Prove there's a god.

Since: Feb 14

Location hidden

#699075 Mar 5, 2014
sweets2360 wrote:
<quoted text>
And she already had her own country, the land of Nod, and there were all these other hoards of people who were supposed not to kill him because of that mark god put on him?
Isn't Nod, the land of wandering? Wasn't Cain the founder of the Canaanites? One of the peoples God commanded to be wiped out?

“The Bible is no science book”

Since: Jan 08

Location hidden

#699076 Mar 5, 2014
andet1987 wrote:
<quoted text>
well, then take a good look at the video I sent you. how come the boy got well ? fantasy ? no way Josefina. it is a reality.
how come a very small chapel in my country in Asia became a huge cathedral since many foreigners got healed when they visited that chapel? a lot of foreigners contributed lots of money to make that little chapel into a huge cathedral. how come ?
there is nothing fantasy about God's healing power TheWordOfMe.
The number one test of healing is.......Did one amputee get a limb to regrow?.....Other illnesses can be temporarily healed through your own mind and belief. Most people healed by people like Benny Hinn and others, will have a recurrence of all those symptoms after going home. Its amazing what a shot of adrenalin can do for pain and suffering.

“Life may be sweeter for this”

Since: Nov 08

Fennario

#699077 Mar 5, 2014
scaritual wrote:
The character didn't fulfill Judaic prophetic requirements.
tricki wrote:
For example
Let the Jews tell you about the messiah themselves. After all, it's their messiah. From "Why Don’t Jews Believe In Jesus" http://www.simpletoremember.com/articles/a/je...

"Where does the Jewish concept of Messiah come from? One of the central themes of Biblical prophecy is the promise of a future age of perfection characterized by universal peace and recognition of God ...We will recognize the Messiah by seeing who the King of Israel is at the time of complete universal perfection."

Obviously, such a time has never come, certainly not in Jesus' time.

The messiah, the Jews were told, would be a human being called Immanuel (Isaiah 7:14), not a god, demi-god or other supernatural being, and not called Jesus.

He would be a king and a great political leader descended from King David (Jeremiah 23:5), a great military leader who would win battles for Israel, and a great judge who would make righteous decisions (Jeremiah 33:15).

Isaiah 2:2-4; 11:10; 42:1 tells us that the messiah will establish the center of all world government - both for Jews and gentiles - in Israel. Ezekiel 37:26-28 also prophesied that the messiah would establish The Third Temple or Sanctuary of the "Lord." Isaiah 43:5-6 says that he (not NATO) would triumphantly gather the Jews back to Israel.

Zechariah 14:9 said that "God will be King over all the world, on that day, God will be One and His Name will be One." In Isaiah 2:4, the Jews were told that "Nation shall not lift up sword against nation, neither shall man learn war anymore" when the messiah comes.

Once again, that time has never come.

In summary, Jesus was never the king of Israel nor a great military leader, is not known to be a descendent of David, contradicted the Torah, wasn't named Immanuel, and did not achieve perfection on earth as described above during his lifetime.

Furthermore, the Jews reject polytheism / trinitarianism and the idea of god as man, They reject Christian claims that the messiah would be born of a virgin, executed as a criminal, be a suffering servant, or return after death. The Jewish messiah is triumphant, not a spat upon whipping boy.

“I started out with nothing”

Since: Nov 10

and still got most of it left

#699078 Mar 5, 2014
tricki wrote:
Nothing presented here proves God isn't. Just the opposite. Of all the posts ever presented here, not one proves God is not
And no one in 4000 years (or longer depending on which god you select) has ever proved any gods exist

“I started out with nothing”

Since: Nov 10

and still got most of it left

#699079 Mar 5, 2014
pusherman_ wrote:
<quoted text> At exactly the right time for what? what about the lack of them around the globe?
Not around the globe however glaciation causes a cooling in global temperature, less convivial for both temperate and tropical animals. This means both a reduction in animals and a shifting of habitat which in turn means different and/or less animals to leave fossils. I do not understand you logic in denying logic.

“The eye has it...”

Since: May 09

Russell's Teapot

#699080 Mar 5, 2014
tricki wrote:
<quoted text>
For example
Within Judaism. The Judaic deity is defined as one complete and singular entity(within that mythology, if that means anything). It's very clear in the OT/Tanakh, that there is no plurality of the deity in any way. Read Deut. 6:4. There are many other examples besides that one.

When you get to the prophecies concerning the "Messiah", or, "Mashiach", take notice there are no half man/half god qualities assigned to that person. Below are some of the verses that are specific to what the Judaic "Messiah" was to be and do.

