Prove there's a god.

“First it steals your mind..”

Since: Jun 11

..and then it steals your soul

#638982 Jul 10, 2013
thewordofme wrote:
<quoted text>
My immediate and exact thought.:-)
Tee hee.

We, it can be argued that that Adam had many ribs. And Christian logic implies that 1 rib = 1 fully formed woman

“Is that all you've got?”

Since: Jun 10

Location hidden

#638984 Jul 10, 2013
thewordofme wrote:
<quoted text>
I don't believe that atheist were the ones saying that.
Catcher1 implied that being a handyman, or blue collar worker was something to be ashamed of; so, yes, it was a self-proclaimed atheist making that comment. Do try harder to follow along.

“Is that all you've got?”

Since: Jun 10

Location hidden

#638985 Jul 10, 2013
Double Fine wrote:
<quoted text>
That, my dear, depends entirely on perspective.
When I need a new wall built, I do not need the lawyer. When I have been incarcerated, I would rather not have the handyman
"Commune" means "to speak intimately with". I would not speak intimately with anyone who's nature is to be snide, but I would speak formally with a snide lawyer, as business protocol requires. I was making the distinction between the two in a social setting, not a business one.

“I speak my mind”

Since: Sep 10

It hurts to bite my tongue

#638986 Jul 10, 2013
Double Fine wrote:
<quoted text>
A story of talking snakes and people living to be 900 years old is not considered 'historical data'
. Perhaps it isn't...but Josephus is considered a historian and is considered as a real person of ancient times.

“Darwin was right..of course.”

Since: Jun 11

Evolution is true.....

#638987 Jul 10, 2013
nanoanomaly wrote:
<quoted text>Catcher1 implied that being a handyman, or blue collar worker was something to be ashamed of; so, yes, it was a self-proclaimed atheist making that comment. Do try harder to follow along.
Sorry I wasn't clearer. His criticism comes from people in history was what I was talking about. Not recent bloggers.

Are we mad at each other??

“I speak my mind”

Since: Sep 10

It hurts to bite my tongue

#638988 Jul 10, 2013
Double Fine wrote:
<quoted text>
Oh.
Where did the other women come from?
I suppose they may have been daughters of Eve or possibly even granddaughters...It's a taboo subject, but hey...it happened...whether it be Adam and Eve with their children or incestuous hominids...

“Is that all you've got?”

Since: Jun 10

Location hidden

#638989 Jul 10, 2013
Al Garcia wrote:
<quoted text>
The nailing or the wood?
The sixpack and Gorilla Glue do it for me. ;)

Since: Sep 11

Location hidden

#638990 Jul 10, 2013
True Truth wrote:
<quoted text>
They work in Saudi Arabia and Dubai. They even have hand chopping laws for repeat offenders. If you borrow money and can't pay back, you could potentially end up in jail. The consequence is that the jewelry shops in town have display stands flowing out onto the pavements, like a flea market. People don't steal. If a person is convicted beyond all doubt for deliberate premeditated killing, they even have an open execution at a police venue if anyone wants to see what happens to murderers.
There is a sign in the airports, "Caution, if you are caught drug trafficking, you will be killed".
It's of course not 100%. Nothing ever is. But having jewelry, 21 carat gold out on tables in the street is something completely unheard of and unthinkable in South Africa.
Roughly 100 to 130 people die each year in Saudi Arabia at the hands of the state, with some years being as low as 30 people dead. Crime rates fluctuate from 60 to 300 crimes per 100 000 people each year.
It all sounds barbaric, but when my parents and I were there, we were living a life we could not even imagine back in South Africa.
It is barbaric. I think that the official statistics from saudi arabia paint an unclear picture, however.

Starting with your claim about theft - it does seem that theft is indeed less of a problem in saudi arabia compared to the rest of the world. However, your assertion that "people don't steal" is false, as theft accounts for 47% of all crime in saudi arabia (in 2002, and it appears that crime has only gone up since then). Nevertheless, I will concede that theft does seem to be less of a problem than usual.

Regarding drugs - this is where your argument falls apart. Saudi arabia boasts the highest level of amphetamine seizures in the entire world, in spite of it's astoundingly barbaric trafficking laws. In 2009, saudi arabia accounted for 21% of all amphetamine seizures - 13554 kg in one year. The next closest was the US with around 7000 kg. So what do these brutal penalties accomplish?

http://deathpenaltynews.blogspot.com/2013/05/...

"The long-term growth in seizures in this region
was driven mainly by seizures in Saudi Arabia, which rose
consistently over the period 2000-2007, reaching 13.9
mt in 2007. Seizures in this country have remained
stable since then, amounting to 12.8 mt in 2008 and
13.4 mt in 2009. Saudi Arabia has a significant consumer market for Captagon tablets. In January 2010,
eight million Captagon pills were confiscated in a single
seizure in Saudi Arabia."

http://www.unodc.org/documents/data-and-analy...

