Prove there's a god.

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“Listen to the sounds”

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of your own extinction......

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#633129
Jun 25, 2013
 

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Myth Buster wrote:
<quoted text>
100% wrong!
Once again, gawdunit is the single greatest source of ignorance throughout the world. Is the universe complex? Yes. Was the universe designed? No.
http://www.amazon.com/The-Universe-Order-With...
"Is the universe designed for life? Physicists have discovered that many seemingly unconnected phenomena, which took place millions of years apart, played a crucial role in the development of life on Earth. Does such evidence reveal a purpose behind the order of the universe?
NASA senior research scientist Carlos I. Calle explores this tantalizing question and many more in this wide-ranging introduction to the very latest and sundry theories about the origins and evolution of the enormous cosmos. From the big bang to the possibility of a big crunch he renders the complexities of theoretical physics beautifully lucid for the lay reader.
Calle begins by reviewing the milestones of 20th-century astrophysics: the confirmation of the big bang theory in the 1960s by the discovery of cosmic background radiation; the inflationary theory of universe expansion, which NASA observations have recently confirmed; the formulation of the essential laws of physics that govern the unfolding of all physical processes, from subatomic fluctuations to the formation of galaxies; and physicists' attempts to unify all the forces of nature.
Now, at the start of the 21st century, questions have been raised about the origins of the laws of physics. Do they suggest a Grand Designer, or is their existence a natural outcome of some automatic process? Calle lays out the cosmological models based on M-theory, which suggests that our particular universe may be one of an unimaginable number of universes, each with its own set of physical laws. According to one of the most promising models, the big bang may not be the moment of creation but the bridge to a past filled with endless cycles of universe creation and destruction.
Calle also provides an exciting look at Stephen Hawking's fascinating proposal that the universe had no origin and that present-day observers may influence the very nature of reality.
Did the universe require a prime mover the Grand Designer to create the planets, the stars, and the galaxies? The Universe Order without Design will give you plenty of food for thought."
You don't get it, the order IS the design. The laws are the design. And agreed, there may be other universes with vastly different laws . Different systems, that may or may not support life.

If you have a perception of God designing planets and stars on a mainframe computer and then poof, The planet exists, then such a perception is obviously proven false. There is no such god of that perception. But shooting down perceptions is nothing more than shooting down perceptions.

Just because one can understand and to some extent manipulate the system to our own advantage, does not negate that God created the system.

And the big crunch has been long disproven. The universe had a beginning and it has an end, in the big freeze. Well, if you can call that an end. It may actually end long after that.

“I Am No One Else”

Since: Apr 12

Seattle

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#633130
Jun 25, 2013
 

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True Truth wrote:
<quoted text>
You don't get it, the order IS the design....
So again, you are claiming that gold coins are proof that leprechauns exist.

“ The Lord of delirious minds.”

Since: Dec 10

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#633131
Jun 25, 2013
 

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True Truth wrote:
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You don't get it, the order IS the design. The laws are the design. And agreed, there may be other universes with vastly different laws . Different systems, that may or may not support life.
If you have a perception of God designing planets and stars on a mainframe computer and then poof, The planet exists, then such a perception is obviously proven false. There is no such god of that perception. But shooting down perceptions is nothing more than shooting down perceptions.
Just because one can understand and to some extent manipulate the system to our own advantage, does not negate that God created the system.
And the big crunch has been long disproven. The universe had a beginning and it has an end, in the big freeze. Well, if you can call that an end. It may actually end long after that.
Don't count out the Big Rip.
Natural laws are not a sign of a designer, it is a sign of forces coming to balance.

“ The Lord of delirious minds.”

Since: Dec 10

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#633132
Jun 25, 2013
 

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Double Fine wrote:
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Agreed. If you want reliability, Japan is unrivalled
Germans make this too, in fact all countries make some reliable models, problem is only a few people buy for reliability.
Most buy for looks , performance or function.

“Listen to the sounds”

Since: Feb 09

of your own extinction......

