Prove there's a god.

Since: May 10

Location hidden

#773260 Aug 25, 2014
It aint necessarily so wrote:
<quoted text>
None of your "proofs" are proof of anything. Having to imagine something doesn't mean it doesn't exist, a finite distance traveled on a path is not the path, which may be infinite, and physical reality does not rule out infinity. That's you ruling out infinity.
<quoted text>
How long do you intend to keep making the same assertions? You don't seem to really care about exchanging ideas as much as you do about the logomachy.
If not in distance, in what sense are you saying the path is infinite?

You are proposing infinite distance by proposing an infinite path. That is the entire basis of the claim.

It's potential for being traversed is what makes it a path.

And what do we find by traversing the path? We find it to be finite. Always.

Continue traversing it? We find it to be finite.

I also disagree that having to imagine something doesn't mean it doesn't exist.

If it's limited to imagination, it does not exist.

Do you now realize you have been tricked into duplicating a God-Argument?

“Life may be sweeter for this”

Since: Nov 08

Fennario

#773261 Aug 25, 2014
It aint necessarily so wrote:
Infinite in the mathematical sense is not an amount. It is the condition of being unlimited.
Buck Crick wrote:
It is an imaginary mathematical term for comparison of limits.
That doesn't make sense.
Buck Crick wrote:
Difficulties arise when people begin to think an imaginary entity is real.
I think you're committing an equivocation fallacy. Imaginary can mean not real, but it can also be applied to real things being imagined. I am imagining a butterfly landing on Bigfoot. Are they both imaginary? In one sense yes, but in another, no, only Bigfoot is imaginary.

How about time and space? Are they imagined or seen? Are they real or imaginary? Is space real? Is a path in space real? Is the earth's orbit real?

Since: May 10

Location hidden

#773262 Aug 25, 2014
wilderide wrote:
<quoted text>
Presumably then your disbelief in every religion except one is also ignorant.
Are you sure that's your final answer?
He said that atheism is ignorant.

Atheism is not disbelief in religion.

Your question is, therefore, incoherent.

“Is that all you've got?”

Since: Jun 10

Location hidden

#773263 Aug 25, 2014
Stilgar Fifrawi wrote:
700 posts over the weekend...
700 posts behind....
Ugh
lol, that's only if you expect to read all of them. Scroll, baby, scroll.

“Life may be sweeter for this”

Since: Nov 08

Fennario

#773264 Aug 25, 2014
Stilgar Fifrawi wrote:
By saying something like "the Bible has no relevance except that churches promote it" shows your Biblical ignorance. That means you're not schooled on church or the Bible.
That's a bare claim.

"What can be asserted without evidence can also be dismissed without evidence." – Christopher Hitchens

“Life may be sweeter for this”

Since: Nov 08

Fennario

#773265 Aug 25, 2014
It aint necessarily so wrote:
"Reward - a thing given in recognition of one's service, effort, or achievement, something given or received in return or recompense for service, merit, hardship, etc."
Buck Crick wrote:
The sense of reward I was speaking of fits those definitions.
Disagree. Not even close. Consider the words "recognition" and "recompense."
Buck Crick wrote:
If the atheist does an act for which he receives a good feeling, self-esteeem, or any sense of moral goodness, that is a reward. By your reasoning, that eliminates the act as being a moral good.
Disagree again. The good feeling is not present with most moral acts, and is not the motive for the right action with authentic moral behavior. You can do a kindness for somebody and feel no differently that you did immediately before.

“Ditat Deus”

Since: Jul 12

Location hidden

#773266 Aug 25, 2014
Catcher1 wrote:
So only our Redneck has the truth?
That's a bit arrogant, wouldn't you agree?
That you keep using an offensive word? Yes, that is arrogant.

Since: May 10

Location hidden

#773267 Aug 25, 2014
It aint necessarily so wrote:
<quoted text>
<quoted text>
That doesn't make sense.
<quoted text>
I think you're committing an equivocation fallacy. Imaginary can mean not real, but it can also be applied to real things being imagined. I am imagining a butterfly landing on Bigfoot. Are they both imaginary? In one sense yes, but in another, no, only Bigfoot is imaginary.
How about time and space? Are they imagined or seen? Are they real or imaginary? Is space real? Is a path in space real? Is the earth's orbit real?
If the term "butterfly" signifies an imaginary concept, "butterflies" are imaginary.

But the term "butterfly" signifies an actual physical concept.

"Infinity" signifies an imaginary concept. Even in mathematics, it is not allowed to be actually represented, but only symbolically represented. Any representable set cannot be an infinite set and any infinite set cannot be actually represented.

"Space" is real because of how it is defined.

Same for "time" and the earth's orbit.

“Ditat Deus”

Since: Jul 12

Location hidden

#773268 Aug 25, 2014
nanoanomaly wrote:
<quoted text>lol, that's only if you expect to read all of them. Scroll, baby, scroll.
Haha. Naw, I got a few pages in and gave up.

“Ditat Deus”

Since: Jul 12

Location hidden

#773269 Aug 25, 2014
It aint necessarily so wrote:
That's a bare claim.
"What can be asserted without evidence can also be dismissed without evidence." – Christopher Hitchens
Assertions like "your God doesn't exist" or "many gods are more likely than one"?

Yes, easily dismissed.

