Prove there's a god.
Myth Buster

United States

#631325 Jun 19, 2013
Forum wrote:
God is science.
Your blissful ignorance is absolutely astounding!

Science is the antithesis of religion. Science is based in reality on observation and experimentation and religion is based on dogma with no basis in reality.
Myth Buster

United States

#631326 Jun 19, 2013
psalms 23 wrote:
You should learn "how to think", and not "what to think"...
Never ever "think" a pathetically brainwashed godbot like you is as intelligent as a person of science! Evolution is common sense and irrefutable scientific fact. Your damn bible is totally inconsistent with evolution and reality, kid.

“I Am No One Else”

Since: Apr 12

Seattle

#631327 Jun 19, 2013
psalms 23 wrote:
<quoted text>
Yuup... You can tell those who are the students of darwinnie and dawkins brainwashed disciples, they regurgitate the same BS.
Oh and dont forget the most famous one of all,, "you just dont understand science", godbots are like that....lol
Pure projection.

Since: Aug 11

Location hidden

#631328 Jun 19, 2013
KittenKoder wrote:
<quoted text>
No such thing as the "genetic fallacy."
You're mistaken.

Since: Aug 11

Location hidden

#631329 Jun 19, 2013
Myth Buster wrote:
<quoted text>
Intelligent Design isn't science and anyone who states otherwise is is an imbecile or being deceitful.
You are either clueless or dishonest. Very likely both lol.
Greens - tuf

Annandale, Australia

#631330 Jun 19, 2013
Myth Buster wrote:
<quoted text>
Never ever "think" a pathetically brainwashed godbot like you is as intelligent as a person of science! Evolution is common sense and irrefutable scientific fact. Your damn bible is totally inconsistent with evolution and reality, kid.
Never ever "think" a pathetically brainwashed aggressively arrogant person like you can contribute anything of value.

“Listen to the sounds”

Since: Feb 09

of your own extinction......

#631331 Jun 20, 2013
xianity is EVIL wrote:
<quoted text>
until you PROVE gods existence, atheism is on pretty solid ground,,appologetics such as your special pleading fallacy proves nothing
Universe is extremely hostile to human life,I dont see anything orderely in it,
Is that your perception of order? Is order defined by the ability of humans to live in any or all specific points in the universe?

The laws of nature as uncovered by theistic and atheistic scientists throughout the ages, exist everywhere. Is that not order? Every single particle follows law. Even while previously, it was thought that certain things are chaotic, modern science has uncovered the order, the system by which everything operates.

The evidence is overwhelming. There is nothing senseless about the universe. Nothing disoderly. Everything is a product of an elegant and intelligent system of law. Are we to assume that it all conveniently exists?

That is an insane choice you choose to make. I believe in a Creator and that is far more sensible than your belief in convenience. Perhaps someday humans will find out that an entirely different universe exists with completely different system of laws. What will the atheists say then? More convenience.

Convenience is your god.

“I Am No One Else”

Since: Apr 12

Seattle

#631332 Jun 20, 2013
True Truth wrote:
<quoted text>
Is that your perception of order? Is order defined by the ability of humans to live in any or all specific points in the universe?
The laws of nature as uncovered by theistic and atheistic scientists throughout the ages, exist everywhere. Is that not order? Every single particle follows law. Even while previously, it was thought that certain things are chaotic, modern science has uncovered the order, the system by which everything operates.
The evidence is overwhelming. There is nothing senseless about the universe. Nothing disoderly. Everything is a product of an elegant and intelligent system of law. Are we to assume that it all conveniently exists?
That is an insane choice you choose to make. I believe in a Creator and that is far more sensible than your belief in convenience. Perhaps someday humans will find out that an entirely different universe exists with completely different system of laws. What will the atheists say then? More convenience.
Convenience is your god.
Actually, neither is "order." Order is a completely arbitrary concept which is useful for nothing more than comparative reasoning, beyond that, "order" has no meaning. If you compare it to the machines we produce, say a computer for example, the universe is very chaotic, and appears quite random.

Ah, but then "random" is also not a definitive description either. What appears random is simply things which are influenced by too many, or very miniscule, factors as to be capable of any form of accurate prediction within the context used. A die roll is never random, but we are incapable of accurately predicting how all the forces influencing the momentum of the die will effect it's trajectory, so we simply assume it's "random" and leave it at that, but it's far from random.

We often delegate descriptions to math, using formulas and such that aid in our understanding. Often we come to these "laws," which really are not laws as there are always exceptions to them, somewhere. There was once a law that nothing could move faster than sound .... well, except light, but they couldn't measure light back then. That's no longer a law, now everything is an exception to that law because we know that our own planet breaks that speed.

So then we change it to "constants," where we're at now. However these constants are becoming more and more fuzzy with each new discovery. The speed of light, when you apply relativity to the speed of "space" becomes much greater at some points, and much slower at others. We have even figured out that the "edge" of the universe, another relative term, is moving away from us faster than the speed of light. Now how would this be possible if the speed of light was a "law?" It wouldn't be. So, there is no "order," depending on what you are comparing it too.
Greens - tuf