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#633133
Jun 25, 2013
 

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timn17 wrote:
<quoted text>When have I ever said god doesn't exist? My position is that the evidence for god is underwhelming and I don't believe in him. There's no point in even reading or responding to the rest of your post, because you are putting words in my mouth.
Again - you are making the positive claim, not me (and most atheists I know or have spoken to would never claim to know that god doesn't exist). The burden of proof is on you. Your definition of god as "nature" or "one," and your appeal to what basically amounts to a god that emerges from the elegance of nature is cute, but not evidence in any sense of the word.
And now you are doing the same thing that many many atheists do. You are retreating to agnosticism. Atheism is not the same as agnosticism. Agnosticism is a much broader term and there are theistic and atheistic agnostics.

Definition of Atheism:
Google search: "The theory or belief that God does not exist."
the Free Dictionary: "One who disbelieves or denies the existence of God or gods."
Merriam-Webster: "a disbelief in the existence of deity; the doctrine that there is no deity"
Wikipedia: " the rejection of belief in the existence of deities"
Dictionary.com : "the doctrine or belief that there is no God."

And that is all it is. There is no talk of evidence either way. All this talk of "I believe in evidence", "I believe in scientific inquiry", "I believe in questioning", has nothing to do with atheism. That is ideals that you and more famous salesmen like Richard Dawkins and Lawrence Krauss stack on atheism, but it has nothing to do with atheism.

You call yourself an atheist, and this is your belief, and so present your case for your belief. It is a simple request. Otherwise call yourself an agnostic and be done with it.

“There's a feeling I get...”

Since: Jun 11

...when I look to the West

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#633134
Jun 26, 2013
 
True Truth wrote:
<quoted text>
You guys are really spoilt for choice in the U.S.. In South Africa, car choice is pathetic. They are so many vehicles that we just don't get, or we get them years after their launch in the U.S.
I'm a Honda fan, and the U.S. has a great selection of awesome Hondas. But here in South Africa it's pathetic. Very little to choose from. We don't get half the Hondas you guys get.
The only good thing about South Africa's car market is that the cars are more reliable. Since we are so far behind on many models, the problems of a particular model are usually solved before the model comes to us. Compared to the U.S., we have much less incidents of mass recalls due to some manufacturing fault.
You are a Honda fan??

Just letting everybody on the thread know, I do not know this man.

“Listen to the sounds”

Since: Feb 09

of your own extinction......

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#633135
Jun 26, 2013
 
Aura Mytha wrote:
<quoted text> Don't count out the Big Rip.
Natural laws are not a sign of a designer, it is a sign of forces coming to balance.
You speak of forces and particles as if they have a mind, as if they care about balance. It's weird that the more sense you uncover, the more you present a case of there being no Creator. There is no reason for a force, for a photon of light, or for any kind of particle to follow any law, to strive for any balance or have any tendencies towards anything.

The big freeze would be the end of concentrated light in the universe. But yes I think the big rip is ultimately going to happen, though much later.

I am recently fascinated by the following Quranic verse:

The Day when We shall roll up the heavens as a recorder rolls up a written scroll. As We began the first creation, We shall repeat it.(It is) a promise (binding) upon Us. Lo! We are to perform it.- Quran [21:104]

I used to regard it as analogous of the swiftness at which judgement shall come on the last day. Yet recently I've been pondering whether this can literally happen. There is research that suggests the universe may be like a flat sheet, expanding in a single plane, and also slightly curved, and possibly getting more curved with time.

Perhaps the universe can literally be rolled up like a scroll. Maybe there are huge black holes that can suck an entire flat universe. Perhaps what we are seeing as expansion of our observable universe, is actually a destruction occurring much further away by a very massive black hole.

What do you think?

“Listen to the sounds”

Since: Feb 09

of your own extinction......

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#633136
Jun 26, 2013
 
KittenKoder wrote:
<quoted text>
So again, you are claiming that gold coins are proof that leprechauns exist.
That's a weak analogy since there are many who can create gold coins, and we know this as a fact.

