Why I’m no longer a Christian

Since: Sep 12

Location hidden

#422106 Nov 23, 2012
G_O_D wrote:
<quoted text>
Everythign in the New Testament was written long after Jesus was dead.
<face palm>
Have you read the Hebrew TaNaKh ? That is what Jesus taught about.
Okay, I'll ask. Just where do you get the idea that the gospels were written "long after" Jesus was dead? What are you calling long after?
If they were written within 30 years of his death, that's not long enough for legend to creep in. I believe (as you know) that all 4 canonical gospels were written prior to 70 A.D. We've debated the passage in Matthew about the destruction of the Temple and Jerusalem, so we're both beating a dead horse there. Neither of us is willing to budge an inch on that issue. So let's look at something else.

We know Peter and Paul were both executed in Rome in the mid 60s A.D.
There are just too many sources that discuss this. At the end of Acts,(a continuation of Luke) Paul is still alive although in prison in Rome. So if Acts is a continuation of Luke, and the gospel of Luke was based upon Mark (or Matthew as I believe) then that means Mark was written in the mid to late 50s A.D. I think Matthew predates Mark because Matthew was a Jewish tax collector and his gospel was written in Hebrew. If Matthew was literate as most tax collectors were expected to be, then he likely even started taking notes while Jesus was still alive. Of course this is speculation, but on it's own merit, it makes sense.

We do have a fragment of Mark that is believed to date to the last third of the first century. It is being examined by independent papyrology experts. If true, this would prove that the gospels were written at least within 60-70 years of Jesus' death. By historical standards, that's not a long stretch of time.

So again, for those who favor the later dating; why?

“How You Treat Me”

Since: May 10

Determines How I Treat You

#422107 Nov 23, 2012
Kaitlin the Wolf Witch wrote:
<quoted text>
Your jesus never existed, and your buybull's "prophecies" are so vague and ambiguous as to be totally meaningless, yet easily *interpreted* as accurate after any given event. Not only do professional psychics work the same way, they undoubtedly got the idea for their scam from the buybull.
Resurrectionologist wrote:
<quoted text>
I can't take you seriously Kaitlin. Too many historians with much more training
And I don't take your cherry picked sources seriously.

You never did answer my quesiton: what does your god have to gain by punishing people for all eternity in the "lake of fire" for committing the thought crime of disbelief? What is there to be learned?

“What are you looking at?”

Since: Jan 08

Albuquerque, NM

#422108 Nov 23, 2012
Resurrectionologist wrote:
<quoted text>
GoThomas is more of a list of Jesus' teachings. It's like an ancient list of His quotations. I don't disagree with the teachings of Jesus.
I disagree that GoThomas is a descriptive narrative. It isn't.
"I disagree that GoThomas is a descriptive narrative."
- so this is why you think that it is heresy. Not by "God", but men, and because it isn't a descriptive narrative?

So a descriptive narrative had to be a qualifier for the book to be canon?

Citation please.

BTW - can you also post where "God" specifically states that it is heresy?

“The future begins”

Since: Jul 07

every moment

#422109 Nov 23, 2012
Resurrectionologist wrote:
<quoted text>
Paul's letters were to the churches that had already been established by the works of the original disciples.
O-o-o-ka-ay. That is weak on more than one level sooo, I'm going to guess we've entered an area you're not familiar with, or you are familiar with and hoped none of us poor unenlightened skeptics would have discovered.

There's nothing left to say I guess than to suggest that you might want to cool your jets next time you get to feelin' all Perfesser Biblophile.

I'll take a look at John later. It's been a busy day and I need some down time.
Uh, sure, understood.........>wry grin here<

No matter what, you're one of the nicer pious pedants that's dropped in to save us from ourselves so thanks for your time and your forbearance with a bunch of cranky old sinners, and I do wish you

Peace.
HipG

“Jesus is Love”

Since: Jul 12

Hutchinson, MN

#422110 Nov 23, 2012
AnnieJ wrote:
<quoted text>
I am truly sorry that your day has started out so badly for you. I hope that it improves and that you will be spending your day with family and/or friends. If not...treat yourself to something special...like ICECREAM!!!
In the mean time...
I wish you a Happy Thanksgiving.
My day started off great yesterday....just like every day does. I'm not the one going to Hell.

