Prove there's a god.

RiversideRedneck

“Ditat Deus”

Since: Jul 12

Location hidden

#666324 Oct 22, 2013
Apsu wrote:
<quoted text>No, the center of the faith is a mythical hero, "the Christ" or "the Messiah."
Now "the Christ" is known as Jesus, and it was when the Synoptics were written as far as we know. Tacitus does not give a name, though. At that time, many people claimed to be "the Christ." Similar claims are still made in current times, look at David Koresh for instance.
Sorry, RR, the "evidence" you provided shows that a religious cult existed. Nothing else.
<quoted text>"Christus" is a title, not a name.
Similarly, "Sir" does not refer to any one person in particular.
Uh -huh....

Hmmm...

"Yessir, Mr President" refers to no one in particular, right. I mean, that could be ~~**anybody**~~

RiversideRedneck

“Ditat Deus”

Since: Jul 12

Location hidden

#666325 Oct 22, 2013
Apsu wrote:
Many people at that time used the title "Christ" and claimed to be the Messiah.
Yes, I know. But there is only ONE founder of Christianity, ONE "idol", as you put it, that Christians worship, ONE man that was both of those things that the Romans executed.

Just one.
Notice, too, how Tacitus did not use the name Jesus...
Perhaps he didn't know his name yet, ever consider that?

Possibly that why he referred to Jesus as "Christus" instead of "Jesus Christ"...

Do you know for certain? I don't.

But I do know for certain that the individual Tacitus was referring was Jesus.

RiversideRedneck

“Ditat Deus”

Since: Jul 12

Location hidden

#666326 Oct 22, 2013
Al Garcia wrote:
<quoted text>
You love quoting the Bible, unfortunately you don't understand it. Not one bit. Just because you have homosexual tendencies and also because you have anal tendencies it doesn't make your stupid statement correct. its still wrong to include the non cannonical secret gospel of Mark as part of the Bible. Didn't you know that the "secret Gospel of Mark" was a hoax? Or are you still being deceitful again Alan?
You are viewing the relationships in the Bible through jaundiced western eyes. In the ancient East and even today, affectionate displays are typical on that side of the world and well publicized (remember all the news clips of Arab and Middle Eastern leaders kissing each other on the cheek?)
You truly are the "ugly American" uninformed and bumbling through the Bible, quoting verses with out the bare basics or understandings of the eastern culture of the time.
Keep on showing how inept you are Alan. You keep accusing me of trying to show how ignorant you are. I don't have to do anything or even lift a finger.
You're doing a perfectly damn fine job on your own showcasing your ineptness Alan.
ta ha ta hee you sure nailed his hide to the wall, George.

Yup you sure did huh huh huh ta ha ta hee

Since: May 07

Muncie, IN

#666327 Oct 22, 2013
hazem selawi wrote:
-It is We Who have created you. Why, then, do you not accept the truth? Have you ever considered that [seed] which you emit? Is it you who create it? Or are We the Creator?(Qur'an, 56:57-59)
-Does man reckon he will be left uncontrolled [without purpose]? Was he not once a drop of ejected semen?(Qur'an, 75:36-37)
The ancient Egyptians, who predated Mohammed by thousands and thousands of years, understood that our semen was also our "seed." Maybe you should start worshiping ancient gods of Egypt?
hazem selawi wrote:
-We created man from a mingled drop to test him, and We made him hearing and seeing.(Qur'an, 76:2)
What in the world is "a mingled drop," anyways?
Who is this mystical man-maker?
Who makes women, by the way?
While we are at it, who makes elves?
Babies are born mostly blind, and their eyesight develops over the course of 6-8 months, making your passage incorrect.
hazem selawi wrote:
-He Who has created all things in the best possible way. He commenced the creation of man from clay; then He made his progeny from an extract of discarded fluid.(Qur'an, 32:7-8)
So, clay mixed with "discarded fluid" is the recipe to make men?
What is the recipe given by Mohammed to make women?

There is no "recipe" to "make" anyone, Hazem. Development is a biological process, not magical. There is no clay involved either.
hazem selawi wrote:
-He has created both sexes, male and female from a drop of semen which has been ejected.(Qur'an, 53:45-46)
-Was he not a drop of ejaculated sperm, then a blood-clot which He created and shaped, making from it both sexes, male and female?(Qur'an, 75:37-39)
So, you really think that humans arise from a drop of semen?
I'll give you a little biology lesson. I'll keep it simple. Men have something called sperm. Women have something called eggs. When a sperm from a man unites with an egg from a woman - pow!... Conception! No blood clots necessary.