Since: Apr 14

Location hidden

#773270 Aug 25, 2014
Stilgar Fifrawi wrote:
<quoted text>
This is lengthy, but if read and studied, you'll have your answers:
http://www.remnantofgod.org/hellfire.htm
Thanks for the link. I will read it.

Since: May 10

Location hidden

#773271 Aug 25, 2014
It aint necessarily so wrote:
<quoted text>

How long do you intend to keep making the same assertions? You don't seem to really care about exchanging ideas as much as you do about the logomachy.
I am exchanging ideas.

It's just that the ideas I'm given in return are inferior.

I suppose I will continue until someone offers a logically sound rebuttal, which is unlikely to the extreme, or posters stop trying, or I get tired of it.

I do acknowledge you have made the best attempts so far.

Aura's attempts, along with the previous from Polymath and Darwin's Stepchild, are pathetic.

“Ditat Deus”

Since: Jul 12

Location hidden

#773272 Aug 25, 2014
Catcher1 wrote:
I co-authored a book about this, and related topics.
Think about it and you may be able to figure it out.
Think about it as an exam question.
I can't figure it out, even with the help of the Googlers.

I've had a vehicle stolen more than once. The last time it cost me over $700 for tow,$200 for a new window,$100 for a new stereo, and about $50 in miscellaneous repairs. That affected me only, not society. Unless you're going to say that I am part of society so by affecting me, it affected society.

If you've co-authored a book on the subject then you've done more research on it than I have. Use that one car theft as an example of how the criminal victimized society instead of an individual.

“Life may be sweeter for this”

Since: Nov 08

Fennario

#773273 Aug 25, 2014
Stilgar Fifrawi wrote:
Christianity doesn't teach political agendas.
I disagree. It's one of the secularists' chief complaint about it. It's very political.

“Ditat Deus”

Since: Jul 12

Location hidden

#773274 Aug 25, 2014
Stilgar Fifrawi wrote:
Christianity doesn't teach political agendas.
It aint necessarily so wrote:
I disagree. It's one of the secularists' chief complaint about it. It's very political.
Are you going to cite an individual church's claim again? Maybe a few of them?

Read my very simple sentence one more time, try it with an open mind this time.

Since: May 10

Location hidden

#773275 Aug 25, 2014
It aint necessarily so wrote:
<quoted text>
<quoted text>
Disagree. Not even close. Consider the words "recognition" and "recompense."
<quoted text>
Disagree again. The good feeling is not present with most moral acts, and is not the motive for the right action with authentic moral behavior. You can do a kindness for somebody and feel no differently that you did immediately before.
I disagree. I think good feeling is associated with most moral acts.

Oxytocin is secreted, even by only witnessing such an act.

If no benefit is derived from moral acts, why would such a behavior evolve?

“Is that all you've got?”

Since: Jun 10

Location hidden

#773276 Aug 25, 2014
Buck Crick wrote:
<quoted text>
But if one DOES get psychological pleasure, and anticipates such, that is a reward.
Your objection should apply as it does to moral acts done for external reward.
Kitties purr in anticipation of pleasure. He probably strokes his own ego rather prematurely, I'm sure. It's not all that different than Christians who think they're insuring their future by buying a ticket to heaven. It staves off anxiety, or...at least, takes the edge off, ever so temporarily.
;)

“Life may be sweeter for this”

Since: Nov 08

Fennario

#773277 Aug 25, 2014
Stilgar Fifrawi wrote:
The monster you refer to doesn't exist. God does not put people in hell for eternity. Born-again Christians will live in Heaven for eternity, people that have rejected God will die. The same death you atheists think will happen to everybody, you just turn off like a broken radio. That's why your question is irrelevant.
It aint necessarily so wrote:
That's your theology, not the church's.
Stilgar Fifrawi wrote:
Was that supposed to be a rebuttal?
No. I didn't address your argument at all except to say that it was yours. The commonest message from the church differs from yours, which is why the link you provided at http://www.remnantofgod.org/hellfire.htm goes to such pains to refute it.

In any event, if we're not talking about your god, then you should not be offended by a question about the moral status of killing a god that would keep human souls alive just to torture them for the purpose of freeing those souls. Are we agreed that such a god would be a monster, and that killing it to end eternal torture for billions would be a moral good? It's really not a hard question.

Do you know the term summum bonum, meaning the highest good?
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Summum_bonum

What would be a higher good than ending infinite suffering?
feces for jesus

Westbury, NY

#773278 Aug 25, 2014
Stilgar Fifrawi wrote:
<quoted text>
This is lengthy, but if read and studied, you'll have your answers:
http://www.remnantofgod.org/hellfire.htm
Such ridiculousness should not be passed off as fact. There are certainly no answers in that absurd link. Hel/hell has nothing to do with your religion; it's a Germanic idea and tradition that has nothing to do with any judeo-christian religion. All you are doing is perpetuating the lies of your religion.

“Is that all you've got?”

Since: Jun 10

Location hidden

#773279 Aug 25, 2014
Stilgar Fifrawi wrote:
<quoted text>
Haha. Naw, I got a few pages in and gave up.
You gotta learn to scroll past the smaller trolls like Kaitlyn/Curiouslu, scrooge, tide, Karl, tam/Alice and skewer the bigger ones. Saves time. Most of the idiots are here just to tire you, and, ergo, dull your edge with superfluous drivel.

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