Additionally, there is the potential that many crimes go unreported for various reasons. There's also the strong possibility that, since saudi arabia follows sharia law, many crimes are resolved without any official involvement (and therefore no record keeping). The easiest example, for both possibilities, would be rape - females are often blamed and punished for being raped, making it unlikely they will even report a rape in the first place. As for crimes being resolved without going to the authorities, one needs to look no further than the glorious practice of honor killing, whereby the "crime" of violating the standards of chastity is punished with death. This goes to show that the citizenry is certainly capable of resorting to vigilantism.

http://trueslant.com/nealungerleider/2010/01/...

http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/worldnews/158...

There's also the qutif rape case - a woman was thrown in jail and lashed for being gang raped.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Qatif_rape_case

So, basically, I will grant you that saudi arabia might have a lower crime rate overall, but my main point - that deterrents don't work, is actually bolstered by saudi arabia.

“A sentient umbrella speaks”

Since: Mar 11

Some stable somewhere

#638991 Jul 10, 2013
RiversideRedneck wrote:
<quoted text>
No, I don't. But I do have over 30 years of education in the Christian religion. My dad has a Master's in theology and his dad had a Doctorate.
I know that I have more experience and education with the Bible than people like Dawkins.
And you.
Hey, if you don't know I am what I say I am, how do you know that I don't have more experience than you? How do I know that you have more experience than me?

So far, I haven't seen you provide any interesting or complicated theological positions. That could be my ignorance speaking - or my not-remembering... Wait...maybe you gave one about how all deities are really one, and each religion offers a different way to know the deity/deities? If so, that's pretty sophisticated of you.

“A sentient umbrella speaks”

Since: Mar 11

Some stable somewhere

#638992 Jul 10, 2013
RiversideRedneck wrote:
<quoted text>
Me too. I love the feel of sawdust and the smell of fresh cut lumber.
Yeah. I really, really hate, sometimes, that I have a job sitting in front of a screen for much of it and miss physical activity.

“A sentient umbrella speaks”

Since: Mar 11

Some stable somewhere

#638993 Jul 10, 2013
Al Garcia wrote:
<quoted text>
AL quickly runs to his pantry and frantically looks through his vast super secret stash of Cracker Jack boxes for a pilot license.......
Woohooo!

footrub?

“Is that all you've got?”

Since: Jun 10

Location hidden

#638994 Jul 10, 2013
Truth signed in wrote:
<quoted text>
I suppose they may have been daughters of Eve or possibly even granddaughters...It's a taboo subject, but hey...it happened...whether it be Adam and Eve with their children or incestuous hominids...
I suspect it was not taboo at first but later on when they started noticing that too close of a hook up produced deformities like polydactylism.

“Listen to the sounds”

Since: Feb 09

of your own extinction......

#638995 Jul 10, 2013
Double Fine wrote:
<quoted text>
Dude have you listened to System of a Down?
Yeah I did. Top stuff! haha.

:)

Since: Sep 11

Location hidden

#638996 Jul 10, 2013
RiversideRedneck wrote:
<quoted text>
That makes perfect sense.
But then why do atheists take the word of scientists & journalists & authors about God instead of a pastor holding a doctorate (a professional in the respective field)?
Specious argument. If I was a christian and wanted to know more about the christian interpretation of god, it would indeed make the most sense to go to a christian pastor. That's not the issue though. It's not like scientists are offering us a competing interpretation of god - our basic viewpoint is "god exists? Cool, prove it."

Why don't you take the word of a highly intelligent muslim apologist?

“A sentient umbrella speaks”

Since: Mar 11

Some stable somewhere

#638997 Jul 10, 2013
RiversideRedneck wrote:
<quoted text>
I have read up on it. I've tried studying it. I just can't get past the damn guessing games. Here, some guesses on Wiki:
"Volcanic outgassing probably created the primordial atmosphere, but it contained almost no oxygen and would have been toxic to humans and most modern life."
Ok, first, wikipedia is not science. Second, please read what you're quoting.

The above is a guess as to the source of the environmental state of the early earth - keep in mind, we're discussing whether science has a good picture of what the early earth was like, not why it was like that.

You are confusing the two when you present a quote like the above as if it refutes my statement, including confusing wikipedia with scientific knowledge.
"Much of the Earth was molten because of extreme volcanism and frequent collisions with other bodies."
Uh...yes. So? Where's the issue here?
"One very large collision is thought to have been responsible for tilting the Earth at an angle and forming the Moon."
Yup. Again, what's the issue?
"Over time, the planet cooled and formed a solid crust, allowing liquid water to exist on the surface."
How do we know that any of that is true?!?!?!??
Oh, your problem is that you believe science is limited by your lack of knowledge.

That's the argument fallacy of "personal incredulity." Once again, RR, we are not limited by your limitations.

Just go read about science - how it forms models, where its evidence comes from. I can't help you if you won't get beyond your own lack of knowledge here. I'm sorry, but scientific understanding is not limited by you, or your ignorance in these fields.

