Prove there's a god.

Since: Feb 09

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#645513 Jul 27, 2013
RiccardoFire wrote:
McKinsey
Go ahead with your character assignation. It only proves that you can not refute any of the Bible's seemingly limitless errors.

Instead of copy and paste, perhaps you could actually deal with one of the problems?

Perhaps this one?

In regard to eating the forbidden fruit, a related problem is especially troublesome to Biblicists. How could evil arise in the beginning if God created everything was good, yeah perfect. Certainly Adam and Eve couldn't have created evil since they were part and parcel of the perfect creation. As perfect beings they couldn't have created imperfection, i.e. sin. If they did, or could, create sin, then by definition they weren't perfect. The apologist W. Arndt said it well:

"Here we face a mystery, baffling to all thinkers, for which we, standing on the Bible, can offer no explanation than the one given in divine revelation, to wit; that Satan brought sin into the world. If the inquiry is pushed beyond this point (which I wouldn't hesitate to do) and it is asked, How could Satan, who evidently was created as a good being, become perverted and an enemy of God? We are not able to give a solution. It is a question on which God has not thought it necessary to inform us in His holy Word." Bible Difficulties, W. Arndt, p.132

Why no answer is given is quite easy to understand. There isn't any.

This directly parallels the problem presented by Isaiah 44:24, Eccle. 11:5, John 1:3, Eph. 3:9, Rev. 4:11 and other verses saying God must have created everything. If God didn't create everything and evil then either evil doesn't exist or God did not create some things, namely evil. It's that simple. In attempting to remedy the problem W. Arndt alleged"

"... there are angels who did not remain in the state of righteousness and holiness in which they had been created, but who sinned, leaving their own habitation, the mansions of Heaven, and by God were cast down to hell... It is here where we have the origin of evil in the universe. One of these fallen angels is Satan, and it was he who employed the serpent in his successful endeavor to lead mankind into sin." Ibid. p136

This explanation has an obvious fatal flaw. If God's original creation was perfect, then no aspect of it could have create evil. If the fallen angel was originally perfect then he could no more have committed an evil act than could the allegedly perfect Jesus.

Since: Feb 09

Location hidden

#645514 Jul 27, 2013
RetardoFire wrote: What do you call children that were produced by believers in a higher power?
Myth Buster wrote:
<quoted text>
Victims of child abuse.
Excellent, LOL, good one!

Since: Feb 09

Location hidden

#645515 Jul 27, 2013
RiccardoFire wrote:
The fact is McKinsey wanted to sell his book.
And if you wrote a book you wouldn't want anyone to buy it.

This is from the 3rd issue back in March 1989:

Jesus, The Imperfect Beacon--I thought it might be appropriate to conclude this month's commentary with some additional statements and acts by Jesus which disprove his perfection.

In Matt. 5:44 Jesus told people to: "...Love your enemies, bless them that curse you, do good to them that hate you,..."Yet repeatedly called his opponents names and hurled epithets.(See Matt. 23:15, 23:17, 19, 27, 33, John 10:8, Luke 11:40, Matthew 12:34)

In John 23:32 Jesus said: John 12:32 "And I, if I be lifted up from the earth, will draw all men unto me." Jesus was alleged lifted up but he is far from having drawn all men to him. The majority of mankind have never heard is name.

In Matthew 8:20 Jesus said: "And Jesus saith unto him, The foxes have holes, and the birds of the air have nests; but the Son of man hath no where to lay his head." while in Mark 2:15 it says '...Jesus sat at meat in his house." Jesus had no place to lay his head, yet he owned a house. According to psalm 24:1 he owned everything.

In Matthew 19:19 Jesus said: "Honour thy father and thy mother: and, Thou shalt love thy neighbour as thyself." while he said to his own mother in John 2:4: "...Woman, what have I to do with thee?" Apparently Jesus' love escaped him. This is the same Jesus who told everyone else to "Honor thy father and mother.

Since: Feb 09

Location hidden

#645516 Jul 27, 2013
RiccardoFire wrote:
Although McKinsey ... raises some good points concerning the Resurrection and the extrabiblical references to Jesus,.
Among those beliefs crucial to Christianity few are of greater importance than that of the Resurrection. Paul went so far as to allege the very foundation of Christianity rests upon its occurrence.

1Cor. 15:14 "And if Christ be not risen, then is our preaching vain, and your faith is also vain." ( also: 1 Cor. 15:17)

Yet, why should the Resurrection be of such significance? Elijah raised a child from the dead (1 Kings 17:17, 21-22); Samuel said to Saul, "Why hast thou disquieted me, to bring me" (1Sam. 28.7, 11, 15); Elisha raised the dead son of a Shunammite ( 2 Kings 4:32, 34-35); a dead man being lowered into a grave revived when he touched the bones of Elisha (2 Kings 13:21); Moses and Elijah revived at the time of the Transfiguration ( Luke 9:28, 30 );the saints arose at the time of Jesus' death ( matt. 27:52-53 ); Jairus' daughter rose from the dead (Matt. 9:18, 23-25 ); the widow at Nain's son rose from the dead (Luke 7:11-15 ); and Lazarus rose from the dead ( John 11:43-44 ). All of these people ascended from death and all did so before Jesus. So why attribute so much importance to the event. By the time Christ rose from the dead this was a rather common occurrence.