Ezekiel 38:16) Isaiah 2, 11, 42; 59:20) Jeremiah 23, 30, 33; 48:47; 49:39) Daniel 10:14) Hosea 3:4-3:5) Micah 4) Zephaniah 3:9) Zechariah 14:9) Those verses represent what that Mashiach would do. All signs of the Messiah.

Which is why the Jews rejected the Jesus. It didn't happen. The fact that the Jesus was killed before complete fulfillment of messianic prophecy is a proof in and of itself the Jesus was a false "Messiah".

According to the mythology the "Mashiach" was 100% human and mortal. Judaism says that the Messiah will be born of human parents(maternal&paternal) , and possess normal physical attributes like other people. It will not be a demi-god, and will not possess supernatural qualities.

All of the tasks to be done by "Messiah" were to be completed during the lifetime of that person. Once revealed. While here. First time. One time. Only time. There was no "second coming" involved according to OT messianic prophecy.

Christians cite other portions of the OT with tortured, massaged and tweaked interpretations as Messianic prophecies. Just because Christianity claims this as prophecy doesn't make them OT Messianic prophecies. No matter how vehemently Christians may claim them to be.

Jews are the experts concerning their book. There is a reason the Jesus wasn't accepted as Messiah, and it wasn't because the Jews were being stubborn. If the Jesus had met the prophetic requirements the Jews would have had no choice but to accept the Jesus. Judaism is very clear about this.

They must recognize fulfilled prophecy. This is also why their "god" was very specific. Unless a prophecy is 100% fulfilled, it is a false prophecy, or made by a false prophet. The Jesus was both.

A false messiah(did not fulfill prophecy as described), and a false prophet.

"But the prophet who shall speak a word presumptuously in My name which I have not commanded him to speak, or which he shall speak in the name of other gods, that prophet shall die. And you may say in your heart,“How shall we know the word which the Lord has not spoken?”...

...When a prophet speaks in the name of the Lord, if the thing does not come about or come true, that is the thing which the Lord has not spoken. The prophet has spoken it presumptuously; you shall not be afraid of him (Deuteronomy 18:20-22).

^^^The^^^Jesus^^^fails^^^accor ding^^^to^^^that^^^. Matthew, chapter 24, evidences this quite well.

The Jesus was rejected as the messiah for legitimate reason. Deuteronomy 13:1-5, also illustrates why the Jesus wasn't "Messiah". There are numerous examples that spell out plainly that the, "Messiah", or Mashiach, was not to alter the Judaic religion in any way, not for Jews, nor Gentiles.

The oldest extant Judaic texts date to about 200 BCE, so there was no revision or altering done to those prophecies at least after that date.

That negates any claims of revisionism.

Since: Feb 14

Location hidden

#699081 Mar 5, 2014
It aint necessarily so wrote:
<quoted text>
<quoted text>
Let the Jews tell you about the messiah themselves. After all, it's their messiah. From "Why Don’t Jews Believe In Jesus" http://www.simpletoremember.com/articles/a/je...
"Where does the Jewish concept of Messiah come from? One of the central themes of Biblical prophecy is the promise of a future age of perfection characterized by universal peace and recognition of God ...We will recognize the Messiah by seeing who the King of Israel is at the time of complete universal perfection."
Obviously, such a time has never come, certainly not in Jesus' time.
The messiah, the Jews were told, would be a human being called Immanuel (Isaiah 7:14), not a god, demi-god or other supernatural being, and not called Jesus.
He would be a king and a great political leader descended from King David (Jeremiah 23:5), a great military leader who would win battles for Israel, and a great judge who would make righteous decisions (Jeremiah 33:15).
Isaiah 2:2-4; 11:10; 42:1 tells us that the messiah will establish the center of all world government - both for Jews and gentiles - in Israel. Ezekiel 37:26-28 also prophesied that the messiah would establish The Third Temple or Sanctuary of the "Lord." Isaiah 43:5-6 says that he (not NATO) would triumphantly gather the Jews back to Israel.
Zechariah 14:9 said that "God will be King over all the world, on that day, God will be One and His Name will be One." In Isaiah 2:4, the Jews were told that "Nation shall not lift up sword against nation, neither shall man learn war anymore" when the messiah comes.
Once again, that time has never come.
In summary, Jesus was never the king of Israel nor a great military leader, is not known to be a descendent of David, contradicted the Torah, wasn't named Immanuel, and did not achieve perfection on earth as described above during his lifetime.
Furthermore, the Jews reject polytheism / trinitarianism and the idea of god as man, They reject Christian claims that the messiah would be born of a virgin, executed as a criminal, be a suffering servant, or return after death. The Jewish messiah is triumphant, not a spat upon whipping boy.
HaHaHa!

