Prove there's a god.

Since: Feb 09

Location hidden

#677454 Dec 6, 2013
ChristineM wrote:
<quoted text>
Maybe he loves them for breakfast, on toast with a cup of coffee
Maybe!

"And ye shall eat the flesh of your sons, and the flesh of your daughters shall ye eat" (Lev. 26:29) and
"I will cause them to eat the flesh of their sons and the flesh of their daughters, and they shall eat every one the flesh of his friend...." (Jer. 19:9) and
"I will make your oppressors eat their own flesh, and they shall be drunk with their own blood as with wine" (Isa. 49:26 RSV) and
"Therefore fathers shall eat their sons in the midst of you, and sons shall eat their fathers...." (Ezek. 5:10).

RR must have a real love in his heart to read this to his Children on Sunday mornings.

Since: Feb 09

Location hidden

#677455 Dec 6, 2013
waaasssuuup wrote:
<quoted text>
sigh....yet another response talking about "evidence", proof, education...etc, but providing NOTHING!
how long, oh Lord, must we tolerate this insolence?! please come quickly.....
Jesus died 2,000 years ago. He is not going to return. But if he ever existed and he did return what makes you think he would have anything to do with you?

Jesus left you clear commands and you told Jesus to fuck off when you decided to refuse to obey them.

a true follower of Jesus would have to be extremely poor--as poor as the proverbial churchmouse. The Bible makes this quite clear:

"...none of you can be my disciple unless he gives up everything he has" Luke 14:33
"If you want to be perfect, go and sell all you have and give the money to the poor and you will have riches in heaven" Matt. 19:21
"Sell your possessions and give alms" Luke 12:33
"But give what is in your cups and plates to the poor, and everything will be clean for you" Luke 11:41
"Lay not up for yourselves treasures upon earth, where moth and rust doth corrupt,.... But lay up for yourselves treasures in heaven.... for where your treasure is, there will your heart be also" Matt. 6:19-21
"How hardly shall they that have riches enter to the kingdom of God" Mark 10:23
"Truly, I say to you, it will be hard for a rich man to enter the kingdom of heaven. Again I tell you, it is easier for a camel to go through the eye of a needle than for a rich man to enter the kingdom of God" Matt. 19:23-24
A certain ruler told Jesus that he had obeyed all the commandments from his youth up. But, Jesus said, "Yet lackest thou one thing: sell all that thou hast, and distribute unto the poor, and thou shalt have treasure in heaven: and come, follow me" Luke 18:22, Mark 10:21

Because you do not keep Jesus' commandments you clearly hate him.

John 14:15 KJV, "If ye love me, keep my commandments."

RiversideRedneck

“Ditat Deus”

Since: Jul 12

Location hidden

#677456 Dec 6, 2013
timn17 wrote:
<quoted text>There is one huge difference, and you are either missing it because you are being dishonest or because you are so dedicated to your cause that you are capable of easily deceiving yourself.
Jesus is claimed to be a god. None of those other men are. An entire religion does not depend on the life of plato. The alleged salvation of billions of souls does not depend on socrates. None of these other men would have had the capability to make their existence known to history with a snap of their fingers. I can easily think of many reasons why the jesus character might have been manufactured, intentionally or unintentionally. There is no way to differentiate your jesus from other psuedo historical god-men. In short, when we are dealing with such an extraordinary claim, we require extraordinary proof.
Yes but people like you & scar don't believe Jesus was a god of any kind.

So the debate is not whether or not He was a god, but was His existence real?

It's very hypocritical to sit there and say that Plato was real because historians say then turn around and disagree with the same historians about Jesus.

Since: Feb 09

Location hidden

#677457 Dec 6, 2013
waaasssuuup wrote:
<quoted text>
lol - you go dude!
can we be friends? something tells me that we could get along well outside of this context:)
I doubt it. It is probably the Holy Spirit telling you we could get along and we all know what a liar the Holy Spirit is.

When are you going to obey what Jesus commands of you?

