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“saved From jesus”

Since: Jul 11

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#642710
Jul 18, 2013
 
psalms 23 wrote:
<quoted text>
Is that your answer to my questions? Really?
<quoted text>
Well, to simplify it. In the "laws of logic" vs philosophy of naturalism, the laws of logic, debunk that philosopy....
prem·ise (prms)
n. also prem·iss (prms)
1. A proposition upon which an argument is based or from which a conclusion is drawn.
2. Logic
a. One of the propositions in a deductive argument.
b. Either the major or the minor proposition of a syllogism, from which the conclusion is drawn.
Holier than though... So your gonna resort to name calling like the rest of them huh... Typical, when you cant give a "reasonable" explanation to a direct question.
<quoted text>
I will respond to that question, as soon as you answer mine in the other post..
You're obfuscating and throwing in a bunch of unnecessary definitions. Nothing debunks logic.

Now, logically prove your god and stop playing word games. Is that easy enough for you to understand?

Empirical proof will do (logic). Just ask your god to do it. According to your bible, you can do it. Ask and it will happen. Your god promises. I'll wait.

Well, maybe not. I'm usually too busy.

“saved From jesus”

Since: Jul 11

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#642711
Jul 18, 2013
 
Double Fine wrote:
<quoted text>
All of those are atheist lies! And err.. Natural laws as of yet undiscovered.
Right, RR?
That post was ignored. Calling me stupid seemed more important at the time.

“saved From jesus”

Since: Jul 11

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#642712
Jul 18, 2013
 
Double Fine wrote:
<quoted text>
I did not use 'theory' in the scientific sense. Currently, there are two competing hypotheses for the origin of snakes. That aside, you still have fully formed snake fossils during the early Cretaceous!
So:
1) Either man lived 112 million years ago and the predecessor to the snake got punished, or
2) The Adam and Eve story is a fable
It used to have hands, feet, and vocal chords....and of course a fully developed brain with speech capability, but god got mad at it.

“saved From jesus”

Since: Jul 11

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#642713
Jul 18, 2013
 
Double Fine wrote:
<quoted text>
No, us atheists believe that the bible is not the work of *a* god and it all means nothing.
If you read the Quran, are you going to put any stock into it? How about ancient Greek transcripts about the glory of Zeus?
Has thou forsaken the FSM?

“Listen to the sounds”

Since: Feb 09

of your own extinction......

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#642714
Jul 18, 2013
 
RiversideRedneck wrote:
<quoted text>
That's because it's a true translation, done by a worldwide team of unbiased scholars that all agreed upon what the actual translation should be.
Unlike the KJV, which was done by six British men under the command of their king to make it the way he wanted it.
This is one of the main problems in Christianity. You expect others to believe that your Bible is the word of God, yet you do not believe that anyway.

For hundreds of years, people believed in this KJV, and yet now it has grave errors? So many errors and so severe that it calls for a revision?

And do not make the mistake that versions and translations are the same thing. It's not.

If you take any book today that has been translated, what does that mean? It means simply that the book has been converted to another language. Take any book like the Da Vinci Code for example. Each sentence is translated. But each sentence is still present. They did not take out chunks of sentences that are present in the original english and throw it away. Or they did not put in sentences that Dan Brown did not write in his original.

But with the Bible, there are different "Versions", not merely different "Translations". This is because these different "versions", do not have the same number of verses, or even the same number of chapters! You have the Catholic bible, which has 73 books, then there is the Protestant Bible which has 66 books. 7 entire chapters or books, thrown out by the protestants! Some Orthodox Bibles have up to 81 books!

As if that is not bad enough, the Protestant bible has many numerous versions. Many verses in the KJV are not present in the revised standard version (RIV) created in 1901. Entire sentences removed, dismissed as fabricated and not "Gods word". This was grounds of uncovering ancient scriptures from 3rd century. But then there is the New International Version of 1970, where they have inserted certain verses previously not in the RIV, into the NIV!

Now, what nonsense is this? Entire chapters being thrown out and put back in. Verses being thrown out and put back in. Biblical scholars themselves do not trust the Bible to be the inerrant word of God, yet you expect everyone else to believe in it?