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Immanuel

Jesus tells the Pharisees.. The very pages that you find life in, Speak of Me

He is claiming to be the fulfiller of prophecy, which i know a claim doesn't make it so.

The High Priest that sprinkles the blood on the Ark Of The Covenant chanted while doing that, do you know what he was saying?

“I started out with nothing”

Since: Nov 10

and still got most of it left

#699082 Mar 5, 2014
Aura Mytha wrote:
<quoted text>
Actually it doesn't mean that either, what it means is that evolution drives changes in in the physiology of animals. It's thought dark skin evolved from a lighter skin when the hominids lost body hair and moved from the forest to the savanna's . But we don't know for certain we only know the characteristics of human skin subjected to climatic changes.
One thing that we see that is confusing about skin and hair pigments is the bear.
While polar bears are white, they have black skin, and black bears ...have white skin.
I do know all but the lightest complexions will darken from exposure from the sun.
Yes, and environment is what drives that change

As far as the human is concerned how far do we need to go back 0.2 (or so) million years skin was dark as an environmental response to the southern African sun on a “relatively” hairless body. Humanity arose from these begins as is shown with Mitochondrial Eve and Y Adam

Go back further, 3 million year old Australopithecus and you are moving back to lightly pigmented skin

Where does human evolution begin?

Since: Feb 14

Location hidden

#699083 Mar 5, 2014
ChristineM wrote:
<quoted text>
Not around the globe however glaciation causes a cooling in global temperature, less convivial for both temperate and tropical animals. This means both a reduction in animals and a shifting of habitat which in turn means different and/or less animals to leave fossils. I do not understand you logic in denying logic.
Sometimes, I do not understand it myself...
Enlightened

Gallatin, TN

#699084 Mar 5, 2014
It aint necessarily so wrote:
Your miracle doesn't pass the sniff test.
The sniff test eh? Sounds real scientific.

You probably noticed that no one else is really responding to anything you or I say. It's the beta crowd easing their way out of the conversation as it slowly dawns on the that they don't really want to argue with either one of us.

There's a fatal flaw in your chain of reasoning, Aint.

It fails to account for the unknown.

The things mankind doesn't know outnumber the things he does know by a factor of infinity. We are self-destructive, oxygen-dependent life forms, trapped on our medium-sized planet in the middle of nowhere because we lack the ability to leave it for very long.

We know quite a bit about our immediate surroundings, and we possess a degree of deductive reasoning, which allows us to posit theories about what we can see in the sky if we magnify it a bit.

We can do math. Some of us can do it well enough to apply it to the underlying functionality of our entire space-time continuum.

But let's be frank about our limitations. There are numerous diseases we can't cure. We can't fathom the concepts of infinity or eternity. We are barely able to define cognizance and self-awareness. We can't get along with each other, ever. Our science is not very impressive when you consider the fact that the vast majority of our theories are ultimately disproved. We are patently doomed by the inevitability of exponential population growth. And we really aren't very good at hitting a baseball - most of us would strike out every single time versus major league pitching, even though the math of hitting the ball is quite simple.

We do seem to be making some progress, in some areas, while falling back in other much more important ones.

Yet you would define our tiny sliver of (quite possibly very wrong) knowledge as a prophetic miracle?

Sorry Aint, you lack perspective.

We know nothing. From a cosmic perspective, we ARE nothing. Any single thing you think you "know" could easily be proven hilariously wrong by close of business today. Happens ALL THE TIME. There is no such thing as a "fact" for mankind.

So for you to arbitrarily dismiss the very real possibility that there is a spiritual world that transcends, encompasses, or runs parallel to this one, is merely childish.

"I can't see it, so it doesn't exist. It doesn't fit (insert laughably-primitive-or-ultimat ely-disproved-50-years-from-no w scientific theory here), so it can't be true. I can't relate to it, so it isn't real."

That, if you will admit it or not, is the full sum of your argument against God.

Now, if you want to argue with fundie creationists, go right ahead. If you want to debate the relative merits of ancient fairy tales, you'll find plenty of people right here ITT who will defend them all to the death. These people are called morons. Do you really want to be King of the Morons, Aint?

But if you want to talk about God - the real God, First Cause, the Singularity, coincidences that are too amazing to be coincidences, and the inevitability of Armageddon, I'm your man.

First though, you're going to have to give me something. I'm not gonna waste much time debating some naive sub-intellectual who thinks mankind has got it all figured out with science, or that some tattered collection of ancient manuscripts is somehow the proverbial "Word of God.".

