Prove there's a god.

“The Bible is no science book”

Since: Jan 08

Location hidden

#762688 Jul 28, 2014
Stilgar Fifrawi wrote:
<quoted text>
I just don't understand how some people think that leisure activities should be covered and paid for by our business owners.
If anyone out there can try to make that makes sense, you're more than welcome to try.
What category would you put having babies and maternity leave? If contraceptives are for leisure, pregnancy in leisure on steroids. How do you think they became pregnant? Which cost less? A contraceptive or a 9 month pregnancy and maternity leave up to 90 days?

“Life may be sweeter for this”

Since: Nov 08

Fennario

#762689 Jul 28, 2014
Stilgar Fifrawi wrote:
Never said Hitler was irreligious.
There you go. Hitler was a theist, and his murders should be added to the list of atrocities committed by theists. Likewise with Ghengis Khan and Attila the Hun, neither of which disavowed Tengrism, the "Traditional religion of Turkic peoples and Mongols before their incorporation of major world religions. Incorporates elements of shamanism, animism, totemism and ancestor worship. Sometimes called called Goktanri religion" - Wiki

You might not like totalitarian atheistic world leaders, but having theists run a country has led to repeated genocides.

“Life may be sweeter for this”

Since: Nov 08

Fennario

#762690 Jul 28, 2014
It aint necessarily so wrote:
Hitler's principle actions were to wage war to expand his borders, and to commit genocide, both based on a sense of national pride and of being a chosen people. Neither Darwin's theory nor neo-paganism suggest or support such actions. That's pure Old Testament.
Stilgar Fifrawi wrote:
Hitler believed that the human gene pool could be improved by using selective breeding. That's his "master race" thingie. That's his love of science and evolution. And Darwinism.
Hitler believed his race was already genetically superior. And Darwin was not a eugenecist.

Can we assume that you have no objection or rebuttal to my post?

Since: Jun 14

Location hidden

#762691 Jul 28, 2014
It aint necessarily so wrote:
<quoted text>
Why does a non-Christian refer to the fruits of the spirit as if either the fruits or the spirit existed? You are much more Christian than you seem to realize.
Traditionally speaking IANS, the fruits of the spirit are how God is revealed, He knows us by the fruit we bear..

Matthew 15 : 16

Beware of the false prophets, who come to you in sheep clothing, but inwardly are ravenous
wolves, you will know them by their fruits..

Jesus Instructed to go and bare fruit and that fruit remain... LOVE!

John 15 : 18

“Life may be sweeter for this”

Since: Nov 08

Fennario

#762692 Jul 28, 2014
Stilgar Fifrawi wrote:
Religion = a particular system of faith and worship.
It sounds like you agree that atheism is not a religion. We reject faith based thought, and we don't worship.
Stilgar Fifrawi wrote:
Child abuse = Any recent act or failure to act on the part of a parent or caretaker which results in death, serious physical or emotional harm, sexual abuse or exploitation, OR an act or failure to act which presents an imminent risk of serious harm.
That definition is too narrow. The harm can come in several years and still be considered abuse now. Also, the damage need not be limited to the kinds of things listed above. Causing somebody to eschew reason and to embrace faith, myth, superstition, and magical thinking, and to cause them to waste thousands of hours and dollars over a lifetime on a false belief system is serious damage in my estimation.

“It's Time. . .”

Since: Jun 13

New Holland

#762693 Jul 28, 2014
curiouslu wrote:
"While I was having a nice Sunday morning, it instantly became disrupted with rage after a friend on Facebook shared a news story that the pastor of the new gospel outreach church in Scottsville, Kentucky, a registered sex offender, sexually assaulted a 14 year old boy once at the church and once at his home in Gallatin, Tennessee. Church leaders knew he was a registered sex offender when they hired him. The intern pastor explained, "We're firm believers in the bible so if god's forgiven you, then we're in no position to treat you otherwise". He added he was "not in a position to judge anyone." Dear christianity and all the covering up and ignoring you do of real problems: Fuck you."
http://i.imgur.com/HAGaUYv.jpg
Sure, if not molesting kids and thinking it's wrong makes me the warped one, then I'm the warpiest.
What a scumbag! For Roy Neal Yoakem, shooting would be too good.