RiversideRedneck

“Ditat Deus”

Since: Jul 12

Location hidden

#677458 Dec 6, 2013
scaritual wrote:
*See previous post above*
No.

Since: Feb 09

Location hidden

#677459 Dec 6, 2013
waaasssuuup wrote:
<quoted text>
we know from scripture that ...
We know from Scripture that no one can see God at any time and live.

We know from Scripture that Jacob saw God and his life was preserved.

We know from Scripture that Scripture can not be trusted because it is contradictory. The fact that you can not acknowledge this fact proves that Christianity has done something terrible to you, something really really terrible.

John 1:18 "No man hath seen God at any time;..."
Exodus 33:20, And he said, Thou canst not see my face: for there shall no man see me, and live.
John 6:46 "Not that any man hath seen the Father, save he which is of God, he hath seen the Father."
1 John 4:12 "No man hath seen God at any time. If we love one another, God dwelleth in us, and his love is perfected in us."

Versus

Gen. 32:30 "And Jacob called the name of the place Peniel: for I have seen God face to face, and my life is preserved."
Exod. 33:11 "And the LORD spake unto Moses face to face, as a man speaketh unto his friend."
Num. 14:14 "...that thou LORD art seen face to face,..."
Job 42:5 "I have heard of thee by the hearing of the ear: but now mine eye seeth thee."
Deut. 34:10 "And there arose not a prophet since in Israel like unto Moses, whom the LORD knew face to face,..."
Deut. 5:4 "The LORD talked with you face to face...."

Since: Sep 08

Rocky Ford, CO

#677460 Dec 6, 2013
Reverend Alan wrote:
<quoted text>
Christians never get lost Dave because each of them has the Holy Spirit in them guiding them. This is why all Christians are in total 100% agreement with one another.
Alan, your spirituality bears a striking resemblance to a derelict drunk laying on a dark, wet, and cold street having convulsions.
Me Myself and I

Abington, PA

#677462 Dec 6, 2013
darksoul wrote:
<quoted text>prove there's not!! don't come off with a bunch of $#!t, just prove there's not!! all them people that are digging for answer's out in the middle of nowhere are gonna come across something 1 day and it's gonna be like oh $#!t!!! when madaline ohare got killed, you know the prez of that atheist thing in texas, the judge ask david water's, the guy that killed her and her son and his daughter, did she have any last word's, he said she said, oh GOD please forgive me! the GOD she was referring to is open but i think you and i know the 1 she was talking to!!
Prove I am not God.

I do more in single day than your invisible man has in over 1700 years.

Since: Feb 09

Location hidden

#677463 Dec 6, 2013
waaasssuuup wrote:
<quoted text>
Al - yes, Jesus was the only perfect Person/Christian and that's why His sacrifice makes us Christian!
stop being stupid and fighting it and just jump on board and chillax with us:)
The Bible, itself, independent of outside sources, provides more than enough data to prove Jesus is not worthy of the emulation accorded him by millions. The following statements by Jesus are noteworthy:

(1) " And Jesus said,'Go to the city to such a man, and say unto him, The Master saith, My time is at hand; I will keep the passover at thy house with my disciples"(Matt. 26:18). Jesus should have displayed better manners. You don't invite yourself into someone's home. First you receive an invitation.

(2) "And I say unto you my friends, Be not afraid of them that kill the body, and after that have no more that they can do" (Luke12:4). Jesus advised others to show courage when threatened, but often backed down, fled, escaped, or hid when faced with similar situations. "After these things Jesus walked in Galilee: for he would not walk in Jewry, because the Jews sought to kill him" (John 7:1) and "Then they took up stones to cast at him: but Jesus hid himself, and went out of the temple, going through the midst of them, and passed by" (John 8:59) and "Then the Pharisees went out, and held council against him, how they might destroy him. But when Jesus knew it, he withdrew himself from thence: and great multitudes followed him, and he healed them all; and charged them that they should not make him known..." (Matt. 12:14-16) and "Then from that day forth they took counsel together for to put him to death. Jesus therefore walked no more openly among the Jews..." (John 11:53-54) and "Therefore they sought again to take him: but he escaped out of their land..." (John 10:39) and "...Jesus could no more openly enter into the city, but was without in desert places: and they came to him from every quarter" (Mark 1:45).(See also:John 6:15). Jesus not only fled but advised others to follow his example. "But when they persecute you in this city, flee ye into another" (Matt. 10:23). He apparently felt discretion was the better part of valor. Bravery was not one of his strongest attributes.