Mohammed excludes women from this equation entirely. Why is that?
hazem selawi wrote:
-[We] then formed the drop into a clot and formed the clot into a lump and formed the lump into bones and clothed the bones in flesh; and then brought him into being as another creature. Blessed be Allah, the Best of Creators!(Qur'an, 23:14)
So, a clot turns into a lump, which turns into bones, which get dressed and bam! A human!
This is something I might expect a four-year-old to come up with.
This does not even remotely resemble biological development.
hazem selawi wrote:
-... He creates you stage by stage in your mothers' wombs in threefold darkness. That is Allah, your Lord. Sovereignty is His. There is no god but Him. So what has made you deviate?(Qur'an, 39:6)
This is incorrect as well. Humans are not "made" stage by stage. Rather, a series of developmental processes occur as cells form distinct tissues that in turn develop into specific biological systems (such as, circulatory, lymphatic, nervous, structural, digestive, etc). All of these are developing at different rates and at different times during development, there are no distinct "stages" at which one particular event is occurring.
hazem selawi wrote:
..!!this time we are doing it differently, I want all of you to try to explain the versus up here in this reply, I don't want anybody to come claim that I added a word or a fact, so lets go and see how these versus can possibly be explained by you, remember that the Quran encourage the people to think, use their minds and observe everything around them.
I will be waiting your explanations, please lets commit some scientific integrity and try to explain those versus objectively and Accurately , reading the Quran is different than reading any book you have to pay attention to he very specific details
There is nothing remotely scientific about what you presented, Hazem. It is inaccurate, misinformative, and downright silly.

Since: Sep 08

Alamosa, CO

#666328 Oct 22, 2013
Apsu wrote:
<quoted text>Mythology proves nothing. Mythology does not prove that anything significant happened (like you are saying) any more than it proves that a pantheon of gods live on Mt. Olympus. Mythology does not have to be based on any real events or even remotely related to any real events like you are implying. It *can* be based on some real event, but does not have to be.
Mythology served a myriad of purposes, from attempting to explain the natural world, to reinforcing pride and morale in one's nation of people, to relaying cultural norms and mores, to giving people a sense of purpose in the often unpredictable world. Whether or not that mythology was based on any real-world events was not important.
Now, I can totally accept that the story of Atlantis might be inspired by some real-world event, like you proposed except without the dramatic nonsense you are adding to it. Similarly, the story of the Trojan War is likely to have been inspired by a real event; same for the Deluge story. There is no evidence of the dramatic, cataclysmic events told in those stories as they exist in the mythology, though. Stories get embellished over time, especially when transmitted through the oral tradition, and details added to adapt the story to local and current stories and traditions and to amaze listeners.
This still happens today, in the entertainment industry - for instance, Abraham Lincoln Vampire Hunter.
That being said, what you are doing is trying to disregard Earth science, disregard what is observed, and disregard what is known in order to squeeze your dramatic story of Atlantis in there somewhere. It is one thing to say that a mythical story is (or might be) based on a real event, but it is another thing completely to say that what we observe is an illusion in order to give credence to that assertion.
Here is someone that may have shared some values with you, but expounds on a point you may be missing, and which is kind of key to our differences of opinion and perspective. Guess which it is and how key it is to your education.

"Now, a few words about education. You know we receive an education in the schools from books. All those books that people became educated from twenty-five years ago, are wrong now, and those that are good now, will be wrong again twenty-five years from now. So if they are wrong then, they are also wrong now, and the one who is educated from the wrong books is not educated, he is misled. All books that are written are wrong, the one who is not educated cannot write a book and the one who is educated, is not really educated but he is misled and the one who is misled cannot write a book which is correct.

The misleading began when our far distant ancestors began to teach their descendants. You know they knew nothing but they passed their knowledge of nothing to the coming generations and it went so innocently that nobody noticed it. That is why we are not educated.

Now I will tel you what education is according to my reasoning. An educated person is one whose senses are refined. We are born as brutes, we remain and die as the same if we do not become polished. Some are too coarse to take it. The main base of education is one's "self-respect". Any one lacking self-respect cannot be educated. The main bases of self-respect is the willingness to learn, to do only the things that are good and right, to believe only in the things that can be proved, to possess appreciation and self control.

Now, if you lack willingness to learn, you will remain as a brute and if you do things that are not good and right, you will be a low person, and if you believe in things that cannot be proved, any feeble minded person can lead you, and if you lack appreciation, it takes away the incentive for good doing and if you lack self control you will never know the limit.

So all those lacking these characteristics in their makeup are not educated."

