“IMAGINE no religion!”

Since: Feb 09

usa

#421961 Nov 23, 2012
water_nymph wrote:
<quoted text>.......
I doubt seriously he would stand in front of love_spell's husband and ask her about her pubic hair......
hubby says THANKS FOR THE LAUGH!

“YO BOO”

Since: Sep 07

land of BOO

#421962 Nov 23, 2012
non believers are some sad peeps

“Live Love Laugh”

Since: Aug 07

Rings of Saturn Emporium

#421963 Nov 23, 2012
lightbeamrider wrote:
<quoted text> Your missing the point, as usual. God left the Jews with no functioning Temple for over 1900 years after Christ was crucified. Certain conditions had to be met. Haggai lived long enough for the second Temple to be constructed and witnessed the disappointment of the people when compared to the glory of Solomon's temple which was destroyed.''The latter glory of this house (2nd Temple) will be greater than the former says the Lord of hosts...'' Haggai 2:9.
<quoted text> That is the whole point. It was fully destroyed as there has been no been no functioning priesthood with animal sacrifice, post Christ. In what ways is the latter glory of the second temple greater than the first if not Christ? There is also timeline. There are Rabinnic traditions which put the Messiah's coming around two thousand years ago. Rashi, foremost Jewish commentator on the Tanakh put the date on more than 1750 years ago based on a mistake. When the mistake is corrected then you are in the middle of the first century.
Rewriting the Bible to suit you doesn't change what it says. But go right ahead.
There are no Rabinnic traditions which put the Messiah's coming around 2000 years ago. That's pure apologetics and no Jew would ever, EVER interpret it that way. They wrote the book, they get to do the interpretations. Period.

“Live Love Laugh”

Since: Aug 07

Rings of Saturn Emporium

#421964 Nov 23, 2012
love_spell wrote:
<quoted text>
hubby says THANKS FOR THE LAUGH!
I'm always glad to give someone a smile or a laugh.

“IMAGINE no religion!”

Since: Feb 09

usa

#421965 Nov 23, 2012
Sambrotherofnephi wrote:
<quoted text>
Nope, here is a sample invitation I have used: Hi, we are looking for people who are seeking to make changes in their life that will bring them closer to Jesus Christ and make them happier. Are you one of these people?
If "no," then you leave them alone. If "yes," you teach them principles of the gospel and invite them to act on those principles and see if they like the results. If they like the results you invite them to do more. If they want to stop, then that's their choice.
most so-called christians [especially on topix] don't understand the THANKS, BUT NO THANKS that you say you do.

excuse me if i am a bit skeptical.

hope you had a wonderful thanksgiving with family and friends.

“Live Love Laugh”

Since: Aug 07

Rings of Saturn Emporium

#421966 Nov 23, 2012
love_spell wrote:
<quoted text>
most so-called christians [especially on topix] don't understand the THANKS, BUT NO THANKS that you say you do.
excuse me if i am a bit skeptical.
hope you had a wonderful thanksgiving with family and friends.
How many have come here saying they just want to learn what we think and then never ask? How many have come here to be our 'teachers' and prove they know less by far about their Bible than do those who left Christianity? How many come here just to be nasty and stay on as dozens of socks?

I have not seen but one person come here and leave when she was told 'no thank you'. Kudos to her.

Since: Sep 12

Location hidden

#421967 Nov 23, 2012
macumazahn wrote:
<quoted text>Ah, so the thing's hyperbole, and not literally true.
Okay, I'll bite: where does the literal stop and the imagery begin?
It could be hyperbole. But remember, hyperbole is only a communication tool meant to emphasize a particular point. It was a very common method of teaching in antiquity. If Jesus was employing hyperbole in regard to the destruction of the 2nd temple, it was to describe ruthlessness on the part of the Romans.

However, regarding this specific passage, it appears that the prophecy wasn't hyperbolic because the platform on which the temple sat was not considered part of the temple. It was an extension of the hill that was called the Temple Mount. Everything sitting on that platform was demolished. This is consistent with what is known about Roman vengeance on rebellious territories.