Moreover, people not only before Jesus but after as well. Peter raised Tabitha and Paul raised Eutychus.

Since: Nov 12

Elk Grove, CA

#645517 Jul 27, 2013
Reverend Alan wrote:
<quoted text>
Let's see if you avoid this one:
1 Chronicles 16:30, "Tremble before him, all the earth! The world is firmly established; it cannot be moved."
With out moving we would not have seasons, are you insisting RR that we do not have summer and winter?
Normal people know this is just stupid. But normal people also know you are more stupid for believing stupid. When you teach children things like this RR you are condemning them to a lifetime of asking, "May I super-size that for you?"
Confused McKinsey again, wish he was not plant food right now, the verse is not saying that PLANET earth stands still, but that the peoples of the earth are stubborn and immoveable in their hearts and minds.
Let all the PEOPLES of the earth be spiritually moved, that is let their hearts and minds be spiritually moved to the grace and presence of the Lord, because the Lord has found the PEOPLES of the earth stubborn in their hearts and minds.

For example in Acts 17:5 the word MOVED denotes a movement in the soul, "But the Jews, MOVED with envy..."

Movement of grace in souls is opposed to an immoveable (stubborn in heart) world as is denoted in: Psalms 94:8 "To day if you shall hear his voice, harden not your hearts"

Since: Nov 12

Elk Grove, CA

#645518 Jul 27, 2013
Reverend Alan wrote:
<quoted text>
And if you wrote a book you wouldn't want anyone to buy it.
.
Exactly my point. And you bought it.

“Is that all you've got?”

Since: Jun 10

Location hidden

#645519 Jul 27, 2013
Reverend Alan wrote:
<quoted text>
JESUS: Luke 19:27, "But those enemies of mine who did not want me to be king over them--bring them here and kill them in front of me."
You do not seem to have a problem with Atheists being murdered nanoabnormality.
If you had read the previous paragraphs in chapter 19, 19:11-27, you would have seen that Jesus was relating a parable to a rich publican named Zaccheus. The man in the parable was the one promoting murder, not Jesus.

You're not very good at this.

Since: Nov 12

Elk Grove, CA

#645520 Jul 27, 2013
Reverend Alan wrote:
RetardoFire wrote: What do you call children that were produced by believers in a higher power?
<quoted text>
Excellent, LOL, good one!
Is that how you look at yourselves? Do you mock believers at your family reunions or are you a coward?

Since: Nov 12

Elk Grove, CA

#645521 Jul 27, 2013
Reverend Alan wrote:
<quoted text>
Go ahead with your character assignation. It only proves that you can not refute any of the Bible's seemingly limitless errors.
Instead of copy and paste, perhaps you could actually deal with one of the problems?
All you do is copy and paste from McKinsey. And now you complain to me about it? LOL....I exposed you for being a follower of his church. You remind me of the followers of cults.

Since: Nov 12

Elk Grove, CA

#645522 Jul 27, 2013
Reverend Alan wrote:
<quoted text>
I'll be happy to explain it to you after you explain to us why pew warmers are so willfully ignorant.
Any book claiming a woman turned into a pillar of salt (Gen. 19:26), the sun went backward 10 degrees on the sundial (2 Kings 20:11), and quails came from the sea (Num. 11:31) is going to have great difficulty demonstrating its scientific precision to any reasonably scientific minds.
You are just jealous because pew warmers are happy and you're not.

Since: Feb 09

Location hidden

#645523 Jul 27, 2013
waaasssuuup wrote:
<quoted text>
let's say for moment that you're right and that i am mentally retarded: do you always spend your time insulting, bullying and chiding with the disabled and unfortunate?:-(
I would suggest you are more deficient than retarded but Myth Buster has such a nice way with words I refuse to object. It is important to inform the MR's of their deficiencies so as to help them stop letting their imagination replace reality. Myth Buster is doing you a favor.

Honestly "waaasssuuup" if you don't like being informed you are mentally retarded then you should stop posting nonsense that proves you are in fact retarded.

Oh btw, almost forgot, here is another problem with the Bible:

For two thousand years Christians have alleged that Jesus of Nazareth is God incarnate, the sinless being, the embodiment of perfection.

1Pet. 2:22 Who did no sin, neither was guile found in his mouth:
Isa. 53:9 And he made his grave with the wicked, and with the rich in his death; because he had done no violence, neither was any deceit in his mouth.

