Why I’m no longer a Christian

“"None shall pass"”

Since: Jul 11

There

#418054 Nov 5, 2012
water_nymph wrote:
<quoted text>.... There are just things people don't have any reason to know.....
That is called "something to hide".

Thank you for proving my point.

“H-o-o-o-o-o-o-ld on thar!”

Since: Sep 08

The Borderland of Sol

#418055 Nov 5, 2012
water_nymph wrote:
Okay, it's late and I have to go curl up with my book. Everyone have a good night and sleep well.
G'night!

“SPEBSQSA”

Since: Aug 08

Maryland

#418056 Nov 6, 2012
Just Results wrote:
<quoted text>
You are a filthy imbecile full of hatred, which you learned from your atheism. And your mother was probably generalizing humanity based on your pitiful worthless life.
If I were your parent, you would have the shit beat out of you even now, even if you are 40, 50, 60 years old. I'd be so embarrassed to have been the DNA donor to shit like you.
There's that nasty violent hateful christer nature we all know so well.

Since: Jan 11

Location hidden

#418057 Nov 6, 2012
Mr Wiggley wrote:
<quoted text>
There's that nasty violent hateful christer nature we all know so well.
There are Christians, and then there are Christians.

OYE was a Christian.

And I miss her.

Much.

“Live Love Laugh”

Since: Aug 07

Rings of Saturn Emporium

#418058 Nov 6, 2012
G_O_D wrote:
<quoted text>
That is called "something to hide".
Thank you for proving my point.
Whatever, G.

“Live Love Laugh”

Since: Aug 07

Rings of Saturn Emporium

#418059 Nov 6, 2012
Saint Augustine wrote:
<quoted text>
There are Christians, and then there are Christians.
OYE was a Christian.
And I miss her.
Much.
Yep.

Since: Jun 12

Location hidden

#418060 Nov 6, 2012
Huh wrote:
No, the difference between you and me is I do not make claims that are not based on evidence.
Start here.
http://www.youtube.com/watch/...
You continually claim that I have no objective basis for morality.
As do you here.
If a god does not exist, an objectively provable existence of objective morality does not exist, and an objective need for objective morality to exist does not exist.
Will try to find time to get to the rest of your points later. As it is, i have to work. It is election day. More like prohibition day since liquor is not sold in many places today. I assume you are interested in the truth of the matter at some level. So it is worth your time to watch carefully the debate referenced above. You will probably not find it convincing but it may take on meaning later in your life.

Since: May 11

Reality, USA

#418061 Nov 6, 2012
Just Results wrote:
<quoted text>
There was nothing wrong with the Sermon on the Mount. It just pinpoints and PROVES Who is going to have the authority to throw your evil carcass into Hell and you don't like that.
That is the only problem you have with it.
LOL...you said "Hell" as if it is a real place...LOL.

And no "proof" has been given...it is your belief, not a proven fact. Very different.

Since: Oct 07

Location hidden

#418062 Nov 6, 2012
karl44 wrote:
<quoted text>
you should attend an anti-pornography group hosted by christians.
the sweaty palms, the bated breath, the grey hair, the air electric with sexual tension.
Isn't there are junior anti-sex league? I'm disappointed!

Since: Oct 07

Location hidden

#418063 Nov 6, 2012
Resurrectionologist wrote:
<quoted text>
I think you're missing my point.
I do not believe that hell is as described in 'Dante's Inferno.' I think the way that Christians and skeptics alike have interpreted hell or the concept of eternal damnation is grossly mistaken.
We are given one chance (comprised of our own adult lifetime-however long that may be) to recognize the truth of God's existence, and love for us. I don't think we are sent to a fire-pit hell, or any weird and terrible place where demons run around with pitch-forks. I think we cause ourselves to be ejected from the presence of God by the choices we make. If you don't want to believe in God, or accept Jesus, that's your choice. I just believe that you will retain a sense of consciousness after your body dies, and you will be hyper-aware of eternal darkness and separation from love and joy.
Separation from God is hell.
Humans interpret everything. Every-thing.... All of life is a huge mishmash of symbols until it's interpreted by the human mind. Your interpretation is not any more valid than anyone elses.

