Prove there's a god.

“First it steals your mind..”

Since: Jun 11

..and then it steals your soul

#650025 Aug 7, 2013
Aura Mytha wrote:
<quoted text> Yup but easier to just avoid all suits. lol
Lol I don't know if you pay attention, but often Hollywood would use a coral snake when they need to show a danger of a snake in close proximity. I have seen it on several movies. Only problem is, that it is not the ckral snake they use, it is the harmless banded snake (no idea what you call them there in US-land).

I can remember a few scenes, mkst famous is probably in The Lost World: Jurassic Park, the scene where the T-Rex surprises the army camp and chase some people into a cave behind a waterfall. I cannot insert a link, but you may find it on youtube. A snake then slithers into the collar of that bearded palaeontologist. He freaks out and stumbles into the jaws of the T-Rex. A very satisfying crunch takes place. Check the bands on the snake

Since: Sep 08

Westcliffe, CO

#650026 Aug 7, 2013
Aura Mytha wrote:
<quoted text>
Right, I agree nicotine maybe more addictive, but both are comparable in being an addictive agent.
But some cannot cold turkey from heroin and live, that's a fact.
Though some may have done it and survived, it's not the same as putting addicts in a cell, both heroin and nicotine.
None will die from nicotine withdrawal, some will die from heroin withdrawal.
It depends on the dosage level they have reached. Heroin really takes over the body. Cold turkey can kill a hard core junkie. Methadone and the such do not work by themselves. It is just a substitute when they can't get the real thing. I have witnessed forced cold turkey and the threat of death if the habit was taken up again work. It requires some real tough love to accomplish for most.

You won't die from nicotine withdrawal, just maybe go crazy. It works as a brain glue.

The cops in that NM town I lived in carried Narcan to keep the overdosing junkies there alive.

I have an especially strong hatred for heroin and similar drug pushers from what I have seen them do to people. Not an ounce of mercy or compassion in me for them.

Since: Sep 08

Westcliffe, CO

#650027 Aug 7, 2013
Hidingfromyou wrote:
<quoted text>
Yeah. I'd have to see unbiased links to believe that. I don't know if you care enough to dig them up, and this isn't a challenge, so do what you will.
The thing is, working in academia and seeing where the funding goes, there's a lot of bad science produced by the anti-smoking and anti-drinking lobbies. So if they're research funds come from any such institutions, you have to take that with quite a few grains of salt.
But, yeah, it's quite possible my personal experiences are not indicative of normality - in fact, that's most likely here. Yet, b/c of them, I can't see it. I mean, i have an addictive personality and everything but nicotine seems to trigger it.
I suppose, if you're correct, that just makes me lucky (if you discount all my other damned addictions).
Trust your body's reactions. It knows better than your mind.

“A sentient umbrella speaks”

Since: Mar 11

Some stable somewhere

#650028 Aug 7, 2013
OCB wrote:
<quoted text>LOL! News articles based on research, but whatever, Hiding.
Uh, sorry OCB, news articles aren't based on scientific research. They're just one person's investigation into whatever they feel the public wants to read. As such, they're biased.

I couldn't find any indicators in an admittedly quick jaunt through the academic literature that quantified nicotine as more addictive than other drugs.
But anyway, I'm not gonna waste time splitting hairs here- from what you posted:
"In total, the evidence clearly identifies nicotine as a powerful drug of addiction, comparable to heroin, cocaine and alcohol."
So if you're taking exception to me saying that nicotine is MORE addictive than heroin, cocaine or alcohol, so be it.
Yeah, ok.
But as I just posted to Aura and from the first link I provided for you:
''Heroin addicts say it is easier to give up dope than it is to give up smoking,'' says Dr. Sharon Hall, a psychology professor whose research at the University of California's San Francisco medical school centers on methods of curtailing drug abuse.
http://www.nytimes.com/1987/03/29/magazine/ni...
Put it in historical, societal and political-economic context.
But really- this is getting silly......we have Dave Nelson extolling the imagined virtues of tobacco use and we have RR stating quite proudly that he is an inconsiderate smoker who has no respect for private property.
Bottom line- cigarettes are BAD for one's health, bad for the health of others around smokers and also create unnecessary air pollution; I'm not saying that ANY air pollution is "necessary" or desirable, but things such as cars ARE a necessity despite the toxic emissions from cars.
Sure. Ok, commercialized tobacco products are not healthy. Dave is dying because of it - kind of funny that he's then defending them.