Why should I believe the NIV? In a few years time they will have a revised NIV with verses taken out or put in, and then you'll be promoting that one?

Since: Sep 11

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#642715
Jul 18, 2013
 

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nanoanomaly wrote:
<quoted text>Your link's not working.
http://www.kingjamesbibleonline.org/1-Corinth...
Here ya go.
Sorry, some random characters inserted themselves in the link. Here:

http://www.biblegateway.com/passage/...

If it doesn't work again, just search google for "bible gateway 1 corinthians 7 ASV."

Also, I thought the KJV was evil? Now you are using it when it suits your purposes? Or is it only RR who hates it, and you're fine with it?

Since: Sep 11

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#642716
Jul 18, 2013
 

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nanoanomaly wrote:
<quoted text>If you're not interested in it then why do you keep yapping about it?
If my money said "in hogwarts we trust," I'd be yapping about that.

Also, I enjoy mindless banter.

Since: Sep 11

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#642717
Jul 18, 2013
 
True Truth wrote:
<quoted text>
This is one of the main problems in Christianity. You expect others to believe that your Bible is the word of God, yet you do not believe that anyway.
For hundreds of years, people believed in this KJV, and yet now it has grave errors? So many errors and so severe that it calls for a revision?
And do not make the mistake that versions and translations are the same thing. It's not.
If you take any book today that has been translated, what does that mean? It means simply that the book has been converted to another language. Take any book like the Da Vinci Code for example. Each sentence is translated. But each sentence is still present. They did not take out chunks of sentences that are present in the original english and throw it away. Or they did not put in sentences that Dan Brown did not write in his original.
But with the Bible, there are different "Versions", not merely different "Translations". This is because these different "versions", do not have the same number of verses, or even the same number of chapters! You have the Catholic bible, which has 73 books, then there is the Protestant Bible which has 66 books. 7 entire chapters or books, thrown out by the protestants! Some Orthodox Bibles have up to 81 books!
As if that is not bad enough, the Protestant bible has many numerous versions. Many verses in the KJV are not present in the revised standard version (RIV) created in 1901. Entire sentences removed, dismissed as fabricated and not "Gods word". This was grounds of uncovering ancient scriptures from 3rd century. But then there is the New International Version of 1970, where they have inserted certain verses previously not in the RIV, into the NIV!
Now, what nonsense is this? Entire chapters being thrown out and put back in. Verses being thrown out and put back in. Biblical scholars themselves do not trust the Bible to be the inerrant word of God, yet you expect everyone else to believe in it?
Why should I believe the NIV? In a few years time they will have a revised NIV with verses taken out or put in, and then you'll be promoting that one?
But it's a team of international scholars, and they assure us they very carefully interpret god's word.

“Listen to the sounds”

Since: Feb 09

of your own extinction......

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#642718
Jul 18, 2013
 

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Double Fine wrote:
<quoted text>
I did not use 'theory' in the scientific sense. Currently, there are two competing hypotheses for the origin of snakes. That aside, you still have fully formed snake fossils during the early Cretaceous!
So:
1) Either man lived 112 million years ago and the predecessor to the snake got punished, or
2) The Adam and Eve story is a fable
I think the claim that it was indeed a snake which tempted Adam and Eve, was probably made up to scare people into not going near snakes, as they are poisonous and unpredictable.

Since: Sep 11

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#642719
Jul 18, 2013
 

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nanoanomaly wrote:
<quoted text>Your link's not working.
http://www.kingjamesbibleonline.org/1-Corinth...
Here ya go.
The verse you posted is only slightly less repugnant anyway. It implies male ownership of women,("his virgin"), and it says that a man may do what he will with a virgin so long as she has had her period. So, if you want to rape "your" virgin, it's cool so long as she's had her period and you marry her afterwards.

“Listen to the sounds”

Since: Feb 09

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#642720
Jul 19, 2013
 
timn17 wrote:
<quoted text>But it's a team of international scholars, and they assure us they very carefully interpret god's word.
It's not interpretation.

