Was 9/11 a conspiracy??

Created by djhixx on Oct 13, 2007

53,587 votes

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yes

no

well, im not sure

Say the Truth

Lansdale, PA

#251451 Jan 10, 2013
onemale wrote:
I cannot argue with 1500+ architects, engineers, physicists, scientists and other professionals. Most of these have from 20 to 30+ years experience.
All they want is an independent investigation.
That is the KEY here because IF an independent investigation proves them wrong, they would look like idiots. They have to be sure they are 100% correct. If they were proven wrong who would hire them? Their careers would be ruined.
Where are their papers?

“DECEPTION = MOST POWERFUL ”

Since: Jul 11

POLITICAL FORCE ON THE PLANET

#251452 Jan 10, 2013
The NIST Report is not a special case in which logic and rationality do not or should not apply. Given proper resources for investigation, there can be nothing mythical or unexplainable about the collapse of the towers. If the accumulated explanation falls short of making sense, it should give anyone—regardless of ideological leanings—a reason to be suspicious and a cause to look more deeply into what happened that day.
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The official explanation should be a testable theory outlining a sequence of events. It should be able to explain the physical evidence and should not dismiss incongruous empirical data as irrelevant. On this, we can all agree.
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Theoretical Adequacy
It is our contention that the conclusions proffered by the NIST report, if analyzed against data from within the report itself, demonstrate critical inconsistencies. The most obvious of these relates to the temperature at which the structural steel is likely to fail. The NIST report does not take into account the results of their own laboratory-controlled floor truss tests in which the steel reached temperatures in excess of 800º C without failure, as we shall see.
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The fact that the test trusses survived temperatures far beyond the temperature possible in the towers, while heavily loaded, for far longer than either tower stood, should be indication enough that the NIST theory of collapse may be incomplete at best. However, the report authors seem unwilling to account for these disparities despite repeated written requests for redress of this and other pivotal issues.
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[[1] Milgram, S.,“Obedience to Authority: An Experimental View”, 184, Harper Collins,(1974).
[2] Sunder, S.S. et al. NISTNCSTAR1: Final Report of the National Safety Team on the Collapse of the World Trade
Center Towers, http://wtc.nist.gov
Falsifiability & The NIST Report
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Jet Fuel ha ha ha ha ha ah ah ah ha aha ha
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That’s A Good One Huh eh !
Say the Truth

