Prove there's a god.

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“I speak my mind”

Since: Sep 10

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#642188
Jul 17, 2013
 
timn17 wrote:
<quoted text>Wow. Did you really ignore my reply again? I'm beginning to believe this is intentional. I will post it one more time, and after that I'm giving up. You are focusing on my one off reply to your obnoxious remarks, not the bulk of my argument.
I suppose my false dichotomy earlier wasn't really false.
One thing though - no, enforcement is not "directly related" to drug abuse. First of all, your example conflates a criminal issue with drug enforcement. Driving drunk and hurting others is a criminal act, and therefore not related to what I mean when I say drug enforcement. Drug enforcement includes the billions spent on busting small time pot users; setting up stings to catch coke dealers; raiding pot dispensaries; paramilitary swat teams that run raids against nonviolent individuals and, as an added bonus, sometimes break into the wrong house and kill elderly people. That's enforcement. Drunk driving is criminal. Drug use is a vice. Learn the difference.
The post that you are *supposed* to be responding to will follow shortly.
LOL...so in your opinion...none of these drug related issues that require the use of drug enforcement...should be included in drug related costs by the government? And this is the argument you are presenting against my post about me not wanting my tax dollars to go toward paying for increased social programs and/or Medicaid/Medicare dollars toward the abusers rehabilitation? Seriously?

I really love how you add "paramilitary swat teams that run raids against nonviolent individuals" as if it makes a difference if the person is violent or not. If someone is selling drugs, violent or not, they should have a swat team go in and take them down. i mean seriously now you want the government to spend millions to rehabilitate the users but you think they should leave the dealers out on the streets just because they aren't violent? See we're different Timn...you seem to lack foresight...I mean if we leave the non-violent dealer on the street do you think he/she is gonna say..."oh don't try to sell to that guy...he just got out of rehab." Let me answer that for you...That ain't happening! The dealer is going straight to that person or sending a flunky to do it...they know just a little enticement and they're getting another paycheck. Then...all that money you advocate spending on rehab goes right back down the drain. Foresight...it's imperative when attacking an issue as widespread and out of control as drug abuse.

As for your smart remark about the drunk driver....You can call me stupid and ignorant all day long...as you did in another post...but who in God's name do you think you're fooling by stating..."Drunk driving is criminal. Drug use is a vice" as if drug addicts never commit crimes that affect innocent people negatively...or like drug abusers never get behind the wheel and end up killing innocent people. If that ain't the epitome of the pot calling the kettle black...I don't know what is. Anyway, since you're being petty...I'll clarify that...replace drunk with substance abuse (non-alcoholic related)... However, if you go back and review the whole conversation...you'll find where I also mention my distaste on how alcoholism and drug abuse is now considered a "disease" and these people are receiving federal disability or state funded Medicaid, which pays for their care. I have a real problem with that. I'll find your next post and respond accordingly.:)

Since: Sep 10

San Francisco, CA

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#642189
Jul 17, 2013
 

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Dave Nelson wrote:
<quoted text>
You are a pushbutton liberal. They push a button and you squawk on cue. It is interesting how you people demonize in chorus.
My high school was 85% black. I lived 2 blocks from MLK Park in Miami for years before and many more after it became that. I taught a few neighborhood kids to shoot. They were black. My son flew cross country to the retirement from the Navy of one of them recently. I've been in the middle of the most violent places in the county in the middle of the night many, many times. I lived for 5 years in New Orleans, and not in a privileged section of it. I walked through it. No car.
"Some of my best friends are Negroes."

“Don't be so dichotomous.”

Since: Jan 11

Embrace the grey.

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#642190
Jul 17, 2013
 
timn17 wrote:
Zimmerman was not having his brains beat out. I think that we should be a little more critical of the guy who was stalking a child with a gun. Especially when the physical evidence does not support his claims. He had a few scratches - not consistent with "25 to 30 punches to his face" and his head being "smashed into the concrete over ten times."
I don't know what Texas is going to do to reclaim the title of The Worst State, but you know it's coming.

Since: Sep 08

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#642191
Jul 17, 2013
 

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Catcher1 wrote:
<quoted text>
"Some of my best friends are Negroes."
And some of your best clients.

