Why I’m no longer a Christian
Henry

Bad Langensalza, Germany

#420954 Nov 18, 2012
water_nymph wrote:
<quoted text> I said no such thing. I said I found it unacceptable that anyone would think that substitutional atonement would be acceptable. I have never done anything in my life that deserves a death sentence, much less someone else dying for what I've done.
You evidently are good with someone dying for whatever you've done in life. That makes you irresponsible, not me.
Had it actually happened, and if I had any way to do so, then I would rescind it. However, it didn't happen so I don't have to worry about it.
Isn't it about time for you to go to church and torture some poor human being that you think has a demon in them?
Demons are all so occupied they are so busy they have no time for an additional demon! So sorry!
duststorm

Seabrook, TX

#420955 Nov 18, 2012
Hip: You asked, "Where, for instance, does Jesus "lay waste the mountains and hills
and dry up all their vegetation;
I will turn rivers into islands
and dry up the pools?"

Hip, you will be around during the 7 years of tribulation, and if you make it through, and believe on the Lord during those 7 years, afterwards you can tell us all about how it went down when we see you in heaven.
Henry

Bad Langensalza, Germany

#420956 Nov 18, 2012
duststorm wrote:
<quoted text>And Dietrich Bonhoeffer??
Well Bonhoeffer is not god either! So sorry!

Since: Sep 12

Location hidden

#420957 Nov 18, 2012
HipGnosis wrote:
<quoted text>How? By the very transference Christians ascribe to their Christ character. Difference being, for Isaiah these were poetic metaphors, most often describing an idealized nation of Israel, but also describing various individuals, from Jehoiachin to Cyrus the Great to Isaiah himself. Conversely, Christianity folded them into their legend and fashioned the details to make it a literal representation of their character's suffering.
The Servant Songs span the Chapters 42 thru 53. Christians focus primarily on 53, with selected bits from the rest. Virtually no Christian is apprised of the fact that they go together. As far as a Christian is concerned they are quotable snippets, the rest of the material is for all practical purposes, merely filler. Where, for instance, does Jesus "lay waste the mountains and hills
and dry up all their vegetation;
I will turn rivers into islands
and dry up the pools?"
We don't see this anywhere in Messianic descriptions of the Christ, yet there it is in the first Song, right next to the "bruised reed" passage that Christians do claim. Christianity hyper-selected dramatic bits from Isaiah, and totally disregard the rest. This is strong proof that the Christ legend is a construct, a fabrication, sifting thru Hebrew scripture to find details that might be melded into the legend.
The Jewish interpretation of Isaiah is totally different. They had preconditioned thinking. The context was that of national identity. That's why they didn't recognize Jesus as the Christ. They were looking for a revolutionary figure at the national level, and not a personal messiah at the spiritual level. Breaking through that presupposition was and is a daunting task. Jesus is not a legendary fabrication as a person. The trouble with the Jesus issue is rooted in the conflict between national political identity, and personal spiritual identity. I've met a few Jews who have recognized the difference, and now concede that the leading Jewish philosophers and rabbis in Jesus' time had it all wrong. They had preconceived ideas that they couldn't let go of. God's redemptive movement wasn't just for the nation of Israel. It was for mankind, but would work through Israel. Why do you think Jesus didn't choose any religious leaders as his disciples? He knew they already had presuppositions they would never let go of. He chose 12 blue-collar fishermen who had no classical training, and very little presupposition bias to tear down. This is why James and Paul didn't believe that Jesus was the Messiah until He appeared to them in the flesh.
Henry

Bad Langensalza, Germany

#420958 Nov 18, 2012
KittenKoder wrote:
<quoted text>
Now you're making excuses.
Well excuses are always a good thing!

Since: Sep 12

Location hidden

#420959 Nov 18, 2012
lightbeamrider wrote:
<quoted text> These people were working class 1st century Jews or non Jews who converted.
<quoted text> It would help if you reference the specific verse
<quoted text> And you just hyper-selected above. <quoted text> Done by fishermen? On the one hand the early Jewish converts are dismissed as illiterate and working class and on the other they construct a grand scheme to inject Jesus into the Isaiah narrative. You did not answer one question put forth. What is the interpretation of Isaiah 53 if it refers to Israel and not an individual. All one has to do is read Isaiah 53 and inject Israel where appropiate.
For example, look at Isaiah 53:8 ''He [Israel] was cut off from the land of the living for the transgression of My people."
If Israel was cut off then who is my people?
How is the grave of Israel assigned with wicked men?
With a rich man in His death?
Do no violence?
No deceit in His mouth? This refers to Israel and not Jesus?
Isaiah 53 is about 1 man. It addresses what will happen to God's greatest messenger.
duststorm

Seabrook, TX

#420960 Nov 18, 2012
Xyzhoturutsmail wrote:
<quoted text>You're kidding, right. Well, at least you lumped Annie, Hip and Grace with your, the biggest sinner and evil tard on Topix, so they fit with you. Do you really not see the evil that comes from you in all your posts? I mean really???? Wow.
Discerner, how's it going? Are you still not believing that there is an eternal, everlasting place of fire, torment, the worm that never dieth, the lake of fire?
Henry

Bad Langensalza, Germany

#420961 Nov 18, 2012
water_nymph wrote:
<quoted text> 'remnants of the filth'. Wow. No words to even communicate how I feel about that statement.
Is this what you have to do to make yourself feel that you are not a remnant of the filth?
So glad you are not a remnant of that filth! Is that not wonderful!!

Since: Jun 12

Location hidden

#420962 Nov 18, 2012
Isaiah 49:5-6
And now the Lord says-He who formed me in the womb to be His servant to bring Jacob back to Him and gather Israel back to Himself.

