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Prove there's a god.

# Prove there's a god.

Posted in the Top Stories Forum

“Life may be sweeter for this”

Since: Nov 08

Fennario

#773630 Aug 26, 2014
It aint necessarily so wrote:
a finite distance traveled on a path is not the path
Buck Crick wrote:
If not in distance, in what sense are you saying the path is infinite?
The length of a circular path is infinite. It has no final point or finite length like a path with a first and last point.
Buck Crick wrote:
You are proposing infinite distance by proposing an infinite path. That is the entire basis of the claim. It's potential for being traversed is what makes it a path. And what do we find by traversing the path? We find it to be finite. Always. Continue traversing it? We find it to be finite.
I'll say it again: a finite distance traveled on a path is not the path just as a finite collection of elements from an infinite set is not the set.
Buck Crick wrote:
I also disagree that having to imagine something doesn't mean it doesn't exist. If it's limited to imagination, it does not exist.
What does limited mean in this context? The path is real even if it can't be seen.

The precise celestial coordinates of the path of a comet, for example, can be determined. From Wiki: "In astronomy and celestial navigation, an ephemeris gives the positions of naturally occurring astronomical objects as well as artificial satellites in the sky at a given time or times."

The path is as real as the space it occupies and the forces that cause the celestial body to conform to it, all of which are also real even if they .can't be seen.
Buck Crick wrote:
Do you now realize you have been tricked into duplicating a God-Argument?
Which god argument is that?

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“Life may be sweeter for this”

Since: Nov 08

Fennario

#773631 Aug 26, 2014
Stilgar Fifrawi wrote:
Read my very simple sentence ["Christianity doesn't teach political agendas."] one more time, try it with an open mind this time.
Somebody's teaching these Christians to resist abortion, gay marriage, assisted suicide, embryonic stem cell research, etc. I've ruled out the IRS and KFC. Who do you think is the source?

Would you like to take a few moments to discuss what open-mindedness and closed-mindedness mean to you? What defines them and how do you identify them? Why did you imply that my rejection of your claim was closed-minded?

Too often on these threads, those words are used to refer to somebody not accepting somebody else's claim, or not being convinced by their argument.

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#773633 Aug 26, 2014
Joyful8118 wrote:
<quoted text>
I can't do all the work for you. Go find that out for yourself.
LOL...that's what I thought.

Next?

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#773634 Aug 26, 2014
timn17 wrote:
<quoted text>"God is real because I know he's real. My proof of his existence is that I know he exists."
You can't make this stuff up.
AND Joy knows who the real god is and who the fake gods are but, you know, she's not allowed to tell.

LOL

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“Life may be sweeter for this”

Since: Nov 08

Fennario

#773635 Aug 26, 2014
Stilgar Fifrawi wrote:
The Christians involved in the writing of that link are from the same "church" you constantly refer to. Why can't you accept the fact that some churches preach this while other churches preach that?
Of course I accept that. I am aware that different pastors give different sermons.
Stilgar Fifrawi wrote:
Why can't you accept the fact that there is no "the church". If there was, you would've posted it by now.
Posted what? My definition? I have defined "the church" several times just for you alone.

And yes, the term "the Christian church" refers to a collection of very real ideas and effects.
Stilgar Fifrawi wrote:
We are talking about God, what you call "your god". God doesn't keep human souls alive just to torture them, so your question is meaningless to begin with.
You don't need to tell me that there is no hell, no afterlife, and no suffering in either.

My question is not meaningless. Neither is your evasion of it.

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“Life may be sweeter for this”

Since: Nov 08

Fennario

#773636 Aug 26, 2014
It aint necessarily so wrote:
That's a bare claim. "What can be asserted without evidence can also be dismissed without evidence."  Christopher Hitchens
I am right wrote:
If that were the case, the latter would mean that no student should ever go to college since there is no evidence that they would indeed graduate or be successful enough to climb the economic ladder enough to pay their loans......, then dismiss the idea of going to college altogether. Banks loan money to students every day on the premise and faith that they will graduate and get jobs good enough to pay them back.
Another Christian with no idea what evidence is or how to use it. Obviously, students have reason to believe that they might graduate and have better incomes for having gotten an education, and banks have reason to believe that their school loans will be repaid by graduates. What's remarkable is that you have trouble understanding that. I blame a lifetime of faith based thinking. It stunts and deforms the reasoning faculty.

