narrative."
- so this is why you think that it is heresy. Not by "God", but men, and because it isn't a descriptive narrative?

So a descriptive narrative had to be a qualifier for the book to be canon?

Citation please.

BTW - can you also post where "God" specifically states that it is heresy?

“The future begins”

Since: Jul 07

every moment

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#422109
Nov 23, 2012
 
Resurrectionologist wrote:
<quoted text>
Paul's letters were to the churches that had already been established by the works of the original disciples.
O-o-o-ka-ay. That is weak on more than one level sooo, I'm going to guess we've entered an area you're not familiar with, or you are familiar with and hoped none of us poor unenlightened skeptics would have discovered.

There's nothing left to say I guess than to suggest that you might want to cool your jets next time you get to feelin' all Perfesser Biblophile.

I'll take a look at John later. It's been a busy day and I need some down time.
Uh, sure, understood.........>wry grin here<

No matter what, you're one of the nicer pious pedants that's dropped in to save us from ourselves so thanks for your time and your forbearance with a bunch of cranky old sinners, and I do wish you

Peace.
HipG

“Jesus is Love”

Since: Jul 12

Hutchinson, MN

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#422110
Nov 23, 2012
 

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AnnieJ wrote:
<quoted text>
I am truly sorry that your day has started out so badly for you. I hope that it improves and that you will be spending your day with family and/or friends. If not...treat yourself to something special...like ICECREAM!!!
In the mean time...
I wish you a Happy Thanksgiving.
My day started off great yesterday....just like every day does. I'm not the one going to Hell.

It's YOU that starts and ends each day in misery and fear.

“Hello Darlings!”

Since: May 10

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#422111
Nov 23, 2012
 
love_spell wrote:
<quoted text>
it's a shedagle.
sheltie/dalmation/beagle.
he was heading to the pound if not adopted. he was such a cute lil (and i me lil) fella. we had been talking about getting my son a black or chocolate lab.
but i just couldn't let this lil guy go to the pound. so i brought him home and put him in my son's arms and they have been inseprable since.
boy has he grown! already as tall and long as our boston terrier. not as chunky tho. and does he have energy!
i can't imagine not having him as part of the family.
Dogs rock!

Ever try to play fetch with a cat?

“Hello Darlings!”

Since: May 10

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#422112
Nov 23, 2012
 
DearthOfCouth wrote:
<quoted text>
This is what Christianity has done for you?
I'll pass. Thanks all the same.
Just Results wrote:
<quoted text>
Fine. Then go to Hell where you belong, you stupid ass.
What part of the buybull is that from, angry hateful christian?

“Hello Darlings!”

Since: May 10

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#422113
Nov 23, 2012
 
Just Results wrote:
<quoted text>
My day started off great yesterday....just like every day does. I'm not the one going to Hell.
It's YOU that starts and ends each day in misery and fear.
Is that why you're so hateful, jesus boy?

“Hello Darlings!”

Since: May 10

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#422114
Nov 23, 2012
 
HipGnosis wrote:
<quoted text>Uh, sure, understood.........>wry grin here<
No matter what, you're one of the nicer pious pedants that's dropped in to save us from ourselves so thanks for your time and your forbearance with a bunch of cranky old sinners, and I do wish you
Peace.
HipG
You seem like a pretty smart and trustworthy guy. So tell me--do you buy into this historicized myth? If so, why? Why should *I* buy into it?