What does make an interpretation more valid than another is if it can be observed in nature, and not someone's opinion over something supernatural or mythical.

hick-up

“squuuze me”

Since: Feb 09

Florida, USA

#418064 Nov 6, 2012
water_nymph wrote:
<quoted text> I beg to differ. They are good people.
The thing is, good people turn out to be good Christians. A'hole people turn out to be A'hole Christians. I just happen to be lucky enough to have family members of the first sort.
I chose friends of the second sort.
Good people will take the good from religion and make themselves better. A'hole people will take the worst of it and make bigger a'holes of themselves. People don't change their basic character because of religion. Religion does not change anyone's character. You either change it yourself because you have found a reason to, or you stay the same and refuse to see what a jackass you're making of yourself.
There are truly good people who go under the title of Christian. There are truly bad people who do the same. It's the person...not the religion.
Having said that, some of the worst people in the world seem to be attracted to the promises of forgiveness and heaven for anyone made by Christianity. They become convinced that everyone is evil and without religion they will be tortured forever.
My children have never been threatened with this nonsense. Therefore, they had no reason to join up after they were grown, but grew up with loving parents who didn't use God as a punishment. They were brought up to be responsible human beings first. They were brought up with compassion for others less fortunate. They were brought up in a family that took in foster children. Later in life I asked them if they resented that we did that. They all said that at some point they did, but were glad now that we did it because they had a wonderful experience for the most part and learned a lot from it.
So I don't think Christianity makes the person. I think the person makes Christianity...good or bad...what it is.
Unfortunately, I have seen more of the bad side lately than the good. When I hear some politicians today, I cringe. On the rare occasion that I hear a preacher on tv today, I cringe. Christianity sure has taken a turn for the worse since I was a young person. I was taught what I was supposed to do. Now preachers preach anything but what Christians are supposed to do, unless it concerns damning others. It's truly sad.
Your recent post's leave me in a state of mellow awe. You exhibit much positive growth in the short time I've known you W_N. You appear to of found something that looks good on you.
Well done ...

But have you learned to tie a Bimini knot yet?
Knowledge

United States

#418065 Nov 6, 2012
water_nymph wrote:
<quoted text>Why did you spend your life with reprobate human beings? Each person chooses a career. Some are humane...like vet assistants. Some are positions chosen by those hungry for power over other human beings..like working in a prison as an authority figure. You figure out which is the most loving and giving.
While officers are needed in prison, people who take care of animals almost always have more compassion and understanding than prison guards. It's just that simple. And you prove it to be true by remarks like the one above.
I went in thinking I could change the world to be good....It didn't happen...Actually I was well liked, and known to treat the inmates fairly. They hated to see me go. They all knew, I didn't mess with them, but if I gave them a ticket or if they went to segregation, they would say, it was well deserved. I had big problems with people who would bully another for their dinner plates (gangs) I removed those who would cause problems and who did not follow the rules in my housing units. My heart went out to the visitors, I hated working the visiting room. I would see inmates with their wives and families, watched them cry for their loved one. Then the next day I would see some of those inmates with another woman, and would be planning to marry them when they got out. I had to keep my mouth shut, confidentiality . I don't regret my time that I spent ...I helped many people overcome being suicidal, and depressed. For those who really tried to make themselves change, I know that I had a small part, in helping them. But only 20% would want to change and not come back. I don't regret my life for one moment, even when I was in some dangerous situations. God always had my back, and for that I am thankful, and have no regrets. Many officers have been assaulted, raped, murdered for just being in the wrong place and the wrong time. Many times they were a good officer that was quiet and caused no problems...There are just some people who are truly evil and only wants the taste of killing. Someone has to work with these people, it takes an officer whom some say is mean, but they have to be consistent, and follow the rules to be fair. You are right, there are some officers who enjoy being mean to others as in any type of work place, hospitals, nursing homes, mental hospitals, there will always be those who takes advantage of someone who can not take care of themselves.
Knowledge