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“Life may be sweeter for this”

Since: Nov 08

Fennario

#773637 Aug 26, 2014
thewordofme wrote:
You write: "Hell is a real place for physical and spiritual torture for those (like topix atheists) that are willfully blaspheming God /Jesus/Christians. The atheists choose Satan and therefore will burn and endure eternal thermal and mechanical torture forever as payback for their willful decision to reject God and serve their failed god Satan." Is your God the Baptist or the Pentecostal God?

Your God is not much of a God.
That god deserves to be tortured forever. My scenario of slitting its throat would be showing it more mercy than it shows the souls that we are told it keeps alive just to make them suffer.

Incidentally, it seems very likely that this trend to mitigate hell theology is a result of people like us making comments like these. Before we had a voice, virtually nobody was criticizing the torture god, and the church was content to use the fear to its advantage. By underscoring the monstrous nature of this god, I believe that we have given some Christians cause to experiment with reinventing hell theology. From Stilgar's link at http://www.remnantofgod.org/hellfire.htm :

"One needs to ask one question of themselves. Do they believe a God that would send His one and only Son to die a torturous and humiliating death would create a place that would be used for TORTURE for ALL eternity? Does the character of God come off as a tyrant who enjoys hearing the screams of people who have decided not to worship Him? Would this sound like a way to "glorify" Him as a loving and giving Father? Or does this sound like a way to de-glorify Him as a mean and unmerciful tyrant?"

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“Life may be sweeter for this”

Since: Nov 08

Fennario

#773638 Aug 26, 2014
timn17 wrote:
"logomachy" Good word, new one for me.
Hey timn, nice to have you with us, and thanks for the feedback.

Yes, it's a good word, especially for this activity.

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“It's time. . .”

Since: Jun 13

Terra Australis

#773639 Aug 26, 2014
Stilgar Fifrawi wrote:
<quoted text>
Petty car thieves don't typically go to prison.
About 15 years ago, I had my work truck stolen along with a few thousand dollars of my work tools, my life blood.
We caught the tweaker ourselves and he was arrested and convicted.
Got 30 days.
Released in 14.
He paid no debt to no one, just got some much needed sleep and showers.
He won out.
In that case, it would be more like real justice if you boys had thumped him.

“Life may be sweeter for this”

Since: Nov 08

Fennario

#773640 Aug 26, 2014
Rosa_Winkel wrote:
<quoted text>
At the risk of sounding like my mother: What if everybody stole a car?
You remind me of the guy who complained that nobody ever returned the books he'd loaned them, and that if it wasn't for the books that he'd "borrowed," he wouldn't have any at all.

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“Life may be sweeter for this”

Since: Nov 08

Fennario

#773641 Aug 26, 2014
Buck Crick wrote:
There was only one Elvis. So? Is that just a big misunderstanding?
If you're a Squdbillies fan, you might enjoy this. These two are the voices of Early Cuyler and Krystal

And if you aren't familiar with them, this might help.

“It's time. . .”

Since: Jun 13

Terra Australis

#773642 Aug 26, 2014
Catcher1 wrote:
<quoted text>
That's Kant's categorical imperative.
Aha, the old Immanuel Kant and his nonconsequentialist ethics. I'll have to read up on it again.

“It's time. . .”

Since: Jun 13

Terra Australis

#773643 Aug 26, 2014
Stilgar Fifrawi wrote:
Stilgar Fifrawi wrote:
I was talking about rapists, men.[being hung by the nuts as punishment]
Don't you think that's a fair punishment for rape?
<quoted text>
Then what would you suggest as a preventative punishment for would-be rapists?
And what would you suggest as a punishment for rapists?
A good punishment would be to sentence them to several decades as a prison b*ch. A couple of ex-cons have told me that rapists definitely get a dose of their own medicine in there.

“It's time. . .”

Since: Jun 13

Terra Australis

#773644 Aug 26, 2014
timn17 wrote:
<quoted text>Prison is plenty harsh to people who have something to lose - in other words, prison is scary to people who are functional members of society. It's not so much that our prisons are inherently enjoyable, it's that certain segments of our society are so messed up as to render the difference between freedom and prison negligible in the minds of members of said segments. The solution is to give criminals a good reason to want to remain in free society, such that a life of crime interspersed with regular jail sentences no longer seems tolerable to them. So, rehabilitation coupled with post release support and social programs/education in areas hit particularly hard by crime.
Obviously, there are some people who can be said to be beyond help, and need to be separated from society, but with our current system failing so spectacularly, I think it's about time to take a cue from those countries that have had success with trying to rehabilitate their criminals, as opposed to locking them up in a veritable crime school and hoping that they'll change their ways once released.
People who have been in prison a long time become institutionalized - that becomes their world and they find it hard to survive in the real free one. Another thing is that they get free accommodation and meals, not of the hustle of the outside.