I've seen them as people. And lived with them.

You have seen them as dollar signs financing your gated community living.

Open your gates. Let them come visit.

“I speak my mind”

Since: Sep 10

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#642192
Jul 17, 2013
 
Double Fine wrote:
<quoted text>
Omg, you should do something about your son. Had the Bible had 11 commandments, the 11th would have been "thou shall not make or listen to rap music"
That song, can you believe, is from 1992, off the album "Images and Words". Dream Theater is brilliant. In terms of talent, no band has the same pedigree. They have the fastest base player (John Myung), fastest keyboardist (Jordan Rudess), fastest drummer (Used to be the legendary Mike Portnoy, now it is the incredible Mike Mangini), ninth fastest guitarist (The god, John Petrucci) and a vocalist with a four octave range (James Labrie). They are known for elaborate and over the top individual performances. They would play a song, live, and suddenly put in a five minute guitar solo. Why? Because they can.
Listen to these songs, also by Dream Theater
As I am
The Answer Lies Within
Endless Sacrifice
Under a glass moon
Constant Motion
Comfortably Numb (Floyd cover)
Honor thy Father
On the backs of angels
Octavarium
They seldom make a song less then 6 minutes in length. Most of their stuff is about 10-15 minutes of orgasmic instrumental mastery. Longest song? 42 minutes. I have never ever seen any band as intent on achieving perfection. They would do a three hour show, and nobody misses one note, nobody skips one beat. They are inhuman, and true metal gods.
Okay..this may be a duplicate, because I tried to respond earlier today on this from my phone...but I don't think it went through...Anyway...this morning I was listening to Constant Motion and my son walked by me...he gave me this odd look, then went on by and headed up the stairs toward his bedroom. Then I hear him yell at his sister, "I think mom's going through a mid-life crisis...she's listening to 80s metal bands!" A few minutes passed, then he yells at me..."mom..I'm trumping your music with mine...you need to be listening to some modern feel good music"...or something to that effect...then he proceeds to blast from his IHOME..."BLurred Lines" by Robin Thicke no Pharrell Williams...

http://m.vevo.com/watch/robin-thicke/blurred-...

This...DF...is my life and why I'm so versatile when it comes to music...lol!

I actually like the song! But Constant Motion was pretty awesome too!

Since: Nov 12

Elk Grove, CA

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#642193
Jul 17, 2013
 

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timn17 wrote:
<quoted text>Yeah. Or maybe it's the belief that the world is our dominion and that it doesn't matter what we do to it cause jeebus is a coming soon.
Then it would matter what we do.

Since: Nov 12

Elk Grove, CA

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#642194
Jul 17, 2013
 

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timn17 wrote:
<quoted text>I don't think I could formulate a worse argument if I tried.
Most likely you can't formulate an argument at all.

Since: Sep 11

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#642195
Jul 17, 2013
 
Dave Nelson wrote:
<quoted text>
You are a pushbutton liberal. They push a button and you squawk on cue. It is interesting how you people demonize in chorus.
My high school was 85% black. I lived 2 blocks from MLK Park in Miami for years before and many more after it became that. I taught a few neighborhood kids to shoot. They were black. My son flew cross country to the retirement from the Navy of one of them recently. I've been in the middle of the most violent places in the county in the middle of the night many, many times. I lived for 5 years in New Orleans, and not in a privileged section of it. I walked through it. No car.
Now, what is your experience with people from the hood? Other than reading liberal rags?
Really? We're swapping "hood stories" now? Seriously?

First of all, not all black people are "people from the hood." Second of all, being around black people does not make you less racist. Third, I have associated with many black people, and I do not relegate them to the category of "hood people" in my mind like you do.

I'm not demonizing you. I am simply willing to bet that if the races were swapped - a mixed race white being murdered by a black guy - you would be singing a different tune. Imagine this - a black guy sees a "suspicious individual," follows him around after being told not to, exits his vehicle with a gun to confront said individual, and then ends up killing him. He claims self defense based on a few scratches - the result of a "savage beating:" 20-25 punches to the face and over ten concrete/head bashes. His injuries are not even slightly consistent with his claims.