Lansdale, PA

#251453 Jan 10, 2013
Dr_Zorderz wrote:
<quoted text>
Yes that's it!
D dt (Z z(t) 0 &#956;(S)s&#729;(S)dS ) &#8722; g Z z(t) 0 &#956;(S)dS = &#8722; Fc(z, z&#729;)(1) 3 where t = time, z = vertical (Lagrangian) coordinate = distance of the current crushing front from the initial position of the tower top; the superior dots denote time derivatives; &#956;(S)= initial specific mass of tower (mass of a story divided by its height) at point of initial coordinate S; s&#729;(S)= velocity of material point with initial coordinate S. It will suffice to consider the velocity, as well as the momentum density, to be distributed throughout the compacted layer linearly. With these approximations, the crush-down differential equation of motion becomes: d dt ( m0[1 &#8722; (z)] doc zorderz says dt + &#956;cl 2 [2 &#8722; (z)] dz dt ) &#8722; m(z)g = &#8722;Fc(z, z&#729;)(crush-down)(2) while the crush-up differential equation of motion has the same form as Eq. 17 of Bazant and Verdure (2007): m(y)( d dt " [1 &#8722; (y)] dy dt #+ g )= Fc(y, y&#729;)(crush-up)(3) Here Eq.(2) represents a refinement of Eq. 12 of Bazant and Verdure (2007), while Eq.(3) is identical to their Eq. 17 because the compacted layer is stationary during crush-up. Furthermore, l = height of compacted layer B, &#956;c = specific mass of compacted layer B per unit height, which is considered to be constant and equal to the maximum possible density of compacted debris; m(z)= cumulative mass of the tower above level z of the crushing front (m(z)= m0 + &#956;cl); and Fc = resisting force = energy dissipation per unit height; Fc(z, z&#729;)= Fb + Fs + Fa + Fe, Fb = Wd/(1 &#8722; )h (4) where Wd(z)= total energy dissipation up to level z, which was assumed by Bazant and Verdure (2007) to consist only of energy Fb (per unit height) consumed by buckling of steel columns. In calculations, the large fluctuations of Fb as a function of z or y (evident in Figs. 3 and 4 of Ba&#711;zant and Verdure, 2007) are neglected, i.e., Fb is smoothly homogenized. As a refinement of previous analysis, we introduce here a generalization in which we add energy Fs (per unit height) consumed by continuated bifurcation of concrete floor slabs, energy Fa required to expel air from the tower, and energy Fe required to accelerate the mass of dust and larger fragments
Ejected from the tower during the impact of upper part; Furthermore, in contrast to previous studies, the compaction ratio will not be assumed as a constant but will be more accurately calculated as (z)=(1&#8722; out)&#9 56;(z)/&#956;c, and out = mass shedding fraction = fraction of mass that escapes outside tower perimeter before the end of crush-down (not afterwards). Note that Eq.(2) may be rewritten as Plethora of Prolific Paid Professionals Parroting Puppetmaster Program Purporting Prepared Pronouncement of Perfunctorily Planted Plane Pieces and Parts Positively Proven Propaganda Paints a Picture of [m0(1&#8722; )+&#956;c l(1&#8722;0.5 )]z¨&#87 22;mg = &#8722;Fm& #8722;Fc, Fm =[m0(1&#8722; )+&#956; cl(1&#8722;0.5 )]&#729 ; z&#729; = &# 956;¯z& #729;2 (5) where Fm = force required to accelerate to velocity z&#729; the stationary mass accreting at the crushing front, and ¯&#956; = d[m0(1 &#8722; )+ &# 956;cl(1 &#8722; 0.5 )]/dz voila an inside job!
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Jet Fuel ha ha h ahah ah aha ha h
.
That's A Good One Huh eh !
Crush up? LMAO!!
Say the Truth

Lansdale, PA

#251454 Jan 10, 2013
Dr_Zorderz wrote:
Here is a good example of the caliber of work we have come to expect from Dr Bazant as he worked for NIST in their thrilling analysis of the 9/11 collapses. Excluding WTC 7 for which there is no explanation forthcoming.
.
As a refinement of previous analysis, we introduce here a generalization in which we add energy Fs (per unit height) consumed by continuated bifurcation of concrete floor slabs, energy Fa required to expel air from the tower, and energy Fe required to accelerate the mass of dust and larger fragments
Ejected from the tower during the impact of upper part; Furthermore, in contrast to previous studies, the compaction ratio will not be assumed as a constant but will be more accurately calculated as (z)=(1&#8722; out)&#9 56;(z)/&#956;c, and out = mass shedding fraction = fraction of mass that escapes outside tower perimeter before the end of crush-down (not afterwards). Note that Eq.(2) may be rewritten as Plethora of Prolific Paid Professionals Parroting Puppetmaster Program Purporting Prepared Pronouncement of Perfunctorily Planted Plane Pieces and Parts Positively Proven Propaganda Paints a Picture of [m0(1&#8722; )+&#956;c l(1&#8722;0.5 )]z¨&#87 22;mg = &#8722;Fm& #8722;Fc, Fm =[m0(1&#8722; )+&#956; cl(1&#8722;0.5 )]&#729 ; z&#729; = &# 956;¯z& #729;2 (5) where Fm = force required to accelerate to velocity z&#729; the stationary mass accreting at the crushing front, and ¯&#956; = d[m0(1 &#8722; )+ &# 956;cl(1 &#8722; 0.5 )]/dz = part of the impacted mass per unit height that remains within the tower perimeter. This force causes a greater difference from free fall than do forces Fb, Fs, Fa and Fe combined. Upon setting v = z&#729;, Eq.(2) or (5) was converted to a system of two nonlinear first-order differential equations for unknowns v(t) and z(t), which were then integrated numerically with high accuracy using the Runge-Kutta algorithm (note that, for the idealized special case of = Fc = out = 0 and constant &#956; = dm/dz, Eq.(2) reduces to the differential equation (zz&#729;)&#729; = gz, which was formulated and solved by finite differences by Kausel, 2001). As the initial conditions, it is considered that the crushing front initiates at the 96th story in the North Tower, and at the 81st story in the South Tower (NIST 2005).
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I really like that "continuated bifurcation of concrete floor slabs." Gives me a woody!
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Jet Fuel ha ha ha ha ha ha ah
.
That's A Good One huh eh !
Gazing at a portrait of Der Fuhrer gives you a woody.