So it's not an ideal solution, but I don't know what is.

“I started out with nothing”

Since: Nov 10

and still got most of it left

#773645 Aug 26, 2014
Rosa_Winkel wrote:
<quoted text>
A good punishment would be to sentence them to several decades as a prison b*ch. A couple of ex-cons have told me that rapists definitely get a dose of their own medicine in there.
Castration from the neck is not good enough

“It's time. . .”

Since: Jun 13

Terra Australis

#773646 Aug 26, 2014
curiouslu wrote:
Nope, still no proof of any alleged god existing, just more evidence of christian bigotry and lunacy.
<quoted text, snipped>
Christian Pastor: Homosexuality 'Shall Be A Felony Punishable By Ten Years In Prison At Hard Labor'
A pastor is calling for an amendment to the U.S. Constitution that would make homosexuality a felony -- with ten years hard labor.
Pastor Michael Wilson on his "Preaching Politics" YouTube channel is calling for a constitutional amendment making the "practice of homosexuality a felony punishable by ten years in prison at hard labor."
Pastor Wilson urges his followers to only vote for politicians who support this amendment -- which no politician has supported, yet, to our knowledge -- because, as his amendment says, the "United States is a Christian nation with Judeo-Christian ethics, morals, principles and values."
âWhile Christians are becoming increasingly tolerant of homosexuals, homosexuals are becoming increasingly intolerant of us," Pastor Wilson laments. "Whereas homosexuality used to be a felony in every state, referred to as sodomy, it has now been decriminalized, and homosexuality is allowed to be openly expressed in public."
<snipped, quoted text>
http://www.thenewcivilrightsmovement.com/past...
Full on! I guess funny-mentalists don't live in the 21C.

Guess he wants to bring back the old days, when homosexuality was a crime - but only for men. Here, you could get 14 years for committing "buggery with mankind", but the same act with the missus was legal. Those laws really do belong in the dustbin of history; they were scrapped here in 1984, later in Queensland.

Then again, was it such a punishment to send them to jail with other men?!

Since: Dec 12

Yes, I'm an Atheist.

#773647 Aug 26, 2014
Rosa_Winkel wrote:
<quoted text>People who have been in prison a long time become institutionalized - that becomes their world and they find it hard to survive in the real free one. Another thing is that they get free accommodation and meals, not of the hustle of the outside.

So it's not an ideal solution, but I don't know what is.
http://youtu.be/6hB3S9bIaco

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#773649 Aug 26, 2014
timn17 wrote:
<quoted text>It may not be the only factor, and it is of course true that plenty of poor people never turn to crime, but poverty is in fact an excellent predictor of criminal behavior.
It can be a predictor, as well as many other things can, like say being an atheist. See, that is just as much BS as your statement.

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#773650 Aug 26, 2014
timn17 wrote:
<quoted text>"God is real because I know he's real. My proof of his existence is that I know he exists."
So *that* was your 'clear point?' My sardonic paraphrasing of your post? That god is real because you know he's real, and your proof of his existence is that you know he exists? Truly absurd.
Joyful8118 wrote:
<quoted text>
Exactly my point. The unbelievers carry on about how they know absolutely that there is no God. However, that is just their belief. I do have sufficient proof for myself, but that is not sufficient for you all. And the unbelievers cannot make up that they know there is no God. I have proof for myself that there is a God and you all are sure you have proof there isn't. Now, we have it cleared up and I have made my point.

You have seen and responded to this, so yes, you have seen clearly what my point was and is. Stop playing ignorant games.

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#773651 Aug 26, 2014
Catcher1 wrote:
<quoted text>
Oh, come on.
I have standards and you know it.
And I have thought you do too.
It wasn't about standards. It was a typo, I was trying to get caught up on the thread fast, I was tired, and I was sick with a cold. I rarely make those type of mistakes and you just want to be an ass. I know that is common nature for a lawyer to be an ass but, like you tell RR, try to be a better person.:) Have a ----- day

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