Prove there's a god.

Since: May 10

Location hidden

#767914 Aug 12, 2014
It aint necessarily so wrote:
<quoted text>
There argument for a multiverse is this:
The universe exists, and it appears to be fine tuned to support life and consciousness. Only four hypotheses that I can come up with can account for that:
[1] Our universe was intelligently designed.
[2] One universe formed from nothing, or has always existed (the eternally banging-crunching universe) and just happens to support life and consciousness.
[3] Multiple universes of varying types formed spontaneously from nothing, and those capable of supporting consciousness do. This is one of them.
[4] An unconscious source from which universes arise exists. We can call this the multiverse.
The first two are the least likely.
A conscious, omnipotent, omniscient god is the least likely thing to exist uncreated and undesigned. Lesser gods are more likely, but still much less likely than an unconscious entity (a multiverse).
And a very lucky single roll of the is also very unlikely, like a god. The evidence for the bang-crunch hypothesis, incidentally, took a big hit with the discovery of the accelerating expansion of the universe. It may never crunch.
Neither of these hypotheses can be ruled out on the basis of being extremely unlikely, but they both fall to the bottom of the list because of it.
The best explanation is that there are uncountable numbers of universes, which is likely if they arise by an unconscious process. Whatever process accounts for the one would be expected to yield many (That is true for gods as well. Whatever could yield one should yield many - the reason there are so many of everything from atoms to people to galaxies).
If infinite universes can arise without a source, then we don't need the multiverse, and we get option [3]. I can't rank either [3] or [4] as the more likely of the two. Nor can I rank [1] as more or less likely than [2]. But I can put both [3] and [4] far ahead of both [1] and [2].
[3] and [4] are most likely, and [1] and [2] are least likely. That is the
<quoted text>
Incoherent? Hardly. It may in fact be impossible, but the idea is very clear, and cannot be declared impossible at this time. That makes the idea coherent.
No special pleading please. Spontaneously arising universes are more likely than spontaneously arising gods. An infinitely existing multiverse is more likely than an infinitely existing god. Simply calling the hypotheses that contradict your faith based preferences incoherent won't do.
Once again, I want to point out the differences in our ways of thinking, and the differences in the kinds of ideas our two minds generate. My ideas don't require tortured sophistic defenses or special pleading. I say that that is an indication that they are more in tune with the reality, which is exactly what you would expect the difference to be between thought slavishly devoted to evidence and reason, which ideas are likely to map reality more accurately, and the thoughts of a mind that permits itself to wander where it desires, and is then forced to rationalize its choices. One set of arguments ring true, the other the opposite.
And yes, I realize that you see it in reverse. I understand. Faith does that, too. And because of that, I expect this argument to be rejected out of hand by you. But I am writing to a larger audience, much of which shares my intellectual values - reason and evidence over faith and rationalization - and I wanted to make the point about the differences between faith based thought and thought absent faith explicitly.
(3) is impossible and (4) is a dodge.

The reasoning for why this is so has nothing to do with faith.

Your allowance that either could be explanatory IS a reflection of faith.

It is your faith that something can arise from nothing (3), and to displace the problem is to explain the problem (4).

(2) is impossible via the same reasoning, so if we are limited to your 4 hypotheses (your call), the answer has to be (1).

“I started out with nothing”

Since: Nov 10

and still got most of it left

#767915 Aug 12, 2014
Stilgar Fifrawi wrote:
Stilgar Fifrawi wrote:
You'll be waiting a long time. The atheists believe God isn't real, though they'll never admit that.
<quoted text>
um..... Your belief that God isn't real.
THAT belief.
You really are buck come to haunt us in stereo??? The same flawed logic, the same black and white, the same you are for me or against me... the same buck...

There is no belief involved; I know your god is not real

Since: May 10

Location hidden

#767916 Aug 12, 2014
It aint necessarily so wrote:
<quoted text>
Only his own
<quoted text>
Nope. They mean what we say they mean. "I filled my fralf with flarf" has no meaning. But if I say that flarf is the substance that fuels combustion engines, and that a fralf are the devices most of us use most of the time to travel several miles, then the words "I took my flarf to fill it with fralf" is just as meaningful as "I filled my car with gasoline." Words mean what the people using them think they mean. Successful communication depends only upon words having the same meaning to the different people using them.
When somebody like Ghost Writer insists that words have only the meaning he gives them, as when he writes "Faith is identical to trust. Period," then he cuts himself out of the communication loop. He will convert what others mean when they use that word into "trust," and he will misunderstand them.
Why do people do that? To try to control thought, their own as well as that of others.
Flarf would still have no meaning. There is a word for gasoline. It's "gasoline".