It would be laughed out of court.

Since: Nov 12

Elk Grove, CA

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#642196
Jul 17, 2013
 

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SumTingWong wrote:
<quoted text>
Are you sure you're not retarded- just a little bit?
I suspect that people develope deep-seeded negative views toward God based on how they have been treated.

“I speak my mind”

Since: Sep 10

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#642197
Jul 17, 2013
 

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timn17 wrote:
<quoted text>641542 is the most recent.
Okay...I went back and responded to this one and in it you said you'd post another for me to respond to...but your next two posts were:

641980=
timn17 wrote:
<quoted text>I give up
And
641991=
timn17 wrote:
<quoted text>On getting you to acknowledge the response I posted 3 times.
I may still be overlooking...I mean I did overlook 641542..,but there are a lot of posts to go through...so if I'm missing another...you'll have to let me know the numbers on it too. If #641542 is your response to this last post of mine:

timn17 wrote:
<quoted text>You could not boil down the issue to "you must disagree with me because of x or y, there is no other possibility." The assertion that the only reason someone might disagree with you on the drug war is either unemployment or an "enjoyment of footing the bill," is nonsensical.
What's the other possibility?
timn17 wrote:
<quoted text>
Furthermore, one does not need to "enjoy footing the bill for irresponsible people" to accept the fact that a part of living in a civilized society is the responsibility to care for those less fortunate than us.
We aren't talking about the less fortunate...we're talking about drub abusers...They aren't exactly synonymous.
timn17 wrote:
<quoted text>
Do you really think that the only people who advocate for increased social programs are unemployed/disenfranchised, or that they have a society wide codependent relationship with every addict in the country? That's just ignorant, pure and simple.
. Well....since I never made any such statement or even implied such...the answer would be NO. Please stay focused on the conversation at hand. We weren't discussing ALL social programs. There are a vast number of social programs that I advocate...just not those that pertain to DRUG ABUSERS.
timn17 wrote:
<quoted text>
And yes, you were being dishonest. You attempted to insult me, and then placed the blame on me for interpreting it as an insult.
Again, I'm sorry you were insulted...but No, that wasn't my intent...if neither option pertains to you..then please..explain yourself. And try not to use ALL social programs in your defense...again, our conversation is not regarding social programs to help...the less fortunate...but the drug abusers.
timn17 wrote:
<quoted text>Here's one: you're a christian - that means you're either stupid or willfully ignorant. No other possibilities.
False dichotomies are pretty stupid, right?/QUOTE]
Here's one for you...If calling me stupid and ignorant makes you more intelligent...then by all means..carry on..you'll have to be the judge of whether or not it worked.
timn17 wrote:
<quo ted text>
For everything else, including proof that "footing the bill" for addicts is cheaper and more beneficial than the revolving door prison system we currently have, please refer to my earlier post that I just re posted for you. I am eagerly awaiting to see how you respond in the face of a clear, factual refutation of your backwards, cruel position.
I already provided a link or two which clearly shows footing the bill for drug abusers is not cheaper. The revolving door for the relapsed abusers who return to rehab centers or the ER is a directly related drug abuse cost whether you like it or not. And the last time I checked...the cost of police enforcement and ambulance services is also directly related. I don't see everyday citizens dragging those alcoholic drivers out from behind the wheel after they crashed into an innocent family and killed two children very often...do you?

Then....perhaps you should give up

“THE LORD IS MY SHEPHERD;”