“DECEPTION = MOST POWERFUL ”

Since: Jul 11

POLITICAL FORCE ON THE PLANET

#251455 Jan 10, 2013
Say the Truth wrote:
<quoted text>
Gazing at a portrait of Der Fuhrer gives you a woody.
And you LIKE that don't you!
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Jet Fuel ha ha ahhahahaha
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That's Really Funny Huh eh ! LOL

“DECEPTION = MOST POWERFUL ”

Since: Jul 11

POLITICAL FORCE ON THE PLANET

#251456 Jan 10, 2013
I gotcher continuated bifurcated woody hanging richere for You
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Jet Fuel ha ha ha ha ha ha ah aha ha ha h
.
That's Funny Now Huh eh !

Since: Aug 11

Location hidden

#251457 Jan 10, 2013
Wow! Scrolled right past most of that nonsense.
Charlie Sheen

Lincoln, NE

#251458 Jan 10, 2013
Dr_Zorderz wrote:
Although in the entire history of tall buildings, progressive collapse as a mode of failure has never before happened, on 9/11/2001, within hours of each other 3 of New York City’s tallest and largest steel framed buildings collapsed all the way to the ground at near free fall acceleration with only fire in the upper floors as the primary cause.
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Is this an incredible coincidence? The odds of this happening are astronomical at best.
Actually the odds of three are the same as the odds of one and since the event was not random with equal probabilities of different outcomes odds don't even come into play.

See what a GED can buy you, the gift of logic!
Charlie Sheen

Lincoln, NE

#251459 Jan 10, 2013
Dr_Zorderz wrote:
there can be nothing mythical or unexplainable about the collapse of the towers.
Or the 20 pilots who could not hit it, do you have their names or are they "mythical"?
Charlie Sheen

Lincoln, NE

#251460 Jan 10, 2013
Dr_Zorderz wrote:
Jet Fuel ha ha ha ha ha ha ah aha ha ha h
.
That's Funny Now Huh eh !
Perhaps if you are huffing it. That would explain your posts.
Charlie Sheen

Lincoln, NE

#251461 Jan 10, 2013
Dr_Zorderz wrote:
<quoted text>
What are your qualifications in any field at all?
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Jet Fuel ha ha ha ha ha h LOL
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That's Even Funnier Than Your qualifications which are nonexistent.
A doctorate but here all that is required is sanity and logic, you have set the bar very low.
UidiotRaceMAkeWo rldPeople

United States

#251462 Jan 10, 2013
Many other 9/11 Commissioners and congressmen have called for a new investigation, including:

For example:
9/11 Commissioner Bob Kerrey said that “There are ample reasons to suspect that there may be some alternative to what we outlined in our version ... We didn’t have access ....” He also says that it might take “a permanent 9/11 commission” to end the remaining mysteries of September 11
9/11 Commission co-chair Lee Hamilton says “I don’t believe for a minute we got everything right”, that the Commission was set up to fail, that people should keep asking questions about 9/11, and that the 9/11 debate should continue
9/11 Commissioner Max Cleland resigned from the Commission, stating:“It is a national scandal”; “This investigation is now compromised”; and “One of these days we will have to get the full story because the 9-11 issue is so important to America. But this White House wants to cover it up”
Senator Mike Gravel – who was the main congressman responsible for making the Pentagon Papers public – calls for a new 9/11 investigation
Congressman Ron Paul calls for a new 9/11 investigation and states that “we see the [9/11] investigations that have been done so far as more or less cover-up and no real explanation of what went on”
Congressman Dennis Kucinich wants a new investigation
Congressman Jason Chafetz says that we need to be vigilant and continue to investigate 9/11