It's YOU that starts and ends each day in misery and fear.

“How You Treat Me”

Since: May 10

Determines How I Treat You

#422111 Nov 23, 2012
love_spell wrote:
<quoted text>
it's a shedagle.
sheltie/dalmation/beagle.
he was heading to the pound if not adopted. he was such a cute lil (and i me lil) fella. we had been talking about getting my son a black or chocolate lab.
but i just couldn't let this lil guy go to the pound. so i brought him home and put him in my son's arms and they have been inseprable since.
boy has he grown! already as tall and long as our boston terrier. not as chunky tho. and does he have energy!
i can't imagine not having him as part of the family.
Dogs rock!

Ever try to play fetch with a cat?

“How You Treat Me”

Since: May 10

Determines How I Treat You

#422112 Nov 23, 2012
DearthOfCouth wrote:
<quoted text>
This is what Christianity has done for you?
I'll pass. Thanks all the same.
Just Results wrote:
<quoted text>
Fine. Then go to Hell where you belong, you stupid ass.
What part of the buybull is that from, angry hateful christian?

“How You Treat Me”

Since: May 10

Determines How I Treat You

#422113 Nov 23, 2012
Just Results wrote:
<quoted text>
My day started off great yesterday....just like every day does. I'm not the one going to Hell.
It's YOU that starts and ends each day in misery and fear.
Is that why you're so hateful, jesus boy?

“How You Treat Me”

Since: May 10

Determines How I Treat You

#422114 Nov 23, 2012
HipGnosis wrote:
<quoted text>Uh, sure, understood.........>wry grin here<
No matter what, you're one of the nicer pious pedants that's dropped in to save us from ourselves so thanks for your time and your forbearance with a bunch of cranky old sinners, and I do wish you
Peace.
HipG
You seem like a pretty smart and trustworthy guy. So tell me--do you buy into this historicized myth? If so, why? Why should *I* buy into it?

Since: Sep 12

Location hidden

#422115 Nov 23, 2012
Kaitlin the Wolf Witch wrote:
KittenKoder wrote:
<quoted text>
What makes it more hilarious is that they can't even agree with what they make up so often there are cyber-fights about one tiny difference all the time.
<quoted text>
"Minor details"--I love it!
Here's some "minor details" for you:
Witness # 1: "Resurrectionologist is a murderer! He killed his next-door neighbor after arguing religious doctrine by breaking into his house late one night, and shot him as he lay in bed."
Witness # 2: "I agree; Resurrectionologist killed his neighbor after fighting over his neighbor's dog crapping on his lawn all the time! So Resurrectionologist got his gun, broke into his neighbor's house one afternoon and shot him in his living room while he was watching "The Price is Right."
Witness # 3: "Resurrectionologist killed his neighbor one morning after he found out he was sleeping with his wife, and ran him down in the middle of the street with his Humvee!"
Witness # 4: "Resurrectionologist is a murderer! He loaned a chainsaw to his neighbor, it was never returned, and when the neighbor complained Resurrectionologist burned down his house, with his neighbor inside."
The "minor details" are not important; what's important is that these four "first-hand eyewitnesses" all agree in their testimonies that Resurrectionologist killed his neighbor.
Resurrectionologist is guilty; the "minor details" don't have any effect on core truths. He might wish they did, but they don't
Good imagination, but a pure straw-man fallacy. In your analogy you're using the modern criminal procedure template in which the standard is beyond a reasonable doubt. With regard to history, the criteria aren't that high. It would be unreasonable and ridiculous to even attempt to hold history to such a high standard. I should know. I conduct historical research part time for a local historical society. Whether secular or religious, all reliable history must adhere to basic criteria. Now I'm sure you have some Biblical text in mind that you want to apply this analogy to. So what is it?

