Prove there's a god.

“Is that all you've got?”

Since: Jun 10

Location hidden

#675828 Nov 24, 2013
Catcher1 wrote:
<quoted text>
You know, I can't help it sometimes.
Whatever happened to the "mind over matter" concept?

You would make a poor monk. xD

BTW, avoid areas prone to avalanches when taking care of your business.

“Is that all you've got?”

Since: Jun 10

Location hidden

#675829 Nov 24, 2013
Just Think wrote:
<quoted text>
A lot of people have come to this discussion and said, quite seriously and earnestly, that they can prove god exists. They tend to not stay around very long when people start asking about their "proof."
I have never seen any post where somone claimed they could prove that.

Since: Mar 09

Location hidden

#675830 Nov 24, 2013
timn17 wrote:
And finally, again, if you don't feel like substantiating your claims, don't make them. Or rather, make them all you want, but don't be surprised when you aren't taken seriously except by people looking to confirm their beliefs. It is not up to me to prove you right.
Why would I be surprised when I don't even care?

I said repeatedly I don't care if you believe it so I certainly don't care if you take it seriously. I already know you don't believe anything in the Bible and don't care. So why would anything concerning be any different? Like I said, I make my posts soothers can take what they will from them. And this is the second time you have suggested I am putting the onus on you. You look at these exchanges way differently than me I guess.

I find it a collisional waste of time to try to prove anything to someone who has made up their mind overall. What possible difference would it make if I provided you 100 references to prove archways were needles? So you move on to the next 100 things you want to nit-pick about the Bible. Even you gotta agree with that. Its not like your whole issue with the Bible is the camel verse. So spending too much time on any one thing is not productive

Besides that I read your other posts and they were fine. We haven't exactly had the best exchanges in the past but this has seemed rather civil so I will go into any further exchanges assuming we will pick up the same way

“Is that all you've got?”

Since: Jun 10

Location hidden

#675831 Nov 24, 2013
Kaitlin the Wolf Witch wrote:
Kaitlin the Wolf Witch wrote:
...
When *I* used dailygalay.com as a source, you claimed that it was unreliable; and here you are, using it again.
Interesting.
<quoted text>
I quoted an article from them when I was pointing out the high mathematical probablility of intelligent life on other planets; you calimed that dailygalaxy was a worthless source.
Now you're using it to support your claims.
You lie like a shit-stained rug. You're about as intelligent as one, too.
And pull that condom out of your ass, you pig-fucked piece of shit.
I have never claimed dailygalaxy was a bad source to cite.

You are insane.

Show the proof of it or stfu you tardwad.

Better yet, get professional help for that memory problem of yours.

Since: Mar 09

Location hidden

#675832 Nov 24, 2013
timn17 wrote:
<quoted text>You are misconstruing my argument so that you can suggest I wish to pass on personal responsibility. First of all, you must remember that I don't believe in god, so accusing me of "passing the buck" is nonsensical. I don't believe that all our actions are predetermined; the point is,*if* there is a god as described by the bible, our actions must be.
He doesn't have to intervene - the fact that he *can,* along with the fact that he knows everything that will happen, negates the possibility of free will existing. Even if we truly are in complete control of our actions, and god isn't much more than a first cause, we still don't have true free will. That he *could* intervene and does not, while knowing fully how everything will play out, means that everything that happens is both predetermined and willed to happen by god. The instant everything was created, billions were already doomed to go to hell forever, whether or not you factor true free will into the equation. That we may or may not have a choice in the matter is irrelevant - god knew that billions would "choose" to go to hell, and he allowed it to happen anyway.
You can't blame God and then when someone says that is passing the buck then turn around and claim well you don't even believe in God

I know you don't but you are obviously basing your posts under the premise that God exists, if only for debate. Otherwise I would just say, how can you say God should intervene, you don't even believe in God? So let's not play that

I don't have the slightest idea how you think God not intervening means we don't have free-will. If you want to believe God not intervening to stop the actions being done by people with free will means they don't have free will that is up to you I guess. To me that is like saying if I see someone driving his car and I don't ram my car into him and instead let him keep driving that he is no longer driving his car under his own free will. Its absolutely absurd to me but I can't debate it any more on Topix. If you believe it means predestination so be it
thewordofme

