Prove there's a god.

Since: Jun 12

Location hidden

#747684 Jun 20, 2014
wilderide wrote:
<quoted text>
So God never killed the first-born child of every Egyptian just before the exodus?(Exodus 12:29-30)
God never commanded the Hebrews to murder every living Amorite, Canaanite, Hittite, Perizzite, Hivite and Jebusite who were already living on the "promised land", and destroy all their temples? Twice!(Exodus 34, and then again in Deuteronomy 20)
God never told the Hebrews to ethnically-cleanse the Amalekites, right down to "men and women, children and infants, cattle and sheep, camels and donkeys"?(1 Samuel 15:2-3)
God never commanded the Hebrews to attack the Midianites, including the children, and to take any virgins as prisoners of war whom they could rape?(Numbers 31:17-18)
And of course let's not forget the grand finale of global genocide which was the flood in Genesis. That never happened?(Genesis 7)
There are more examples too, let me know if you want a complete list.
So? As an atheist what is your beef? Are you claiming objective moral standards? These are objectively wrong in a world without God where men determines these things for any reason they choose? As an atheist why are they wrong? As an atheist who are you to determine what is right and wrong for ancient cultures in far away places? Do you know more about their circumstances than they did?
gort

Russia

#747685 Jun 20, 2014
55, 56, 57 among others. but divine inquisitor, why just mine, my love? no one else challenges your lies and deceit?

(btw, don't invent definitions for words my love. not smart. just sayin)

but love, tell me what to post and i will obey.
ROCCO

Indio, CA

#747686 Jun 20, 2014
scaritual wrote:
<quoted text>
Fanatastic, it's the "Real Christian™" argument.
I say that because we we see it in Christianity all the time. There are denominations that have differences and special beliefs, and even individual Christians will profess to having their own "take" on what it means to be a Christian, and often make the declaration that people who do not meet their own standards of what it means to be a Christian, are not "Real Christians™".
This is the rule: The only "Real Christian™" is the one you happen to be talking to at the moment, and they'll tell you who isn't, a "Real Christian™".
It's a great belief system when you can claim someone isn't a Real Christian™, because they did something you don't approve of.
That way, only the Christians that do things you do approve of, are Real Christians™.
I make no such distinctions. If they say they are Christian, I accept that they do believe they are Christian.
No matter what anyone says, I am not a Real Christian, with or without the ™.

Wouldn't want to be mistaken.
gort

Netherlands

#747687 Jun 20, 2014
divine inquisitor, "The ancients were relatively unsophisticated intellectually and morally. One consequence of that was that they voiced their naturalistic understanding through a mythical god that they called perfect and unchanging. But this voice evolved with humanity anyway. It's not a god. It's all man."

lord, inquizzie, your highness, why does it take us so long to listen to your voice? certainly modern man is just as retarded as the ancients because we still don't believe you. have mercy on us, D.I.

please describe more horrible things you've discovered in that plagiarized book and all the horrible things we have done. no one has ever considered those things. we need you to open our eyes. we christians are dumb and love comfort and do crimes all day. that's it and you are kind enough to spend 18 hours a day ramming your beliefs down our throats. we don't appreciate you enough. tell us more horror stories, please.

we all know no one has ever done anything beneficial for others because of mythical friends in the sky. you make that clear. save us inquizzie. i long to be just like you.
Cheetah

