Prove there's a god.

Since: Sep 11

Location hidden

#638472 Jul 9, 2013
Truth signed in wrote:
<quoted text>
In 2007 the annual cost of incarceration was 74 billion...In 2009 the annual cost of government drug abuse related costs was $468 billion....do the math.
Define "drug abuse related costs." I guarantee that "drug abuse related costs" are not limited to treatment centers. In fact, I would bet my bottom dollar that this figure includes things that are exacerbated by the backwards drug war you advocate - increased health costs because of bad drug education, increased health costs because of unsafe drug use, etc. If, for example, we put as much effort into needle exchanges as busting addicts, I'd bet we would see a significant decrease in health complications and therefore costs.

And yes, you can say that it's their fault for using in the first place and that it's not our responsibility to do these things, but that's an unrealistic attitude that ignores pretty much everything we know about drugs.

Just a quick list of some of the things I am assuming went into your "Drug cost" figure.

lost time off work
health care
incarceration
robbery
scams
drug violence

All of which would go away if we regulated the drug trade - this would destroy the black market in one fell swoop. Or do we still have speakeasys? Do people still die from bad batches of alcohol? Learn from history. Prohibition does not work.

“When you treat people as they ”

Since: Nov 10

treat you they get offended.

#638473 Jul 9, 2013
timn17 wrote:
<quoted text>Yep. Petty criminals are pure evil, I don't even know why we feed them in prison.
Look - I understand that it sucks to have something stolen from you - I get it. But I don't think that we should run our justice system based on emotion. That's barely better than vigilantism - it ignores the real issues (for example, the fact that we live in a society that can produce such desperation and then punish it with life imprisonment) in favor of a knee jerk reaction. There are truly bad people out there, but to assert that the average criminal deserves to spend time in some sort of gulag is simply barbaric and it reflects poorly on both of you. Things are a little more complicated than "he bad, he go to dungeon."
There is a case in the UK where a bunch of murders serving whole life sentences (because of the atrociousness of their crimes) have appealed their sentence on the grounds that such a sentence breaches their human rights.

And won

Since: Sep 11

Location hidden

#638474 Jul 9, 2013
True Truth wrote:
<quoted text>
It's not as simple as that. It depends on the enforcement of the deterrent and the approach. If law enforcement itself is corrupt, then it doesn't matter how harsh the law is.
So tell me where deterrents work. They certainly don't work here in the US, where we have some of the harshest drug laws around as well as some of the highest rates of abuse.

It really is as simple as that. Deterrents don't work.

Since: May 11

Ashford, UK

#638475 Jul 9, 2013
timn17 wrote:
<quoted text>We live in a society where prison life truly is easier than "real life" for some people. In prison you get a place to stay, food and health care. Some people don't have that stuff, and that creates desperation. Anyways, your opinion of the "criminal mind" and what not is totally irrelevant - the fact is, deterrents DO NOT WORK. How many times do I need to drill this into your head? No matter how badly we treat our (mostly nonviolent) offenders, people will still commit crime.
EVERYONE commits crimes! This is a a proven fact, the thing which influences them is the internal mechanism which calculates the likelihood of being caught and prosecuted. We are all criminals...and/or liars if we say we aren't.

The number of statutory offences which do not require intent has spiralled out of control in western countries, in most cases they are reverse onus offences where the defendant has to prove their innocence.

The governments have a vested interest in making as many laws as they possibly can as a means of social control and revenue generation. In the US asset forfeiture legislation is a case in point.

Routine Traffic Stop...legal(or illegal)search finds over $10k...officer seizes money...prosecutor must receive filings in 10 days giving details of the source of the money...if answer not satisfactory(ie. these are my savings and I don't trust banks is not good enough)the money is shared between several US government agencies...the complete removal of 5th amendment right in this case appears to be something which has just slid by unnoticed.

Since: May 11

Ashford, UK

#638476 Jul 9, 2013
ChristineM wrote:
<quoted text>
There is a case in the UK where a bunch of murders serving whole life sentences (because of the atrociousness of their crimes) have appealed their sentence on the grounds that such a sentence breaches their human rights.
And won
I've worked on the Bamber case...and in my professional opinion he is not guilty. He was tried by the Sun newpaper.
Forum

Carlsbad, NM

#638477 Jul 9, 2013
Too many teens are sexually abused.

“First it steals your mind..”