Since: Apr 09

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#642198
Jul 17, 2013
 

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New Age Spiritual Leader wrote:
<quoted text>
First off, correct, I can believe anything I choose, just like you. The only difference with this, I don't believe that men can define an infallible entity and you do.
Do you believe in an infallible entity? I agree, men can only muster up what there own perception of God is, but for a human to fully comprehend and understand the power and nature of God, is futile. Our minds cant even begin to phathom the power/energy and force of the almighty!! Those who penned down the Words of the "original text" of the OT and NT, can only descibe what they have seen and what was revealed to them by God.
I also don't assume anything from so-called "Christians", because many times youor ilk don't even know what they are talking about
And what makes you any different? Just because you are an Atheist, some how gives you the authority to claim you know what you are talking about, and what you say is truth??? That the "knowledge you now claim to have was not giving by "some other" fallible human??? Please, spare me the BS.
, and when they try to convey thoughts upon the subject matter being discussed, they'll do what you have - give reasons on why they don't have to prove something, all the while knowing deep inside themselves, that they are being dishonest.
Although many so-called "Christians" have solidified that they believe the whole Bible, one important aspect of this is that they can't prove certain aspects of their religion, thus continue to believe them to be true, based only upon what men have given them to believe. Are you going to deny this truth as well?
As for the last verses of Mark 16:9-20 goes, yes from what i have read and researched, they say it was not done by the hand of Mark, the origanl writer. Now can i honestly explain to you why that is? No. Nonetheless, ther latter part of it reflects the inspired teaching of Jesus, and for "me" that's sufficent along with what God has done for me!
These facts about you and your beliefs are true, but you will find a way to avoid these truths and facts, because it goes against what you have been taught to believe.
Yes, for example - you and your half-belief in what Jesus taught, your belief in less than half of the original 13 Apostles, the total disregard of many "laws" within the Bible, and placing "Paul" as more of an authoritive on "God" than Jesus.
- basically, in your life, "what doesn't apply to you, doesn't apply to you", and all the while, disregarding these facts about those particular beliefs as the "truth".
Your dishonesty is beginning to show itself.
You dont know me, and have "no facts" about me, you assume much..

I believe what the Spirit of God reveals to me to be true, and to not lean on to my own understanding, and those of the opposite. Especially, one who doesnt even believe in God.

“I speak my mind”

Since: Sep 10

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#642199
Jul 17, 2013
 

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Covert Stealth Op wrote:
<quoted text>Usually when a person chimes 'I give up', it is a sign that their attempts to control have failed and they are frustrated.
Timn...frustrated? nah...couldn't be.

Since: Sep 11

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#642200
Jul 17, 2013
 

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Truth signed in wrote:
<quoted text>
snipped for space
I really love how you add "paramilitary swat teams that run raids against nonviolent individuals" as if it makes a difference if the person is violent or not. If someone is selling drugs, violent or not, they should have a swat team go in and take them down. i mean seriously now you want the government to spend millions to rehabilitate the users but you think they should leave the dealers out on the streets just because they aren't violent? See we're different Timn...you seem to lack foresight...I mean if we leave the non-violent dealer on the street do you think he/she is gonna say..."oh don't try to sell to that guy...he just got out of rehab." Let me answer that for you...That ain't happening! The dealer is going straight to that person or sending a flunky to do it...they know just a little enticement and they're getting another paycheck. Then...all that money you advocate spending on rehab goes right back down the drain. Foresight...it's imperative when attacking an issue as widespread and out of control as drug abuse.
As for your smart remark about the drunk driver....You can call me stupid and ignorant all day long...as you did in another post...but who in God's name do you think you're fooling by stating..."Drunk driving is criminal. Drug use is a vice" as if drug addicts never commit crimes that affect innocent people negatively...or like drug abusers never get behind the wheel and end up killing innocent people. If that ain't the epitome of the pot calling the kettle black...I don't know what is. Anyway, since you're being petty...I'll clarify that...replace drunk with substance abuse (non-alcoholic related)... However, if you go back and review the whole conversation...you'll find where I also mention my distaste on how alcoholism and drug abuse is now considered a "disease" and these people are receiving federal disability or state funded Medicaid, which pays for their care. I have a real problem with that. I'll find your next post and respond accordingly.:)
You ignored the relevant post, for the fourth time. This can't be an accident. I'm going to post it one more time.

A few points (but please, please do not ignore my repost *again*).

- No, drug enforcement should not be included in "drug costs." Drug enforcement is not a natural consequence of drug abuse. Drug enforcement is a result of the state enforcing morality and punishing vice.

- Why should a swat team be used against a nonviolent individual? A criminal can be apprehended without the use of a swat team - explain to me why it's necessary to use military force against the citizenry.

-Rehab money does not go "down the drain." If you would stop ignoring the post I have directed you towards over and over and over, you would have known by now that rehab has been found to offset the cost of drug abuse to society by a 1 to 3 ratio in terms of dollars spent.