If I said "flarf" is my girlfriend's ass, I would be just as correct as you.

Which means it has no meaning.

“I started out with nothing”

Since: Nov 10

and still got most of it left

#767917 Aug 12, 2014
Stilgar Fifrawi wrote:
<quoted text>
There's no point with you, you're a fuckingretard.
Stalin was an atheist, plain and simple.
Retards can't understand that.
So you have no evidence, no links you can provide to validate you claim, nothing... fair enough.

What you have is a fooking big right foot you keep sticking in your big mouth whenever your ignorant brain runs in neutral.

You see there is this thing called history, it is a sort of education thing where you learn and corroborate facts, not the BS of self serving hearsay of US godbot authors. Maybe you should give it a try sometime.

“Ditat Deus”

Since: Jul 12

Location hidden

#767918 Aug 12, 2014
ChristineM wrote:
You really are buck come to haunt us in stereo??? The same flawed logic, the same black and white, the same you are for me or against me... the same buck...
There is no belief involved; I know your god is not real
I know what your belief about God is.

It's a strange belief but a belief nonetheless.

Unless you can prove your last statement there, it's your belief.

“Life may be sweeter for this”

Since: Nov 08

Fennario

#767919 Aug 12, 2014
It aint necessarily so wrote:
Very good. Bellying up is answer enough
Stilgar Fifrawi wrote:
My answers don't have to fit your preconceived notions of the hate-filled, anti-gay Christian message you claim exists.
You can answer as you like, but when it is as substance free as the ones you provided, it constitutes bellying up. You might as well have not answered.
Stilgar Fifrawi wrote:
What's the Christian anti-gay message that it teaches?
Gays morally sick, and deserve eternal torture.
Stilgar Fifrawi wrote:
I didn't call you a liar, I said I didn't believe you.
That might be a significant distinction if I were saying something that I could be mistaken about. I might be wrong but not lying. You could not believe me without accusing me of lying.

But this is different. I told you that I didn't see your post. I cannot be mistaken. I am either telling the truth or lying. You called me a liar. I had been willing overlook it on the assumption that maybe you didn't realize that. But I have made it clear, and you are hunkering down anyway. Are you sure about your position?

“Ditat Deus”

Since: Jul 12

Location hidden

#767920 Aug 12, 2014
ChristineM wrote:
<quoted text>
So you have no evidence, no links you can provide to validate you claim, nothing... fair enough.
What you have is a fooking big right foot you keep sticking in your big mouth whenever your ignorant brain runs in neutral.
You see there is this thing called history, it is a sort of education thing where you learn and corroborate facts, not the BS of self serving hearsay of US godbot authors. Maybe you should give it a try sometime.
You've been given tons of evidence and dozens of links showing that Stalin was an atheist.

History says Stalin was an atheist, Christine of Topix says otherwise.

But she also says E=MC2 proves God can't be omnipotent.

The same God she "knows" isn't real.

Oh what to do, what to do.

Do we believe every historian about Stalin's atheism or Christine of Topix.....?

Gee

Since: May 10

Location hidden

#767921 Aug 12, 2014
ChristineM wrote:
<quoted text>
I always say, if I can make someone happy them I have succeeded, even if the one doing the laughing is buck mk II
Stalin, born into an orthodox christian family, father a priest, raised to be a priest, attended seminary. Considered the abuse of religious power by the tsars to be against gods teaching. After his rise to power he reconstituted the christian church institutions and was responsible for re-opening 25,000 churches. It was said of him that he was the only true believer in Christ in the Kremlin, his personal library was littered with christian text, when his daughter asked about Christ, he replied ‘Christ surely existed’.
Does this sound like the life of a non christian?
I don't know....

Let me see....

Did you leave out anything, Christ?

....Like maybe his mass murder of christians and takeover of their churches?