Since: May 07

Muncie, IN

#666329 Oct 22, 2013
RiversideRedneck wrote:
Uh -huh....
Hmmm...
"Yessir, Mr President" refers to no one in particular, right. I mean, that could be ~~**anybody**~~
Not anybody, but it could refer to any number of people.
Take your pick:
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_Presiden...

You are simply negating your own argument. Good job at that!

Since: Sep 11

Location hidden

#666330 Oct 22, 2013
hazem selawi wrote:
<quoted text>
<quoted text>
<quoted text>
<quoted text>
THE BIRTH OF A HUMAN BEING
Many diverse subjects are mentioned in the Qur'an while also inviting people to believe. Sometimes the heavens, sometimes animals, and sometimes plants are mentioned as evidence of Allah's existence. In many of these verses, people are called upon to consider their own creation. They are often reminded how man came into the world, which stages he has passed through, and what his essence is:
-It is We Who have created you. Why, then, do you not accept the truth? Have you ever considered that [seed] which you emit? Is it you who create it? Or are We the Creator?(Qur'an, 56:57-59)
-Does man reckon he will be left uncontrolled [without purpose]? Was he not once a drop of ejected semen?(Qur'an, 75:36-37)
-We created man from a mingled drop to test him, and We made him hearing and seeing.(Qur'an, 76:2)
-He Who has created all things in the best possible way. He commenced the creation of man from clay; then He made his progeny from an extract of discarded fluid.(Qur'an, 32:7-8)
-He has created both sexes, male and female from a drop of semen which has been ejected.(Qur'an, 53:45-46)
-Was he not a drop of ejaculated sperm, then a blood-clot which He created and shaped, making from it both sexes, male and female?(Qur'an, 75:37-39)
-[We] then formed the drop into a clot and formed the clot into a lump and formed the lump into bones and clothed the bones in flesh; and then brought him into being as another creature. Blessed be Allah, the Best of Creators!(Qur'an, 23:14)
-... He creates you stage by stage in your mothers' wombs in threefold darkness. That is Allah, your Lord. Sovereignty is His. There is no god but Him. So what has made you deviate?(Qur'an, 39:6)
..!!this time we are doing it differently, I want all of you to try to explain the versus up here in this reply, I don't want anybody to come claim that I added a word or a fact, so lets go and see how these versus can possibly be explained by you, remember that the Quran encourage the people to think, use their minds and observe everything around them.
I will be waiting your explanations, please lets commit some scientific integrity and try to explain those versus objectively and Accurately , reading the Quran is different than reading any book you have to pay attention to he very specific details
I think you should just accept that the "science of the quran" angle is pure nonsense. Try a different tack. For instance, the threat of being roasted alive for eternity is more compelling to me than the suggestion that these primitive pipe dreams found in the quran indicate divinely inspired scientific literacy. By more compelling, I mean not at all, but still, it's something.

Since: Sep 08

Alamosa, CO

#666331 Oct 22, 2013
http://health.wusf.usf.edu/post/fl-blue-cance...

Oh where or where is our OCB?

Hopefully it wasn't her Blue Cross/Blue Shield that didn't go up one cent that got cancelled.

Which could explain why it didn't go up. That should always make you nervous when your insurance company doesn't raise its rates. That is against the laws of nature,or something.

“ad victoriam”

Since: Dec 10

arte et marte

#666332 Oct 22, 2013
Dave Nelson wrote:
http://health.wusf.usf.edu/pos t/fl-blue-cancels-300000-polic ies?nopop=1
Oh where or where is our OCB?
Hopefully it wasn't her Blue Cross/Blue Shield that didn't go up one cent that got cancelled.
Which could explain why it didn't go up. That should always make you nervous when your insurance company doesn't raise its rates. That is against the laws of nature,or something.
OcD and Apsu are roomies, they suck together without even trying to.