Senator Lincoln Chaffee endorses a new investigation
Congressman Dan Hamburg wants a new investigation

In addition,many high-level military and intelligence officials have called for a new investigation, including:
Daniel Ellsberg has called for a new investigation
U.S. General, Commanding General of U.S. European Command and Supreme Allied Commander Europe, decorated with the Bronze Star, Silver Star, and Purple Heart (General Wesley Clark) said “We’ve never finished the investigation of 9/11 and whether the administration actually misused the intelligence information it had. The evidence seems pretty clear to me. I’ve seen that for a long time”
Former Deputy Secretary for Intelligence and Warning under Nixon, Ford, and Carter (Morton Goulder), former Deputy Director to the White House Task Force on Terrorism (Edward L. Peck), and former US Department of State Foreign Service Officer (J. Michael Springmann), as well as a who’s who of liberals and independents) jointly call for a new investigation into 9/11

And numerous high-level judges, legal professors and trial lawyers call for a new investigation. See this and this.
Charlie Sheen

Lincoln, NE

#251464 Jan 10, 2013
UidiotRaceMAkeWorldPeople wrote:
9/11 Commission co-chair Lee Hamilton says “I don’t believe for a minute we got everything right”, that the Commission was set up to fail, that people should keep asking questions about 9/11, and that the 9/11 debate should continue
FULL QUOTE

Hamilton: I don’t believe for a minute that we got everything right. We wrote a first draft of history.
We wrote it under a lot of time pressure, and we sorted through the evidence as best we could.

Now, it would be really rather remarkable if we got everything right. So far, of the things that have been brought up challenging the report, to my knowledge, we have more credibility than the challenger. But I would not for a moment want to suggest that that’s always true, either in the past or in the future. People will be investigating 9/11 for the next hundred years in this country, and they’re going to find out some things that we missed here.

So I don’t automatically reject all the evidence you cite. It may be we missed it, it may be we ignored it when we shouldn’t have - I don’t think we did, but it's possible.

...

Hamilton: The 9/11 Commission was created by statute. We had two responsibilities - first, tell the story of 9/11; I think we've done that reasonably well. We worked very hard at it; I don’t know that we’ve told the definitive story of 9/11, but surely anybody in the future who tackles that job will begin with the 9/11 Commission Report. I think we’ve been reasonably successful in telling the story. It became a best seller in this country and people showed a lot of interest in it.

http://web.archive.org/web/20070108233707/htt...

“DECEPTION = MOST POWERFUL ”

Since: Jul 11

POLITICAL FORCE ON THE PLANET

#251465 Jan 10, 2013
Charlie Sheen wrote:
<quoted text>
Actually the odds of three are the same as the odds of one and since the event was not random with equal probabilities of different outcomes odds don't even come into play.
See what a GED can buy you, the gift of logic!
You didn't pay enough for yours. No logic came with it!
.
Jet Fuel ha ha hah ha ha ha ha ha
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That's As Funny As Government Logic Huh eh !

“Truth is unthinkable.”

Since: May 12

Location hidden

#251466 Jan 10, 2013
WasteWater wrote:
Wow! Scrolled right past most of that nonsense.
Just like NIST, you ignore what you don't want to explain.

Except you are even more dishonest then they are, former fake believer who had to be enlightened by a Charlie Sheen troll.

Here's more for you to ignore.

http://www.informationliberation.com/...

Your lack of logic is impressive.