Since: Jun 11

..and then it steals your soul

#638478 Jul 9, 2013
ChristineM wrote:
<quoted text>
I shall leave that to your imagination
Ah, but that is very generous of you ;)

“First it steals your mind..”

Since: Jun 11

..and then it steals your soul

#638479 Jul 9, 2013
ChristineM wrote:
<quoted text>
All light is invisible
What you see is the interaction between light and the object
Yes, m'am. That is indeed so. If I can ammend that, what we see, is what our eyes are able to make out. For instance, we cannot see infrared.

That is what I thought he meant - infrared.

All light is invisible, except Double Fine

“First it steals your mind..”

Since: Jun 11

..and then it steals your soul

#638480 Jul 9, 2013
timn17 wrote:
<quoted text>Define "drug abuse related costs." I guarantee that "drug abuse related costs" are not limited to treatment centers. In fact, I would bet my bottom dollar that this figure includes things that are exacerbated by the backwards drug war you advocate - increased health costs because of bad drug education, increased health costs because of unsafe drug use, etc. If, for example, we put as much effort into needle exchanges as busting addicts, I'd bet we would see a significant decrease in health complications and therefore costs.
And yes, you can say that it's their fault for using in the first place and that it's not our responsibility to do these things, but that's an unrealistic attitude that ignores pretty much everything we know about drugs.
Just a quick list of some of the things I am assuming went into your "Drug cost" figure.
lost time off work
health care
incarceration
robbery
scams
drug violence
All of which would go away if we regulated the drug trade - this would destroy the black market in one fell swoop. Or do we still have speakeasys? Do people still die from bad batches of alcohol? Learn from history. Prohibition does not work.
Double Fine is an expert on drugs. There was a good time when hardly a day went by that Double Fine did NOT put anything new into his system.

Why not legalise the damned stuff and TAX it? A coke head is always gong to be a coke head. Double Fine still smokes his fair share of pot, and Motorhead is forever going to use speed on their live gigs. Legalise it, tax it, create a new revenue stream

“ad victoriam”

Since: Dec 10

arte et marte

#638481 Jul 9, 2013
ChristineM wrote:
<quoted text>
All light is invisible
What you see is the interaction between light and the object
http://www.school-for-champions.com/science/i...

“I see quantum effects”

Since: Jan 11

Location hidden

#638482 Jul 9, 2013
RiversideRedneck wrote:
<quoted text>
OMG girl, a journalist writes, yes?!??
WTF?
One of his more famous lines:
“That which can be asserted without evidence, can be dismissed without evidence.”
You're claim that Adam & Eve did not exist is easily dismissed.
You've got that backwards, as usual.

Your assertion that Adam and Eve existed-an assertion that you make without evidence-can be dismissed without evidence.

But you already know that. You just can't admit it.

“Listen to the sounds”

Since: Feb 09

of your own extinction......

#638483 Jul 9, 2013
MisterCharrington wrote:
<quoted text>
If jesus was alone and fasting in the wilderness for 40 days and 40 nights...
How come the Gospels of Matthew(65CE), Mark(70CE) and Luke(60CE-100CE) has the whole exchange between jesus and satan?
Was he alone(except for other people) in which case he wasn't alone was he?
How did these 'three'*bullshit cough* evangelists know about satan tempting jesus? How did he know that satan offered jesus the entire "four corners" of the earth?
Begging the question...If god is so powerful how come satan can make that kind of offer?
Even during the supposed crucifixion, the disciples admit to fleeing and abandoning Jesus, yet we must believe their account of what happened to Jesus and how he got crucified. They weren't even there. Those are not eye witness accounts. Those are what they heard from others.

Since: Oct 07

Location hidden

#638484 Jul 9, 2013
timn17 wrote:
<quoted text>No, RR. Some countries have the death penalty for drugs. And people still do drugs there. Your "harsh punishment = less crime theory" is total and complete nonsense, and you won't acknowledge it because you have a primal need to see criminals treated badly. Granted, there are criminals even I would like to torture, but that's the society I want to live in, where we allow our base emotions to guide the justice system.
Also, we don't "allow them access to drugs," you nitwit, they have drugs because the drug war is a miserable failure. If people want to get high, they will find a way. If we can't even keep drugs out of prison, what makes you think it's possible to eradicate them from society and destroy countless lives in the process?
I agree that the war on drugs is a miserable failure. Something is wrong when someone busted for cocaine possession gets more time in prison than a child molester.

“What if?”