(at the same time, my inability to understand quantum mechanics doesn't slow the discipline down one bit)

“First it steals your mind..”

Since: Jun 11

..and then it steals your soul

#638998 Jul 10, 2013
nanoanomaly wrote:
<quoted text>"Commune" means "to speak intimately with". I would not speak intimately with anyone who's nature is to be snide, but I would speak formally with a snide lawyer, as business protocol requires. I was making the distinction between the two in a social setting, not a business one.
It was said tongue-in-cheek.

In a social setting, Double Fine communes with the ladies. Sometimes they are highly educated, sometimes not. But most times, Double Fine ends up being the life of the party.

Since: Sep 11

Location hidden

#638999 Jul 10, 2013
True Truth wrote:
<quoted text>
Snipped for space and because I can't get my post to show up.. maybe this will fix it.. sorry if I end up double or triple posting...
It all sounds barbaric, but when my parents and I were there, we were living a life we could not even imagine back in South Africa.
It is barbaric. I think that the official statistics from saudi arabia paint an unclear picture, however.

Starting with your claim about theft - it does seem that theft is indeed less of a problem in saudi arabia compared to the rest of the world. However, your assertion that "people don't steal" is false, as theft accounts for 47% of all crime in saudi arabia (in 2002, and it appears that crime has only gone up since then). Nevertheless, I will concede that theft does seem to be less of a problem than usual.

Regarding drugs - this is where your argument falls apart. Saudi arabia boasts the highest level of amphetamine seizures in the entire world, in spite of it's astoundingly barbaric trafficking laws. In 2009, saudi arabia accounted for 21% of all amphetamine seizures - 13554 kg in one year. The next closest was the US with around 7000 kg. So what do these brutal penalties accomplish?

http://deathpenaltynews.blogspot.com/2013/05/...

"The long-term growth in seizures in this region
was driven mainly by seizures in Saudi Arabia, which rose
consistently over the period 2000-2007, reaching 13.9
mt in 2007. Seizures in this country have remained
stable since then, amounting to 12.8 mt in 2008 and
13.4 mt in 2009. Saudi Arabia has a significant consumer market for Captagon tablets. In January 2010,
eight million Captagon pills were confiscated in a single
seizure in Saudi Arabia."

http://www.unodc.org/documents/data-and-analy...

Additionally, there is the potential that many crimes go unreported for various reasons. There's also the strong possibility that, since saudi arabia follows sharia law, many crimes are resolved without any official involvement (and therefore no record keeping). The easiest example, for both possibilities, would be rape - females are often blamed and punished for being raped, making it unlikely they will even report a rape in the first place. As for crimes being resolved without going to the authorities, one needs to look no further than the glorious practice of honor killing, whereby the "crime" of violating the standards of chastity is punished with death. This goes to show that the citizenry is certainly capable of resorting to vigilantism.

http://trueslant.com/nealungerleider/2010/01/...

http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/worldnews/158...

There's also the qutif rape case - a woman was thrown in jail and lashed for being gang raped.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Qatif_rape_case

So, basically, I will grant you that saudi arabia might have a lower crime rate overall, but my main point - that deterrents don't work, is actually bolstered by saudi arabia.

“A sentient umbrella speaks”

Since: Mar 11

Some stable somewhere

#639000 Jul 10, 2013
RiversideRedneck wrote:
<quoted text>
That's why you think theology is stupid, you expect it to give you information about the universe.
The Bible is designed to help teach you morality and more importantly about God, NOT the universe.
That'd be like complaining that reading War of the Worlds didn't teach you how to bake a cake.
Oh. That may have been where I went wrong then. Perhaps in reading my comments on theology, you're getting a glimmer of how frustrating it is to talk to someone who knows nothing of a discipline, yet produces authoritative, ignorant comments on it?

Anyways, the theology I read specifically tried to address religious reasoning with scientific thought - it was utterly culturally bound and woefully ignorant. And, it was from Oxford. If that's the best of the best, then theology is a complete waste of time.

“First it steals your mind..”

Since: Jun 11

..and then it steals your soul

#639001 Jul 10, 2013
Truth signed in wrote:
<quoted text>. Perhaps it isn't...but Josephus is considered a historian and is considered as a real person of ancient times.
Oh yes, certainly. But remember that his account is hardly a first-hand one.

This is exactly why 'hearsay' is a legal objection. The information given in testimony must be first-hand accounts

Since: Sep 11

Location hidden

#639002 Jul 10, 2013
RiversideRedneck wrote:
<quoted text>
Yes....
The burden of proof lies with someone who is making a claim....
"Adam & Eve didn't exist" is a claim.
But you don't ask them to prove that.
Go figure.
There is not enough evidence to support the existence of a historical adam/eve. That's not a claim, it's an observation. There is also not enough evidence to support the existence of unicorns.

Also, adam and eve as described in the bible could not have existed. We have traced our lineage back to y chromosomal adam and mitochondrial eve, and they didn't even live at the same time - potentially separated by hundreds of thousands of years.

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