You're better than that, Aint. Let's REALLY talk. Tell me how far you're prepared to go here. Because so far, it looks like you stop at demanding total disbelief of anything that can't be irrefutably proven.

I'm telling you that absolutely nothing can be irrefutably proven. But God can at least be demonstrated by a preponderance of evidence.

Lemme know.

“Life may be sweeter for this”

Since: Nov 08

Fennario

#699085 Mar 5, 2014
tricki wrote:
For example
Now you have two unbelievers giving you detailed and sourced lessons on your bible. Why don't you know these things? You supposedly care about them. We don't.

But we used to - both of us. Scaritual and I are both former Christians that actually took our faith seriously enough to study it in depth. I would warn anybody who wishes to remain a believer to not do that. Education and reason are the enemies of faith.

“The Edge”

Since: Dec 10

Of Tomorow

#699086 Mar 5, 2014
ChristineM wrote:
<quoted text>
Yes, and environment is what drives that change
As far as the human is concerned how far do we need to go back 0.2 (or so) million years skin was dark as an environmental response to the southern African sun on a “relatively” hairless body. Humanity arose from these begins as is shown with Mitochondrial Eve and Y Adam
Go back further, 3 million year old Australopithecus and you are moving back to lightly pigmented skin
Where does human evolution begin?
That's a tough question.

Since: Feb 14

Location hidden

#699087 Mar 5, 2014
ChristineM wrote:
<quoted text>
Yes, and environment is what drives that change
As far as the human is concerned how far do we need to go back 0.2 (or so) million years skin was dark as an environmental response to the southern African sun on a “relatively” hairless body. Humanity arose from these begins as is shown with Mitochondrial Eve and Y Adam
Go back further, 3 million year old Australopithecus and you are moving back to lightly pigmented skin
Where does human evolution begin?
But what about that woman, miller i think was her name, that discovered that site in mexico with carvings and stuff they say was dated to like 250,000 years old? some guy found the first one but her team came in and excavated the site? how is that explained?

“I started out with nothing”

Since: Nov 10

and still got most of it left

#699088 Mar 5, 2014
virtuanna wrote:
<quoted text>YOU...
http://plato.stanford.edu/entries/equivME/
...are fooking retarded!
It cracks me up how none of your buddies ever correct you. Prolly because you know where they live....eeek!
Oh such nice godbot hatred but thank you for that which confirms my point precisely.

Notice the difference between the E-MC^2 equation on the link you supplied and this one for general relativity
http://www.bibliotecapleyades.net/esp_2012_19...
( http://www.bibliotecapleyades.net/imagenes_ci... )

and this one (of many) for special relativity
http://voyager.egglescliffe.org.uk/physics/re...

I realise the difference between and and but is difficult for you but that’s just taught

Honey, you consider threats as your way of life but please good enough not to impose you sick minded attitude on me.

“I started out with nothing”

Since: Nov 10

and still got most of it left

#699089 Mar 5, 2014
Divinity Surgeon wrote:
<quoted text>
It says a lot about the complete lack of a coherent argument.
Clearly, you are far more intelligent than most, even with a disability. Fecking mouth breathers.
Thank you my dear, much appreciated.

“I started out with nothing”

Since: Nov 10

and still got most of it left

#699090 Mar 5, 2014
tricki wrote:
ChristineM wrote:
<quoted text>
Oh honey, you just had to didn’t you? I had assumed you were not one of the typical godbot hate merchants and yet you blow it so easily and disappoint me. The very reason I am no longer christian is because of fookwit statement like that.
why refuse to answer? not one FOG has ever had a positive word about Christ.
just slightly fixed Dorothy. you can't trash Christ non-stop. you over do it.
and you can't praise the garbage you vomit by faking more reviewers than have bought your junk and expect it to seem genuine. what kind of a con-woman are you?
Oh honey, why do you project so wantonly? When you first showed your ugly mug on this thread you made 2 lying statements that I showed to be total bollocks and you have not once come back with a valid response.

I do not answer to cherry picking morons, when you provide a real question then I will, if I am able answer, until then you seem to be snorting too much yellow brick road dust and it’s rotting your brain.

I have no intention of trashing christianity, if it is not strong enough to stand up for itself on it’s own merits then it’s already thrown itself in the bin.

However lying, moronic deliberately ignorant gobots are another matter.