(3)"...but if thou wilt enter into life, keep the commandments.... Thou shalt love thy neighbor as thyself" (Matt. 19:17,19) and "the second (great commandment) is like unto it. Thou shalt love thy neighbor as thyself" (Matt. 22:39) versus "A new commandment I give to you, That ye love one another; as I have loved you, that ye also love one another" (John 13:34). If loving thy neighbor as thyself was an OT commandment, how could it be a new commandment?

(4) "Take my yoke upon you, and learn of me; ...and ye shall find rest unto your souls. For my yoke is easy, and my burden is light" (Matt. 11:29-30) versus "But beware of men: for they will deliver you up to the councils, and they will scourge you in their synagoges; and ye shall be brought before governors and kings for my sake..." (Matt. 10:17-18) and "ye shall be hated of all men for my name's sake:...But when they persecute you in this city, flee ye to another,,,"(Matt. 10:22-23) and ye shall be hated of all men for my name"s sake" (Luke 21:17) and "In the world ye shall have tribulation" (John 16:33). Being scourged, hated, and persecuted does not sound like a "light" and "easy" burden.

(5) "I am the root and the offspring of David, and the bright and morning star" (Rev. 22:16). The genealogies in Matt. 1 and Luke 3 trace Jesus' descent from David to Joseph. If Jesus came from a virgin birth, then Joseph was not his physical father and he could not be a physical descendant of David. As mentioned in the June 1983 issue, Mary's lineage is not even discussed.

Since: Sep 08

Rocky Ford, CO

#677464 Dec 6, 2013
http://www.cnn.com/2013/12/05/us/crocodile-lu...

Gators use tools.

Mac, don't dangle your foot over your kayak around sticks.

Read about that kayaker that lost his foot to a shark and bled to death in Hawaii. A gator will pull you in and have lunch. Will be very difficult to pull your 357 out at that point. But you will get your revenge when it chomps your head and breaks its teeth. Will inconvenience it for a while. Will have to leave your carcass stashed somewhere to tenderize.

Get a jonboat.

Since: Feb 09

Location hidden

#677465 Dec 6, 2013
waaasssuuup wrote:
<quoted text>
lol! just because the horesman of deception was unleashed about the turn of the 20th century and the 'educational' system adopted gaytheism in lieu of Creationism doesn't mean EVERYONE has been gullible enough to swallow it hook-line-and-sinker, pal;-)
Just look at what you are gullible enough to swallow!

(6) "For I am with thee (Paul) and no man shall set on thee to hurt thee" (Acts 18:10) versus "...and when they saw the chief captain and the soldiers, they left beating of Paul" (Acts 21-32) and "And the high priest Ananias commanded them that stood by him to smite him on the mouth" (Acts 23:2) and "...I (Paul) am more; in labours more abundant, in stripes above measure, in prisons more frequent, in deaths oft. Of the Jews five times received I forty stripes save one. Thrice was I beaten with rods, once was I stoned..."(2 Cor. 11:23-25). Is Jesus the kind of friend one can trust?

(7) "And I say unto you, Make to yourselves friends of the mammon of unrighteousness..." (Luke 16:9) versus "Ye cannot serve God and mammon" (Luke 16:13).

(8) "How much then is a man better than a sheep?" (Matt. 12:12) versus "...and I lay down my life for the sheep" (John 10:15) and "I am the sheperd, and know my sheep" (John 10:14) and "Feed my lambs" (John 21:15) and "Feed my sheep" (John 21:16).(See also: John 10:11,26,27 Matt. 10:16 and Mark 6:34). Jesus says men are better than sheep, yet repeatedly calls his followers sheep.