United States

#418067 Nov 6, 2012
Kaitlin the Wolf Witch wrote:
<quoted text>
"Knowledge" shared an imaginary little story with us of her days as the "only female guard in an all-male prison." She claims that she saw for herself when some inmate's chest spontaneously combusted from within in the shape of a crucifix. I laughed so hard I nearly wet myself; and whenever I bring up that stupid story, she says, "I see you remember it; God's truth bothers you, doesn't it?"
She is too fucking stupid to realize when she's being ridiculed.
You had to lie about that.......I NEVER said I was the ONLY female officer, ever. There goes your story...I never used the words "spontaneously combusted" you lied again. You really like to "elaborate" a story ...but you are a witch who is a known liar, enough said. If I get time later, and if I am in the mood, I will go back ant try to find it. Be my guest tho, look it up for yourself. I am so glad the story stuck in you tiny "pea" brain of a head. It worries you...LOL You need to be worried. You probably have so many demons in your body there is not enough room for anymore.....:)

Since: Sep 12

Location hidden

#418068 Nov 6, 2012
Kaitlin the Wolf Witch wrote:
<quoted text>
Not just that; it's the mode of punishment. Eternal burning.
What purpose does that serve? It sounds to me like petty revenge. It sounds like this god of yours is a mean little kid with a magnifying glass, burning out anthills and the ants that come running out.
I don't want parables, I want an answer; what does this god of yours have to gain by burning people alive forever simply for not believing in him?
Not one christian has been able or willing to answer this directly; somehow, I don't think anyone ever will.
I think you're looking for a cut and dry answer to a question that isn't as cut and dry as you may think it is, or that you would like it to be. I'll attempt to answer it as directly as possible. You may not like or agree with my reply, but it will be as direct as I can possibly be, with what I honestly believe. I think that's a fair proposition.

First, I don't believe that hell is a literal place of fire. I think the fire is a metaphor for something else. I'm not sure what exactly, but I'm comfortable in admitting that this is speculation on my part.

Second, I think you're confusing a few key points. You asked, what does God gain by burning people alive; right?

God does not burn people alive. People who do go to hell are physically dead. So it's not the same as what you would expect to see if a person was burned here on earth in our current bodily form.

Thirdly, I believe hell exists as a plane of existence. As another dimension. It's something that our minds can't comprehend in our current state of existence. I don't think it's a huge dark cavern with dripping lava and little red demons running around with spears and pitch-forks. I believe that after we die, we retain a sense of consciousness that is separate from the brain. At the moment of bodily death, we either transition to a plane of existence that is comprised of light, love, and over-whelming joy or; we transition to a place where there is darkness, loneliness, and over-whelming guilt. I believe that both of these concepts of existence are very real, but not detectable by our own limited senses in our current state of being. Nor are they comprehended by us in the here and now.

Fourthly, I don't believe humans are sent to hell, but that they choose it for themselves by the way they live, and the thoughts they think. When we physically die, I believe God examines and evaluates that surviving consciousness which I previously spoke of. He sees how we have treated others, and how we have either accepted His son Jesus, or have rejected Him. If a person has died without accepting God, then that person is excluded from entering the presence of Jesus in that atmosphere of love and light. If this is true, then the only other eternal existence left is separation, in an eternal state of that darkness, loneliness, and guilt.

And you're right about sin.

Sin is self-induced nonsense. We do it to ourselves when we fail to love others, and treat others with respect. This is the true sin nature. Love of self over love of God and our fellow man is sin, and is the root cause of all transgressions against our fellow man.

I hope my answer has been direct enough for you. I want you to know that my answers are never short cut and dry pat answers, because if you have the curiosity and the courage to ask the tough questions, then you deserve the best entire answer that I can give you with respect and integrity.
overexaggerated