Bwahahahahahahahhahahhahahahaa aaaa.a......

Or did you leave out his forced atheist education in government schools?

Bwahahahahhahahhahahahhahhahah ah...

Or did you leave out his imprisonment and hanging of priests?

Bwahahahhaahhahahaha....

Well, yes, that is beginning to sound like a non-christian.

Bwhahahahahhahahahhahhahahha.. .

“Life may be sweeter for this”

Since: Nov 08

Fennario

#767922 Aug 12, 2014
Buck Crick wrote:
Academic analysis establishes to near certainty that Jesus was a historical person. This is resisted only by the most extreme fringe.
Nope. There is plenty of room for uncertainty. Insisting otherwise is merely faith speaking again.

What does "near certainty" mean?

And what kind of evidence rises past the level of mere possibility, past the level of likelihood or probability, all of the way to near certainty, but doesn't achieve certainty?

“Ditat Deus”

Since: Jul 12

Location hidden

#767923 Aug 12, 2014
Stilgar Fifrawi wrote:
What's the Christian anti-gay message that it teaches?
It aint necessarily so wrote:
Gays morally sick, and deserve eternal torture.


That's not anti-gay, and Christianity does not teach that anyone deserves eternal torture.

You're wrong.

“I started out with nothing”

Since: Nov 10

and still got most of it left

#767924 Aug 12, 2014
Stilgar Fifrawi wrote:
<quoted text>
I know what your belief about God is.
It's a strange belief but a belief nonetheless.
Unless you can prove your last statement there, it's your belief.
Ahh so you consider yourself an omniscient god now?

I suggest you make an appointment with a psychiatrist

And stop judging what you cannot understand by your own ignorance

P.S. here is a little heads up, you know fook all about me, what you think you know is guesswork based on nothing more than your own limited sensibilities.

Since: May 10

Location hidden

#767925 Aug 12, 2014
ChristineM wrote:
<quoted text>
Then put your money where your mouth is and be good enough to supply detail of that atheism, just a few valid details or even links will do.
Or are you not just buck mk ii but yet another original buck and consider any foot stomping statements you make to be good enough to sway academia?
Oh by the way, I am not really interested in papers written in the 60’s and 70’s by US authors with the protection of US christian sensibilities and an eye on their bank balance in mind. For evidence you will need to supply works contemporary to the life of Stalin.
P.S. You may be interested to know that buck has already failed this little task... several times
Bwahahahahahhahahhahhahahah... .

Contemporary?

Would you accept the word of a guy who was there?

In the gulag?

And won a Nobel Prize for literature?

No, you would have to wait and see if he agrees with you. Right?

You are a moron. Nobody believes you have any reliance on the propriety of sources.

Nobody believes much of anything you say. Why?

You are a moron.

Since: May 10

Location hidden

#767926 Aug 12, 2014
Stilgar Fifrawi wrote:
<quoted text>
There's no point with you, you're a fuckingretard.
Stalin was an atheist, plain and simple.
Retards can't understand that.
You have never been more correct - on both persons.

Since: Dec 12

Yes, I'm an Atheist.

#767927 Aug 12, 2014
Stilgar Fifrawi wrote:
<quoted text>There's no point with you, you're a fuckingretard.

Stalin was an Atheist, plain and simple.

Retards can't understand that.
There's a good little christian.

http://i.imgur.com/aMIYZnu.jpg

Incidentally, you've spelled dyslexic incorrectly and she is still, far more intelligent than you.

“I started out with nothing”

Since: Nov 10

and still got most of it left

#767928 Aug 12, 2014
Buck Crick wrote:
<quoted text>
I don't know....
Let me see....
Did you leave out anything, Christ?
....Like maybe his mass murder of christians and takeover of their churches?
Bwahahahahahahahhahahhahahahaa aaaa.a......
Or did you leave out his forced atheist education in government schools?
Bwahahahahhahahhahahahhahhahah ah...
Or did you leave out his imprisonment and hanging of priests?
Bwahahahhaahhahahaha....
Well, yes, that is beginning to sound like a non-christian.
Bwhahahahahhahahahhahhahahha.. .
Christians mass murder, it is a tenet of the babble first undertaken by you god. In fact it is written that you god was the first mass murderer. Fine example eh?