Since: Feb 14

Location hidden

#699091 Mar 5, 2014
Enlightened wrote:
<quoted text>
The sniff test eh? Sounds real scientific.
You probably noticed that no one else is really responding to anything you or I say. It's the beta crowd easing their way out of the conversation as it slowly dawns on the that they don't really want to argue with either one of us.
There's a fatal flaw in your chain of reasoning, Aint.
It fails to account for the unknown.
The things mankind doesn't know outnumber the things he does know by a factor of infinity. We are self-destructive, oxygen-dependent life forms, trapped on our medium-sized planet in the middle of nowhere because we lack the ability to leave it for very long.
We know quite a bit about our immediate surroundings, and we possess a degree of deductive reasoning, which allows us to posit theories about what we can see in the sky if we magnify it a bit.
We can do math. Some of us can do it well enough to apply it to the underlying functionality of our entire space-time continuum.
But let's be frank about our limitations. There are numerous diseases we can't cure. We can't fathom the concepts of infinity or eternity. We are barely able to define cognizance and self-awareness. We can't get along with each other, ever. Our science is not very impressive when you consider the fact that the vast majority of our theories are ultimately disproved. We are patently doomed by the inevitability of exponential population growth. And we really aren't very good at hitting a baseball - most of us would strike out every single time versus major league pitching, even though the math of hitting the ball is quite simple.
We do seem to be making some progress, in some areas, while falling back in other much more important ones.
Yet you would define our tiny sliver of (quite possibly very wrong) knowledge as a prophetic miracle?
Sorry Aint, you lack perspective.
We know nothing. From a cosmic perspective, we ARE nothing. Any single thing you think you "know" could easily be proven hilariously wrong by close of business today. Happens ALL THE TIME. There is no such thing as a "fact" for mankind.
So for you to arbitrarily dismiss the very real possibility that there is a spiritual world that transcends, encompasses, or runs parallel to this one, is merely childish.
"I can't see it, so it doesn't exist. It doesn't fit (insert laughably-primitive-or-ultimat ely-disproved-50-years-from-no w scientific theory here), so it can't be true. I can't relate to it, so it isn't real."
That, if you will admit it or not, is the full sum of your argument against God.
Now, if you want to argue with fundie creationists, go right ahead. If you want to debate the relative merits of ancient fairy tales, you'll find plenty of people right here ITT who will defend them all to the death. These people are called morons. Do you really want to be King of the Morons, Aint?
But if you want to talk about God - the real God, First Cause, the Singularity, coincidences that are too amazing to be coincidences, and the inevitability of Armageddon, I'm your man.
First though, you're going to have to give me something. I'm not gonna waste much time debating some naive sub-intellectual who thinks mankind has got it all figured out with science, or that some tattered collection of ancient manuscripts is somehow the proverbial "Word of God.".
You're better than that, Aint. Let's REALLY talk. Tell me how far you're prepared to go here. Because so far, it looks like you stop at demanding total disbelief of anything that can't be irrefutably proven.
I'm telling you that absolutely nothing can be irrefutably proven. But God can at least be demonstrated by a preponderance of evidence.
Lemme know.
We're not responding because according to you, we're sub-intellect, we wouldn't want to Intervene with our lack of knowledge, in a Bible you don't believe in, you're a fkn hypocrite! To me personally, your spewing out the mouth means shyt! I know that doesn't mean anything to you and I don't care!

“I started out with nothing”

Since: Nov 10

and still got most of it left

#699092 Mar 5, 2014
tricki wrote:
<quoted text>
No. My error. I was trying to combine what you said with what Christine lied about. Christine was asked to explain her statement she was a Christian.
I agree with you that Hitler was a punk
I do not lie, I was asked to give you the answer you wanted that was totally irrelevant and taken out of context and lied about to a question I had already answered. You have already had your answer, the real one, the one that fooks up your sensibilities, you don’t like it then that’s just tough.

As for Hitler, good christian who had Vatican backing but non the less (as you so neatly put it) a punk

“I started out with nothing”

Since: Nov 10

and still got most of it left

#699093 Mar 5, 2014
pusherman_ wrote:
<quoted text> He!! Yeah, Mickey Mouse needed stepped on, FKN Rodent! ChristineM said she used to be a Christian, So yeah, Then to her, there was a God and that statement was applied to that, that's where the he!! I get the idea! before you make a blind @$$ comment, maybe you should know a little about the rest of the story which lead to that! don't ya think?
You are applying your imagination to me,

To me, I had the blind, childish faith there was a god, that in no way implies there was a god but just like all other christians who are blinded by childish indoctrination, I had faith

Perhaps unlike you I was able, even at an early age to differentiate between belief and fact.

“I started out with nothing”

Since: Nov 10

and still got most of it left

#699094 Mar 5, 2014
pusherman_ wrote:
<quoted text> Sometimes, I do not understand it myself...
Yeah well. It does explain a lot

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