“Life may be sweeter for this”

Since: Nov 08

Fennario

#762694 Jul 28, 2014
It aint necessarily so wrote:
90 million Christian Germans disagreed, including these:
http://snipurl.com/rg7o0
http://snipurl.com/rg7m0
http://snipurl.com/294qllj
http://snipurl.com/294qlo9
<quoted text>
Meekness is for the rabble. Christian leadership is arrogant and hateful. How meek are these prominent Christian? http://www.topix.com/forum/topstories/TOCO8TE...
The church giving lip service to love, meekness, the Golden Rule, etc, is not the same as those things characterizing it.
Stilgar Fifrawi wrote:
Ya, you've said all of this already. Where's your supporting evidence?
Did you see the five strings of blue words and characters in the post? Put your cursor - the arrow thing - over them, then click the mouse - the slidy thing. The supporting evidence magically appears.

“It's Time. . .”

Since: Jun 13

New Holland

#762695 Jul 28, 2014
Hidingfromyou wrote:
<quoted text>
If they're correct, and I suspect they are, then the teaching of mythology to children, as if that mythology is real, makes it easier for them to accept fantastical explanations for real world phenomena.
In other words, it's direct evidence that religion = child abuse.
And, from what we see on here, it carries into adulthood. How many Christians - and those two Muslims - believe in complete nonsense, like Noah's Flood? Someone on the "Is homosexuality a sin?" thread claimed that people really lived 900 years old, as claimed in the Bible, b/c of "higher oxygen levels and no GMO foods." hahaha! I was beside myself laughing at his outright stupidity - but it's truly a sad, sad thing that religion has done this to him.
He might have otherwise been an intelligent person. He might have otherwise understood the implications of geology, biology, archaeology, history, paleoanthropology and marveled at human history.
And just think how much further the entire world would be if America didn't intellectually cripple half it's population.
Because if they're told one fantasy, it's easier to believe others. Especially since churches don't encourage critical thinking.

A classic case of "believe that, and you'll believe anything".

“Life may be sweeter for this”

Since: Nov 08

Fennario

#762696 Jul 28, 2014
Stilgar Fifrawi wrote:
Without knowing the full context of the study, how in the world did you find that helpful? How do you know it wasn't a biased study? How do you know they didn't study 12 children? You said you were an evidence-based thinker....
It's nice how you selectively become skeptical.

And yes, I am an evidence based thinker. Do you think the evidence of a lifetime's worth of familiarity with journals like Cognitive Science - familiarity with their reputations, their methods, and their standards - is meaningless? It's not. Based on that report, familiarity with the journal refereeing and vetting process, another article I read on the same topic at http://www.rawstory.com/rs/2014/07/18/childre... (it was 66 children), and what I know about childlike thinking, I can tentatively conclude with a high degree of certainty that the abstract is reporting a real phenomenon.

What other context were you referring to? Did you mean content, like the experimental design, methods, and results?

“It's Time. . .”

Since: Jun 13

New Holland

#762697 Jul 28, 2014
Hidingfromyou wrote:
<quoted text>
http://onlinelibrary.wiley.com/doi/10.1111/co...
"In two studies, 5- and 6-year-old children were questioned about the status of the protagonist embedded in three different types of stories. In realistic stories that only included ordinary events, all children, irrespective of family background and schooling, claimed that the protagonist was a real person. In religious stories that included ordinarily impossible events brought about by divine intervention, claims about the status of the protagonist varied sharply with exposure to religion. Children who went to church or were enrolled in a parochial school, or both, judged the protagonist in religious stories to be a real person, whereas secular children with no such exposure to religion judged the protagonist in religious stories to be fictional. Children's upbringing was also related to their judgment about the protagonist in fantastical stories that included ordinarily impossible events whether brought about by magic (Study 1) or without reference to magic (Study 2). Secular children were more likely than religious children to judge the protagonist in such fantastical stories to be fictional. The results suggest that exposure to religious ideas has a powerful impact on children's differentiation between reality and fiction, not just for religious stories but also for fantastical stories."
Any education system that decreases the ability of a human being to reach their full potential as cognitive individuals is abusive.
Some children are taught to believe in Santa Claus, others the tooth fairy and others are taught to believe the Xian God is a reality.

It's the Big Lie.

“It's Time. . .”