Hamrun, Malta

#747688 Jun 20, 2014
Hukt on Fonix wrote:
<quoted text>
There are so many ways I wanna respond to this that it's difficult to decide where to even start. No matter what, it's gonna get messy and I don't have the patience to care so here it goes.
For every atheist that lives life 'irresponsibly and without morals', whatever that means, there are a half-dozen, or a dozen, or two dozen, or a hundred theists doing the same. You can't tell them apart from one another. Don't pretend that you can.
As an atheist - and more importantly, as a human being - I do care about continued existence... others' continued existences... while you seemingly care about nothing beyond your own. Don't project your shortcomings and sense of dread onto people like me. Just don't. We're obviously nothing alike and you have no interest in comprehending my way of thinking... but, I'll try my hand at conveyance anyway.
It comforts me now, while I'm alive, to believe, TO HOPE, that life will continue after I'm gone - that it'll be worth living - that the human race will survive itself - and that something we share this planet with will also survive us.
The majority of us seem to care about nothing beyond our own existences. The pursuit of wealth is all that matters - the economy is all important and to hell with the ecology. Available work, like most resources, as limited. People complain that more more jobs are needed all the while doing everything they can, via technology, to eliminate actual work in favor of convenience and efficiency, yet none is willing to sacrifice any of their work... and make-work jobs are not a solution to anything. Polular opinion is that there's no such thing as waste as long it provides and edge over the competition and generates revenue. What once provided a livelihood for many is now hardly enough to keep one busy and we just keep producing more and more people. And if anyone figures out a way of not having to be a part of the problem, then someone else comes along and does their best make sure they get sucked right back into the fold... yadda, yadda, yadda... this could drag on for several posts, it's already going to fill more than one, you get my point... it's getting crowded and we're running out of stuff, or will be sooner than later... so we'll leave that at this and continue...
Religion, yours especially, the LARGEST one with the MOST adherents, is doing nothing to help, and in a major way is just adding fuel to the fire, so to speak...
"Be fruitful and multiply". Why? The reason given >>> To fill the Earth. Well... guess what? It's freggin' full!
And why should anyone care, right? These are the End Times, right? It's all going to be over for everyone here pretty soon, right? Let's just go ahead and use it all up the way God intended, right?
Heck, there are even those of you that not only believe "The End" is nigh, but stand by in anticipation, eagerly awaiting it, not giving a good godd_mn about anything other than their 'just rewards' in the afterlife.
<continued>
What you write here is a lot of BS coming from a deluded maniac.
Here is th proof -

How do you know that the human race "will survive itself" after you are gone?
That it "will be worth living"? after you are gone?
Or that "something we share this planet with will also survive us"?
So your word HOPE means nothing.
And to continue contradicting yourself to what you said above you make a whole list of why humans and life on earth have little chance of survival by the way things are going.
Your delusions and self-contradictions speak for themselves about your beliefs and mental state.
Also your assumptions about Christians are also false. Christians have a moral responsability for taking care of the earth and for responsible behaviour, unlike you atheists who have nothing to guide you except your ego.
Cheetah

Hamrun, Malta

#747689 Jun 20, 2014
Hukt on Fonix wrote:
<continued from previous>
I don't know where you actually stand with regard to some of the above... but, based on your commentary thus far, I do know this... we have totally opposed outlooks regarding life and death.
To borrow and paraphrase from something Hitchens said while alive and contemplating his own imminent end...
My outlook >>> When I have to leave, I want the party to continue in my absence.
Yours >>> When you have to leave, you want the party to end.
You won't admit to that. You'll just chuckle at my 'misunderstanding' and try to convince me that you'll be headed to another party.
I don't believe you've even convinced yourself of it.
If you had, you wouldn't be here claiming that you've "irrefutably" and "logically" and "immutably" proven that your god exists.
You just keep saying the same thing again and again, negating your own stance in the process, not realizing it, then patting yourself on the back and arrogantly claiming victory over the ignorant, evil atheists.
On the one hand, you claim science is concerned ONLY with the material... then, on the other, you claim there's some tenant of science that refutes a universe unto itself and proves there's a intelligent, caring, non-material god behind it all. Pick one or the other - you can't have it both ways.
If faith alone isn't good enough for you, then don't expect it to be good enough for anyone else. You've proven nothing except that you have no proof there's a god and will say anything to avoid having to admit it.
Where was I? Oh, yeah...
You might argue... with regard to parts of the above, and assuming that you're not a denialist, as so many Christians, especially in America, are... that it was science that got us into the mess we're in. In any case, you can't blame atheists - there simply aren't enough of us, as you're so fond of reminding everyone, for us to carry the MOST of the blame. That citation goes to the majority.
So...
Even though it's understood to not be exactly what you meant by it...
Don't sit there on your pedestal and preach about the irresponsibility and amoral behavior of people you know absolutely nothing about, other than knowing they don't share your fantastical and whimsical bull$hit beliefs... not when you're every bit as irresponsible and amoral as those you implicate when it comes to this life on this planet.
Those we should feel accountable to, for sure, are either very young or haven't been born yet. They're the ones that'll pay for our fckups while you stand by and do nothing but complain about people that have done you no wrong.
Is that vast enough of a difference for ya?
You can take both, YOUR religion and YOUR god, and shove 'em right up your stinkin' azz... you ignorant, egotistical, arrogant fckwad!
I sincerely mean that from the bottom of my Cheetah loathing heart.
Forgive the sentiment. I'm tired and grumpy and it's only the truth.
Have a nice day, azzhole!
Again you haven't proved anything except your ignorance, delusions, lies and hate.