With the Quran, we have one Arabic Quran regarded as the original Quran. And then there are numerous imperfect line by line translations for all the non arabic speakers to study. But ultimately, all Muslims know the Quran to be the original Arabic text, and whatever translation they read is merely a translation.

But with the Bible, it is not a word for word or sentence by sentence translation of some original Aramaic, Greek and Hebrew text. They throw certain sentences and chapters out, and they put sentences or chapters in!

For any translation of any book, if the original has 1000 sentences spread across 4 chapters, the translation will have 1000 sentences across 4 chapters. That is basic logic. If one translation has 1200 sentences in 3 chapters, then it is obviously never going to be the work of the original author. It's obvious there is fabrication and tampering involved.

“ The Lord of delirious minds.”

Since: Dec 10

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#642721
Jul 19, 2013
 
True Truth wrote:
<quoted text>
It's not interpretation.
With the Quran, we have one Arabic Quran regarded as the original Quran. And then there are numerous imperfect line by line translations for all the non arabic speakers to study. But ultimately, all Muslims know the Quran to be the original Arabic text, and whatever translation they read is merely a translation.
But with the Bible, it is not a word for word or sentence by sentence translation of some original Aramaic, Greek and Hebrew text. They throw certain sentences and chapters out, and they put sentences or chapters in!
For any translation of any book, if the original has 1000 sentences spread across 4 chapters, the translation will have 1000 sentences across 4 chapters. That is basic logic. If one translation has 1200 sentences in 3 chapters, then it is obviously never going to be the work of the original author. It's obvious there is fabrication and tampering involved.
You are incorrect, there are a few alleged inserts, but there are no inserted/omitted chapters. The difference is some excluded/ included books others do not have. Then there is translation error, this is due to the reasons you stated Aramaic, Greek and Hebrew. Where the Koran is a much younger book it survived in a single text , but it too was canonized. The difference is no alternate versions exist anymore, so you can't even compare it to the alternate versions. Even so some do still exist, so like any belief system, it has it's skeletons in the closet.

Since: May 11

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#642722
Jul 19, 2013
 

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RiversideRedneck wrote:
<quoted text>
That's because it's a true translation, done by a worldwide team of unbiased scholars that all agreed upon what the actual translation should be.
Unlike the KJV, which was done by six British men under the command of their king to make it the way he wanted it.
I know this is difficult for you to understand given your heavy burden of dogma but:

One cannot be an unbiased scholar of the bible...one is simply too invested in it to be unbiased.

Correctly translated nonsense is still in the final analysis...nonsense.

“Listen to the sounds”

Since: Feb 09

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#642723
Jul 19, 2013
 
Aura Mytha wrote:
<quoted text>
You are incorrect, there are a few alleged inserts, but there are no inserted/omitted chapters. The difference is some excluded/ included books others do not have. Then there is translation error, this is due to the reasons you stated Aramaic, Greek and Hebrew. Where the Koran is a much younger book it survived in a single text , but it too was canonized. The difference is no alternate versions exist anymore, so you can't even compare it to the alternate versions. Even so some do still exist, so like any belief system, it has it's skeletons in the closet.
Okay, you regard it as books as opposed to chapters, and that is more accurate, since there isn't a single author, but rather multiple authors. The point is, there are entire sections of the Bible that are disputed. The difference ranges from 67 to 81 books. Pages upon pages of the Bible are not believed in by one or more Christian denominations.

Translation error is not a problem. That is inevitable and understandable. But when there are sentences being removed or added in, that is not translation error. That is blatant tampering.

The Quran was revealed and written down during Muhammeds life, and compiled during his disciples lives. There was no inconsistency or debate over which verses or chapters are true or not.

Muhammed allowed 7 ways of reciting the Quran, since at that time there were seven dialects of arabic in the Arabian peninsula. Yemeni, Bahraini, Omani Arabic and others is slightly different from Medinan and Meccan Arabic. These dialects had no impact on the meaning of the Quran and Muhammed saw no problem, but his disciples saw a problem afterwards as Islam was spreading to non-Arab people. That is why they maintained only the Medinan and Meccan way of recitation, and ordered copies in other dialects burned.