I trust that your question regarding literalism and hyperbole is a serious question and not a satirical swipe for your own amusement. If you're sincere, then here is my own personal answer. Attempts to discern the difference between Biblical hyperbole and literalism are severely hampered by our own Western ethnocentrism. To make a fair determination, we must first stop assuming that our own way of thinking and reasoning is superior to those of an ancient culture. This doesn't mean we have to stop thinking altogether as that would just be absurd. Knowing history, knowing languages, knowing cultural differences, and willingness to shed our own "here-and-now" presuppositions are all important if we wish to make a fair and accurate determination. In short, be open-minded without being gullible. Be willing to follow the evidence wherever it takes you even if it brings about emotional or intellectual discomfort. We need not think like the ancient cultures thought, but we must be aware of how they thought, and not get locked into the battle of comparing our culture with theirs. This is how I was able to escape the trap of my agnosticism.

“IMAGINE no religion!”

Since: Feb 09

usa

#421968 Nov 23, 2012
water_nymph wrote:
Okay, folks. Time for family to roll in.
To each and every one of you on this thread:
Happy Thanksgiving.
Gobble till you wobble.
hope you had a wonderful turkey day!

“BE BRAVE ENOUGH ”

Since: Oct 09

TO STEP IN MUD PUDDLES

#421969 Nov 23, 2012
T-Town Clown wrote:
<quoted text>thats disgusting
Is that what your faith has lead you to believe? Showing love to your neighbor is disgusting?

“BE BRAVE ENOUGH ”

Since: Oct 09

TO STEP IN MUD PUDDLES

#421970 Nov 23, 2012
T-Town Clown wrote:
non believers are some sad peeps
Yes...there are sad times in our lives just as there is in a believer's life. The one thing that we have going for us (non-believers) is that we are not sitting around waiting to die or predicting dooms day every time something "sad" happens. We work our way through it and look forward to the next day and keep on going.

BTW The term non-believer is erroneous...we all believe in something...just not all of us believe as you do.

“IMAGINE no religion!”

Since: Feb 09

usa

#421971 Nov 23, 2012
Resurrectionologist wrote:
<quoted text>
.......I'm taking a few days off.
I've found another forum that needs some correcting. Now I know how NYC firefighters feel. Put out one fire, and go put out another one.
.......
i mostly ignore your posts. you are a childish idiot and argueing with a childish idiot is like talking to a brick wall. only the brick wall has more intelligent things to say, than you.....

my vision of you is a child who stomps their foot and gives raspberries when an adult won't give into their demands.......

however to compare your delusional rantings to those of a NYC firefighter has got to be the biggest delusion of yours yet!!!!!!!

mainly because the fires these brave heros fight..........ARE REAL!!!!!!!!!!

“IMAGINE no religion!”

Since: Feb 09

usa

#421972 Nov 23, 2012
Kaitlin the Wolf Witch wrote:
Before I go any further...
People, please. I understand tomorrow is Thanksgiving, and I understand you will be wanting to share some of your dinner with your four-footed family members. If you must, make cetain that you give them *meat,* and not *skin* from your holiday birds; the skin is as bad for them as it is for us. And please, please, please, PLEASE wrap those bones securely and take them straight out to the trash so dogs and cats cannot get at them. Let's all try to avoid Thanksgiving night veterinary emergencies, okay? Think ahead, and protect your pets.
Besides, you really don't want to spend your night in veterinary clinics and paying that extra emergency fee, do you?
^5!!!!!!!!!

wonderful post.

we don't feed our dogs table scraps.

did i tell you we got a new puppy in sept?

“IMAGINE no religion!”

Since: Feb 09

usa

#421973 Nov 23, 2012
LIes Busters wrote:
<quoted text> HA, so what a loser, you are working on Thanksgiving. What a loser life,.......
lots of people work on holidays. like police, fire, EMTs, nurses, doctors, ambulance drivers, those who work in nursing homes, those who man suicide hotlines, the list goes on and on.

all those people working so others can be safe, while fundie christurds stuff their faces.

guess you think all those are losers too huh.

if this is what your religion teaches you, then keep the hate filled religion.

“H-o-o-o-o-o-o-ld on thar!”

Since: Sep 08

The Borderland of Sol

#421974 Nov 23, 2012
water_nymph wrote:
<quoted text>When speaking of all gnostic gospels on Wednesday, you said you rejected them because they did not meet the criteria of the Laodicean Council.
The Laodicean Council approved:
III and IV Kings
I and II Esdras
It banned:
Romans
What Bible do you have that contains III and IV Kings and does NOT contain Romans?
According to the criteria you set for believing or not in the Gnostic Gospels, ie the Laodicean Council, you must have a Bible that goes by the same rules you set for the exclusion of all the Gnostic gospels.
You asked me to wait until today to remind you, and I did so. So now lets get down to business and you tell me which Bible you're using.
I saw where he said that.

