Why I’m no longer a Christian
duststorm

Seabrook, TX

#420933 Nov 18, 2012
HipGnosis wrote:
<quoted text>The rationalization continues. Make up whatever you need to explain to yourself why we don't believe in your delusions. It's ok, I don't mind. It's a necessary mental health technique for those who live in unreality and are rattled when others cast doubts. Do what you must.
I'm not rattled. Why should I be rattled, when he set my feet on the solid rock? The doubts of others have no bearing on my standing with God, which is that I am one of his, a member of the family of God, one of the redeemed. That is an irrefutable fact. I'm a child of the king, looking out of the castle at the poor paupers, bereft of God, naked and dying in their unbelief.
You are correct when you say that I can't understand why you don't believe my "delusions". I guess it is because you have named the gospel, God' word, as a set of "delusions", and that is why you do not believe. You would be mentally unbalanced to believe in delusion or delusions, that much is true. I do not consider you mentally unbalanced or prone to believing in delusions. I certainly wouldn't expect you to suddenly begin to believe in delusions.

Since: Jun 12

Location hidden

#420934 Nov 18, 2012
water_nymph wrote:
<quoted text>Actually, it's referring to Israel. So if you misinterpret the first verse of Isaiah 53, then you are off for the rest of it.
Yes. i understand the argument and i asked several specific questions with verses attached as it relates to Isaiah 53. If Isaiah 53 refers to the nation of Israel then how does Israel
1) Willingly offer itself as a guilt offering?(animal sacrifice involves death of the animal) Isaiah 53:10.

2) Isaiah 53:8 "...He [Israel] was cut off from the land of the living for the transgression of My people, to whom the stroke was due."
If Israel was cut off then who is 'My people'?

3) How does Israel 'justisfy the many' and 'bear their iniquities'? Isaiah 53:11.

4) How does Israel,'pour Himself to death'?'Numbered with transgressors, bear the sins of many, intercede for transgressors'? Isaiah 53:12.

5) How is Israel,'Like a lamb that is lead to slaughter? Like a sheep that is silent before it's shearers? Isaiah 53:7

These are specific questions that relate to specific verses. The parallels to Jesus are obvious. It can only refer to Israel through Jesus who is descendent of David who was also a servant of God.

“Live Love Laugh”

Since: Aug 07

Rings of Saturn Emporium

#420935 Nov 18, 2012
Just Results wrote:
<quoted text>
Water Nymph has been written off as spiritual filth. I'm afraid she hates herself too much to be a Christian.
Another religigasm. And on your holy day at that.

You are free to fantasize anything you like about me. I only ask that you do not masturbate while doing so. That would just be icky.

“Live Love Laugh”

Since: Aug 07

Rings of Saturn Emporium

#420936 Nov 18, 2012
KittenKoder wrote:
<quoted text>
Now you're making excuses.
Are you surprised by this?
duststorm

Seabrook, TX

#420938 Nov 18, 2012
Just Results wrote:
<quoted text>
Water Nymph has been written off as spiritual filth. I'm afraid she hates herself too much to be a Christian.
Who is your mentor or Bible teacher? You are off the rails.
duststorm

Seabrook, TX

#420939 Nov 18, 2012
water_nymph wrote:
<quoted text>But I'm not a licensed psychiatrist. Now what?
You're just looking for something to go all holy roller on, aren't you?
Nope. I would then suggest that you integrate your advice and life experience wisdom into the form of country western songs and submit them to Nashville.

“Live Love Laugh”

Since: Aug 07

Rings of Saturn Emporium

#420940 Nov 18, 2012
duststorm wrote:
<quoted text>Nope. I would then suggest that you integrate your advice and life experience wisdom into the form of country western songs and submit them to Nashville.
I'd rather not, thank you. How about some new age music? Hahaha.

“Live Love Laugh”

Since: Aug 07

Rings of Saturn Emporium

#420941 Nov 18, 2012
lightbeamrider wrote:
<quoted text> Yes. i understand the argument and i asked several specific questions with verses attached as it relates to Isaiah 53. If Isaiah 53 refers to the nation of Israel then how does Israel
1) Willingly offer itself as a guilt offering?(animal sacrifice involves death of the animal) Isaiah 53:10.
2) Isaiah 53:8 "...He [Israel] was cut off from the land of the living for the transgression of My people, to whom the stroke was due."
If Israel was cut off then who is 'My people'?
3) How does Israel 'justisfy the many' and 'bear their iniquities'? Isaiah 53:11.
4) How does Israel,'pour Himself to death'?'Numbered with transgressors, bear the sins of many, intercede for transgressors'? Isaiah 53:12.
5) How is Israel,'Like a lamb that is lead to slaughter? Like a sheep that is silent before it's shearers? Isaiah 53:7
These are specific questions that relate to specific verses. The parallels to Jesus are obvious. It can only refer to Israel through Jesus who is descendent of David who was also a servant of God.
I will answer these questions as soon as resurrectionist comes back and answers my first question to him/her.