Tucson, AZ

#675833 Nov 24, 2013
Skombolis wrote:
<quoted text>
Well let me work backwards on this as I can probably explain myself better that way
If there was Original Sin I believe it would have been wiped out during the Sacrifice
John 1:29
29 The next day John saw Jesus coming toward him, and said,“Behold! The Lamb of God who takes away the sin of the world!
And also wouldn't matter as no man can go his life without sinning and that sin would be also covered when one repents and is baptized in Christ's name (Acts 2:38) and falls under the sacrifice because of his belief (John 3:16)
But before the sacrifice I don't see anything that would support original sin
Ezekiel 18:20
The soul that sinneth, it shall die. The son shall not bear the iniquity of the father, neither shall the father bear the iniquity of the son: the righteousness of the righteous shall be upon him, and the wickedness of the wicked shall be upon him.
However sin first entered the world thru the first sinner
Romans 5:12
Whereas, as by one man sin entered into the world, and death by sin; and so death passed upon all men, for that all have sinned:
And thus so did the penalty. I would say however it would seem man sometimes felt he started in sin. I believe Psalms to simply be prayers from man's perspective and in that we have:
Psalms 51:5
Behold, I was shapen in iniquity; and in sin did my mother conceive me.
But no I don't really see a basis for Original sin. Although I think practically it makes no difference as it would be forgiven anyway
"According to a Christian theological doctrine, original sin, also called ancestral sin, is humanity's state of sin resulting from the fall of man, stemming from Adam's rebellion in Eden.

This condition has been characterized in many ways, ranging from something as insignificant as a slight deficiency, or a tendency toward sin yet without collective guilt, referred to as a "sin nature", to something as drastic as total depravity or automatic guilt of all humans through collective guilt.

The concept of original sin was first alluded to in the 2nd century by Irenaeus, Bishop of Lyons in his controversy with certain dualist Gnostics. Other church fathers such as Augustine also developed the doctrine, seeing it as based on the New Testament teaching of Paul the Apostle (Romans 5:12–21 and1 Corinthians 15:22) and the Old Testament verse of Psalm 51:5. Tertullian, Cyprian, Ambrose and Ambrosiaster considered that humanity shares in Adam's sin, transmitted by human generation."
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Original_sin

The sin of Adam and Eve is the essential event of the Fall of Man. According to the teaching of Christianity, ALL descendants of Adam and Eve, that is, all people, share in this sin and are, from the time they are conceived, in a state of sin.

No Adam and Eve--No one born into sin.

Mankind has been around for at least 200,000 years, and the stories in the Bible are nothing but myths.

“Is that all you've got?”

Since: Jun 10

Location hidden

#675834 Nov 24, 2013
Kaitlin the Wolf Witch wrote:
<quoted text>
You don't know how to debate. Anytime the heat gets to be too much for you, you dodge and deflect and deny.
Trying to debate with you is like trying to herd kittens.
Making shyt up is not "debate", loser. Please get medicated ASAP.

Since: Mar 09

Location hidden

#675835 Nov 24, 2013
nanoanomaly wrote:
<quoted text>He has whacking on the brain a lot...lately.
Topix has that effect on many people.
I suspect there's probably subliminal messages in the ads on Topix, after all, what else could be causing such rampant, mass ishkabibble stroking?
xD
Heh

Although I don't think Topix needs to turn people crazy. it attracts enough crazy people to begin with!

“Is that all you've got?”

Since: Jun 10

Location hidden

#675836 Nov 24, 2013
Kaitlin the Wolf Witch wrote:
<quoted text>
I proved that there are no laws compelling people to swear an oath to your god to join the military. See how you change the goal posts, christian?
You haven't proven your god to exst; you're just another liar.
Show him proof of your god, hypocrite.
what

Abington, MA

#675837 Nov 24, 2013
what

Since: Mar 09

Location hidden

#675838 Nov 24, 2013
Catcher1 wrote:
<quoted text>
You know, I can't help it sometimes.
C-dog!

What's shaking bacon?

You miss me don't you?

I have finally seen the error of my ways. All this time I let you go about your business despite you following me and instigating UNLESS you are insulting people or starting up crap with me. Whenever you made normal posts to people I let them go and never initiated posts to you. Yet you constantly jump into civil exchanges. Whine about what I say back to people when they start it. And so forth. And I realize now why you do all that. You must have felt you were not getting enough of my attention. Well I am glad to tell you that is all going to change!