“Credulity is not a virtue”

Since: Apr 09

San Francisco

#747690 Jun 20, 2014
It aint necessarily so wrote:
<quoted text>
The preference for truth over comfort is what rescued people like you and me from faith. Matt Dillahunty said it nicely on the Atheist Experience out of Austin, TX:
"My only goal was to be the best Christian I could be, and represent this to people who didn’t believe. And what I found - because I actually cared about whether or not my beliefs were actually true rather than whether they felt good - was that my beliefs weren’t justified. Try as I might and pray as hard as I could, no answer comes. No evidence is forthcoming. And when I talk to people about this, the only answer they ever offer is,‘Well, you just got to have faith.’ I don’t. Faith is not a virtue. Faith is gullibility. It’s evidence that determines whether or not your perception of reality is reasonable and in conjunction with the world as it is."
It is sad to me that some people are not only content to believe what isn't true, but to proselytize falsity.

“Credulity is not a virtue”

Since: Apr 09

San Francisco

#747691 Jun 20, 2014
lightbeamrider wrote:
wilderide wrote:
<quoted text>
You are judging ancient cultures by modern standards with zero objective basis. Retrojecting modern understanding mostly for shock value void of context. That is why you throw in loaded terms like misogyny, racism and ''Jewish porn revenge-rant.'' One wonders where you got that phrase? Incest, pederasty, even zoology [bestiality] was common in antiquity in non Jewish cultures before they were Christianized.
en.wikipedia.org/wiki/History_of_zoophilia
<quoted text> Your response above has zero to do with the context of your original and my response to it. Reprinted above. Instead you make another erroneous assumption about God. Stay on track. The ancients tolerated bestiality, pedophilia, sex slavery, slavery, mob violence, incest marriages in Egypt. They did not do much about any of these things unless it was politically expedient to enforce legal provisions against an enemy. Then you throw in 21st century loaded terms like misogyny and racism. One could conclude Roosevelt was a racist for appointing Hugo Black to the Supreme Court.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ku_Klux_Klan
Actually my comment directly refuted what you said. You said we can't judge ancient cultures by moral standards. And I'm asking you why not? If God told those ancient cultures that slavery was fine, shouldn't slavery still be fine today? If it used to be moral to force a rape victim to marry her attacker for the rest of her life, then why isn't that just as valid today?

Why is God's morality so inconsistent? Obviously, it's because contemporary people write the texts to reflect their own moral code.

“ad victoriam”

Since: Dec 10

arte et marte

#747692 Jun 20, 2014
Cheetah wrote:
<quoted text>
What you write here is a lot of BS coming from a deluded maniac.
Here is th proof -
How do you know that the human race "will survive itself" after you are gone?
That it "will be worth living"? after you are gone?
Or that "something we share this planet with will also survive us"?
So your word HOPE means nothing.
And to continue contradicting yourself to what you said above you make a whole list of why humans and life on earth have little chance of survival by the way things are going.
Your delusions and self-contradictions speak for themselves about your beliefs and mental state.
Also your assumptions about Christians are also false. Christians have a moral responsability for taking care of the earth and for responsible behaviour, unlike you atheists who have nothing to guide you except your ego.
The moral responsability for taking care of the earth is distinctly human , but not necessarily a christian one. As far as that goes it is more a humanist value than any of the Abrahamic religions. Though it can be incorporated into them it was never an intention.

http://www.humanistni.org/dynamic_content.php...

