Prove there's a god.
uidiotRaceMAKEWO RLDPEACE

United States

#640586 Jul 14, 2013
oneear69 wrote:
<quoted text>I think your version of history is a bit biased, The earliest such railroad, built from Quincy, Mass. to the Neponset River dates from 1826, and in the next year another was built in Pennsylvania from the coal mines in Carbon County to the Lehigh River
Between the Rocky Mountains and the States lying along the Mississippi River on the west, from Minnesota to Louisiana, the whole country was one vast buffalo range, inhabited by millions of buffaloes. One could fill a volume with the records of plainsmen and pioneers who penetrated or crossed that vast region between 1800 and 1870, and were in turn surprised, astounded, and frequently dismayed by the tens of thousands of buffaloes they observed, avoided, or escaped from. They lived and moved as no other quadrupeds ever have, in great multitudes, like grand armies in review, covering scores of square miles at once. They were so numerous they frequently stopped boats in the rivers, threatened to overwhelm travelers on the plains, and in later years derailed locomotives and cars, until railway engineers learned by experience the wisdom of stopping their trains whenever there were buffaloes crossing the track.
The primary cause of the buffalo's extermination, and the one which embraced all others, was the descent of civilization, with all its elements of destructiveness, upon the whole of the country inhabited by that animal. From the Great Slave Lake to the Rio Grande the home of the buffalo was everywhere overrun by the man with a gun; and, as has ever been the case, the wild creatures were gradually swept away, the largest and most conspicuous forms being the first to go.
The secondary cuases of the extermination of the buffalo may be catalogued as follows:
(1) Man's reckless greed, his wanton destructiveness, and improvidence in not husbanding such resources as come to him from the hand of nature ready made.(2) The total and utterly inexcusable absence of protective measures and agencies on the part of the National Government and of the Western States and Territories.(3) The fatal preference on the part of hunters generally, both white and red, for the robe and flesh of the cow over that furnished by the bull,(4) The phenomenal stupidity of the animals themselves, and their indifference to man.(5) The perfection of modern breech-loading rifles and other sporting fire-arms in general...
Better rethink the Redman did NOT kill for sport but for food only if necessary! The greedy White man are real invaders and mass murders of the many Bison aand Indians!

Since: Sep 11

Location hidden

#640587 Jul 14, 2013
Truth signed in wrote:
<quoted text>
I do focus on the beginning and still hold that "believes" is the key word...because they aren't saying we believe something to be true because we "have" clear evidence...they are saying we believe X provides clear evidence. Does that make sense?
I mean to say "provides clear evidence" is the key statement without focusing on the fact that only believe X provides clear evidence, is misleading. How different would that statement be if they had said, "The research team (found) the presence of amino acids in these meteorites (providing) clear evidence that the early solar system was richer in life&#146;s raw materials than previously thought and that these materials may have helped to kick-start life on this planet."
I don't know how scientists talk...but as a lay person...that would sufficiently ease some of my skepticism. The fact that they only "believe" the presence of amino acids provides evidence...and do not know...leads to greater skepticism.
As for making an authoritative pronouncement such as "there's no way abiogenesis occured"...well to be honest, I don't believe, until science can provide evidence to the contrary, it would take a scientist to conclude that. On most scientific theories, hypotheses, and/or ideas...yes, I agree, one might need a fairly decent background in science in order to argue. But, on Abiogenesis...I don't necessarily agree, considering what the idea proposes. I mean any lay individual can pretty well figure out, just from observation of nature...non-living things don't suddenly spring into life. When science can give the world a reason to believe otherwise, even it's it's just a singular event, then....yes...one might have to retract such a staement.
But...to prevent coming off as insulting, which I really don't want to do...I'll say this..."I don't believe science can demonstrate that".
:)
Every natural scientist from before plato up until a few centuries ago would like a word with you. It used to be quite obvious that life sprung from non life all the time. You owe your knowledge of the falsity of spontaneous generation to modern science.

My point being - no, the average lay person is not a reasonable authority on whether or not something is possible. The average lay person would have believed in spontaneous generation a few centuries ago (so did the scientists), and we now know that it doesn't happen because of modern science.