I look forward to our new arrangement. Hey, I might even send you a brand-spanking new bottle of lotion and a nice shiny cucumber for your trip if you play your cards right! Heck, I might even get a deck of playing cards with all different color asses! Good talking to you buddy! I know this wasn't a one-word post but I will try to narrow it down:)

Since: Mar 09

Location hidden

#675839 Nov 24, 2013
thewordofme wrote:
<quoted text>
"According to a Christian theological doctrine, original sin, also called ancestral sin, is humanity's state of sin resulting from the fall of man, stemming from Adam's rebellion in Eden.
This condition has been characterized in many ways, ranging from something as insignificant as a slight deficiency, or a tendency toward sin yet without collective guilt, referred to as a "sin nature", to something as drastic as total depravity or automatic guilt of all humans through collective guilt.
The concept of original sin was first alluded to in the 2nd century by Irenaeus, Bishop of Lyons in his controversy with certain dualist Gnostics. Other church fathers such as Augustine also developed the doctrine, seeing it as based on the New Testament teaching of Paul the Apostle (Romans 5:12–21 and1 Corinthians 15:22) and the Old Testament verse of Psalm 51:5. Tertullian, Cyprian, Ambrose and Ambrosiaster considered that humanity shares in Adam's sin, transmitted by human generation."
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Original_sin
The sin of Adam and Eve is the essential event of the Fall of Man. According to the teaching of Christianity, ALL descendants of Adam and Eve, that is, all people, share in this sin and are, from the time they are conceived, in a state of sin.
No Adam and Eve--No one born into sin.
Mankind has been around for at least 200,000 years, and the stories in the Bible are nothing but myths.
How people have taught the Bible historically and what it actually says are not always the same. That in no way proves it isn't true. It just means people didn't understand parts of it

The teachings on hell being eternal for people are wrong IMO too. There is only one verse basically someone can point to for the suggestion of it and that is in Matthew 25 in the parable of the sheep and the goats where people go to everlasting punishment. But that could simply mean a place of everlasting punishment as it is eternal for the beast and false prophet. There are dozens of verses saying the soul dies, that that is second death, etc. Even Jesus said beware He who can destroy both body and soul in hell

So man can get teachings wrong And for possibly a long time. It means nothing. So what if people taught original sin? People also taught pergatory and that wasn't even in the bible?

Although a piece of advice for any future exchanges. Stuff like this..

"Mankind has been around for at least 200,000 years, and the stories in the Bible are nothing but myths."

..isn't adding much. Let's agree now I know you don't believe the bible. You don't need to remind me each post. Other than that, good information in your post which is why I took the time to respond how I did

“Is that all you've got?”

Since: Jun 10

Location hidden

#675840 Nov 24, 2013
timn17 wrote:
<quoted text>Yes, it does mean that free will can't exist if a deity exists and is omnipotent, omniscient, and omnipresent. If all events are known and can be influenced, free will cannot exist. It doesn't mean if they actually are influenced or not - the fact that they are known and could be changed means that everything that transpires does so according to the will of said deity.
lol, you are hysterical.

Since: Mar 09

Location hidden

#675841 Nov 24, 2013
nanoanomaly wrote:
<quoted text> lol, you are hysterical.
It literally gives me a headache

If someone looks in the future to see what someone CHOSE to do on November 30th, then for all practical purposes November 30th is now in the past. Just because someone else looked into the future doesn't mean I can now choose to do something else on November 30th because they looked at a point in time where I already lived that day. Everything I chose to do on that day is already done. And anything I did would be things i did of my own free will. I can't live that day twice.

If God intervened on November 30th and changed what happened, then he couldn't look into the future and see something other than what happened on November 30th

If i choose to eat a bagel on November 30th and God looks in the future to see I chose that, then comes back into the present and makes all the bagels on Earth disappear, then maybe I choose to eat a pizza on November 30th because there are no bagels. In which case when God looks into the future to November 30th, He would see me eat a pizza. The only way the future can be changed would be to change the circumstances around someone BEFORE they made a decision of their own free will. And while that would change the future, it wouldn't mean man lost his free will.

Once a day is lived thru, it becomes the past and can't be changed any more than we can go into the past now and change it. And people just keep arguing that someone knowing the future means we don't have free will. I swear I can't figure it for the life of me. And it is dozens of people I have seen arguing this.