And in any case, it sure as hell is more sensible to believe something created the coins, than believing the pot of gold coins created themselves over billions of years.

So if you find a tshirt that has no label on it, will you assume the universe created it as well?

“Listen to the sounds”

Since: Feb 09

of your own extinction......

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#633137
Jun 26, 2013
 

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Double Fine wrote:
<quoted text>
You are a Honda fan??
Just letting everybody on the thread know, I do not know this man.
Just sit in that ugly Civic hatch and go for a ride. Then we'll see what you say.

:)

“ The Lord of delirious minds.”

Since: Dec 10

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#633138
Jun 26, 2013
 

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True Truth wrote:
<quoted text>
You speak of forces and particles as if they have a mind, as if they care about balance. It's weird that the more sense you uncover, the more you present a case of there being no Creator. There is no reason for a force, for a photon of light, or for any kind of particle to follow any law, to strive for any balance or have any tendencies towards anything.
The big freeze would be the end of concentrated light in the universe. But yes I think the big rip is ultimately going to happen, though much later.
I am recently fascinated by the following Quranic verse:
The Day when We shall roll up the heavens as a recorder rolls up a written scroll. As We began the first creation, We shall repeat it.(It is) a promise (binding) upon Us. Lo! We are to perform it.- Quran [21:104]
I used to regard it as analogous of the swiftness at which judgement shall come on the last day. Yet recently I've been pondering whether this can literally happen. There is research that suggests the universe may be like a flat sheet, expanding in a single plane, and also slightly curved, and possibly getting more curved with time.
Perhaps the universe can literally be rolled up like a scroll. Maybe there are huge black holes that can suck an entire flat universe. Perhaps what we are seeing as expansion of our observable universe, is actually a destruction occurring much further away by a very massive black hole.
What do you think?
I think there isn't enough information to know.
But if my hypothesis is correct we are at the edge of a loop that once completed , the universe will start slowing and coming back together.

Since: Mar 11

Australia

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#633139
Jun 26, 2013
 
RiversideRedneck wrote:
<quoted text>
They dig the southern draw more than a filthy Brit accent.....
They prefer an Australian one above all :)

“There's a feeling I get...”

Since: Jun 11

...when I look to the West

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#633140
Jun 26, 2013
 
True Truth wrote:
<quoted text>
Just sit in that ugly Civic hatch and go for a ride. Then we'll see what you say.
:)
Hondas are reliable cars. That is a fact. Good cars.

They just don't stir the heartstrings. Even worse, they don't stir the loins

“There's a feeling I get...”

Since: Jun 11

...when I look to the West

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#633141
Jun 26, 2013
 
saidI wrote:
<quoted text>
They prefer an Australian one above all :)
Are you an Aussie?

Bad luck against the Lions.

Did you see my Boks play??

“Listen to the sounds”

Since: Feb 09

of your own extinction......

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#633142
Jun 26, 2013
 
Double Fine wrote:
<quoted text>
Hondas are reliable cars. That is a fact. Good cars.
They just don't stir the heartstrings. Even worse, they don't stir the loins
Haha. Well my Ballade is indeed a boring car. Very comfy, goes fast and well, very smooth ride, has all the intelligent gizmos, with the vehicle stability assist being the most awesome. Plus its tiptronic with paddle shift. As a result, I can't feel a thing when driving it, and that's what makes it boring. Even if I'm driving fast, I can't feel myself going fast.