Since: Jul 13

Location hidden

#638485 Jul 9, 2013
Just look around. Do you realize how complicated the cardiovascular system is? I for one can't fathom the thought of "this being it?" Believe in what you will, there is something or some force much greater than us in this infinite universe. Sure, evolution does explain A LOT and I also believe in evolution a huge part of the master plan. Why couldn't there be both? Creationism and Evolution? Mixed together, working together? I don't need to go to a church to believe nor do I go door to door selling my beliefs. If I stand in a garage, that doesn't make me a car? I am on the side of science yet I cannot simply believe it ends there. What ever gets me through the day and the same goes for you my friend.

Since: May 11

Ashford, UK

#638486 Jul 9, 2013
The_Savior wrote:
Just look around. Do you realize how complicated the cardiovascular system is? I for one can't fathom the thought of "this being it?" Believe in what you will, there is something or some force much greater than us in this infinite universe. Sure, evolution does explain A LOT and I also believe in evolution a huge part of the master plan. Why couldn't there be both? Creationism and Evolution? Mixed together, working together? I don't need to go to a church to believe nor do I go door to door selling my beliefs. If I stand in a garage, that doesn't make me a car? I am on the side of science yet I cannot simply believe it ends there. What ever gets me through the day and the same goes for you my friend.
...because there's no evidence for both.

One has a huge weight of evidence for it and the other has not one shred of evidence for it.

“I see quantum effects”

Since: Jan 11

Location hidden

#638487 Jul 9, 2013
Aura Mytha wrote:
<quoted text>
They had no idea what DNA was, much less what it was made of.
And I believe that they used to think that the atoms that made up life were different from the atoms that made up non-life.

But now we know that all atoms-those making up life and non-life- are the same.

“Listen to the sounds”

Since: Feb 09

of your own extinction......

#638488 Jul 9, 2013
timn17 wrote:
<quoted text>So tell me where deterrents work. They certainly don't work here in the US, where we have some of the harshest drug laws around as well as some of the highest rates of abuse.
It really is as simple as that. Deterrents don't work.
They work in Saudi Arabia and Dubai. They even have hand chopping laws for repeat offenders. If you borrow money and can't pay back, you could potentially end up in jail. The consequence is that the jewelry shops in town have display stands flowing out onto the pavements, like a flea market. People don't steal. If a person is convicted beyond all doubt for deliberate premeditated killing, they even have an open execution at a police venue if anyone wants to see what happens to murderers.

There is a sign in the airports, "Caution, if you are caught drug trafficking, you will be killed".

It's of course not 100%. Nothing ever is. But having jewelry, 21 carat gold out on tables in the street is something completely unheard of and unthinkable in South Africa.

Roughly 100 to 130 people die each year in Saudi Arabia at the hands of the state, with some years being as low as 30 people dead. Crime rates fluctuate from 60 to 300 crimes per 100 000 people each year.

It all sounds barbaric, but when my parents and I were there, we were living a life we could not even imagine back in South Africa.

“I see quantum effects”

Since: Jan 11

Location hidden

#638489 Jul 9, 2013
thewordofme wrote:
<quoted text>
Oh pleeeease!
:-)
Nano is our resident genius in all fields.

Just ask her.

Psssst...Don't tell anybody, but she also has a thing for RR.

“I see quantum effects”

Since: Jan 11

Location hidden

#638490 Jul 9, 2013
Double Fine wrote:
<quoted text>
Yo Redoran. Long time no see!
Yep, organic fertiliser works very well, because of all the trace amoints of goodies available. Unfortunately, it is hard to do this on an industrial scale. Let us take something simple like a huge piece of grass, i.e. a golf course. Fertilising that using organic material is a huge undertaking. Best to use a chemical pellet, like a few bags of 7:1:3, or 2:3:2
You do herbs, as well? Double Fine likes a good herb garden
Not THAT kind of herb...

“ad victoriam”

Since: Dec 10

arte et marte

#638491 Jul 9, 2013
Aerobatty wrote:
<quoted text>
And I believe that they used to think that the atoms that made up life were different from the atoms that made up non-life.
But now we know that all atoms-those making up life and non-life- are the same.
That's where carbon atoms are quite mysterious, technically
atoms can be the same, but only certain ones are made of carbon , hydrocarbons, fluorocarbons, it is the same but carbon can bond together and with other elements in infinitely different ways.
So in a sense they are different, but yet no different.
This is a interesting about it.

http://www.powershow.com/view/3be4b8-Y2IxN/Or...

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