Sorry for posting it to you but I am not going to debate it with someone who disagrees and it drives me nuts every time still and I had to get it off my chest! LOL

Since: Mar 09

Location hidden

#675842 Nov 24, 2013
Edit Nano

One more point on that

If God looks into the future to November 30th to see what I do, He is basically watching me in real time. And once I do whatever i chose to do, those events are in the history book. God saw that day take place and unfold on November 30th. So eve if he is looking at it on November 26th, He is looking forward in time to November 30th occurring naturally. He is looking at a point in time where November 30th is the present for me. I will never get another chance to live that day. The only way I could live that day again and choose something different would be if I could go back in time after I lived that day once and then live it again

I know I am kind of cheating here because I am discussing it and refusing to debate it but nobody on Topix is the boss of me! LOL

I just hope they follow that post because i can't figure out what people are seeing differently

“Is that all you've got?”

Since: Jun 10

Location hidden

#675843 Nov 24, 2013
Skombolis wrote:
Edit Nano
One more point on that
If God looks into the future to November 30th to see what I do, He is basically watching me in real time. And once I do whatever i chose to do, those events are in the history book. God saw that day take place and unfold on November 30th. So eve if he is looking at it on November 26th, He is looking forward in time to November 30th occurring naturally. He is looking at a point in time where November 30th is the present for me. I will never get another chance to live that day. The only way I could live that day again and choose something different would be if I could go back in time after I lived that day once and then live it again
I know I am kind of cheating here because I am discussing it and refusing to debate it but nobody on Topix is the boss of me! LOL
I just hope they follow that post because i can't figure out what people are seeing differently
I believe that the claim of omnipresence as applied to God means that he/it has already experienced all of the "present" moments of Time/reality as humans understand the concept of Time. The Past came before Now and exists all around us and inside us, IOWs, the Past is just as much a part of Now as Now is. It is only reasonable to expect that the Future already exists for an omnipresent god just as the Past does. Our universal wave function may have already played out for an entity that is not limited to existing in our version of the "here and now" like we are. In other words, our future would already be the past to an omnipresent god and part of his "everywhere forever" existence.

Since: Jan 12

Memphis, TN

#675844 Nov 25, 2013
timn17 wrote:
<quoted text>Yes, it does mean that free will can't exist if a deity exists and is omnipotent, omniscient, and omnipresent. If all events are known and can be influenced, free will cannot exist. It doesn't mean if they actually are influenced or not - the fact that they are known and could be changed means that everything that transpires does so according to the will of said deity.
Yep, and that's one of those things I want to ubderstand more, U know this "free will" thing. I wouldn't say that God can't allow people to choose their own fate. The message is clear to those of us who have heard it..."live your life righteously according to said guidelines and U will be spared the punishment set aside for disobedience". Now I'm not tryna preach but this simple, basic message has been uttered since the earliest known civilization (Sumer) and it mentions that we have a choice of which path we shall take. God can be everywhere at once, be all-powerful with supreme authority, and can be at the same time all-knowing. Yea, God knows every event that could take place...some events are pleasing to Him (as revealed), some infuriates Him, and some pains His heart with sorrow (as revealed in the scriptures) but it's still clear that with everything that happens, we all have a choice to make...our OWN choice! And God sees which paths we choose to take, how our behavior changes, and ultimately when we meet the Maker we will have our hearts revealed to Him, either clean or dirty.

Since: Jan 12

Memphis, TN

#675847 Nov 25, 2013
nanoanomaly wrote:
<quoted text>Funny, but I don't see the word "debate" heading any of the Topix forums. A serious debate does not involve profanity and slurs against an opponant's ancestors. What goes on here is nothing more than simple drunken mud slinging that in no way resembles respectable debating. All you're doing is trying to censor the opposition with mockery and your over inflated sense of intellectual superiority, which is, usually, camoflaging an inferiority complex. Did yer mommy regret having children?
I agree with U about these folks not really respecting the format. Then sometimes they'll even make the more reserved people stoop down to their level. I like to debate on the various issues that come up on this thread...I try and make my posts sensible, respond to those alike, and just ignore the "shit-starters" altogether!

Since: Sep 11

Location hidden

#675848 Nov 25, 2013
Skombolis wrote:
<quoted text>
LOL
Wow
Even the transitive property doesn't work there. And trying it would have been specious reasoning to begin with
No that is not what that means
Yeah, an omnipresent deity punishing people for being influenced by the evil guy he created and set loose into the world - that makes sense.

Since: Sep 11

Location hidden

#675849 Nov 25, 2013
Skombolis wrote:
<quoted text>No it isn't!
Are your parents responsible for the decisions you make because they created you?
Please use some common sense
Are our parents omnipresent deities who know exactly how our lives will turn out, who not only created us but every facet of the world we inhabit?

Take your own advice.

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