Are we heading to Civil War II?

“Fear is the Mind-Killer”

Since: Jun 08

Albuquerque, NM

#307 Oct 24, 2008
True American wrote:
<quoted text>
Our government has already gone too far.
What do you suggest we do?
I have been actively posting about the tainted words such as left and right wing. Democrat and Republican.
Recognize that the existence of corporations has nothing to do with a free market, and are not part of the "private sector."

The number one cause of distrust and confusion in the American system is being convinced that Big Business is part of the American system.

When Carl Marx ranted against capitalism, a word that had no meaning in the 1800's, somehow, Americans thought he was talking about them. He was not. Capitalism back then simply meant elitism and mercantilism. The "middle-class" to Carl Marx were wealthy merchants that lived better than the nobility, but without the titles. There was no middle-class equivalent by American standards at all ... until now.

Marx actually proved the American Forefathers right. Except, they knew it long before him. The only difference is, Marx was a fool, and thought everyone should be equally peasants amongst peasants.

America liberty was meant to make us kings amongst kings.

But now Americans doubt their freedom because they have become Europeans back in the 1800's ... workers getting paid very little ... instead of landowners with their own business. Carl Marx wanted to save the working class. Our Forefathers were way ahead of him ... there was never meant to be a working class ... just a self-employed class.

Think you can convince Americans of what their great grandparents already knew long ago?

“Fear is the Mind-Killer”

Since: Jun 08

Albuquerque, NM

#308 Oct 24, 2008
True American wrote:
<quoted text>
You crack open a history book. Romans were anything but "primative"
If we didn't learn from history, we would be living in caves.
I TEACH history, do not make silly assumptions based on little or no information about me. I have a LIBRARY of Roman literature.

Compared to the free-thinkers of the Age of Enlightenment, and the Founding Fathers of America, they were DEEPLY primitive. Nor did they invent or think of half the things they are given credit for. Their constitution was from Carthage. Their technology was from Greece. Their military experience and weapons were from the Celts.

Indeed, we SHOULD be learning from history ... HOW NOT TO BE LIKE THE ROMANS!!!!

“Fear is the Mind-Killer”

Since: Jun 08

Albuquerque, NM

#309 Oct 24, 2008
Some1 Else wrote:
<quoted text>
Though I agree with some of what you have said, I disagree here. Romans were indeed primitive in their governing. The state and religion were basically one, they had laws upholding slavery, they tossed prisoners to wild beasts to the roar of the fans, they were imperialistic, the list goes on and on. They were very much more concerned, in general, with learning how to manipulate the people better than with actually governing effectively. Probably why Plutarch wrote this:
"When the populace are suspicious about some important and salutary measure, the statesmen when they come to the Assembly ought not all to express the same opinion, as if by previous agreement, but two or three of the friends should dissent and quietly speak on the other side, then change their position as if they had been convinced; for in this way, since they appear to be influenced only by the public advantage, they draw the people along with them."
In the art of psychological manipulation of a populace, the Romans advanced quite well. But their greed eventually ruined an empire.
Excellent, someone that HAS cracked open a history book about the Romans, and knows how NOT to glorify civilized barbarians.

Not repeating that history would be nice, and yet, here we are in 2008 repeating Roman history. Two-party system of conservatives and liberals EXACTLY how the Romans had ... just before Augustus became First Citizen (or de facto emperor.)

They too cried out for a "leader." And who was it? Caesar. Do we never learn from history?

“more cowbell”

Since: Oct 08

Grand Prairie, TX

#310 Oct 25, 2008
dixieb wrote:
<quoted text>
You might be surprised how many you don't have in an Obama administration.
Obama - Chicago politician who wants to restrict gun laws.
Me - Illinois resident who has paid attention to what he has and Hasn't done.
Do some research. And don't let your pied piper lure you away....
he's gonna have a hard time doing that if he doesn't know how many are out there. And I really don't believe he and his Shocktroops are gonna be out there knocking on doors, especially since the troops are mostly in Iraq and Afghanistan, and have lots of nice guns at home anyway. The next logical progression is to determine what the conservatives have in their gunsafe and what the so-called liberals have in theirs.("liberals" being anyone who isn't a neocon) I myslef an am Independent: fiscally conservative, socially liberal, strong on defense.
True American

Flushing, NY

#311 Oct 25, 2008
Yankee Yahoo wrote:
<quoted text>
Excellent, someone that HAS cracked open a history book about the Romans, and knows how NOT to glorify civilized barbarians.
Not repeating that history would be nice, and yet, here we are in 2008 repeating Roman history. Two-party system of conservatives and liberals EXACTLY how the Romans had ... just before Augustus became First Citizen (or de facto emperor.)
They too cried out for a "leader." And who was it? Caesar. Do we never learn from history?
Organized barbarians yes!
Hopefully,we can learn from our history and create a wiser future.