And thought, "Poor lil' fella. He don't know her vewy well, do he?"

ROFL

“H-o-o-o-o-o-o-ld on thar!”

Since: Sep 08

The Borderland of Sol

#421975 Nov 23, 2012
love_spell wrote:
<quoted text>
((((((hugs)))))
oops should i ask mac first **wink**
Nihil obstat.

“IMAGINE no religion!”

Since: Feb 09

usa

#421976 Nov 23, 2012
AnnieJ wrote:
<quoted text>
"Poor saps"??? Some of those "poor saps" need the extra pay...others volunteer to work so that others can be at home with family. Then there are those that have no choice to work for fear of losing their jobs. No matter what the reason I am always grateful to those that give up their holiday...just in case I need something from the store or if for some reason I decide to eat out on a holiday.
Most people do not have a choice as to when they work...you should be grateful that you are not one of those "poor saps" that has no choice. Our lives are better because of those in the service industry...yours included since you might stop and get one of those "poor saps" to serve you your dinner.
^5

i remember working many a holidays in the ER. back in the early 90s when my ex and i divorced, i found it alot easier for us to take the boys and go out to a resturant and eat thanksgiving meal. rather than trying to cook all that food and then clean up after. i usually worked the third shift the day before or the second shift that day.

now days we do the turkey, ham and non meat items and friends and family bring the side dishes and desserts. tho i do make my boys favorite desserts.

hope your turkey day was all you wanted it to be!

Since: Sep 12

Location hidden

#421977 Nov 23, 2012
water_nymph wrote:
<quoted text>When speaking of all gnostic gospels on Wednesday, you said you rejected them because they did not meet the criteria of the Laodicean Council.
The Laodicean Council approved:
III and IV Kings
I and II Esdras
It banned:
Romans
What Bible do you have that contains III and IV Kings and does NOT contain Romans?
According to the criteria you set for believing or not in the Gnostic Gospels, ie the Laodicean Council, you must have a Bible that goes by the same rules you set for the exclusion of all the Gnostic gospels.
You asked me to wait until today to remind you, and I did so. So now lets get down to business and you tell me which Bible you're using.
1 & 2 Kings were renamed to 1 & 2 Samuel. 3 & 4 Kings were renamed to 1 & 2 Kings. So 3 & 4 Kings are still in the Bible. This is just a matter of name changes. 1 & 2 Esdra were changed to Ezra and Nehemiah. It doesn't change the content at all, and so it doesn't compromise the integrity of the Laodicean Canon. Neither the Catholic nor the Protestant Churches accept 3 & 4 Esdras which are also sometimes mistakenly referred to as 1 & 2 Esdras.

Now let's move on to the debate about Romans. This, I agree is a subject of intense debate in the early church. It is without a doubt the longest of Paul's epistles. I am not sure why the Synod of Laodicea rejected it. I have researched this subject for quite some time and still don't have an answer that is satisfactory. This doesn't mean that it doesn't belong there. It just means that I am undecided about how and why it was rejected at one time in church history, but added later. It is one of my favorite NT books. The same goes for the book of Revelations.

I'm not going to sit here and just spout apologetic rhetoric just for the sake of having an answer. If I don't know something, or furthermore, if I am not convinced of it's truth, I'm not going to sit here and say any differently.

“H-o-o-o-o-o-o-ld on thar!”