Very clearly they aren't going to improve health. Not a single Olympic athlete is a full time tobacco smoker (discounting the pot head snowboarders). Not a single triathlon athlete smokes regularly - it just isn't possible to put the body under that stress and physically compete at a high level. So, yes, there's cost involved.
There is NOTHING at ALL beneficial about smoking.
Period. End of story.
I have to disagree, on many levels.

1. You're not separating American cigarettes from normal tobacco, and so you're including additives and they are really not healthy

2. Smoking quite clearly gives smokers benefits. Otherwise they wouldn't smoke - psychological rewards here mediated by chemical addiction, sure, but rewards nonetheless.
(and I actually enjoy the very occasional nicotine jaunt, but can't stand more than that; so it's positive for me)

3. Hunter-gatherers who use nicotine prevent fulminant infection by parasites - a positive. Might reduce their maximum age, but that's hard to separate from all the other abuse their bodies are taking
I'm gonna try not to post about this again; not only do I know what I'm talking about, this is just way too off topic.
Unless we wanna talk about why a god would have created such a noxious weed to begin with.....
Did you see "Oh God"? He said he made three mistakes:
Tobacco
Making the avocado pit too large
And for the life of me, I can't remember what his third mistake was- LOL!!
hahaha!

God invented nicotine so the American Natives could get revenge on the evil white people.

:)

“First it steals your mind..”

Since: Jun 11

..and then it steals your soul

#650029 Aug 7, 2013
OCB wrote:
<quoted text>But I wasn't talking about drunkards.
Cigarettes are far more addictive than is alcohol. This is a well known and well established fact. Not only are cigarettes more addictive than alcohol, they are also more addictive than heroin and cocaine.
Therefore, there really is no such thing as a "moderate" smoker other than the very few and rare exceptions of people who only smoke a few cigarettes a day and/or don't smoke every day.
However, it is not the exception regarding moderate drinkers- that being those who may only have one glass of wine with dinner and/or who do not drink every day. Those who drink to excess are not the norm.
Sorry, DF, but the numbers don't lie. 443,000 Americans die each year from smoking cigarettes and not sure of the number of people whose health is very adversely affected by second hand smoke.
And 75,000 Americans die each year from alcohol related deaths.
So I can only assume you would prefer to live with a moderate drinker who does not imbibe to the point of being a "drunkard" rather than living with a chain smoker.
Read a response from HFY, she read your post a bit more closely. I was waiting for a pizza, so my attention was not as it should be.

More addictive than cocaine and heroine? No ways, not on this earth.

Also, I don't think it is too fair to compare the number of deaths and use that as arguing point. I will tell you why. Cocaine, crack and heroine are very addictive and very dangerous drugs - one can overdose quite easily. Mkst governments police the distribution thereof diligently. Smugglers, dealers and users are locked up and punished harshly. Nos people never get near coke, H or crack.

Cigarettes can be bought by anyone. You can buy as much as you like. One, two, a pack, a carton, etc. Even kids can buy - ask a bum to buy a pack and give him a buck for his trouble.

Cigarrets have a much, much, much wider distribution network than all the drugs we mentioned, including alcohol.

To compare deaths attributed to the different substances, would be kind of like saying "mosquitos kill 3 million people per year, lions kill only a hundred. Therefore, a mosquito is more dangerous than a lion"
MayIHaveYourAtte ntionPlz

United States

#650030 Aug 7, 2013
A Formal Satire wrote:
<quoted text>
If that is your definition of "God," then god is a vacuous concept, devoid of meaning. You act as though humanity must be in a state or worship at all times.
you. are. dumb.

“First it steals your mind..”