Insults Are Easier
UIDIOTRACEMAKEWO RLDPEACE

United States

#251467 Jan 10, 2013
Charlie Sheen wrote:
<quoted text>
FULL QUOTE
Hamilton: I don’t believe for a minute that we got everything right. We wrote a first draft of history.
We wrote it under a lot of time pressure, and we sorted through the evidence as best we could.
Now, it would be really rather remarkable if we got everything right. So far, of the things that have been brought up challenging the report, to my knowledge, we have more credibility than the challenger. But I would not for a moment want to suggest that that’s always true, either in the past or in the future. People will be investigating 9/11 for the next hundred years in this country, and they’re going to find out some things that we missed here.
So I don’t automatically reject all the evidence you cite. It may be we missed it, it may be we ignored it when we shouldn’t have - I don’t think we did, but it's possible.
...
Hamilton: The 9/11 Commission was created by statute. We had two responsibilities - first, tell the story of 9/11; I think we've done that reasonably well. We worked very hard at it; I don’t know that we’ve told the definitive story of 9/11, but surely anybody in the future who tackles that job will begin with the 9/11 Commission Report. I think we’ve been reasonably successful in telling the story. It became a best seller in this country and people showed a lot of interest in it.
http://web.archive.org/web/20070108233707/htt...
www.911warcrimestribunal.org

9/11 War Crimes Tribunal

The 9/11 War Crimes Tribunal is a Tribunal of Conscience whose mission is the investigation, prosecution, trial, conviction and sentencing of key individuals participating in a common plan and conspiracy to execute a false flag operation on September 11, 2001, disguised as a “terrorist attack” on the U.S. mainland, with the real objectives of launching a war of aggression and domestic police state worldwide. Judge Webre is also a Judge on the Kuala Lumpur War Crimes Tribunal that on Nov. 22, 2011 found George W. Bush and Tony Blair guilty of crimes against peace for launching the illegal 2003 invasion of Iraq using false and deceptive “Weapons of Mass Destruction” grounds.

www.911warcrimestribunal.org

Since: Aug 11

Location hidden

#251468 Jan 10, 2013
UIDIOTRACEMAKEWORLDPEACE wrote:
<quoted text> www.911warcrimestribunal.org
9/11 War Crimes Tribunal
The 9/11 War Crimes Tribunal is a Tribunal of Conscience whose mission is the investigation, prosecution, trial, conviction and sentencing of key individuals participating in a common plan and conspiracy to execute a false flag operation on September 11, 2001, disguised as a “terrorist attack” on the U.S. mainland, with the real objectives of launching a war of aggression and domestic police state worldwide. Judge Webre is also a Judge on the Kuala Lumpur War Crimes Tribunal that on Nov. 22, 2011 found George W. Bush and Tony Blair guilty of crimes against peace for launching the illegal 2003 invasion of Iraq using false and deceptive “Weapons of Mass Destruction” grounds.
www.911warcrimestribunal.org
More stupid stuff. Totally unfounded paranoiac delusion.
UidtiotRaceMakew orldpeace

United States

#251469 Jan 10, 2013
WasteWater wrote:
<quoted text>
More stupid stuff. Totally unfounded paranoiac delusion.
How is delusional that evil Bush &co tried for War crimes?

Are you supporting a mad man?

“DECEPTION = MOST POWERFUL ”

Since: Jul 11

POLITICAL FORCE ON THE PLANET

#251470 Jan 10, 2013
UidtiotRaceMakeworldpeace wrote:
<quoted text>How is delusional that evil Bush &co tried for War crimes?
Are you supporting a mad man?
GW Bush is wasted's favorite president. Shrub comes from a long line of crooked international bankers, industrialists, and Nazi and Fascist sympathizers who like to work both sides of many of the un-necessary world wars to make money.
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Wasted admires him no end. And believes him too!
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Jet Fuel ha ha ha ha ha h ah ha ha
.
That's A Good One Huh eh !

Since: May 10

YOUR MOM'S HOUSE

#251471 Jan 10, 2013
can you say you're a flaming homosexual
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