-Foresight. Yes, it is imperative, in that we realize that we have been escalating this war for 30 years with no results, and that our only hope is to try a different tactic.

-I did not call you stupid or ignorant outright, I made a false dichotomy of those two terms to illustrate to you how stupid false dichotomies are. I guess that went over your head.

- Yes.. driving while under the influence of a substance is a crime. Obviously. You are conflating the substance with the acts committed in pursuit of the substance or while under the influence of it. These are what's called "costs to society," and they are offset by rehab, which you would know if you would have read my earlier post. It's unfortunate that some people do stupid things, but that is no reason to continue with a policy of prohibition that has never once worked in the history of civilization.

“THE LORD IS MY SHEPHERD;”

Since: Apr 09

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#642201
Jul 17, 2013
 

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Myth Buster wrote:
<quoted text>
You really should study evolution and attempt to learn instead of making a complete ass of yourself on an international forum with your willful ignorance of science, kid.
You should really stop posting to me, because you are reavling your willingly ignorant hypocisy for all to see!!

Remember? You are suppose to shunn me and others like me...
Live what ya preach, mouth blister...

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#642202
Jul 17, 2013
 

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timn17 wrote:
<quoted text>Really? We're swapping "hood stories" now? Seriously?
First of all, not all black people are "people from the hood." Second of all, being around black people does not make you less racist. Third, I have associated with many black people, and I do not relegate them to the category of "hood people" in my mind like you do.
I'm not demonizing you. I am simply willing to bet that if the races were swapped - a mixed race white being murdered by a black guy - you would be singing a different tune. Imagine this - a black guy sees a "suspicious individual," follows him around after being told not to, exits his vehicle with a gun to confront said individual, and then ends up killing him. He claims self defense based on a few scratches - the result of a "savage beating:" 20-25 punches to the face and over ten concrete/head bashes. His injuries are not even slightly consistent with his claims.
It would be laughed out of court.
No I wouldn't. Zimmerman had the injuries. He didn't draw first blood.

The law is you try to avoid confrontations before using deadly force to end them. The law required Martin to try and get away. Stand your ground only comes into play after an attack. He attacked for a purely emotional reason. He would not have attacked with a gun pointed at him. Zimmerman would not have wound up on the ground if he had a mind to physically assault a "child".

You are feeding racism. Do you make money from it like Catcher does?

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#642204
Jul 17, 2013
 
Note - the above argument is mostly based on cost. We haven't even gotten into the morality of locking people up for committing a vice and falling victim to a disease.

Strange that most modern countries are moving away from prohibition, eh?

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#642205
Jul 17, 2013
 
Aura Mytha wrote:
<quoted text> We are not talking about Zimmerman except in comparison., AND
There isn't any.
Ok. I was just saying that he definitely was not getting his brains beaten in.

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#642206
Jul 17, 2013
 
Tide with Beach wrote:
<quoted text>
I don't know what Texas is going to do to reclaim the title of The Worst State, but you know it's coming.
Definitely. It'll most likely be in the form of a very tenuous execution of a possibly innocent man. That's their specialty.

“ The Lord of delirious minds.”

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#642207
Jul 17, 2013
 

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timn17 wrote:
<quoted text>Ok. I was just saying that he definitely was not getting his brains beaten in.

You know this because you were there?
Or you think this because you have an opinion based on media coverage? Were you an eye witness?

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#642208
Jul 17, 2013
 
Dave Nelson wrote:
<quoted text>
And some of your best clients.
I've seen them as people. And lived with them.
You have seen them as dollar signs financing your gated community living.
Open your gates. Let them come visit.
Write a book about your experiences with them. So few have returned to tell the tale, you must share your knowledge. Here:

Working title: "The mystical negro: a story of electro-blackness."

Publisher's blurb: "Dave returns from his soujurn into the dark and musty world of the much maligned 'negro creature,' the so called hood, with fantastic stories that at once illuminate their striking humanity and their unrestrained animal nature."

Choice excerpts:

"Yeah, my best friend is definitely black."

"You like my shoes? Huh?"

"No, negro, you must swallow the magnet first! Savages!"

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