Reggio Emilia, Italy

#418069 Nov 6, 2012
you are no longer a christian because you were part of a denomination. you will end up back into the Bible, and praying...you just wont be baptist.
DearthOfCouth wrote:
Why I’m no longer a Christian, Part Two
I mentioned my doubts about the value of grace. Let me try to explain:
I learned early on that I, as a rather perceptive and articulate kid, wielded the power of language. I was able to wound someone deeply with a well-timed and chosen, derisive remark. I’m ashamed to say that I flung these about, at an early stage of my life, freely and easily. These thoughtless barbs of mine were the cause of a lot of needless pain. I believe they were the greatest sins of my commission, ever.
I was assured that my sins were forgiven me but I became aware after a time that the targets of my derision, once hurt or offended, remained hurt or offended for a very long time. Jesus’ forgiveness of me, I noted, made no difference at all to the people I had hurt. Things changed for me as I approached adulthood and began to feel genuine empathy for other people. In time I came to feel an element of real remorse for the thoughtlessness of my adolescence, and when I felt these regrets – I still feel them today -- I realized that Jesus’ grace made no real difference to me, either.
Grace was like the presence of God; everyone said it was real. But no matter how I tried, I was not able to feel it myself.
My crisis arrived one day at a church prayer service when the minister asked us all to recall our thoughts and feelings on the day we were saved. Surely we remembered the day vividly. It was the most important day of our lives.
People around me began standing, one at a time, and giving witness. The recurring phrase, as I recall it, was “the weight of mountains off my shoulders.” I sat there in my pew and reflected in private silence over the vague, unfulfilled void I had experienced in the wake of my own baptism, by this time some ten years in the past.
The minister went on to inform us that we, as the committed Christians we were, ought still to enjoy that same exultant, liberated feeling today. Didn’t we?
Again the witnessing from the pews around me, everyone standing in turn to give solemn testimony that they did indeed feel the power of Jesus in their lives, each and every day. It was profound, they said. It was moving. They were touched, one and all, to the very core of their existence and the strength of their inspiration did not dissipate as time elapsed, but rather grew stronger.
It went on this way. I turned this way and that to listen as the faithful on all sides of me rose and gave vivid testimony. The passion of Jesus, apparently, was with everyone in the assembly. Except me.

Since: Sep 12

Location hidden

#418070 Nov 6, 2012
water_nymph wrote:
<quoted text>Why would a god give you one short life (compared to eternity) to believe in him if he doesn't ever show up? Why would he distance himself from you after that one brief period of time for the same reason?
Seems like a very insecure or sadistic God to me.
I think our existence here in this life is sort of like the 90 day probation concept that we see in jobs. The difference being, that we don't really know how long we have. It could be 90 days or 17,520 days.
The point is, once that time is gone, we can't get it back.

As for why he doesn't show himself, I think I know why. Of course I could be wrong, but I'm willing to take a shot at it.

Do you resent it when somebody in authority is constantly looking over your shoulder? I bet most of us do, even if we don't admit it to each other. I know I do.

So if an all-powerful God shows Himself and watches us all the time, where is our incentive to make our own choices? We wouldn't have any free-will because we would feel intimidated into doing what God wants, and not because it's simply the right thing to do.

I tell my kids to clean their room, and then I disappear for an hour. I want them to clean it because they realize it's important to their health and safety. I don't stand there tapping my foot and glaring at them. That only makes them resent the chore. The same principle applies here.

Now some of you will say "Yes but they have seen you, they know you are their parent." This is true. But you don't have to see everything to believe it exists. And you shouldn't believe anything exists on blind faith. You should seek evidence with an open mind. If your mind isn't open to learning new concepts, then it never will.

“Live Love Laugh”

Since: Aug 07

Rings of Saturn Emporium

#418071 Nov 6, 2012
hick-up wrote:
<quoted text>
Your recent post's leave me in a state of mellow awe. You exhibit much positive growth in the short time I've known you W_N. You appear to of found something that looks good on you.
Well done ...
But have you learned to tie a Bimini knot yet?
When I came to topix I was a questioning Christian, still in hopes of finding something that would nail it for me to stay in the religion.

I had the misfortune of seeing how Christians treated not only non-Christians but how they treated other Christians. It was not the defining moment I had hoped for, but was the straw that broke the camel's back.

I left Christianity and then, instead of not studying, I studied more. I came to believe that my choice to leave was the right choice and still do. I learned so much from so many people on Topix who actually knew the Bible and didn't just throw out random verses they thought condemned the person to whom they were posting.

I also went through some anger, some doubt, a lot of remorse, and some fear. Slowly but surely all of those things have gone away and I have seen Christians as people, rather than people who are not to be trusted to give you an answer that suits you. I found that we have to search for our own answers rather than sitting in church listening to someone else's answers. Those answers truly never fit.