(9) " If I bear witness of myself, my witness is not true" (John 5:31) versus "Though I bear witness of myself, yet my record is true" (John 8:14).

(10) "Let your light so shine before men, that they may see your good works" (Matt. 5:16) versus "Take heed that ye do not your alms before men to be seen of them: otherwise ye have no reward of your father which is in heaven" (Matt. 6:1).

(11) "...that upon you may come all the righteous blood shed on the earth from the blood of innocent Abel to the blood of Zechariah the son of Barachiah whom you murdered between the sanctuary and the altar" (Matt. 23:35 RSV) versus "the spirit of God took possession of Zechariah the son of Jehoida the priest, and he stood above the people,... they conspired against him, and... stoned him with stones..."(2 Chron. 24:20-21 RSV). As the latter verses show, Zechariah was the son of Jehoida, not Barachiah. The name Barachiah is nowhere to be found in the OT.

(12) "Ye have heard that it hath been said, Thou shalt love thy neighbor, and hate thine enemy" (Matt. 5:43). This statement does not exist in the OT either. In fact, Prov. 24:17 says, "Rejoice not when thine enemy falleth, and let not thine heart be glad when he stumbleth..."

(13) "And he saith unto them, Whosoever shall put away his wife, and marry another, committeth adultery against her" (Mark 10:11, Luke 6:18), versus "And I say unto you, Whosoever shall put away his wife, except it be for fornication, and shall marry another, committeth adultery" (Matt. 19:9). In the book of Matthew, Jesus said a man could put away his wife if one factor--fornication--is involved. In Mark and Luke he allowed no exceptions.

(14) "I am with you always, even unto the end of the world" (Matt. 28:20), versus "For ye have the poor always with you; but me ye have not always" (Matt.26:11), Mark 14:7, John 12:8) and "Ye shall seek me, and shall not find me: and where I am thither ye cannot come" (John 7:34). Is this the kind of friend one can rely on?

(15)"Judge not, and ye shall be not judged; condem not, and ye shall not be condemned: forgive,and ye shall be forgiven" (Luke 6:37, Matt. 7:1), versus "Judge not according to the appearance, but judge righteous judgment" (John 7:24). Jesus stated men are not to judge but, then, allowed it under certain conditions. As in the case of divorce, he can't seem to formulate a consistent policy.

Since: Feb 09

Location hidden

#677466 Dec 6, 2013
(16) "...I say unto you, Except a corn of wheat fall into the ground and die, it abideth alone: but if it die, it bringeth forth much fruit" (John 12:21). Jesus exhibited rather weak comprehension of science. How can the dead produce anything?

(17) "Salt is good: but if the salt have lost his saltness, wherewith will ye season it?" (Mark 9:50). Again, poor science! Indeed, poor logic! How could salt lose its saltness? If it lost its saltness, it would no longer be salt.

(18) "And no man hath ascended up to heaven, but he that came down from heaven, but he that came down from heaven, even the Son of man which is in heaven" (John 3:13). If Jesus is in heaven, how can he be down on earth speaking? Moreover, according to 2 Kings 2:11 ("and Elijah went up by a whirlwind into heaven') Jesus was not the only person to ascend into heaven, nor was he the first. Elijah preceded him and apparently Enoch did also ("And Enoch walked with God: and he was not; for God took him"--Gen. 5:24).

(19) "Then if any man shall say unto you, Lo, here is Christ, or there; believe it not. For there shall arise false Christs, and false prophets, and shall shew great signs and wonders; insomuch that if it were possible, they shall deceive the very elect" (Matt. 24:23-24). Jesus' criteria for false Christs and false prophets could easily be applied to himself. Judging by his standard, how do we know he is genuine?

(20) "My God, my God, why hast thou forsaken me?(Matt.27:46), versus "Now is my soul troubled. And what shall I say?'Father, save me from this hour?' No, for this purpose I have come to this hour" (John 12:27 RSV). Jesus can't seem to decide whether or not he wants to die. One moment he is willing; the next he isn't.