“I Am No One Else”

Since: Apr 12

Seattle

#422116 Nov 23, 2012
Kaitlin the Wolf Witch wrote:
<quoted text>
Dogs rock!
Ever try to play fetch with a cat?
I have, but I got in trouble for cutting off the guys arm to throw.

Also got in trouble for taking the tiger out for a walk without a leash.

Since: Sep 12

Location hidden

#422117 Nov 23, 2012
Kaitlin the Wolf Witch wrote:
Kaitlin the Wolf Witch wrote:
<quoted text>
Your jesus never existed, and your buybull's "prophecies" are so vague and ambiguous as to be totally meaningless, yet easily *interpreted* as accurate after any given event. Not only do professional psychics work the same way, they undoubtedly got the idea for their scam from the buybull.
<quoted text>
And I don't take your cherry picked sources seriously.
You never did answer my quesiton: what does your god have to gain by punishing people for all eternity in the "lake of fire" for committing the thought crime of disbelief? What is there to be learned?
I have answered you a few times. I'll answer again. Would you like me to e-mail it to you to make sure you get it?

I do not believe that God punishes people in the way that you're thinking. I believe that hell does exist, but not as a lake of fire that people physically burn in. I believe hell is a state of eternal consciousness separate from light and love and joy. Hell as I understand it is a place of darkness, loneliness, and regret, in which our spirit languishes forever. It is not for the "crime of disbelief" as you say. The punishment is our own upon ourselves.

What does God gain? God gains no joy by not allowing us into Heaven. What He does gain are His creations who are willing to abide in peace and love with Him.

“Live Love Laugh”

Since: Aug 07

Rings of Saturn Emporium

#422118 Nov 23, 2012
AnnieJ wrote:
<quoted text>
I have offended more than one Christian when I ask them to explain the scripture that they posted...what it means to them in their own words and how it affects their lives. One even accused me of trying to control him and how he posts to me.
Anyone can post scripture...I can read that for myself...I want to know...how that scripture plays a role in their daily lives. It must be a tough question because I seldom get a reply! LOL
Same here, Annie. If you can't tell me in your own words what something means, I have to assume you don't understand it.*shrug*

“BE BRAVE ENOUGH ”

Since: Oct 09

TO STEP IN MUD PUDDLES

#422119 Nov 23, 2012
Resurrectionologist wrote:
<quoted text>
*
This is what gives meaning to my life.
Res...if it gives meaning to your life then you have found the path that you should follow. For others though...they find not meaning but have found it in other places.

I do not mind admitting that there is much in scripture that I apply to my own life. Some of my favorite reading comes from that book whether is is inspired by God or not.


Not that it's absolutely and literally true as printed in black and white,(literalism) but that the conclusions reached by the consensus of scholars who have devoted their lives to the study of this subject are more plausible than all other competitive hypotheses and objections.
*
Consensus of scholars???

While I admire the dedication of some to study and research my faith is not derived from someone elses opinions or knowledge. My faith comes purely from within.

I don't know...I think that I can learn more from watching the sun hit the snow topped mountains or the rain drops falling on a mud puddle....watching a child play under a down spout.

I am not trying to disrespect your knowledge nor that of anyone elses...it just plays no role in my beliefs...what I have faith in. I am much more impressed by someone who just lives their faith...simply and honestly...even when I do not agree with the path that they followed.

I know...I am strange...and I am okay with that.

“Live Love Laugh”

Since: Aug 07

Rings of Saturn Emporium

#422120 Nov 23, 2012
Disgusted wrote:
For those who saw the Ridley Scott movie 'Prometheus' this summer, here's an interesting take on the movie by a fellow 'nymed Cavalorn. It's a bit of a stretch and makes a fair share of assumptions but it's an interesting read nonetheless.(Spoilers abound in this article, FYI). In the article the author connects the movie to the Christ myth in a fascinating way.
http://cavalorn.livejournal.com/584135.html
Hello Nymph!
hello, hello! Missed ya.