Since: Sep 11

Location hidden

#640588 Jul 14, 2013
timn17 wrote:
<quoted text>Every natural scientist from before plato up until a few centuries ago would like a word with you. It used to be quite obvious that life sprung from non life all the time. You owe your knowledge of the falsity of spontaneous generation to modern science.
My point being - no, the average lay person is not a reasonable authority on whether or not something is possible. The average lay person would have believed in spontaneous generation a few centuries ago (so did the scientists), and we now know that it doesn't happen because of modern science.
If we go off what appears "obvious" to the lay person, then it is quite obvious that life comes from non life. Leave some meat out for a few days. Poof - life appears on it.

Since: Oct 10

Location hidden

#640589 Jul 14, 2013
Here is something to keep in mind as you read this article. Ask yourself this question. Could historic passages have been forged? Could the volumes of the historians have been tampered with? The answer is: yes they could have. Where were these historic volumes stored? In the local public library? In individuals' private homes? No. They were in the posession of the Church, who studied from them and made copies of them. In what form did these writings take? On a typeset page, bound like a modern book? No. The printing press was not invented for a further 1300 years. The fact that the Church could write means that the forgeries could have been made. The Church had the opportunity, the means, and the motive to forge historical documents.

This simple truth is widely admitted by Christian scholars. One case in point is our first example: Josephus Flavius, a famous historian. There are two alleged mentions of Jesus in his histories. The first of them, the more extensive and more famous one, is no longer quoted by Christian scholars. That is because they know it is a blatant Christian forgery. The second passage is still in use.

"Josephus, the renowned Jewish historian, was a native of Judea. He was born in 37 A. D., and was a contemporary of the Apostles. He was, for a time, Governor of Galilee, the province in which Christ lived and taught. He traversed every part of this province and visited the places where but a generation before Christ had performed his prodigies. He resided in Cana, the very city in which Christ is said to have wrought his first miracle. He mentions every noted personage of Palestine and describes every important event which occurred there during the first seventy years of the Christian era. But Christ was of too little consequence and his deeds too trivial to merit a line from this historian's pen." (Remsberg, Ibid.)

But first things first. Josephus was not a contemporary historian. He was born in the year 37 C.E., several years after Jesus' alleged death. There is no way he could have known about Jesus from is own personal experience. At best, he could have recorded the activities of the new cult of Christianity, and what they said about their crucified leader. So, even if Josephus wrote about Jesus, it is not a credible source. The first "Jesus Passage" is discussed below. The paragraph on Jesus was added to Josephus's work at the beginning of the 4th century, during Constantine's reign, probably by or under the order of Bishop Eusebius, who was known for saying that it was permissible for Christians to lie in order to further the Kingdom of God. This behavior is justified directly in the New Testament, where Paul writes in the 3rd Chapter of Romans: "For if the truth of God hath more abounded through my lie unto his glory, why yet am I also judged as a sinner?"
UidiotRaceMAKEWO RLDPEACE

United States

#640590 Jul 14, 2013
oneear69 wrote:
Here is something to keep in mind as you read this article. Ask yourself this question. Could historic passages have been forged? Could the volumes of the historians have been tampered with? The answer is: yes they could have. Where were these historic volumes stored? In the local public library? In individuals' private homes? No. They were in the posession of the Church, who studied from them and made copies of them. In what form did these writings take? On a typeset page, bound like a modern book? No. The printing press was not invented for a further 1300 years. The fact that the Church could write means that the forgeries could have been made. The Church had the opportunity, the means, and the motive to forge historical documents.
This simple truth is widely admitted by Christian scholars. One case in point is our first example: Josephus Flavius, a famous historian. There are two alleged mentions of Jesus in his histories. The first of them, the more extensive and more famous one, is no longer quoted by Christian scholars. That is because they know it is a blatant Christian forgery. The second passage is still in use.
"Josephus, the renowned Jewish historian, was a native of Judea. He was born in 37 A. D., and was a contemporary of the Apostles. He was, for a time, Governor of Galilee, the province in which Christ lived and taught. He traversed every part of this province and visited the places where but a generation before Christ had performed his prodigies. He resided in Cana, the very city in which Christ is said to have wrought his first miracle. He mentions every noted personage of Palestine and describes every important event which occurred there during the first seventy years of the Christian era. But Christ was of too little consequence and his deeds too trivial to merit a line from this historian's pen." (Remsberg, Ibid.)
But first things first. Josephus was not a contemporary historian. He was born in the year 37 C.E., several years after Jesus' alleged death. There is no way he could have known about Jesus from is own personal experience. At best, he could have recorded the activities of the new cult of Christianity, and what they said about their crucified leader. So, even if Josephus wrote about Jesus, it is not a credible source. The first "Jesus Passage" is discussed below. The paragraph on Jesus was added to Josephus's work at the beginning of the 4th century, during Constantine's reign, probably by or under the order of Bishop Eusebius, who was known for saying that it was permissible for Christians to lie in order to further the Kingdom of God. This behavior is justified directly in the New Testament, where Paul writes in the 3rd Chapter of Romans: "For if the truth of God hath more abounded through my lie unto his glory, why yet am I also judged as a sinner?"
Christian fundamentalist prevades in the US militaristic Imperialist interventionist - good or bad?