(21) "Why callest thou me good? There is none good but one, that is God" (Matt. 19:17). This obviates any possibility of Jesus being the perfect man, much less God.

Since: Feb 09

Location hidden

#677467 Dec 6, 2013
waaasssuuup wrote:
<quoted text>Jesus was the only perfect Person/Christian and that's why His sacrifice makes us Christian!
JESUS: "Why callest thou me good? There is none good but one, that is God" (Matt. 19:17).

This obviates any possibility of Jesus being the perfect man, much less God.

And what exactly was his sacrifice?

Since: Feb 09

Location hidden

#677468 Dec 6, 2013
waaasssuuup wrote:
<quoted text>
stop being stupid and fighting it and just jump on board and chillax with us:)
Translation: Resistance is futile, you will be assimilated.

ALAN: Resistance is not futile. If we do not resist your assimilation you will eventually get to our children and that must never happen.

Since: Feb 09

Location hidden

#677469 Dec 6, 2013
Aura Mytha wrote:
<quoted text>
Only a truly unknowing, undereducated, brainwashed person could make such an asinine statement.
Exactly! waassuuppp is an unknowing, undereducated, brainwashed person who makes asinine statements.

Since: Feb 09

Location hidden

#677470 Dec 6, 2013
New Age Spiritual Leader wrote:
<quoted text>
Christianity lacks textual criticism, and rebuke those who do use it.
Semantics are not "Christian" friends.
Gullibility and simple-mindedness are Christianities friends.

Since: Feb 09

Location hidden

#677472 Dec 6, 2013
RiversideRedneck: Yes but people like you & scar don't believe Jesus was a god of any kind.

ALAN: How many kinds of gods are there?

RR: So the debate is not whether or not He was a god, but was His existence real?

ALAN: There is no evidence outside the 4 gospel accounts to suggest Jesus ever walked the earth.

RR: It's very hypocritical to sit there and say that Plato was real because historians say then turn around and disagree with the same historians about Jesus.

ALAN: Had you of pondered what you have already been told by 3 different people RR you would not repeated your baseless assertion. There are no historical accounts of Jesus outside the biblical text.

I'll go even further and state that there are is no mention of Jesus in the OT either.

Few OT messianic prophecies carry more weight with apologists than the 7th chapter of Isaiah. Yet, like the 5th chapter of Micah it is not applicable to Jesus for many reasons, which an itemized analysis of each verse will show:

(a) "Behold a virgin shall conceive and bear a son, and shall call his name Immanuel" (Isa. 7:14). In Hebrew this actually reads: "Behold the young woman is with child and bareth a son and calleth his name Immanuel." Christians changed "almah" which means "a young woman" in Hebrew to "virgin." The actual Hebrew word for virgin is "bethulah." Wherever the word "virgin" appears in the KJV of the OT, it comes from "bethulah." Isa. 7:14 and Gen. 24:43 are the only exceptions. Almah means maid, damsel, or a young woman, which is how it is translated in Ex. 2:8, Prov. 30:19 and Psalm 68:25 of the KJV. The RSV and the Jewish Masoretic texts correctly translate Isa. 7:14 as "a young woman." Mistranslators also changed "harah" from its correct meaning of "has concieved" (i.e. is) to "shall conceive." The word "harah" (conceived) is the Hebrew perfect tense, which in English represents past and completed action. There is not the remotest hint of future time. The correct translation, "is with child," is in the present tense and shows it pertains to a woman then existing.

(b) "...and shall call his name Immanuel" (Isa. 7:14). Jesus was never called Immanuel except by those who do so in order to fulfill the prophecy. Never was Jesus referred to as Immanuel in the NT, except in Matt. 1:23 ("and they shall call his name Immanuel"). Nowhere in Isaiah does Isaiah call Immanuel a Messiah or Jesus Christ the son of God or Savior or Holy Redeemer. They are never equated or related in any way. Moreover, according to Luke 1:31 ("And behold, thou shalt conceive in thy womb, and bring forth a son, and shalt call his name JESUS") he was to be called Jesus, not Immanuel.