We still have the various dialects of the Quran in various museums in Turkey, Yemen, Damascus, Saudi and Egypt. Some of these Qurans weren't burned. Muslims and non Muslims have studied it and conclude the meaning was always the same. The differences between the Quran today and these ones in different dialects are comparable to saying "you say 'tomayto', I say 'tomato'", or "His name was Muhammed" to "Muhammed was his name".

Moreover, the Quran is an oral scripture, easily memorizable like a nursery rhyme. Anyone trying to add or remove sentences was easily caught out just like how if someone today sings twinkle twinkle little star differently, the English world will easily catch it out. The word "Quran" means "recitation".

One would think that if there was anything highly doubtful, these Muslim countries would try their best to destroy these "competing" Qurans and protect the claim of authenticity of the Quran. But they have it on display to the world. So you can believe its a skeleton if you want, but its not in the closet. Its in glass cases for anyone to see.

“I see quantum effects”

Since: Jan 11

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#642728
Jul 19, 2013
 
RiversideRedneck wrote:
<quoted text>Hey look, we can both do that nonsense.

I can't reply to you when you erase my post that you're responding to.

I've never done it, so I'll ask: How's it feel to flail about?
Asks the master flailer.

“ The Lord of delirious minds.”

Since: Dec 10

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#642729
Jul 19, 2013
 
Covert Stealth Op wrote:
<quoted text>.....and this is where you demonstrate to all that you have no understanding and the simplest atheist trumps you. Adam and Eve both died on that very day that they ate. That is why Adam became aware of his nakedness. Without Christ man is truly the walking dead. Zombies. You said that Adam lived 930 years and died. Well, that meant that even in his physical body Adam began to die and his physical body gave out after 930 years and he died.
In this age, our physical body is so corrupted with sin, that are physical body catches up and dies on average after 75 years. Walking Zombies.
God said that we must be born again, because we all died on the day that Adam did eat. There are two deaths.
Did you know that you can ride your bicycle every day for 930 years and you will not reach the moon. So, does that mean that bicycle makers lied? No, it means that you do not understand.
What amazes me is the fact that YOU think that these are errors and difficult questions. Do you find that trying to figure out math questions is hard? Well, newsflash there are degrees of difficulties and whether math or the Bible it is you who lack in understanding.
You're a real sac of rocks kinda guy.

“I see quantum effects”

Since: Jan 11

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#642730
Jul 19, 2013
 
RiversideRedneck wrote:
<quoted text>It was a test of his biblical knowledge. One he desperately failed.
You fail at the English language then.

“I see quantum effects”

Since: Jan 11

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#642731
Jul 19, 2013
 
RiversideRedneck wrote:
<quoted text>If you were a little less ignorant, you'd understand.
Yeah.

Ok.

“I see quantum effects”

Since: Jan 11

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#642732
Jul 19, 2013
 
RiversideRedneck wrote:
<quoted text>We now have a Comitee on Bible Translation...

http://www.niv-cbt.org/

...thats responsible for any and all translations of the Bible to be as accurate as possible. All proposed changes are studied and examined by committee members, discussed and voted on. Changes are not made easily.
Lol.

Seriously?

A committee?!

“I see quantum effects”

Since: Jan 11

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#642733
Jul 19, 2013
 
Al Garcia wrote:
<quoted text>Silly goose. You won't find him on Topix.

"Draw near to God, and he will draw near to you." (James 4:8)

I'm sure that in the past you've had a personal disappointment with God as some on here have told me and I'm really truly sorry to hear that.

The fact that you're very knowledgable in the Bible and the fact that you keep digging at others that believe tells me that deep down you're truly digging to find him instead.

No my friend, you won't find him on Topix.
You'll only find him in your heart but only if you're ready and only if you let him.

I really would prefer civil to you as I see something there that maybe you don't. I see someone looking for answers as I do but from a different perspective.

Good luck friend and I wish you the best on your search.

AL
I'm seriously disappointed on your first paragraph.

I haven't seen that particular argument, which was one of the most common, since I first started on here.

You can do better Al.

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