Since: Jun 13

New Holland

#762698 Jul 28, 2014
River Tam wrote:
<quoted text>
Apparently Christian Mingle doesn't have a Women seeking Women section.
Who knew?
Ahhh, but you might have to save hand-holding for marriage.
:-)

“The Bible is no science book”

Since: Jan 08

Location hidden

#762699 Jul 28, 2014
dirty white boy- wrote:
<quoted text> Traditionally speaking IANS, the fruits of the spirit are how God is revealed, He knows us by the fruit we bear..
Matthew 15 : 16
Beware of the false prophets, who come to you in sheep clothing, but inwardly are ravenous
wolves, you will know them by their fruits..
Jesus Instructed to go and bare fruit and that fruit remain... LOVE!
John 15 : 18
This is what I keep saying about Viking. He says he does religious work and turns his cheeks all the time in the real world, when underneath his sheeps clothing, he wants to rip your throat out with his fangs. The true sheep in wolves clothing.

Waaaaaaupppp is supposed to be so religious, but is a snarky pervert underneath his sheeps clothing. As you say, we recognize them by their fruits. And it is not sweetness and light, butterflies and buttercups. It is name calling, putdowns and trying to stop people who don't believe in god from holding office.

“Life may be sweeter for this”

Since: Nov 08

Fennario

#762700 Jul 28, 2014
It aint necessarily so wrote:
It was a ruling more or less guaranteed to bring trouble. There will be more efforts to defy laws on religious grounds - basically the entire conservative agenda. "Supreme Court Justice Ruth Bader Ginsburg wrote in her dissent in the Hobby Lobby case that the Court’s conservative majority had “ventured into a minefield” with its decision. Many of those mines have already been placed by right-wing leaders who claim a religious grounding not only for anti-gay, anti-abortion, and anti-contraception positions, but also for opposition to collective bargaining, minimum wage laws, progressive taxation and government involvement in the alleviation of poverty." I think the secularists will be able to exploit this. These kinds of "religious beliefs" adversely affect tons of people each. Even Christian women want their contraceptives more than unwanted babies and abortions. And so do the men in their lives. And how many lukewarm Christians and fence riders will become enthusiastic unbelievers when they see Christianity being used to hurt them.
Stilgar Fifrawi wrote:
You're either ignorant of this case or you're being deceitful. The Hobby Lobby ruling does not prevent any woman in America from getting contraceptives of any kind.
You either lack reading comprehension or are being deceitful. I didn't claim that the ruling prevented women from getting contraception. I said that it adversely affected them. Some will have to pay for the contraceptives out of pocket, and others will have to do without if they have to choose between paying the rent or buying birth control pills.

Incidentally, we heard your argument from the HMOs that denied coverage for diagnostic and therapeutic interventions (MRIs and bone marrow transplants, for example) that physicians ordered when the patients later tried to sue them for the bad outcomes that resulted from their decisions. The HMOs told us that they weren't denying medical care to patients, just payment for them. I thought about as much of that as I do your comment.

Face it: The church wants what it wants without regard for the needs and values of others, and it doesn't care who it hurts. Church policy makers know that their anti-scientific talk damages America and puts the world at risk of a climate change disaster, but they couldn't care less. They know that recriminalizing abortion will lead to back alley procedures by untrained people using unclean tools in unsanitary condition, and what the consequences of that will be, but they couldn't care less. They know that promoting "abstinence only" promotes teen pregnancies, but they couldn't care less.

Christians shouldn't expect others to care about what Christians want any more than Christians care about others.

Since: Jun 12

Location hidden

#762701 Jul 28, 2014
It aint necessarily so wrote:
It has been demonstrated repeatedly that atheists are better educated and more knowledgeable than Christians even about religion.
Yer still an idjut. Do something productive with your miserable life. You do nuthin a-hole.

Since: Dec 12

Location hidden

#762702 Jul 28, 2014
It aint necessarily so wrote:
<quoted text>Why does a non-Christian refer to the fruits of the spirit as if either the fruits or the spirit existed? You are much more Christian than you seem to realize.
Lol. It's nice of you to believe him when he pretends he isn't, I'm not that nice but I don't blame him for being too embarrassed to admit it.

http://i.imgur.com/vDpdfGf.jpg

“Life may be sweeter for this”

Since: Nov 08

Fennario

#762703 Jul 28, 2014
It aint necessarily so wrote:
It's a Pandora's box. It was an extremely selfish, religious, and foolish verdict, and I expect secularists like American Atheists and the FFRF to exploit it.
Stilgar Fifrawi wrote:
I wonder what this country is coming to when people like the two of you are championing business owners being required to pay for people's leisure activities. Seriously, what are we coming to? You guys want all businesses to pay for every type of birth control for every employee, that's a leisure activity. You like playing jeopardy. If you had a job, would you be pounding on your boss' door demanding that he pay for it? If you enjoyed dirtbike writing, would you demand that your boss buy you a dirtbike, pay for the fuel and the insurance on it? Those are just more leisure activities, why not make the business owners just pay for everything? You know what, they should even pay our electric bills, damn them. Be careful that you don't walk into a socialist, communist mindset. I'm afraid that you might without even realizing it.
What are you talking about? What I am championing has nothing to do with leisure.