Originally, you called the Romans "primitive".
I disagreed with that.
Organized,barbarians is much more accurate.
True American

Flushing, NY

#312 Oct 25, 2008
Some1 Else wrote:
<quoted text>
Though I agree with some of what you have said, I disagree here. Romans were indeed primitive in their governing. The state and religion were basically one, they had laws upholding slavery, they tossed prisoners to wild beasts to the roar of the fans, they were imperialistic, the list goes on and on. They were very much more concerned, in general, with learning how to manipulate the people better than with actually governing effectively. Probably why Plutarch wrote this:
"When the populace are suspicious about some important and salutary measure, the statesmen when they come to the Assembly ought not all to express the same opinion, as if by previous agreement, but two or three of the friends should dissent and quietly speak on the other side, then change their position as if they had been convinced; for in this way, since they appear to be influenced only by the public advantage, they draw the people along with them."
In the art of psychological manipulation of a populace, the Romans advanced quite well. But their greed eventually ruined an empire.
They also "borrowed" a great deal of their culture from Greece.
Romans were the Julian tribe of thugs originally.
We apparently disagree about the term "primitive",which I take to mean ,less advanced and unsophisticated.
Both pre and post Republic Rome was advanced and sophisticated for the time. The fact that Julian tribe barbarians controlled the system without achieving personal and collective maturity and wisdom why they failed.
The went against each other.
Some of us can learn from past mistakes and some are destined to learn in their own time.
True American

Flushing, NY

#313 Oct 25, 2008
Yankee Yahoo wrote:
<quoted text>
I TEACH history, do not make silly assumptions based on little or no information about me. I have a LIBRARY of Roman literature.
Compared to the free-thinkers of the Age of Enlightenment, and the Founding Fathers of America, they were DEEPLY primitive. Nor did they invent or think of half the things they are given credit for. Their constitution was from Carthage. Their technology was from Greece. Their military experience and weapons were from the Celts.
Indeed, we SHOULD be learning from history ... HOW NOT TO BE LIKE THE ROMANS!!!!
I'm sure you indeed do teach history.
History is always re-written by the victors and winner of war.
As with any story, there are always 2 sides.
I have made it a point to study all sides to come to my conclusions.

My assertion that Romans weren't primitive I answered in my last post.
True American

Flushing, NY

#314 Oct 25, 2008
thebabbster wrote:
<quoted text>
("liberals" being anyone who isn't a neocon) I myslef an am Independent: fiscally conservative, socially liberal, strong on defense.
That's a great deal of folks as well. Hope they can get it together and stop fighting.

“CHAINS YOU CAN BELIEVE IN”

Since: Sep 08

Chicagostan,Ill

#315 Oct 25, 2008
True American wrote:
<quoted text>
So for you, it's black or white, wrong or right, us or them.
How simplistic.
Real life is so much more complex than that.
If you have no tolerance for a different point of view and want everyone to goosestep to your own way of thinking, you are a dictator.
Anything different that what you (think) that you know.scares you ( obviously) so you attack.
Who is the "we" that built this country?
Dictators?
There is one in Cuba that you should go visit, no one dares speak out against him, everyone is completely in line. It's called communistic Dictatorship and you sound like you'd fit right in.
You will never stop projecting your own fears upon the never ending "them" you will always have an enemy.
Why live in such constant fear? What are you so afraid of?
Some things are black and white, and trying to make everything gray is not the answer. The Communists love to get people to compromise on their principles then they have won.Our Constitution is black and white but the liberals try to dilute it every day to weaken it. What part of "shall not be infringed" don't you understand? If you believe that there are exceptions to every rule why have the rule at all? Every time some liberal finds some imagined injustice on a few people, well then the rule has to be changed to accommodate, and then everyone has abide by the new rule. The rule in the Constitution is that Government shall PROMOTE the public welfare, but liberals think it says PROVIDE for the public welfare. There is right and wrong, good and evil, black and white, everything is not gray.