Since: Apr 09

Location hidden

#666334 Oct 22, 2013
hazem selawi wrote:
<quoted text>
<quoted text>
<quoted text>
<quoted text>
THE BIRTH OF A HUMAN BEING
Many diverse subjects are mentioned in the Qur'an while also inviting people to believe. Sometimes the heavens, sometimes animals, and sometimes plants are mentioned as evidence of Allah's existence. In many of these verses, people are called upon to consider their own creation. They are often reminded how man came into the world, which stages he has passed through, and what his essence is:
-It is We Who have created you. Why, then, do you not accept the truth? Have you ever considered that [seed] which you emit? Is it you who create it? Or are We the Creator?(Qur'an, 56:57-59)
-Does man reckon he will be left uncontrolled [without purpose]? Was he not once a drop of ejected semen?(Qur'an, 75:36-37)
-We created man from a mingled drop to test him, and We made him hearing and seeing.(Qur'an, 76:2)
-He Who has created all things in the best possible way. He commenced the creation of man from clay; then He made his progeny from an extract of discarded fluid.(Qur'an, 32:7-8)
-He has created both sexes, male and female from a drop of semen which has been ejected.(Qur'an, 53:45-46)
-Was he not a drop of ejaculated sperm, then a blood-clot which He created and shaped, making from it both sexes, male and female?(Qur'an, 75:37-39)
-[We] then formed the drop into a clot and formed the clot into a lump and formed the lump into bones and clothed the bones in flesh; and then brought him into being as another creature. Blessed be Allah, the Best of Creators!(Qur'an, 23:14)
-... He creates you stage by stage in your mothers' wombs in threefold darkness. That is Allah, your Lord. Sovereignty is His. There is no god but Him. So what has made you deviate?(Qur'an, 39:6)
..!!this time we are doing it differently, I want all of you to try to explain the versus up here in this reply, I don't want anybody to come claim that I added a word or a fact, so lets go and see how these versus can possibly be explained by you, remember that the Quran encourage the people to think, use their minds and observe everything around them.
I will be waiting your explanations, please lets commit some scientific integrity and try to explain those versus objectively and Accurately , reading the Quran is different than reading any book you have to pay attention to he very specific details
Well, scientifically, everyone on the page before this one thoroughly kicked your ass.

I guess I'll go for mocking humor:

So, according to the Quran, when doctors remove a blood clot from a guy, they are giving him an abortion?

Since: May 07

Muncie, IN

#666335 Oct 22, 2013
RiversideRedneck wrote:
Yes, I know. But there is only ONE founder of Christianity, ONE "idol", as you put it, that Christians worship, ONE man that was both of those things that the Romans executed.
Just one.
Your mythology now gives the name Jesus. There is no evidence such was the case when this passage was written, only that there was a religious cult based around a mythical idol.
No name was given.
Furthermore, there are no Roman records of Jesus either. Lying to substantiate your case only shows you realize the weakness of your argument.
RiversideRedneck wrote:
Perhaps he didn't know his name yet, ever consider that?
Possibly that why he referred to Jesus as "Christus" instead of "Jesus Christ"...
Actually, as Scaritual pointed out, the reference was to a "Chrestus" and not a "Christus," which are not the same. You (and, to a lesser extent, even I) are assuming that what was meant was "Christus," remember. Even with that liberal assumption, there is no indication that the title referred to anyone by the name of Jesus.

So, it seems that according to your logic, Tacitus did not know the name of the person, the title, or the religious group (which was called "Chrestians," remember). Despite all of this you continue to prattle on about this being evidence of a historical Jesus?
Sorry, RR, but someone not knowing something does not prove a historical Jesus.
RiversideRedneck wrote:
Do you know for certain? I don't.
But I do know for certain that the individual Tacitus was referring was Jesus.
You do not know anything for certain.

All that you know is that Tacitus referred to a religious cult known as "Chrestians" who worshiped a mythical idol of some sort. This in no way provides evidence of any historical person.

Keep in mind, too, that there were many people who claimed to be or were considered "the Christ."
Greens - Tuf

Kurnell, Australia

#666336 Oct 22, 2013
Dave Nelson wrote:
http://health.wusf.usf.edu/pos t/fl-blue-cancels-300000-polic ies?nopop=1
Oh where or where is our OCB?
Hopefully it wasn't her Blue Cross/Blue Shield that didn't go up one cent that got cancelled.
Which could explain why it didn't go up. That should always make you nervous when your insurance company doesn't raise its rates. That is against the laws of nature,or something.
It's time to take cover here Dave.
D day is unfolding. It is extremely hot and windy, the water bombing helicopters have been grounded due to the winds, but we have 3000 firefighters on the ground in the Blue mountains. I have never seen so many fire trucks which have been coming in all week. The Blue mountains is a no go zone, and if you are there then they want you out.
It is time for me to get ready for the onslaught, as in 1 hr from now all hell will break loose.

RiversideRedneck

“Ditat Deus”

Since: Jul 12

Location hidden

#666337 Oct 22, 2013
Apsu wrote:
<quoted text>Not anybody, but it could refer to any number of people.
Take your pick:
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_Presiden...
You are simply negating your own argument. Good job at that!
Oh my GAAAWD....

Ok, Mr Pedant.

"Yessir, Mr First President In US History"

Washington is not mentioned by name, but he doesn't have to be with that quote....