Yet, the New Testament has many statements and acts by Jesus which prove the contrary. He, like Paul, repeatedly made false statements and inaccurate prophecies. Here are a few examples:

Jesus told a man: Mark 8:34 "... Whosoever will come after me, let him deny himself, and take up his cross, and follow me."

This statement was made early in his ministry. Yet, the cross could not have become a Christian symbol until after the Crucifixion. There would be nothing to pick up. This utterance would have made no sense whatever to the man being addressed.

Clearly some apologist added it to the text, another forgery.

“Is that all you've got?”

Since: Jun 10

Location hidden

#645524 Jul 27, 2013
Reverend Alan wrote:
<quoted text>
JESUS: Luke 19:27, "But those enemies of mine who did not want me to be king over them--bring them here and kill them in front of me."
You do not seem to have a problem with Atheists being murdered nanoabnormality.
The people in that story were not only not atheists they were not real, they were merely characters in a parable that Jesus told.

I think we've established who, here, is the one who hates his human brothers for using their own minds as they see fit. The lust for blood is clear in the tone of your comments. I have no desire or apathy towards cutting an atheist's life short because of their ideology, you flaming buttwad.

Since: Feb 09

Location hidden

#645525 Jul 27, 2013
RiversideRedneck wrote:
<quoted text>
Boy, when someone makes a typographical error you guys go nuts.
When GodTheBible makes an error you claim it isn't an error.

In Matthew 5:22 Jesus said: "...but whosoever shall say, Thou fool, shall be in danger of hell fire."

Yet, Jesus repeated called people fools: Matt. 23:17,19 "Ye fools and blind..." Luke 11:40 "Ye fools,..."

Since: Feb 09

Location hidden

#645526 Jul 27, 2013
RiversideRedneck wrote:
<quoted text>
Oh no! You don't believe me!
Whatever will I do?
May I suggest putting your head where the sun don't shine.

Since: Feb 09

Location hidden

#645527 Jul 27, 2013
RiversideRedneck wrote:
<quoted text>
Prove that I'm being dishonest.
Go.
I have quoted your dishonesty numerous times. Dishonesty is a Christian thing:

Jesus told a man: Mark 8:34 "... Whosoever will come after me, let him deny himself, and take up his cross, and follow me."

This statement was made early in his ministry. Yet, the cross could not have become a Christian symbol until after the Crucifixion. There would be nothing to pick up. This utterance would have made no sense whatever to the man being addressed.

“Is that all you've got?”

Since: Jun 10

Location hidden

#645528 Jul 27, 2013
macumazahn wrote:
<quoted text>You didn't think at all before you hit "Enter", did you?
In a gunfight, I want the better gun. So would you, unless you're apocalyptically stupid.
"Artificial" means "made by humans" - but we are part of Nature, are we not? So "artificial" is natural, yes?
Oh, and WTF with drones?
Who said anything about derones?
We have American drones floating around overhead - and at least one US city has posted a bounty, to be paid to anyone can bring one down.
And in an emergency, the first two things you're gonna do are:
1. Call someone with a gun.
2. Hope like hell he gets there in time.
I'm guessing you drink from the same water source as that senile cow, Water Nymph...

Do yourself a favor and get tested, Dr. Dimento.

Since: Feb 09

Location hidden

#645529 Jul 27, 2013
psalms 23 wrote:
<quoted text>
This post "proves beyond a shadow of a doubt",
Funny how you can attack me and Dennis but you can't fix, solve or resolve a single Bible problem:

Jesus told the thief on the cross: Luke 23:43 "... Verily I say unto thee, To day shalt thou be with me in paradise."

This prophecy could not have been kept unless Jesus went to heaven that day, in which case he would not have been buried for three days.

Do explain why you accept such nonsense as truth and attack people who expose it as the error it is?

Since: Feb 09

Location hidden

#645530 Jul 27, 2013
psalms 23 wrote:
<quoted text>I have my assurance about the Bible, and God/Jesus and where my eternity will be.
The Bible is contradictory, inconsistent and can not be trusted. You are asking me to accept error and fallacy.

The real question should be why you would swim in sewer tank and pretend it is a clean healthy swimming pool.

I need only present one error and the whole authority of the Bible is in question. I have presented thousands of errors and you refuse to see them.

Even if I wanted to get saved, if I went to the Bible, I still would not know what to do.