Since: Jun 11

..and then it steals your soul

#650031 Aug 7, 2013
OCB wrote:
<quoted text>Believe me or not- that doesn't really concern me.
And not sure what point you're trying to make; your personal experiences with various drugs do not speak for the majority.
If you'd like, I can post any number of links for you that confirm that tobacco- and specifically cigarettes- ARE far more addictive than not only alcohol, heroin and cocaine, but even more addictive than all of those drugs combined.
And I NEVER said that alcohol, heroin or cocaine are not addictive substances; they most definitely are, but if one becomes addicted to any of those drugs, it IS easier to kick those habits than it is to quit smoking.
This is NOT my opinion; this is fact.
Look at it this way; how many cigarettes will one need to smoke in order to have ingested a lethal amount? A pack a day for twenty years? Compare this to alcohol, alcohol poisoning is possible, but one needs to ingest a lot of it. Compare this to coke or heroine? A few grams.

OCB

“What a GLORIOUS day!!!”

Since: Apr 12

Orlando but NYC born & raised

#650032 Aug 7, 2013
Hidingfromyou wrote:
<quoted text>

<quoted text>
Put it in historical, societal and political-economic context.
<quoted text>
Sure. Ok, commercialized tobacco products are not healthy. Dave is dying because of it - kind of funny that he's then defending them.
Very clearly they aren't going to improve health. Not a single Olympic athlete is a full time tobacco smoker (discounting the pot head snowboarders). Not a single triathlon athlete smokes regularly - it just isn't possible to put the body under that stress and physically compete at a high level. So, yes, there's cost involved.
<quoted text>
I have to disagree, on many levels.
1. You're not separating American cigarettes from normal tobacco, and so you're including additives and they are really not healthy
2. Smoking quite clearly gives smokers benefits. Otherwise they wouldn't smoke - psychological rewards here mediated by chemical addiction, sure, but rewards nonetheless.
(and I actually enjoy the very occasional nicotine jaunt, but can't stand more than that; so it's positive for me)
3. Hunter-gatherers who use nicotine prevent fulminant infection by parasites - a positive. Might reduce their maximum age, but that's hard to separate from all the other abuse their bodies are taking
<quoted text>
hahaha!
God invented nicotine so the American Natives could get revenge on the evil white people.
:)
No doubt smoking as psychological rewards- I smoke- I know all about it and that is why I smoke.

But at what price? A chemically induced psychological "reward" at the expense of one's health and in one way or another.

Yes- I am talking about American tobacco products and American cigarettes.

I smoke "American Spirit"- their thing is that it is 100% additive-free tobacco and because there are no fillers, stems, etc. each cigarette has up to 25% more tobacco than most other leading brands.

Here's their website if you wanna check it out:

www.sfntc.com

Of course, the Surgeon General's warning are still on the packs as is this:

No additives in our tobacco does NOT mean a safer cigarette (their caps- not mine)

Look, I LIKE smoking. I always have. And when I started, things were MUCH different.

Cig ads on TV, smoking ANYWHERE- and I do mean ANYWHERE- was the norm.

No one was ridiculed or looked down upon for being a smoker; back then, it was the NON-smokers who were the minority.

So long before smoking started to get the bad press it has and continues to get- and frankly, I believe rightly so.

It's hard for me to be both objective and at the same time subjective about this because as a smoker, I am torn.

I do enjoy it, I don't want to quit, but I also know I can do it and I know I should.

I envy you that you can smoke the way you do- if I could do that, it wouldn't be a problem or an issue for me! Years ago a friend of mine amazed me in that way:

She would smoke daily for 2 or 3 weeks straight- and close to a pack a day- and then she would suddenly quit and not smoke for 6 months straight.

Don't know how she did it either. I'd have to say that 99% of the smokers I've known in my life smoke daily and easily a pack a day- or at least they used to; I'm sure that other lifetime smokers have cut down on the number of cigs a day just as I have.

In any case, for the majority of smokers, it's just not healthy. Doesn't mean you'll get cancer or COPD or die from it; but there are many adverse effects to the body from smoking and many that could lead to serious health issues and complications.

Inhaling smoke into the body is not what lungs were intended to do.

Not trying to sound trite or holier-than-thou on this, but really- I find smoking- at least strictly from a physical health point of view- to be indefensible.

Your post edited for space.