“What game?”

Since: Oct 10

Location hidden

#640591 Jul 14, 2013
scaritual wrote:
<quoted text>
<RiversideRedneck> "nnNNN...MANO...?"
I've said all I have to say on that matter. Well, probably not but it's dinner time now.

Since: Oct 10

Location hidden

#640592 Jul 14, 2013
uidiotRaceMAKEWORLDPEACE wrote:
<quoted text>Better rethink the Redman did NOT kill for sport but for food only if necessary! The greedy White man are real invaders and mass murders of the many Bison aand Indians!
I do not look for blame,when studying history, just the facts,Native Americans also slaughtered the bison for wholesale once they got the rifle, for food and the fur trade. While there is no doubt great atrocities and the theft of land is also a part of our history, The history of all mankind is all of ours to learn from. As human beings and critical thinkers, we are all just as equally responsible for our actions towards each other and our environment.Learn from the past,to change today, for a better tomorrow, Good morning, good day, good night, Be water my friends , be water, the answer is clearly 42

“Listen to the sounds”

Since: Feb 09

of your own extinction......

#640593 Jul 14, 2013
Double Fine wrote:
<quoted text>
Yo TT.
You are a Ph.D candidate Chemical Engineer, yes?
Can you please describe to us an experiment/product made, within your field of expertise, where you say "agh, screw it... Let us do it on the fly!"
Just asking
:)
Woop woop Stormers!
Hmm, perhaps just mixing cement to build a small wall that's not load bearing. You can use almost any cement, use trial and error to mix the water and get consistency, and build the wall. Anything more than that, the cement composition will have to be investigated, along with optimum water content.

Bulls got smashed hey!

Since: Oct 10

Location hidden

#640594 Jul 14, 2013
UidiotRaceMAKEWORLDPEACE wrote:
<quoted text> Christian fundamentalist prevades in the US militaristic Imperialist interventionist - good or bad?
God, Glory, and Guns my friend.
UidiotRaceMAKEWO RLDPEACE

United States

#640595 Jul 14, 2013
oneear69 wrote:
<quoted text>God, Glory, and Guns my friend.
bad! Keep religion out of Military and out of politics - Serious you need to think bro
UidiotRaceMAKEWO RLDPEACE

United States

#640596 Jul 14, 2013
later or whenever!Q out 69

“e pluribus unum”

Since: Dec 10

primus inter pares

#640597 Jul 14, 2013
timn17 wrote:
<quoted text>If we go off what appears "obvious" to the lay person, then it is quite obvious that life comes from non life. Leave some meat out for a few days. Poof - life appears on it.
Don't confuse the failed hypothesis of abiogenesis with the modern day versions of biopoiesis theory of abiogenesis.

http://www.britannica.com/EBchecked/topic/661...

Or the The Oparin-Haldane theory, amongst other flavors of panspermia and chemical origins of life.
Which are completely different trains of thought.
Which creationist's will love to confuse between modern biochemistry and the origins and biosynthesis of life, with a medieval superstition concerning the appearance of maggots in rotting corpses.

“First it steals your mind..”

Since: Jun 11

..and then it steals your soul

#640598 Jul 14, 2013
True Truth wrote:
<quoted text>
Hmm, perhaps just mixing cement to build a small wall that's not load bearing. You can use almost any cement, use trial and error to mix the water and get consistency, and build the wall. Anything more than that, the cement composition will have to be investigated, along with optimum water content.
Bulls got smashed hey!
Yes!!

But it actually annoys me. We have whipped the asses of all 3 of the conference leaders. When the Stormers are on song, they are the best in the tourney.

But why play this kind of game after elimination??

“Listen to the sounds”

Since: Feb 09

of your own extinction......