(the one formed in the womb is obviously an individual, If it is Israel who is formed in the womb then who is Jacob and who is Israel who is gathered back?)

For i am honored in the eyes of the Lord and my God has been my strength-He says:''It is too small a thing for you to be my servant to restore the tribes of Jacob and bring back those of Israel i have kept. I will also make you a light for the Gentiles, that you may bring salvation to the ends of the Earth.''

Obviously an individual restores the tribe of Jacob abd brings back Israel.
duststorm

Seabrook, TX

#420963 Nov 18, 2012
water_nymph wrote:
<quoted text> Yes, Discerner, I'm old. I hope you live to be old. I hope you get to enjoy children, grandchildren and great-grandchildren. I hope you enjoy health and prosperity for a long, long time and have people you love and who love you around you till you're a hundred.
Your constant attempts to make age something unacceptable since you showed up on Topix makes you look bad, not me.
I will try to learn as long as I live. Only those who think they have all the answers are fools. No one has all the answers. Yet every single one of you fundies are deathly afraid to question anything, just in case. You are so afraid of death that you can't live life to it's fullest. That's a shame, but nothing I can do anything about.
Ever learning, and never coming to a knowledge of the truth.
The end result of being old is that one is closer to the final exit, death, than one has ever been during his lifetime.
Just because someone is old does not mean that a 20-yr.-old will not precede him out of this world.
Age is a warning, much like the leaves turning in the fall. It is a harbinger of death, when the leaf falls off the tree and is covered by the snow and rain of winter.
In a way, it is a merciful sign from the Lord that one should put his affairs in order, both spiritual and temporal.
duststorm

Seabrook, TX

#420964 Nov 18, 2012
Henry wrote:
<quoted text>
Well Bonhoeffer is not god either! So sorry!
He is your compatriot, and you would do well to discover why he was willing to lay his own life on the line for a belief!
Henry

Bad Langensalza, Germany

#420965 Nov 18, 2012
duststorm wrote:
<quoted text>
Who is your mentor or Bible teacher? You are off the rails.
Well what a pity thar is. Perhaps the "Bible teacher" was too occupied with other people! So try an own study! Will you?
duststorm

Seabrook, TX

#420966 Nov 18, 2012
Hip, you said, "God convinced me it was a tribal fairy tale. God led me the entire way out of the dark, dank sanctuary and into the air and light. Thank you Lord."

Hip, God is not the author of confusion. He would not rescind his Word and now say that it is a tribal fairy tale.
No, that is your mind being receptive to the wiles of Satan. You are no match for Satan. He has you in his clutches and he is counting on having you in hell with him forever.
duststorm

Seabrook, TX

#420967 Nov 18, 2012
Tony17 wrote:
The flood of Noah was NOT worldwide.
Tony17, you are off the rails.
duststorm

Seabrook, TX

#420968 Nov 18, 2012
HipGnosis wrote:
<quoted text>THERE are the fruits of Christianity fr a disturbing number of societal misfits. This is what matters most to them, to imagine retribution, pain, and suffering for their fellow man. One can't help but wonder who kicked their ass, and why, and more importantly, why they stopped.
We do not imagine or conjure or wish or hope retribution for our fellow man.
We take it as the gospel that there will be a retribution for these poor souls.
We take seriously the words of the hymn, "Rescue the perishing, care for the dying".
After the age of 20, the human is dying every day. The body is slowly following its inexorable path to the grave.
Without divine intervention, the soul arrives naturally at the gates of hell and enters in.
duststorm

Seabrook, TX

#420969 Nov 18, 2012
Henry wrote:
<quoted text>
Well what a pity thar is. Perhaps the "Bible teacher" was too occupied with other people! So try an own study! Will you?
I would suggest the Book of John, and then the Book of Romans. You actually don't have to "study" them. Just read them. It will be self-evident.

“SPEBSQSA”

Since: Aug 08

Maryland

#420970 Nov 18, 2012
Just Results wrote:
<quoted text>
Ahteists are remnants and descendents of that filth. God has given them a chance though this time to correct their errors but they still resist. That is why they will be tortured and burned in Hell.
It's amazing how a person with a strong will to sin and be defiant just can't break that tendency.
What a "loving" god-being you follow...sheeeesh.

“I Am No One Else”

Since: Apr 12

Seattle

#420971 Nov 18, 2012
duststorm wrote:
<quoted text>
We do not imagine or conjure or wish or hope retribution for our fellow man.
We take it as the gospel that there will be a retribution for these poor souls.
We take seriously the words of the hymn, "Rescue the perishing, care for the dying".
After the age of 20, the human is dying every day. The body is slowly following its inexorable path to the grave.
Without divine intervention, the soul arrives naturally at the gates of hell and enters in.
You have to hope or wish for something in order to believe it. So stop lying.

“SPEBSQSA”

Since: Aug 08

Maryland

#420972 Nov 18, 2012
Just Results wrote:
<quoted text>
Yes it was.
<quoted text>
They existed worldwide. That is why the whole world was flooded.
<quoted text>
That's not true either. The Ark landed on top of one of the most highest of mountains. The whole world would have had to be flooded to raise the ark that high. Do you not realize how much water is in the ocean and how it could be delivered by God to flood the land worldwide. THINK HARDER!.
<quoted text>
Can't be any worse than all the Republicans having to take care of all the worthless liberals in America.
Christer fight!!!
Popcorn and other munchies are optional.
Sit back...here we go...
duststorm

Seabrook, TX

#420973 Nov 18, 2012
Henry wrote:
<quoted text>
Forget the phony bible. It is full of lies and so on!
The Bible is inspired by God. Holy men of old wrote under the inspiration of the Holy Spirit. It is useful for correction, for reproof, for instruction in righteousness, that the man of God may grow up into the likeness of Christ.

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