RiversideRedneck

“Ditat Deus”

Since: Jul 12

Location hidden

#666338 Oct 22, 2013
Dave Nelson wrote:
http://health.wusf.usf.edu/pos t/fl-blue-cancels-300000-polic ies?nopop=1
Oh where or where is our OCB?
Hopefully it wasn't her Blue Cross/Blue Shield that didn't go up one cent that got cancelled.
Which could explain why it didn't go up. That should always make you nervous when your insurance company doesn't raise its rates. That is against the laws of nature,or something.
OCB?!

She's under the desk....

fip fip fip fip fip

....almost done

Wait your turn!

Since: Sep 08

Alamosa, CO

#666339 Oct 22, 2013
Greens - Tuf wrote:
<quoted text> It's time to take cover here Dave.
D day is unfolding. It is extremely hot and windy, the water bombing helicopters have been grounded due to the winds, but we have 3000 firefighters on the ground in the Blue mountains. I have never seen so many fire trucks which have been coming in all week. The Blue mountains is a no go zone, and if you are there then they want you out.
It is time for me to get ready for the onslaught, as in 1 hr from now all hell will break loose.
Our prayers are with you.

Stay safe, Greens.

Since: May 07

Muncie, IN

#666340 Oct 22, 2013
RiversideRedneck wrote:
Oh my GAAAWD....
Ok, Mr Pedant.
"Yessir, Mr First President In US History"
Washington is not mentioned by name, but he doesn't have to be with that quote....
You had to amend your earlier analogy because you realize it revealed the frailty of your argument.

A title so vague as "Chrestus" (or even "Christus") does not imply any person in particular. Your example now, on the other hand, is referring to someone very specific.

Keep in mind, the Synoptics had not been written yet, so the story you read in the Bible today did not exist at that time.
True believer

Phoenix, AZ

#666341 Oct 22, 2013
Apocalypse666 wrote:
Come on and do it.
Prove there's a god.
Don;t read off scripture or anything like that just prove there's a god.
There is only one true God and the thing is people who dont believe try to hard to prove he is not but no one can prove how we came to be so theres one proof read the bible and you will see he is the only person who knows the future...He will not force you to believe in him so be who you are and know his door is always wide open

“Darwin was right..of course.”

Since: Jun 11

Evolution is true.....

#666342 Oct 22, 2013
Dave Nelson wrote:
<quoted text>
Here is someone that may have shared some values with you, but expounds on a point you may be missing, and which is kind of key to our differences of opinion and perspective. Guess which it is and how key it is to your education.
"Now, a few words about education. You know we receive an education in the schools from books. All those books that people became educated from twenty-five years ago, are wrong now, and those that are good now, will be wrong again twenty-five years from now. So if they are wrong then, they are also wrong now, and the one who is educated from the wrong books is not educated, he is misled. All books that are written are wrong, the one who is not educated cannot write a book and the one who is educated, is not really educated but he is misled and the one who is misled cannot write a book which is correct.
The misleading began when our far distant ancestors began to teach their descendants. You know they knew nothing but they passed their knowledge of nothing to the coming generations and it went so innocently that nobody noticed it. That is why we are not educated.
Now I will tel you what education is according to my reasoning. An educated person is one whose senses are refined. We are born as brutes, we remain and die as the same if we do not become polished. Some are too coarse to take it. The main base of education is one's "self-respect". Any one lacking self-respect cannot be educated. The main bases of self-respect is the willingness to learn, to do only the things that are good and right, to believe only in the things that can be proved, to possess appreciation and self control.
Now, if you lack willingness to learn, you will remain as a brute and if you do things that are not good and right, you will be a low person, and if you believe in things that cannot be proved, any feeble minded person can lead you, and if you lack appreciation, it takes away the incentive for good doing and if you lack self control you will never know the limit.
So all those lacking these characteristics in their makeup are not educated."
Where is this copy/pasted from...references please.

“I never claimed to be Perfect”

Since: Nov 10

just better than yesterday

#666343 Oct 22, 2013
Greens - Tuf wrote:
<quoted text> It's time to take cover here Dave.
D day is unfolding. It is extremely hot and windy, the water bombing helicopters have been grounded due to the winds, but we have 3000 firefighters on the ground in the Blue mountains. I have never seen so many fire trucks which have been coming in all week. The Blue mountains is a no go zone, and if you are there then they want you out.
It is time for me to get ready for the onslaught, as in 1 hr from now all hell will break loose.
Oh craap! Stay safe!

Since: Sep 08

Alamosa, CO

#666344 Oct 22, 2013

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