#640599 Jul 14, 2013
timn17 wrote:
<quoted text>And your idea turns the state into a god. There exists no possible society in which the government can provide such excellent service that no one will have to turn to crime to survive. I doubt there exists a government that could even prevent a significant portion of the population from turning to crime at some point or another.
And so your "balanced state" will be nothing but a bunch of "haves" congratulating themselves on weeding out, via execution and dismemberment, the "have nots," who clearly turned to crime because of some innate evil, not because of external conditions.
You are thinking in extremes. I do not believe in a government chopping hands because of some $2 pirate DVD, or some murder based on temporary insanity and what not. There are people holding comfortable jobs, earn well, yet steal millions. Now clearly the person is a "have", he doesn't need to steal, and yet he steals millions. Those people need to be chopped. You have these drug dealers, living lavishly, making a career out of crime, a career out of destroying others lives, ordering hits on whoever wants to speak out, they need to be killed.

One has to look at circumstances. While I believe in having the death penalty and hand chopping, I do not believe it to be the punishment of choice for most instances of theft or murder.

Since: Sep 11

Location hidden

#640600 Jul 14, 2013
Aura Mytha wrote:
<quoted text>
Don't confuse the failed hypothesis of abiogenesis with the modern day versions of biopoiesis theory of abiogenesis.
http://www.britannica.com/EBchecked/topic/661...
Or the The Oparin-Haldane theory, amongst other flavors of panspermia and chemical origins of life.
Which are completely different trains of thought.
Which creationist's will love to confuse between modern biochemistry and the origins and biosynthesis of life, with a medieval superstition concerning the appearance of maggots in rotting corpses.
I know - I was making the point that intuition is not always the best indicator of truth - in response to truth's claim that she, as a lay person, could reasonably ascertain the likelihood of abiogenesis.

“First it steals your mind..”

Since: Jun 11

..and then it steals your soul

#640601 Jul 14, 2013
UidiotRaceMAKEWORLDPEACE wrote:
<quoted text>bad! Keep religion out of Military and out of politics - Serious you need to think bro
Except when the worshippers pray to Double Fine

“What game?”

Since: Oct 10

Location hidden

#640602 Jul 14, 2013
Double Fine wrote:
<quoted text>
Except when the worshippers pray to Double Fine
We all pray to Double Fine.

Duh

Since: Sep 11

Location hidden

#640603 Jul 14, 2013
I want all the religious folk here to watch this video. It might help you to understand what "we" mean when we say that religious belief and all that it entails often feels surreal and absurd.



Go to about 41 min in.

Then ask yourself this: 2 thousand years from now, if people are still "worshiping" this guy, would it be any less absurd than your religion?

This is not to denigrate religion - if you are fulfilled by your belief, it doesn't negatively affect your life, and you don't try to force it on others, there's not much I can say about it - it's just to give you a perspective on what it feels like to be on the outside looking in. You'll understand once you watch the video.

Since: Sep 11

Location hidden

#640604 Jul 14, 2013
True Truth wrote:
<quoted text>
You are thinking in extremes. I do not believe in a government chopping hands because of some $2 pirate DVD, or some murder based on temporary insanity and what not. There are people holding comfortable jobs, earn well, yet steal millions. Now clearly the person is a "have", he doesn't need to steal, and yet he steals millions. Those people need to be chopped. You have these drug dealers, living lavishly, making a career out of crime, a career out of destroying others lives, ordering hits on whoever wants to speak out, they need to be killed.
One has to look at circumstances. While I believe in having the death penalty and hand chopping, I do not believe it to be the punishment of choice for most instances of theft or murder.
I am not thinking in extremes - obviously there are exceptions to every rule, but on the whole, your proposition is impossible and would only create a society in which the have nots are culled by the haves. Some might be truly "evil" and deserving of punishment, some might have turned to crime out of necessity, and some might be wrongly convicted. Either way, there is no way for a non post scarcity society to be so perfect that only the "bad guys" commit crime, and there is no appeal available for the dead father who stole repeatedly to feed his family, or the no luck guy who gets wrongly convicted.

“e pluribus unum”

Since: Dec 10

primus inter pares

#640605 Jul 14, 2013
Double Fine wrote:
<quoted text>
Except when the worshippers pray to Double Fine
Oh thou art greatness of double fine , and I think of it when ever I see the twin peaks of her majesty or when I ask for the ice cream.
I always say 2 scoops will be fine please. hehehe

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