You don't like my proposed remedy - offering religious employees the choice of working for no pay or quitting their jobs - do you? Is that what you meant by leisure - unemployment?

If you resent my suggestion, then then you have a glimmer of how many secularists feel about the Hobby Lobby ruling. We resent a Christian being able to impose his or her Christian preferences on non-Christians, and want the power to do the same in return.

No special rights for Christians.

“Life may be sweeter for this”

Since: Nov 08

Fennario

#762704 Jul 28, 2014
It aint necessarily so wrote:
That was helpful. The damage begins young as we suspected. And obviously, blighting the reality faculty in early life has ramifications for the future. Christians shouldn't be surprised that evidence based thinkers with well developed reality faculties reject their premises, their ways of thinking, and their conclusions. What they think about science or what a scripture means, for example, are of little direct interest. Then they grow up and vote.
nanoanomaly wrote:
We suspect your damage began when someone pressed charges.
You have absolutely nothing but your personal attacks, which you think you have the right to spew. That is what makes you Christian trash. And you're not alone.

“Life may be sweeter for this”

Since: Nov 08

Fennario

#762705 Jul 28, 2014
It aint necessarily so wrote:
That was helpful. The damage begins young as we suspected. And obviously, blighting the reality faculty in early life has ramifications for the future. Christians shouldn't be surprised that evidence based thinkers with well developed reality faculties reject their premises, their ways of thinking, and their conclusions. What they think about science or what a scripture means, for example, are of little direct interest. Then they grow up and vote.
Hidingfromyou wrote:
If they're correct, and I suspect they are, then the teaching of mythology to children, as if that mythology is real, makes it easier for them to accept fantastical explanations for real world phenomena. In other words, it's direct evidence that religion = child abuse.
Agreed.
Hidingfromyou wrote:
And, from what we see on here, it carries into adulthood. How many Christians - and those two Muslims - believe in complete nonsense, like Noah's Flood? Someone on the "Is homosexuality a sin?" thread claimed that people really lived 900 years old, as claimed in the Bible, b/c of "higher oxygen levels and no GMO foods." hahaha! I was beside myself laughing at his outright stupidity - but it's truly a sad, sad thing that religion has done this to him. He might have otherwise been an intelligent person. He might have otherwise understood the implications of geology, biology, archaeology, history, paleoanthropology and marveled at human history. And just think how much further the entire world would be if America didn't intellectually cripple half it's population.
Agreed again.

This is a part of the argument against Christianity. It is the justification for treating the practice of exposing children to religion as similar to the practice of exposing them to sex, cigarettes and alcohol. If the government has the right to ban any of them, it has the right to ban them all.

And what legitimate objection do Christians have? That their kids won't buy it if they're not exposed to religion when too young to critically evaluate it?

That would probably cause Christian parents a lot of grief and consternation, like a Hobby Lobby employee unable to afford her contraceptives without giving up her Internet or gym membership. I suggest that we give the matter at least as much empathy.

Since: Jun 14

Location hidden

#762706 Jul 28, 2014
You must have me twisted with yourself.
What part of I am a Christian by tradition don't you get?
Just as you are.
So shame the devil and tell the truth..
I am a Christian as much as you are..

“Life may be sweeter for this”

Since: Nov 08

Fennario

#762707 Jul 28, 2014
Hidingfromyou wrote:
I like your take on it here, but I fear the outcome will be different. Look at how rigorously the Christians here deny Nazi Germany its Christianity. I believe American Christians will simply blame companies if they disagree with their implementation of law by saying such things as "well, those people aren't acting Christian. They're simply a bad example of an otherwise perfect religion.".
Yes, no doubt, but to what effect? We're not trying to reach the zealots, just the lukewarms and fence sitters, and to help indifferent atheists get a better sense for what this church represents.

It's the reaction of the zealots that I'm counting on here. I expect it to be ugly, selfish, and off putting to the culture at large, which is why I am anxious to see this issue get legs and remain in the news for years. I expect the Christians to keep trying to grab more, and for the culture to reject the church ever more because of it.

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