Thanks for your kind post.

And no, I have not learned how to tie a Bimini knot. My father made beautiful fishing flies. I tried, but it just didn't work for me. I was a Den Mother for the Boy Scouts for years. One of the things they had to learn one year was tying knots. I tried and tried to learn how to tie them, but most of them came out looking like a 3rd grader's work. So I grabbed my Dad and got him to help. All of the boys in my den got all their badges that year. They surely would not have gotten all of them without the help of my dad and several other people, to whom I will always owe thanks.

But I mastered paper bag kites so well that not only did we make them for every boy in our den, but every kid in our neighborhood! Those were wonderful times!

“What do I know?”

Since: Apr 08

Rings of Saturn Emporium

#418072 Nov 6, 2012
GET wrote:
<quoted text>I totally understand; you experienced well-intended, but misguided attempts at churchianity; well meaning (hopefully), but misguided attempts to get people to deny their innermost doubts and put on a face. When, in reality, doubt is a human problem, not just with Christians. Often churches, or rather, religious minded people can do more harm than good. Christianity, just like any other belief system is a search for truth. An honest search for truth also involves wading through doubts. I was a mess at the age of 17 when I experienced a messy conversion. The idea that all people remember the time and date of their conversion is just not true. I am a history teacher; I did attend seminary due to my interest in theology. Even theology professors admit their doubts. The Christian life is life in the real world with a belief in the ultimate claims in the Scriptures. However, this does not mean we abandon the world and the many fine things in the world. Rather, we see the world as a wonderful, but paradoxically, fallen place, in which we all take part.
Thanks for your thoughtful input.

No one in my congregation ever expressed anything akin to doubt. Everyone, to hear the talk, was dead solid certain, all the time.

But its' something I admit I hadn't considered; shouldn't an all-powerful being have the capacity to make himself so real, to manifest himself so materially -- that he banishes all doubt?

If so, why wouldn't he do this?

“What do I know?”

Since: Apr 08

Rings of Saturn Emporium

#418073 Nov 6, 2012
overexaggerated wrote:
you are no longer a christian because you were part of a denomination. you will end up back into the Bible, and praying...you just wont be baptist.
<quoted text>
Thanks for dropping in.

It hasn't happened yet....
Huh

Dallas, TX

#418075 Nov 6, 2012
lightbeamrider wrote:
<quoted text> Start here.
http://www.youtube.com/watch/...
<quoted text> As do you here. <quoted text> Will try to find time to get to the rest of your points later. As it is, i have to work. It is election day. More like prohibition day since liquor is not sold in many places today. I assume you are interested in the truth of the matter at some level. So it is worth your time to watch carefully the debate referenced above. You will probably not find it convincing but it may take on meaning later in your life.
I've seen that. Presupposition all apologetics are a non-starter. You have to start with the unproven premise of a god, and even more specifically and as a larger failure, your individual pocket god that you have created in your own image. Licona uses the easily debunked Craig method. As there I are no extra-Biblical, contemporaneous accounts of the life and times of a Christ, and as even the existence of the character Paul/Saul is open for debate, it is an even further non-starter.

Tell me when this thread is updated:

Subscribe Now Add to my Tracker

Add your comments below

Characters left: 4000

Please note by submitting this form you acknowledge that you have read the Terms of Service and the comment you are posting is in compliance with such terms. Be polite. Inappropriate posts may be removed by the moderator. Send us your feedback.

Top Stories Discussions

Title Updated Last By Comments
The Christian Atheist debate (Jun '15) 2 min Pinkwater 110,147
Prove there's a god. (Mar '08) 13 min Devil number 666 982,282
God is REAL - Miracles Happen! (Jun '11) 13 min Ancestry manager 6,221
Poll Was 9/11 a conspiracy?? (Oct '07) 1 hr Jolly Roger 286,304
News Hawaiians to Attorney General Sessions: We're n... 1 hr Trump s Birtherex... 10
News Roman Catholic church only true church, says Va... (Jul '07) 2 hr Phooey 675,539
Jehovah's Witnesses are true disciple of Jesus ... (Mar '07) 3 hr True Gods Child 46,191
More from around the web