“CHAINS YOU CAN BELIEVE IN”

Since: Sep 08

Chicagostan,Ill

#316 Oct 25, 2008
Prophet wrote:
The US Federal government undermines individual State sovereignty if they decide to pass amendments nullifying State constitutions elected by the will of the people. If for instance, several States decide to put in their constitution a marriage amendment and a ban on abortions, and the Federal government outlaws the will of the people in that state, the US constitution outlines the rights of the state to succeed from the union.
I can see several states banning together to protect itself from the federal government.
State Constitutions cannot supercede or be contrary to the U.S.Constitution. If South Carolina wants to re institute slavery for example,and amends their Constitution to reflect that desire, obviously this would be Un Constitutional by Federal standards.
Watcher

Jackson, GA

#318 Oct 25, 2008
If there is a war, you can bet the Liberals won't be the ones firing the first shot.
Watcher

Jackson, GA

#319 Oct 25, 2008
Garand wrote:
<quoted text>Compromise? That can't happen. When you are right you have no need to compromise. Let the liberal American hating morons pack their shit and move to Cuba if they love Communism so much.
We built this country. We will not let them ruin it.
No we ALL built this country!

Just because someone doesn't agree with your narrow minded point of view does not make them communist or "Enemies".
True American

Flushing, NY

#320 Oct 25, 2008
Obama bin Biden wrote:
<quoted text> Some things are black and white, and trying to make everything gray is not the answer. The Communists love to get people to compromise on their principles then they have won.Our Constitution is black and white but the liberals try to dilute it every day to weaken it. What part of "shall not be infringed" don't you understand? If you believe that there are exceptions to every rule why have the rule at all? Every time some liberal finds some imagined injustice on a few people, well then the rule has to be changed to accommodate, and then everyone has abide by the new rule. The rule in the Constitution is that Government shall PROMOTE the public welfare, but liberals think it says PROVIDE for the public welfare. There is right and wrong, good and evil, black and white, everything is not gray.
How simplistic you and your kind are.
So you mean to tell me that the current Republican administration who begged for and received a $700 billion dollar Socialist bailout in the taxpayers dime is that a "liberal's imagined injustice"
In Bush' 8 years in office 6 of which had a Republican house and Senate, didn't they change things if the solution were so black and white.
God Bless America

Santa Cruz, CA

#321 Oct 25, 2008
Jesus said that a house divided against itself cannot stand. America was founded as a Christian nation. The motto of the American Revolution was "NO KING BUT KING JESUS." The Constitution was signed, "in the year of our Lord (Jesus Christ) seventeen hundred and eighty-seven." All Americans need to turn back to God so that we can learn to love our neighbors as we love ourselves and to do to others what we would want them to do to us.
How to get to Heaven:
1. You will spend all of eternity either in heaven or in hell. Jesus Christ said,“Enter through the narrow gate. For wide is the gate and broad is the road that leads to destruction, and many enter through it. But small is the gate and narrow the road that leads to life, and only a few find it.”(Matthew 7:13)
2. Unforgiven sin is what damns a person to hell forever. The Apostle Paul said,“All who sin apart from the law will also perish apart from the law, and all who sin under the law will be judged by the law.”(Romans 2:12)
3. We are all sinners who need to be forgiven. The Apostle John said,“If we claim to be without sin, we deceive ourselves and the truth is not in us.”(1 John 1:8)
4. We can never be good enough to earn forgiveness. The Apostle James said,“Whoever keeps the whole law and yet stumbles at just one point is guilty of breaking all of it.”(James 2:10)
5. Salvation is a free gift by the grace of God through faith in Jesus Christ. The Apostle Paul told Christians,“It is by grace you have been saved, through faith--and this not from yourselves, it is the gift of God-- not by works, so that no one can boast.”(Ephesians 2:10)
6. Jesus Christ paid the price for the sins of all who would believe in Him. The Bible says,“For what I received I passed on to you as of first importance: that Christ died for our sins according to the Scriptures, that He was buried, that He was raised on the third day according to the Scriptures…”(1 Corinthians 15:3)
7. I encourage you to seek God’s forgiveness and grace today. The Apostle John said,“If we confess our sins, He is faithful and just and will forgive us our sins and purify us from all unrighteousness.”(1 John 1:9)
johnny canuk