“A sentient umbrella speaks”

Since: Mar 11

Some stable somewhere

#650033 Aug 7, 2013
Double Fine wrote:
To compare deaths attributed to the different substances, would be kind of like saying "mosquitos kill 3 million people per year, lions kill only a hundred. Therefore, a mosquito is more dangerous than a lion"
Mosquitoes are, hands down, without any doubt, way more deadly than lions. Maybe not one on one sort of dangerous, but mosquitoes kill far more people than in any given month lions ever have or ever will.

“e pluribus unum”

Since: Dec 10

primus inter pares

#650034 Aug 7, 2013
OCB wrote:
<quoted text>Here's an interesting tidbit:
''Heroin addicts say it is easier to give up dope than it is to give up smoking,'' says Dr. Sharon Hall, a psychology professor whose research at the University of California's San Francisco medical school centers on methods of curtailing drug abuse."
http://www.nytimes.com/1987/03/29/magazine/ni...
That's because people never become unaddicted , they only trade addictions. But to a degree I agree with that, the argument was to stop. You can stop smoking easier than stop heroin.
Becoming unaddicted and not starting again is different.

“Ditat Deus”

Since: Jul 12

Location hidden

#650035 Aug 7, 2013
OCB wrote:
<quoted text>That's not a benefit to smoking.
That's like saying the car should never have been invented because it put people who supplied horses and all the rest of it- carriages, etc., out of work.
When one job becomes obsolete, another job is created to take its place.
What a load of HOOEY!!
And no- you are WRONG. Doesn't matter that it's outside. You are STILL on private property.
Now- tell me how smoking benefits YOU personally as a smoker. What benefits are YOU personally deriving from it?
Oh. Me personally? It calms my nerves.

“First it steals your mind..”

Since: Jun 11

..and then it steals your soul

#650036 Aug 7, 2013
Hidingfromyou wrote:
<quoted text>
Wow, that sucks. Oh, well. Guess you can't keep up to me!
I am sure that the average tenth grader can drink me under the table now

“Ditat Deus”

Since: Jul 12

Location hidden

#650037 Aug 7, 2013
OCB wrote:
<quoted text>Can you do ANYTHING for yourself?
Geez.....
"Ted Bundy was a notorious serial killer executed for his crimes. But before he died, he also claimed faith and forgiveness in Christ."
http://www.gracelife.org/resources/articles.a...
One of the most infamous sex criminals of all time is Ted Bundy. According to his own words, Bundy believed his descent into the horrible pit of sexual assault and murder was fueled by an addiction to violent obscenity. What makes Bundy’s case of immense interest to evangelical Christians is an execution-eve interview conducted by Dr. James Dobson, president of Focus on the Family. This interview took place Monday, January 23, 1989, 2:30 P.M. EST, at the State Penitentiary in Starke, Florida. Bundy called Dobson and offered the interview with the understanding that it would be used to warn the public of how his horrible downfall actually took place. Portions of this 30-minute interview are transcribed here, from “Ted Bundy Interview Transcript,” Focus on the Family.
********At the end of the interview, Bundy gave his personal testimony of faith in Jesus Christ.*********
http://www.oocities.org/campuschristians_sjc/...
LMAO!

He might've done that after the fact, of course he would. He was a chicken shit about to die.

“Ditat Deus”

Since: Jul 12

Location hidden

#650038 Aug 7, 2013
OCB wrote:
<quoted text>And why is it that every time it's pointed out that a criminal is/was a Christian do you try to deny it?
Do you really think Christians are perfect people incapable of committing heinous crimes?
What is WRONG with you?
I just like to point out atheist lies.

“A sentient umbrella speaks”

Since: Mar 11

Some stable somewhere

#650039 Aug 7, 2013
Dave Nelson wrote:
<quoted text>
Trust your body's reactions. It knows better than your mind.
Coffee. I'm truly and ever addicted to caffeine.