Since: Sep 12

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#422115
Nov 23, 2012
 

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Kaitlin the Wolf Witch wrote:
KittenKoder wrote:
<quoted text>
What makes it more hilarious is that they can't even agree with what they make up so often there are cyber-fights about one tiny difference all the time.
<quoted text>
"Minor details"--I love it!
Here's some "minor details" for you:
Witness # 1: "Resurrectionologist is a murderer! He killed his next-door neighbor after arguing religious doctrine by breaking into his house late one night, and shot him as he lay in bed."
Witness # 2: "I agree; Resurrectionologist killed his neighbor after fighting over his neighbor's dog crapping on his lawn all the time! So Resurrectionologist got his gun, broke into his neighbor's house one afternoon and shot him in his living room while he was watching "The Price is Right."
Witness # 3: "Resurrectionologist killed his neighbor one morning after he found out he was sleeping with his wife, and ran him down in the middle of the street with his Humvee!"
Witness # 4: "Resurrectionologist is a murderer! He loaned a chainsaw to his neighbor, it was never returned, and when the neighbor complained Resurrectionologist burned down his house, with his neighbor inside."
The "minor details" are not important; what's important is that these four "first-hand eyewitnesses" all agree in their testimonies that Resurrectionologist killed his neighbor.
Resurrectionologist is guilty; the "minor details" don't have any effect on core truths. He might wish they did, but they don't
Good imagination, but a pure straw-man fallacy. In your analogy you're using the modern criminal procedure template in which the standard is beyond a reasonable doubt. With regard to history, the criteria aren't that high. It would be unreasonable and ridiculous to even attempt to hold history to such a high standard. I should know. I conduct historical research part time for a local historical society. Whether secular or religious, all reliable history must adhere to basic criteria. Now I'm sure you have some Biblical text in mind that you want to apply this analogy to. So what is it?

“I Am No One Else”

Since: Apr 12

Seattle

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#422116
Nov 23, 2012
 
Kaitlin the Wolf Witch wrote:
<quoted text>
Dogs rock!
Ever try to play fetch with a cat?
I have, but I got in trouble for cutting off the guys arm to throw.

Also got in trouble for taking the tiger out for a walk without a leash.

Since: Sep 12

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#422117
Nov 23, 2012
 

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Kaitlin the Wolf Witch wrote:
Kaitlin the Wolf Witch wrote:
<quoted text>
Your jesus never existed, and your buybull's "prophecies" are so vague and ambiguous as to be totally meaningless, yet easily *interpreted* as accurate after any given event. Not only do professional psychics work the same way, they undoubtedly got the idea for their scam from the buybull.
<quoted text>
And I don't take your cherry picked sources seriously.
You never did answer my quesiton: what does your god have to gain by punishing people for all eternity in the "lake of fire" for committing the thought crime of disbelief? What is there to be learned?
I have answered you a few times. I'll answer again. Would you like me to e-mail it to you to make sure you get it?

I do not believe that God punishes people in the way that you're thinking. I believe that hell does exist, but not as a lake of fire that people physically burn in. I believe hell is a state of eternal consciousness separate from light and love and joy. Hell as I understand it is a place of darkness, loneliness, and regret, in which our spirit languishes forever. It is not for the "crime of disbelief" as you say. The punishment is our own upon ourselves.

What does God gain? God gains no joy by not allowing us into Heaven. What He does gain are His creations who are willing to abide in peace and love with Him.

“Live Love Laugh”

Since: Aug 07

Rings of Saturn Emporium

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#422118
Nov 23, 2012
 

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AnnieJ wrote:
<quoted text>
I have offended more than one Christian when I ask them to explain the scripture that they posted...what it means to them in their own words and how it affects their lives. One even accused me of trying to control him and how he posts to me.
Anyone can post scripture...I can read that for myself...I want to know...how that scripture plays a role in their daily lives. It must be a tough question because I seldom get a reply! LOL
Same here, Annie. If you can't tell me in your own words what something means, I have to assume you don't understand it.*shrug*

“BE BRAVE ENOUGH ”

Since: Oct 09

TO STEP IN MUD PUDDLES

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#422119
Nov 23, 2012
 
Resurrectionologist wrote:
<quoted text>
*
This is what gives meaning to my life.
Res...if it gives meaning to your life then you have found the path that you should follow. For others though...they find not meaning but have found it in other places.

I do not mind admitting that there is much in scripture that I apply to my own life. Some of my favorite reading comes from that book whether is is inspired by God or not.


Not that it's absolutely and literally true as printed in black and white,(literalism) but that the conclusions reached by the consensus of scholars who have devoted their lives to the study of this subject are more plausible than all other competitive hypotheses and objections.
*
Consensus of scholars???

While I admire the dedication of some to study and research my faith is not derived from someone elses opinions or knowledge. My faith comes purely from within.

I don't know...I think that I can learn more from watching the sun hit the snow topped mountains or the rain drops falling on a mud puddle....watching a child play under a down spout.

I am not trying to disrespect your knowledge nor that of anyone elses...it just plays no role in my beliefs...what I have faith in. I am much more impressed by someone who just lives their faith...simply and honestly...even when I do not agree with the path that they followed.

I know...I am strange...and I am okay with that.

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