(c) "Butter and honey shall he eat, that he may know how to refuse the evil and choose the good" (Isa. 7:15). Applying this to Jesus seems irrational. How much sense would it make for Jesus (God) to learn to refuse evil and choose good?

(d) "For before the child shall know to refuse the evil, and choose the good, the land that thou abhorrest shall be forsaken of both her kings" (Isa. 7:16). It would make no sense for Ahaz to be concerned with a sign--the birth of Jesus--that wouldn't be realized until centuries after the death of Ahaz. This verse shows that the prophecy is not referring to a future child, but to a child then conceived, a child then existing, on the way to being born. The reference to the kings of Syria and Israel further shows the verse is referring to a child back then.

Since: Feb 09

Location hidden

#677473 Dec 6, 2013
(e) "And I (Isaiah) got reliable witnesses, Uriah the priest and Zachariah the son of Jeberechiah, to attest for me. And I went to the prophetess and she concieved and bore a son. Then the Lord said to me, Call his name Maher-shalal-hashbaz; for before the child knows how to cry 'My Father' or 'My Mother,'..." (Isa. 8:2-4). Maher-shalal-hashbaz means "Make speed spoil, hasten to the prey." Some biblicists have concluded that Maher-shalal-hashaz, like Immanuel, is referring to Jesus. John Calvin correctly denied the validity of this belief by stating, "Isaiah having propheised about the coming of Christ in the former chapter (Isa. 7:14) many improperly explain this (Maher-shalal-hashbaz--Ed.) also as relating to the same subject, that, endued with heavenly power, he (Jesus--Ed.) came to spoil 'the prince of this world'(John 12:31) and therefore 'hastened to the prey.' This ingenuity is pleasing enough but cannot at all harmonize with the text;...." (Calvin's Commentaries, on Isaiah, Vol. I, p. 262). Several aspects of these verses show they are referring to a child born hundreds of years before Jesus:
(1) Isaiah clearly states Maher-shalal-hashbaz is his son.
(2) The birth must have occurred when the two witnesses lived, which was in the time of Ahaz; otherwise, how could they be witnesses?
(3) Past tense verbs such as "conceived" and "bore" show it occurred in the time of Ahaz.
(4) Where and when was Jesus ever called Maher-shalal-hashbaz, especially in the NT?
(5) Where in the Bible was Mary shown to be or ever called a prophetess?
(6) Many theologians, such as the Jewish scholar Troki, even feel Immanuel and Maher-shalal-hashbaz are the same child, because both names are followed by, "For before the child shall...." which are in perfect consonance.

(f) "And he (the king of Assyria) shall pass through Judah; he shall overflow and go over,...and the stretching out of his wings shall fill the breadth of thy land, O Immanuel" (Isa. 8:8). Jesus never owned any land, so how could he be Immanuel? Moreover, the Assyrians stopped passing through Judah hundreds of years before Jesus was ever born. The verse implies that Immanuel was either a king or the son of a king, which Jesus was not.

Since: Feb 09

Location hidden

#677474 Dec 6, 2013
Dave Nelson wrote:
<quoted text>
Alan, your spirituality bears a striking resemblance to a derelict drunk laying on a dark, wet, and cold street having convulsions.
OK, I am a derelict drunk laying on a dark, wet, and cold street having convulsions, but still I beat the hell out of you in here on a daily basis.

Again Dave, when you attack the messenger it proves you can not deal with the message; you prove that I won and you lost.
BenAdam

Abington, PA

#677475 Dec 6, 2013
Reverend Alan wrote:
<quoted text>
JESUS: "Why callest thou me good? There is none good but one, that is God" (Matt. 19:17).
This obviates any possibility of Jesus being the perfect man, much less God.
And what exactly was his sacrifice?
There was no "sacrifice" in a religious sense. There is however a match to only one Levitical "offering"... one Christianity has denied for 1700 years. All offerings except one were sacrificed then either burn to cinders or cooked and eaten.

In no gospel is Jesus burn to a cinder nor cooked and eaten. Thus, he can NOT be a sacrifice under the OT Law.

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