Next...

What is atheist education? Ahh you mean non christian education???

Next...

Priests who were in the pockets of the Tsars, that is a little point you seem to omit, the corruption of the church prior to the revolution. I wonder why you always fail to mention this?

Next...

It actually sound like a christian despot who beloved in the christian church and not in the Tsars being closer to god than the people the Church is designed for.

Oh yes and has the prison doctor been round with you medication yet? Looks like you are getting a little edgy and you know you don’t want another spell in solitary do you?

“Ditat Deus”

Since: Jul 12

Location hidden

#767929 Aug 12, 2014
ChristineM wrote:
Ahh so you consider yourself an omniscient god now?
I suggest you make an appointment with a psychiatrist
And stop judging what you cannot understand by your own ignorance
P.S. here is a little heads up, you know fook all about me, what you think you know is guesswork based on nothing more than your own limited sensibilities.
You claimed to "know" that God doesn't exist, I know that much about you.

I also know that's an empty claim.

I also know that's your belief.

Why don't you know that?

“Ditat Deus”

Since: Jul 12

Location hidden

#767930 Aug 12, 2014
curiouslu wrote:

Incidentally, you've spelled dyslexic incorrectly and she is still, far more intelligent than you.
I didn't use the word dyslexic, how do you figure I misspelled a word I didn't even write?

o.O

Since: May 10

Location hidden

#767931 Aug 12, 2014
It aint necessarily so wrote:
<quoted text>
Nope. There is plenty of room for uncertainty. Insisting otherwise is merely faith speaking again.
What does "near certainty" mean?
And what kind of evidence rises past the level of mere possibility, past the level of likelihood or probability, all of the way to near certainty, but doesn't achieve certainty?
"Near certainty" means very high probability.

It's almost certain that the man written about in NT as Jesus lived in the area he is said to have lived, at the time he is said to have lived.

This does not speak to his divinity.

“Ditat Deus”

Since: Jul 12

Location hidden

#767932 Aug 12, 2014
Buck Crick wrote:
You have never been more correct - on both persons.
It's hilarious watching Chrissy and Lu pat each other's backs and tell each other how genius they are are.

Frighteningly hilarious.

“I started out with nothing”

Since: Nov 10

and still got most of it left

#767933 Aug 12, 2014
Buck Crick wrote:
<quoted text>
Bwahahahahahhahahhahhahahah... .
Contemporary?
Would you accept the word of a guy who was there?
In the gulag?
And won a Nobel Prize for literature?
No, you would have to wait and see if he agrees with you. Right?
You are a moron. Nobody believes you have any reliance on the propriety of sources.
Nobody believes much of anything you say. Why?
You are a moron.
You can be as christian as the next guy to send a person to a gulag, buck fails again.

Tell me did this gut ever meet Stalin, yet alone know anything about his religious belief?

I really don’t know about this guit but I am sure his Kremlin buddies and his daughter and th ejounalist who was tasked with documenting he life perhaps know a little more than a guy in a gulag, even if he has a good reason to dis the people who put him there.

You mean you disagree therefore you think the rest of the world disagrees. It’s a symptom of the buck egotestical (correct spelling) self righteous BS we have all come to know and loath

Your projection is showing

Tell me when this thread is updated:

Subscribe Now Add to my Tracker

Add your comments below

Characters left: 4000

Please note by submitting this form you acknowledge that you have read the Terms of Service and the comment you are posting is in compliance with such terms. Be polite. Inappropriate posts may be removed by the moderator. Send us your feedback.

Top Stories Discussions

Title Updated Last By Comments
News Roman Catholic church only true church, says Va... (Jul '07) 24 min Anthony MN 649,769
The Christian Atheist debate (Jun '15) 1 hr It aint necessari... 55,916
Massage for ladies in Muscat 2 hr Ziyad 1
Israel End is Near (Feb '15) 4 hr Steve III 427
Will Atheism defeat religion by year 2038? (Feb '15) 4 hr Steve III 70
Does anybody know Doctor REALITY'S race or nati... 5 hr Johnny 39
Play "end of the word" part 2 (Dec '15) 5 hr Al Capone 2,292
Moms having sex with their sons (Aug '12) Fri Noname 69
More from around the web