“I Am No One Else”

Since: Apr 12

Seattle

#420942 Nov 18, 2012
water_nymph wrote:
<quoted text> Are you surprised by this?
No, just hoping they stop lying and making lame excuses. One can dream.
Henry

Bad Langensalza, Germany

#420943 Nov 18, 2012
duststorm wrote:
<quoted text>
Seek Logic. Above all seek Logic with all your heart. For there you shall find the way, the truth, and the light. Jesus is the logos, logic of which you speak. Gospel of John, Chapter 1
The bible has of course ancestors. Propagandist found those scriptures capable to continue with all the lies!
duststorm

Seabrook, TX

#420944 Nov 18, 2012
water_nymph wrote:
<quoted text> I said no such thing. I said I found it unacceptable that anyone would think that substitutional atonement would be acceptable. I have never done anything in my life that deserves a death sentence, much less someone else dying for what I've done.
You filched a pencil in the fourth grade, and that alone makes you deserving of a death sentence. You didn't give back the incorrect change at the grocery store, you drove 5 miles over the limit, you had bad thoughts about your colleagues. Worst of all, you are in outright rebellion against God, and his plan to send his only begotten son to die for you. That makes you deserving of a death sentence to the lake of fire for all eternity.
Henry

Bad Langensalza, Germany

#420945 Nov 18, 2012
Mr Wiggley wrote:
<quoted text>
Some people, like myself, already understand what you say and realize that each metaphor, idiom, symbolism, or figure of speech can be interpreted by anyone differently. Hence, the multitude of religions and the 38,000+ cults of christianity alone.
Those many divisions represent weakness not strength. Those divisions reek of falseness and misrepresentation.
It leaves one to only seek Logic which qualifies all bible stories as only stories...nothing more.
Maybe the bible is a book full of fairy tales but fakes, errors and of cours any multitudes of lies. Why not switch to science? Life is only very short!
Henry

Bad Langensalza, Germany

#420946 Nov 18, 2012
Just Results wrote:
<quoted text>
It's not uncommon for you to forget that you are going to Hell for being an anti-Christian.
Worse, I am an atheist! Certainly I would be extremely surprised about such rubbish like hell.

“SPEBSQSA”

Since: Aug 08

Maryland

#420947 Nov 18, 2012
water_nymph wrote:
<quoted text> Having people in your life is what makes life worthwhile. You can have all the money and material things available and still you are lacking.
However, Christians make a point of being there for you because they want to draw you in. It's a double-edged sword.
Whatever keeps you from being alone and works for you, do it.
I'm not trying to keep you from being a Christian. I'm trying to give you information about Christianity. But you're afraid of it. I understand.
You are on a roll girl...go go go!!!
Haha, good point.

Since: Jun 12

Location hidden

#420948 Nov 18, 2012
HipGnosis wrote:
<quoted text>How? By the very transference Christians ascribe to their Christ character. Difference being, for Isaiah these were poetic metaphors, most often describing an idealized nation of Israel, but also describing various individuals, from Jehoiachin to Cyrus the Great to Isaiah himself. Conversely, Christianity folded them into their legend and fashioned the details to make it a literal representation of their character's suffering.
These people were working class 1st century Jews or non Jews who converted.
The Servant Songs span the Chapters 42 thru 53. Christians focus primarily on 53, with selected bits from the rest. Virtually no Christian is apprised of the fact that they go together. As far as a Christian is concerned they are quotable snippets, the rest of the material is for all practical purposes, merely filler. Where, for instance, does Jesus "lay waste the mountains and hills
and dry up all their vegetation;
I will turn rivers into islands
and dry up the pools?"
It would help if you reference the specific verse
We don't see this anywhere in Messianic descriptions of the Christ, yet there it is in the first Song, right next to the "bruised reed" passage that Christians do claim. Christianity hyper-selected dramatic bits from Isaiah, and totally disregard the rest.
And you just hyper-selected above.
This is strong proof that the Christ legend is a construct, a fabrication, sifting thru Hebrew scripture to find details that might be melded into the legend.
Done by fishermen? On the one hand the early Jewish converts are dismissed as illiterate and working class and on the other they construct a grand scheme to inject Jesus into the Isaiah narrative. You did not answer one question put forth. What is the interpretation of Isaiah 53 if it refers to Israel and not an individual. All one has to do is read Isaiah 53 and inject Israel where appropiate.