That's one of the most repulsive things about theists , is their trying to hijack all human values by proclaiming them coming from somewhere other than us humans in the first place.

“Credulity is not a virtue”

Since: Apr 09

San Francisco

#747693 Jun 20, 2014
lightbeamrider wrote:
<quoted text> That is because God did it is a reasonable and historical explanation given all we know and the counter proposal for the beginning makes no sense.
God is a simplistic explanation for which there isn't a shred of empirical evidence. In fact, it runs entirely counter to what we know about physics. Same with Brahman, Ra, Zeus, and every other proposed creator deity.

As for what science proposes as hypotheses for the beginning of the universe, why do they make no sense to you? Or rather, how much do you know about them?

“Credulity is not a virtue”

Since: Apr 09

San Francisco

#747694 Jun 20, 2014
lightbeamrider wrote:
<quoted text> Nothing does not produce everything and order is not blindly produced by chaos.
And yet your religion proposes that God produced everything from nothing, and that God itself was never created. And what objective, empirical evidence is there for such a remarkable claim?
Cheetah

Hamrun, Malta

#747695 Jun 20, 2014
wilderide wrote:
<quoted text>
So God never killed the first-born child of every Egyptian just before the exodus?(Exodus 12:29-30)
God never commanded the Hebrews to murder every living Amorite, Canaanite, Hittite, Perizzite, Hivite and Jebusite who were already living on the "promised land", and destroy all their temples? Twice!(Exodus 34, and then again in Deuteronomy 20)
God never told the Hebrews to ethnically-cleanse the Amalekites, right down to "men and women, children and infants, cattle and sheep, camels and donkeys"?(1 Samuel 15:2-3)
God never commanded the Hebrews to attack the Midianites, including the children, and to take any virgins as prisoners of war whom they could rape?(Numbers 31:17-18)
And of course let's not forget the grand finale of global genocide which was the flood in Genesis. That never happened?(Genesis 7)
There are more examples too, let me know if you want a complete list.
Why do you quote what you like and ignore the rest?
Jesus never said anything that you quote above. On the contrary he preached Love. He even said "Love your enemies". Which is the direct opposite of what you say above.
You have also ignored what Jesus preached in Matthew 5 which I have quoted to you, from which you quoted only one verse to suit yourself.
Christians are supposed to follow Jesus, not the Old Testament. That is why it is called the New Testament, because Jesus re-defined everything.
Without Jesus' teaching and new message of hope from His Father the Bible would make no sense.
That is why Christians bear his name, and no one else.

About Hitler you are also wrong. His closest friends in the Nazi party all said that Hitler was an atheist and wanted to destroy Christianity.
I suggest, again, that you go back and see the discussion about this earlier on this topic.

“Credulity is not a virtue”

Since: Apr 09

San Francisco

#747696 Jun 20, 2014
lightbeamrider wrote:
<quoted text> So? As an atheist what is your beef? Are you claiming objective moral standards? These are objectively wrong in a world without God where men determines these things for any reason they choose? As an atheist why are they wrong? As an atheist who are you to determine what is right and wrong for ancient cultures in far away places? Do you know more about their circumstances than they did?
First you claimed that there was no ethnic cleansing in the Bible, and now that I gave examples you don't care about ethnic cleansing? You'd rather change the subject and talk about atheism? Atheism is skepticism of religion; it does not itself propose any moral code, objective or subjective. But there are many systems of ethics which do not rely on any enforcing deity.