Since: Sep 08

The Borderland of Sol

#421978 Nov 23, 2012
Resurrectionologist wrote:
<quoted text>
It could be hyperbole. But remember, hyperbole is only a communication tool meant to emphasize a particular point. It was a very common method of teaching in antiquity. If Jesus was employing hyperbole in regard to the destruction of the 2nd temple, it was to describe ruthlessness on the part of the Romans.
However, regarding this specific passage, it appears that the prophecy wasn't hyperbolic because the platform on which the temple sat was not considered part of the temple. It was an extension of the hill that was called the Temple Mount. Everything sitting on that platform was demolished. This is consistent with what is known about Roman vengeance on rebellious territories.
I trust that your question regarding literalism and hyperbole is a serious question and not a satirical swipe for your own amusement. If you're sincere, then here is my own personal answer. Attempts to discern the difference between Biblical hyperbole and literalism are severely hampered by our own Western ethnocentrism. To make a fair determination, we must first stop assuming that our own way of thinking and reasoning is superior to those of an ancient culture. This doesn't mean we have to stop thinking altogether as that would just be absurd. Knowing history, knowing languages, knowing cultural differences, and willingness to shed our own "here-and-now" presuppositions are all important if we wish to make a fair and accurate determination. In short, be open-minded without being gullible. Be willing to follow the evidence wherever it takes you even if it brings about emotional or intellectual discomfort. We need not think like the ancient cultures thought, but we must be aware of how they thought, and not get locked into the battle of comparing our culture with theirs. This is how I was able to escape the trap of my agnosticism.
Treating that as a serious answer: it still seems to boil down to "where it's inaccurate, it's symbolism".
You can't honestly point to an obvious false statement and declare "Well, since it's false, it's obviously symbolic" - that's cheating. Truth of the matter is, if it's false it's false.
And I'm quite certain that the ancients knew the difference between "true" and "false" - I've spent enough time reading classical literature.

And I will follow an evidence trail doggedly, wherever it leads, and form my opinions accordingly. It's just that, to put it mildly, said evidence does not support your position.

Since: Sep 12

Location hidden

#421979 Nov 23, 2012
love_spell wrote:
<quoted text>
i mostly ignore your posts. you are a childish idiot and argueing with a childish idiot is like talking to a brick wall. only the brick wall has more intelligent things to say, than you.....
my vision of you is a child who stomps their foot and gives raspberries when an adult won't give into their demands.......
however to compare your delusional rantings to those of a NYC firefighter has got to be the biggest delusion of yours yet!!!!!!!
mainly because the fires these brave heros fight..........ARE REAL!!!!!!!!!!
I know all about fires. Until I was injured as a young man, I was a professional firefighter in a much smaller city than NYC. But that's not the point. The point of that post was to say that I am constantly correcting mistakes that the skeptical raise as objections. My knowledge of world history, church history, languages, and trips to foreign lands and historical sites have provided me with a vast amount of knowledge that trumps what most laypeople know. It does not make me superior to them, but my experiences and my education do provide me with formidable skills with which to defend my own personal faith. It is not my goal to silence you or any other critic. It is my goal to cause you to ask more questions. Not so I can prove what I know, because there is certainly much more to be learned, but so that those who truly seek correct answers may find them. To that end, I am succeeding. If I come across as a "know-it-all," it's only because I have provided you with knowledge that disarms your presuppositions.

“IMAGINE no religion!”

Since: Feb 09

usa

#421981 Nov 23, 2012
water_nymph wrote:
<quoted text>How many have come here saying they just want to learn what we think and then never ask? How many have come here to be our 'teachers' and prove they know less by far about their Bible than do those who left Christianity? How many come here just to be nasty and stay on as dozens of socks?
I have not seen but one person come here and leave when she was told 'no thank you'. Kudos to her.
exactly!!!!!!!!!

fort wayne, in history center has a gingerbread fest every year. we make it an event and take past and present clients and children to this event.

one local christian school entered 12 scenes from the bible [crafted in gingerbread].

of course our group wasn't the only group there as it was senior day, so alot of nursing home groups were there.

our group came to the bible scenes. the first was the creation and some of our group were puzzled, until i started pointing out the symbols.

the second was the garden of eden [which i got because of the animal crackers used].

the third one was the parting of the red sea and they used taffy to make the red sea.

at this point i somehow became the tour guide for these scenes. and not only our group was clustered around. the fourth one really had alot of them puzzled. it was the ten commandments. one student had used rice krispie treats to craft the "golden calf" and it did look alot like a reindeer. until i pointed out the tablets and moses.

then there was jonah in the belly of the whale. i had to point out that the gummy bear in the middle was jonah.

then they had a manager scene which most got! then there was one that i got almost right away but most were clueless until i explained in detail....... mark 4:35-41 so many confused it with jesus walking on water.

as all these people are standing around listening to me explain these scenes, i am thinking........and i am the atheist, and know right off what all these scenes are!

btw a kindergratener had an entry no one got either, so i had to explain it was SPONGEBOB SQUAREPANTS who lives in pineapple under the sea..........he used gingerbread to make the pineapple!

personally it was one of my favorites. along with the RV made out of gingerbread! and NOTRE DAME!

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