Quesnel, Canada

#322 Oct 25, 2008
Some1 Else wrote:
<quoted text>
I can agree with this. No compromise on the constitution. When it comes to legislation though, and particularly when the parties within a dualistic system have polarizing positions, compromise is absolutely necessary. We get nowhere fast by going from one extreme to another.
Your post makes me wonder....are you against NAFTA?
i havn't thought NAFTA through thouroughly..so i don't really want to comment on it..

all i can say is that now we in canada are supposed to be able to import products from america duty free.....

thang is....we still pay "fees" for bringing autos into canada from america....
we also need to have 2 inspections done on the vehicle ..
1]...provincial..
2]...federal.
at your own expense, naturally..

during all this inspecting you have to purchaase fron a government agent at your own expense, testing permits to legally drive the car back and forth to the testing facilitys..

then you must purchase another transportation permit to a licensing agent who verifies the VIN on the vehicle..
so then if all your papers,and testing permits are in order then you can register the vehicle in your name..

it's called in canada, being "2 bitted" into poverty..instead of duty fees, they get the money through regulations..
so much for the "free" part of free trade!

...this is socialism at work....coarse y'all are going to find out more about that first hand if you elect mr.osama..ooops...obama..

“more cowbell”

Since: Oct 08

Grand Prairie, TX

#323 Oct 25, 2008
True American wrote:
<quoted text>
That's a great deal of folks as well. Hope they can get it together and stop fighting.
I second that emotion

“Free your mind”

Since: Sep 07

Location hidden

#324 Oct 25, 2008
Yankee Yahoo wrote:
<quoted text>
Excellent, someone that HAS cracked open a history book about the Romans, and knows how NOT to glorify civilized barbarians.
Not repeating that history would be nice, and yet, here we are in 2008 repeating Roman history. Two-party system of conservatives and liberals EXACTLY how the Romans had ... just before Augustus became First Citizen (or de facto emperor.)
They too cried out for a "leader." And who was it? Caesar. Do we never learn from history?
I stay pretty busy and history isn't my field, only my obsession....though mainly in the evolution of political history, and of course, so much went hand-in-hand with the religious history of many cultures. Some things do not change very easily at all, it would seem.....

Do we ever learn from history, you ask. It seems there is always the group within society who see things for what they are and to what they may lead. Hopefully, that group will grow drastically soon, but I feel it's possible too much complacency has become comfortable to the point of pure apathy. The hope is still alive that I am dead wrong on this.

Please check out this story, and tell me where you think this could possibly lead. I'd be very interested to get your take on where this line of publicity may intend to go, esp. considering it has to do with the use of some internet socializing apps. Do they mean this very kind of venue or what? Thanks in advance for your input:

http://www.breitbart.com/article.php...

Garand

“Freedom is not free”

Since: Jun 07

Location hidden

#325 Oct 26, 2008
Obama bin Biden wrote:
<quoted text> Some things are black and white, and trying to make everything gray is not the answer. The Communists love to get people to compromise on their principles then they have won.Our Constitution is black and white but the liberals try to dilute it every day to weaken it. What part of "shall not be infringed" don't you understand? If you believe that there are exceptions to every rule why have the rule at all? Every time some liberal finds some imagined injustice on a few people, well then the rule has to be changed to accommodate, and then everyone has abide by the new rule. The rule in the Constitution is that Government shall PROMOTE the public welfare, but liberals think it says PROVIDE for the public welfare. There is right and wrong, good and evil, black and white, everything is not gray.
Exactly..
Madd Maxx ThunderDome

Flushing, NY

#326 Oct 26, 2008
True American wrote:
<quoted text>
How simplistic you and your kind are.
So you mean to tell me that the current Republican administration who begged for and received a $700 billion dollar Socialist bailout in the taxpayers dime is that a "liberal's imagined injustice"
In Bush' 8 years in office 6 of which had a Republican house and Senate, didn't they change things if the solution were so black and white.
Exactly!

“Up Front”

Since: Jul 08

Atlanta, GA

#327 Oct 26, 2008
Garand wrote:
<quoted text>Exactly..
AMEN!
or LMEN! or PMEN!......you know know what I mean!:p

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