I mean, do you really need the Bible to tell you that, say, raping babies is immoral? Hopefully not. On the other hand, do you think slavery is moral? Because if not, then you figured that out for yourself, not from the Bible, and therefore your morality is already superior to the Bible.
Screw Religion

Phoenix, AZ

#747697 Jun 20, 2014
lightbeamrider wrote:
That is because God did it is a reasonable and historical explanation given all we know and the counter proposal for the beginning makes no sense.
Thanks for once again proving you have the intellectual capacity of a mentally retarded child and incapable of grasping any fact in contradiction to your programming. Gawdunit has never been a reasonable explanation for any scientific matter. All scientific evidence fully support entirely natural origins for the universe and life on earth without any guidance from your imaginary friend necessary, kid.
Cheetah

Hamrun, Malta

#747698 Jun 20, 2014
wilderide wrote:
<quoted text>
It is sad to me that some people are not only content to believe what isn't true, but to proselytize falsity.
How do you know what is true and isn't true? This is just your opinion. And how can you judge others on what they believe or don't believe?
You have your beliefs and so does everyone else.

So you believe that nothing exists in the universe except the material elements that we see.
That when you die, in a few years, that is it, you are extinct for all eternity.
Unless you have different beliefs, but this is what material atheists basically believe.
Isn't it sad that you are going to be snuffed out of existence in a few years time, if not before?

“What are you looking at?”

Since: Jan 08

Albuquerque, NM

#747699 Jun 20, 2014
Cheetah wrote:
<quoted text>
Again you haven't proved anything except your ignorance, delusions, lies and hate.
And all you have provided is demeaning words and insults.

Why don't you post a fair rebuttal to what Hukt stated, instead of posting insults?

You can do this, right?

I asked you to post your citations - you refused or just plain never responded.

IMO - this sounds like you would rather run away from answering than being completely honest and direct when it comes to your hopelessness in a faith you are scared to respond upon.

What are you afraid of?

“What are you looking at?”

Since: Jan 08

Albuquerque, NM

#747700 Jun 20, 2014
wilderide wrote:
<quoted text>
Actually my comment directly refuted what you said. You said we can't judge ancient cultures by moral standards. And I'm asking you why not? If God told those ancient cultures that slavery was fine, shouldn't slavery still be fine today? If it used to be moral to force a rape victim to marry her attacker for the rest of her life, then why isn't that just as valid today?
Why is God's morality so inconsistent? Obviously, it's because contemporary people write the texts to reflect their own moral code.
The "end-all" to all "end-alls" would be....that a so-called "Christian" - if possible - would have to post where "God" specifically states which books/texts are "of His inspiration" and which are not.

Since no one has been able to do this, except by thinking "Paul's" words to Timothy says it all.

Unfortunately, in "Paul's words" - he states "all scriptures are suitable."

So the so-called "Christian" then goes on to try to explain what "scriptures" are referred, but never making the attempt to provide a statement by "God".

Is "Paul" actually a so-called "Christian's" - "God". It appears that way.

“What are you looking at?”

Since: Jan 08

Albuquerque, NM

#747701 Jun 20, 2014
Aura Mytha wrote:
<quoted text>
...... is their trying to hijack all human values by proclaiming them coming from somewhere other than us humans in the first place.
Hmmmm.....I wonder if these human values actually originated with ET?

:o)

“Credulity is not a virtue”

Since: Apr 09

San Francisco

#747702 Jun 20, 2014
Cheetah wrote:
<quoted text>
Why do you quote what you like and ignore the rest?
I was specifically talking about ethnic cleansing in the Bible, so I referenced just those parts that pertained. Why do you just quote nice fluffy things that Jesus is quoted as saying and ignore all the morally reprehensible parts?
Jesus never said anything that you quote above. On the contrary he preached Love. He even said "Love your enemies". Which is the direct opposite of what you say above.
Well, that's just one more illogical Biblical contradiction, isn't it? Jesus didn't come to refute anything from the Hebrew Bible. He was in fact supposed to be it's ultimate representative.

So since Jesus contradicts all the ethnic cleansing in the Hebrew Bible, should we toss the OT away as irrelevant? What do you suggest?

“Credulity is not a virtue”

Since: Apr 09

San Francisco

#747703 Jun 20, 2014
Cheetah wrote:
<quoted text>
How do you know what is true and isn't true? This is just your opinion. And how can you judge others on what they believe or don't believe?
Are you suggesting that Hinduism or the Greek and Roman gods are just as likely to be true as your god? Who are you to pick which one is true and which isn't?

I decide what is likely to be true or false based on objective evidence. What criteria do you use? Faith?

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