Salvation by works, for example, is clearly shown in Matthew 19:16-21, where a man asked Jesus what he must do to have eternal life:

Matt. 19:16-18 "And, behold, one came and said unto him, Good Master, what good thing shall I do, that I may have eternal life? And he said unto him, Why callest thou me good? there is none good but one, that is, God: but if thou wilt enter into life, keep the commandments. He saith unto him, Which? Jesus said, Thou shalt do no murder, Thou shalt not commit adultery, Thou shalt not steal, Thou shalt not bear false witness, Honour thy father and thy mother: and, Thou shalt love thy neighbour as thyself. The young man saith unto him, All these things have I kept from my youth up: what lack I yet? Jesus said unto him, If thou wilt be perfect, go and sell that thou hast, and give to the poor, and thou shalt have treasure in heaven: and come and follow me."

Clearly, according to Jesus salvation is obtained by works. Good works, good deeds, following the commandments are all that is necessary. Jesus said nothing about believing in anything. Faith or belief isn't even mentioned. Robert Ingersoll correctly stated:"(In the 19th Chapter of Matthew we find) a child of God is asking God what is necessary for him to do in order to inherit eternal life... Now, if there ever has been an opportunity given to the Almighty to furnish a man of an inquiring mind with the necessary information upon that subject, here was the oppornuity...(And yet Jesus-ed) did not say to him: You must believe in me- that I am the only begotten son of the living God. He did not say: You must be born again. He did not say: You must believe in the Bible. He did not say: You must remember the Sabbath, to keep it holy... What right has the church to add conditions of salvation?" What Must We Do To Be Saved?, Ingersoll's Works Vol. 1 p 465.

Incidentally, only five of the Ten Commandments were listed and "Love thy neighbor is not even a commandment. It's actually found in Leviticus 19:18.

Mark 10:17-19 repeats the essential message of Matthew 19:16-18 and also lists a commandment-defraud not that doesn't exist. Again, five of the Ten Commandments were omitted.(See also: Luke 18:18-22, 10:25-28, Acts 10:35 Ezek.18:4-9, James 1:25, 27, 2:21, 25, Romans 2:13, 1 Cor. 7:19, Luke 19:8-9, John 5:28-29, Deut. 10:12, Ecclesiastes 12:13). All the above verses resemble Micah 6:8 which says:

Micah 6:8 "...what doth the LORD require of thee, but to do justly, and to love mercy, and to walk humbly with thy God?"

All of them state one is saved by good works; none mentions anything associated with belief or faith. Good deeds alone are sufficient.

“THE LORD IS MY SHEPHERD;”

Since: Apr 09

Location hidden

#645531 Jul 27, 2013
Myth Buster wrote:
<quoted text>
100%
Atheism: A religion

“Atheism is the position that affirms the non-existence of God. It proposes positive disbelief rather than mere suspension of belief.”1

Buddhism is atheistic in the sense of denying that there is any overarching deity such as the Creator-God of the Bible. Atheism in the western sense excludes Buddhism, and adherents claim that it is not a religion. One Atheist said:

“Calling Atheism a religion is like calling bald a hair colour”2

However, atheists make such claims so Atheism can avoid legal imperatives placed on religions in many countries, and can avoid some of the ideological hang-ups people have about “religion”. It also creates a false dichotomy between science (which they claim must be naturalistic and secular) and religion.

Atheism3 will be defined in the contemporary western sense: not just the lack of belief in a god, but the assertion about the non-existence of any gods, spirits, or divine or supernatural beings. Atheists in this sense are metaphysical naturalists, and as will be shown, they DO follow a religion.


Atheism creates a false dichotomy between science (which they claim must be naturalistic and secular) and religion.


Religion is a difficult thing to define. Various definitions have been proposed, many of which emphasize a belief in the supernatural.4 But such definitions break down on closer inspection for several reasons. They fail to deal with religions which worship non-supernatural things in their own right (for example Jainism, which holds that every living thing is sacred because it is alive, or the Mayans who worshiped the sun as a deity in and of itself rather than a deity associated with the sun)5; they fail to include religions such as Confucianism and Taoism which focus almost exclusively on how adherents should live, and the little they do say about supernatural issues such as the existence of an afterlife is very vague; they also don’t deal with religious movements centred around UFOs—which believe that aliens are highly (evolutionarily) advanced (but not supernatural) beings.

A better way to determine whether a worldview is a religion is to look for certain characteristics that religions have in common. The framework set forth by Ninian Smart,6 commonly known as the Seven Dimensions of Religion, is widely accepted by anthropologists and researchers of religion as broadly covering the various aspects of religion, without focusing on things unique to specific religions.

The seven dimensions proposed by Smart are narrative, experiential, social, ethical, doctrinal, ritual and material. Not every religion has every dimension, nor are they all equally important within an individual religion. Smart even argues that the “secularisation” of western society is actually a shift of focus from the doctrinal and ritual to the experiential.

Continued;

Since: Feb 09

Location hidden

#645532 Jul 27, 2013
RiccardoFire wrote:
<quoted text>Back in my day we had 9 planets....Couldn't resist.
And you probably believe we are a single star solar system. Solar bodies exist before they are discovered.

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