For example, look at Isaiah 53:8 ''He [Israel] was cut off from the land of the living for the transgression of My people."

If Israel was cut off then who is my people?
How is the grave of Israel assigned with wicked men?
With a rich man in His death?
Do no violence?
No deceit in His mouth? This refers to Israel and not Jesus?
duststorm

Seabrook, TX

#420949 Nov 18, 2012
HipGnosis wrote:
<quoted text>
You people are big on assumptions, so let me say a-g-a-i-n, I have no problem with the idea that Jesus was a real person. HipG
1. Was this Jesus born in Bethlehem?
2. Was there an astronomical wonder, a huge bright star at his birth?
3. Did a throng of wise men fill up Bethlehem to see him?
4. Did they bring gold for a king, myrrh for his dead body, and incense?
5. Did Herod order all the children slaughtered in the area of his birth?
6. Was his mother of the line of David?
7. Did he heal a man born blind and teach on the Mount of Olives?
8. Was he teaching the Jewish scholars in the temple at the age of 12?
9. Did he have 12 followers?
10. Did he have a triumphal entry into Jerusalem?
11. Was he crucified on a Roman cross for saying he was the king of the Jews?

“YO BOO”

Since: Sep 07

land of BOO

#420950 Nov 18, 2012
Mr Wiggley wrote:
<quoted text>
You are on a roll girl...go go go!!!
Haha, good point.
Yo Wiggles, will #2 pull it out today?
duststorm

Seabrook, TX

#420951 Nov 18, 2012
Henry wrote:
<quoted text>
Maybe the bible is a book full of fairy tales but fakes, errors and of cours any multitudes of lies. Why not switch to science? Life is only very short!
Life is short, hell is hot, and Jesus is coming soon.
duststorm

Seabrook, TX

#420952 Nov 18, 2012
Henry wrote:
<quoted text>
Worse, I am an atheist! Certainly I would be extremely surprised about such rubbish like hell.
Surprised? That is putting it mildly. You will be astonished, awed, terrified, horrified, and screaming as you fall into the abyss.

“SPEBSQSA”

Since: Aug 08

Maryland

#420953 Nov 18, 2012
Resurrectionologist wrote:
<quoted text>
Words aren't used the same now that they were in antiquity. There really is a translation process. If you're going to try to understand the words written 2000+ years ago, you have to go beyond just the words that appear on the page. If you read the words in just a "black/white" format, that is "textual criticism" which is based upon what we see on the page. There are many points to consider.
1- What were the customs of that culture at that particular time in history?
2- What were the expectations of that culture?
3- Was information transmitted via oral register or literary register?
4- How can we understand information presented in a different manner with a different mindset in a different culture?
If you don't consider these points, then none of it will make any sense. This is what we mean by reading it "in context." If you attempt to literally interpret ancient scripture written in an oral tradition register, by comparing it to our own modern literary register, you're not going to understand it.
So what makes your intrepretation of those ancient meanings of word or phrases the correct one??
Thanks in advance.

Tell me when this thread is updated:

Subscribe Now Add to my Tracker

Add your comments below

Characters left: 4000

Please note by submitting this form you acknowledge that you have read the Terms of Service and the comment you are posting is in compliance with such terms. Be polite. Inappropriate posts may be removed by the moderator. Send us your feedback.

Top Stories Discussions

Title Updated Last By Comments
News Roman Catholic church only true church, says Va... (Jul '07) 4 min Michael 649,830
The Christian Atheist debate (Jun '15) 8 min ATHEOI 56,049
Poll Was 9/11 a conspiracy?? (Oct '07) 56 min onemale 281,473
Prove there's a god. (Mar '08) 3 hr Ooogah Boogah 972,385
American Soldiers - Duty, Honor, Country (Jun '11) 4 hr Ricky F 39,053
ye olde village pub (Jun '07) 5 hr Flower-Child 53,840
how long after taking the Vivitrol shot can i f... (Nov '12) 5 hr Danielle 171
Moms having sex with their sons (Aug '12) Fri Noname 69
More from around the web