Since: Mar 11

Australia

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#633143
Jun 26, 2013
 
True Truth wrote:
<quoted text>
You speak of forces and particles as if they have a mind, as if they care about balance. It's weird that the more sense you uncover, the more you present a case of there being no Creator. There is no reason for a force, for a photon of light, or for any kind of particle to follow any law, to strive for any balance or have any tendencies towards anything.
The big freeze would be the end of concentrated light in the universe. But yes I think the big rip is ultimately going to happen, though much later.
I am recently fascinated by the following Quranic verse:
The Day when We shall roll up the heavens as a recorder rolls up a written scroll. As We began the first creation, We shall repeat it.(It is) a promise (binding) upon Us. Lo! We are to perform it.- Quran [21:104]
I used to regard it as analogous of the swiftness at which judgement shall come on the last day. Yet recently I've been pondering whether this can literally happen. There is research that suggests the universe may be like a flat sheet, expanding in a single plane, and also slightly curved, and possibly getting more curved with time.
Perhaps the universe can literally be rolled up like a scroll. Maybe there are huge black holes that can suck an entire flat universe. Perhaps what we are seeing as expansion of our observable universe, is actually a destruction occurring much further away by a very massive black hole.
What do you think?
From what I've heard, some scientist's believe there to be a massive black hole in the center of our universe and that we are been sucked into this. That's one way the Earth will end or there is the Suns expansion, which will burn the Earth up.

Since: Mar 11

Australia

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#633144
Jun 26, 2013
 
Sorry that should have been " in the center of our Galaxy, not Universe" :)

“ The Lord of delirious minds.”

Since: Dec 10

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#633145
Jun 26, 2013
 

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saidI wrote:
<quoted text>
From what I've heard, some scientist's believe there to be a massive black hole in the center of our universe and that we are been sucked into this. That's one way the Earth will end or there is the Suns expansion, which will burn the Earth up.
Actually we are so far away from the galactic center , there is little possibility of that. The Sagi A star is also a particularly poor eater, and calm compared to other supermassive black holes.
But even with the violent ones a star must pass very close to be captured in it's event horizon.

Far more likely a thing to happen is the collision with Andromeda
flinging us either into it's or our galactic center , or even out of both systems. Bot equally a possibility the merge would go unnoticed.

“I Am No One Else”

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Seattle

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#633146
Jun 26, 2013
 

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True Truth wrote:
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And now you are doing the same thing that many many atheists do. You are retreating to agnosticism. Atheism is not the same as agnosticism. Agnosticism is a much broader term and there are theistic and atheistic agnostics.
Definition of Atheism:
Google search: "The theory or belief that God does not exist."
the Free Dictionary: "One who disbelieves or denies the existence of God or gods."
Merriam-Webster: "a disbelief in the existence of deity; the doctrine that there is no deity"
Wikipedia: " the rejection of belief in the existence of deities"
Dictionary.com : "the doctrine or belief that there is no God."
And that is all it is. There is no talk of evidence either way. All this talk of "I believe in evidence", "I believe in scientific inquiry", "I believe in questioning", has nothing to do with atheism. That is ideals that you and more famous salesmen like Richard Dawkins and Lawrence Krauss stack on atheism, but it has nothing to do with atheism.
You call yourself an atheist, and this is your belief, and so present your case for your belief. It is a simple request. Otherwise call yourself an agnostic and be done with it.
Atheism is not exclusive either, agnostic is knowledge, atheist is belief. An agnostic atheist just does not buy your idiotic myths.

“There's a feeling I get...”

Since: Jun 11

...when I look to the West

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#633147
Jun 26, 2013
 

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saidI wrote:
<quoted text>
From what I've heard, some scientist's believe there to be a massive black hole in the center of our universe and that we are been sucked into this. That's one way the Earth will end or there is the Suns expansion, which will burn the Earth up.
Not likely. Remember we are very far from the centre of the galaxy. And I mean 'far' in galactic terms.

“There's a feeling I get...”

Since: Jun 11

...when I look to the West

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#633148
Jun 26, 2013
 

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Aura Mytha wrote:
<quoted text>
Actually we are so far away from the galactic center , there is little possibility of that. The Sagi A star is also a particularly poor eater, and calm compared to other supermassive black holes.
But even with the violent ones a star must pass very close to be captured in it's event horizon.
Far more likely a thing to happen is the collision with Andromeda
flinging us either into it's or our galactic center , or even out of both systems. Bot equally a possibility the merge would go unnoticed.
Beat me to it.

My money is on 'nothing much will happen' when the galaxies collide. I think our little solar system would be safe yet.

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