“Live Love Laugh”

Since: Aug 07

Rings of Saturn Emporium

#422121 Nov 23, 2012
love_spell wrote:
<quoted text>
i think you most of all had the most to be thankful for!!!!!!!!!!
I sure feel that way.

Since: May 11

Reality, USA

#422122 Nov 23, 2012
Just Results wrote:
<quoted text>
My day started off great yesterday....just like every day does. I'm not the one going to Hell.
It's YOU that starts and ends each day in misery and fear.
You are correct, no one is going to "hell". It is amusing how you and others still keep the fear alive...using the same tactics as have been used for centuries although now many look at the likes of you and laugh.

“BE BRAVE ENOUGH ”

Since: Oct 09

TO STEP IN MUD PUDDLES

#422123 Nov 23, 2012
love_spell wrote:
<quoted text>
wow! a son on thanksgiving! that's is definitely something to be happy about!
yes it is less expensive to eat out! after the gingerbread fest, we ate at cracker barrel [also did some shopping!] their thanksgiving dinner was 8.99
you got turkey or ham and three sides. extra sides were 1.25 and then your choice of pie. free cornbread and biscuits.
Yes...it was and still is something to be grateful for. Every year we celebrate his birthday on Thanksgiving. Last night we had his favorite dessert. On his actual birthday I am taking him out for sushi...I am not thrilled about that but that is what he picked.

I love love love Cracker Barrel...I almost always order their breakfast regardless of what time of day it is. I found the copy kat recipe for their hash brown casserole that I am going to try to make one day. It is my favorite!

“Live Love Laugh”

Since: Aug 07

Rings of Saturn Emporium

#422124 Nov 23, 2012
Resurrectionologist wrote:
<quoted text>
In response to your statement that I'm making it all up as I go along, don't I have the right to clarify my original intended argument? People misspeak all the time, and then back up to clarify. That's just intelligent conversation. It's expected that people will make mistakes in what they say. I'm not claiming perfection here. I wasn't specific enough, and now I'm correcting that. Are you saying that I can't or shouldn't now that you think you have me on the ropes? Sorry, but this is an open discussion. We all have the right to clarify our original intent.
Paul's letters weren't about detailing Jesus' miracles. Oral tradition of the time was already doing that. Paul wouldn't need to.
Paul's letters were instructions to the various early churches to unify them in a time when disunity would crush the growth of the church.
I am of the opinion that Matthew wrote his gospel first, and in Hebrew because he was a Jewish tax collector. I am also of the opinion that all 4 gospels plus Acts were written prior to the 70 A.D. destruction of Jerusalem. I have already gone into the reasons why I believe this. There are other reasons that I didn't go into, that I could, but will save for now. Do you want me to go over this again at a later date?
How could John be anti-Semitic in light of the fact that he was also a Jew? If anything, John was taking shots at the leaders who turned Jesus over to the Romans for execution. His comments wouldn't have been directed at ALL Jews.
You might want to think about who set up the churches to whom Paul wrote and then tell us why he never mentions anything...nothing...nada...ab out Jesus.

Paul teaches in direct opposition to Jesus in many places. I have heard all the apologetics that make it all better for those who wish to gloss over this fact. It doesn't change the fact that he puts himself at least on a level with Jesus, and at some points, even higher than Jesus.

“BE BRAVE ENOUGH ”

Since: Oct 09

TO STEP IN MUD PUDDLES

#422125 Nov 23, 2012
Just Results wrote:
<quoted text>
My day started off great yesterday....just like every day does. I'm not the one going to Hell.
It's YOU that starts and ends each day in misery and fear.
Thank you for sharing your faith with me. Always nice to see someone...living their faith.

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