“Ditat Deus”

Since: Jul 12

Location hidden

#650040 Aug 7, 2013
OCB wrote:
<quoted text>BTW, be sure not to visit Disneyland in CA or Disney World here in Orlando.
There are areas set aside outside for smokers.
If you smoke in any area other than the designated areas, you risk security personnel escorting you off of their PRIVATE property.
Now- back to any PERSONAL benefits you PERSONALLY derive from smoking- still waiting....
RR, can't you even be honest enough to admit that smoking is BAD for you, that it's a STUPID habit and that you would be better off in SO many respects if you didn't smoke?
Sign of a HOPELESS addict; someone who can't even be honest about their addiction and how harmful and detrimental it is.
Wow.
Yeah, I know that Disneyland has areas set aside for smokers.

Do you really think I use them?

Because I don't. I smoke where the hell I want, I'm outside.

“A sentient umbrella speaks”

Since: Mar 11

Some stable somewhere

#650041 Aug 7, 2013
Double Fine wrote:
<quoted text>
Lol I don't know if you pay attention, but often Hollywood would use a coral snake when they need to show a danger of a snake in close proximity. I have seen it on several movies. Only problem is, that it is not the ckral snake they use, it is the harmless banded snake (no idea what you call them there in US-land).
I can remember a few scenes, mkst famous is probably in The Lost World: Jurassic Park, the scene where the T-Rex surprises the army camp and chase some people into a cave behind a waterfall. I cannot insert a link, but you may find it on youtube. A snake then slithers into the collar of that bearded palaeontologist. He freaks out and stumbles into the jaws of the T-Rex. A very satisfying crunch takes place. Check the bands on the snake
King snake.

“First it steals your mind..”

Since: Jun 11

..and then it steals your soul

#650042 Aug 7, 2013
OCB wrote:
<quoted text>Again- I was not referring to those who are "drunks".
So that you say you would rather live with a nicotine addict than a drunk is really not the issue.
To compare the unhealthiness of someone who smokes at least a pack of cigs a day to someone who had a daily glass of wine with dinner- well....there is no comparison.
You are right, no comparison. But still, I would rather live with a erso addicted to smokes, rather than one addicted to booze

“Ditat Deus”

Since: Jul 12

Location hidden

#650043 Aug 7, 2013
Hidingfromyou wrote:
<quoted text>
I based an entire relationhip on alcohol and sex once. It lasted for a very nice 4 years.
:)
Yup. That'll do it.

Lol

OCB

“What a GLORIOUS day!!!”

Since: Apr 12

Orlando but NYC born & raised

#650044 Aug 7, 2013
Double Fine wrote:
<quoted text>
Read a response from HFY, she read your post a bit more closely. I was waiting for a pizza, so my attention was not as it should be.
More addictive than cocaine and heroine? No ways, not on this earth.
Also, I don't think it is too fair to compare the number of deaths and use that as arguing point. I will tell you why. Cocaine, crack and heroine are very addictive and very dangerous drugs - one can overdose quite easily. Mkst governments police the distribution thereof diligently. Smugglers, dealers and users are locked up and punished harshly. Nos people never get near coke, H or crack.
Cigarettes can be bought by anyone. You can buy as much as you like. One, two, a pack, a carton, etc. Even kids can buy - ask a bum to buy a pack and give him a buck for his trouble.
Cigarrets have a much, much, much wider distribution network than all the drugs we mentioned, including alcohol.
To compare deaths attributed to the different substances, would be kind of like saying "mosquitos kill 3 million people per year, lions kill only a hundred. Therefore, a mosquito is more dangerous than a lion"
I compared the number of deaths from cigarettes to the number of alcohol-related deaths- I didn't compare deaths from cigs to that of heroin or cocaine.

I referred to those substances in comparison to the addictive quality of nicotine.

Perhaps I misspoke when I said nicotine is "more" addictive than alcohol, heroin and cocaine, but it is at least as addictive as those substances and arguments have been made that nicotine is even more addictive than those substances.

Anyway, I see the logical conclusion to all of this is simply that smoking is not good for you and is actually very bad all around.

Not talking about the financial issue such as the tax revenue realized from the sale of tobacco products, but only from a physical health point of view.

So to say these numbers mean this and those numbers mean that.....I don't really see the relevance.

Smoking does kill close to half a million Americans each year.

Make of that number whatever you wish.

Smoking is unhealthy. I won't argue that statement with anyone.

To do so would be ludicrous.

And as a reminder- I AM a smoker.

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