Annandale, Australia

#631333 Jun 20, 2013
KittenKoder wrote:
<quoted text>
Actually, neither is "order." Order is a completely arbitrary concept which is useful for nothing more than comparative reasoning, beyond that, "order" has no meaning. If you compare it to the machines we produce, say a computer for example, the universe is very chaotic, and appears quite random.
Ah, but then "random" is also not a definitive description either. What appears random is simply things whi influenced by too many, or very miniscule, factors as to be capable of any form of accurate prediction within the context used. A die roll is never random, but we are incapable of accurately predicting how all the forces influencing the momentum of the die will effect it's trajectory, so we simply assume it's "random" and leave it at that, but it's far from random.
We often delegate descriptions to math, using formulas and such that aid in our understanding. Often we come to these "laws," which really are not laws as there are always exceptions to them, somewhere. There was once a law that nothing could move faster than sound .... well, except light, but they couldn't measure light back then. That's no longer a law, now everything is an exception to that law because we know that our own planet breaks that speed.
So then we change it to "constants," where we're at now. However these constants are becoming more and more fuzzy with each new discovery. The speed of light, when you apply relativity to the speed of "space" becomes much greater at some points, and much slower at others. We have even figured out that the "edge" of the universe, another relative term, is moving away from us faster than the speed of light. Now how would this be possible if the speed of light was a "law?" It wouldn't be. So, there is no "order," depending on what you are comparing it too.
In order to have order you also need disorder.
Entropy fits that bill.

It happens every day here on earth. People are born and at the same time people die.
Forum

Carlsbad, NM

#631334 Jun 20, 2013
Myth Buster wrote:
<quoted text>
Your blissful ignorance is absolutely astounding!
Science is the antithesis of religion. Science is based in reality on observation and experimentation and religion is based on dogma with no basis in reality.
When you see God it will be real science.
I first saw him when I was three.
He covered the sky.
Greens - tuf

Annandale, Australia

#631335 Jun 20, 2013
The Universe does not take sides.
In order to grow the Universe needs order so as to create disorder.
We in this form are just pawns , emotional pawns, releasing energy which the Universe feeds on.
Some days are good, some days are bad.

Since: Sep 11

Location hidden

#631337 Jun 20, 2013
nanoanomaly wrote:
<quoted text>That's not what I said, dumbass.
I was joking.

Since: Sep 11

Location hidden

#631338 Jun 20, 2013
Freebird USA wrote:
1. It is generally accepted that whoever resorts to personal attacks in a debate is the loser.
2. As to belief in a deity and intellectual prowess ,Christopher Langan a proponent of ID has a verified IQ of 195 and was referred to by the former director of NASA as "the smartest man I've ever met"!
3. Petty gasbags who waste half their posts on insults are only displaying their own inadequacies
Smart people can believe dumb things. And smart people are very good at justifying dumb beliefs to themselves. A human brain is still a human brain, after all.

Since: Sep 11

Location hidden

#631339 Jun 20, 2013
Freebird USA wrote:
<quoted text>
So why no refutation of myths posts that not only contain appeals to authority but have committed the genetic fallacy? Could it be because you happen to agree with his conclusions so you bend the rules?Very telling
WTF is the genetic fallacy?

“Listen to the sounds”

Since: Feb 09

of your own extinction......

#631340 Jun 20, 2013
KittenKoder wrote:
<quoted text>
Actually, neither is "order." Order is a completely arbitrary concept which is useful for nothing more than comparative reasoning, beyond that, "order" has no meaning. If you compare it to the machines we produce, say a computer for example, the universe is very chaotic, and appears quite random.
Ah, but then "random" is also not a definitive description either. What appears random is simply things which are influenced by too many, or very miniscule, factors as to be capable of any form of accurate prediction within the context used. A die roll is never random, but we are incapable of accurately predicting how all the forces influencing the momentum of the die will effect it's trajectory, so we simply assume it's "random" and leave it at that, but it's far from random.
We often delegate descriptions to math, using formulas and such that aid in our understanding. Often we come to these "laws," which really are not laws as there are always exceptions to them, somewhere. There was once a law that nothing could move faster than sound .... well, except light, but they couldn't measure light back then. That's no longer a law, now everything is an exception to that law because we know that our own planet breaks that speed.
So then we change it to "constants," where we're at now. However these constants are becoming more and more fuzzy with each new discovery. The speed of light, when you apply relativity to the speed of "space" becomes much greater at some points, and much slower at others. We have even figured out that the "edge" of the universe, another relative term, is moving away from us faster than the speed of light. Now how would this be possible if the speed of light was a "law?" It wouldn't be. So, there is no "order," depending on what you are comparing it too.
Why would you say that a machine or computer is more orderly than the universe? Is it because it give humans what they want? Is that the judge of order? The ability to have a purpose and produce what the humans want it to produce? Or is order merely repetition, fine lines and corners?

When many humans try to perceive a Creator, they try to perceive compare it to how they create things. Human perceive natural laws, set out a purpose to create something, design it and manufacture it either by hand or with the aid of machines (which they previously designed and built by hand), by taking raw materials and combining them to form a useful product.

When it came to life, humans perceived the Creator as someone in the sky designing and practically handcrafting all species. And with evolution now proven, that perception is turned on its head. But what many people failed to realise, is that evolution and abiogenesis is a far more intelligent way of creating, upgrading and propagating species. The Creator is not turned on its head. It is merely this perception of a big sky man in a divine workshop handcrafting species is turned on its head.

As we know more, our perception of law and order, even logic has to progress. We cannot simply place a fixed criterion on order, and judge all the way. If we do that, then ultimately everything would be disorderly and illogical. At the very base levels of things, we are seeing law, deeper and deeper we go. Even with the "edges" of the universe, there is law. It is simply not law that is well understood. Now if the perception that "Nothing can ever go faster than the speed of light", is going to be your die hard perception of order, then you will see disorder. But if you allow your perception of order to change, you will easily see a higher order of things.

“Listen to the sounds”

Since: Feb 09

of your own extinction......

#631341 Jun 20, 2013
timn17 wrote:
<quoted text>WTF is the genetic fallacy?
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Genetic_fallacy

That's the great thing about Topix. One can learn a lot through debate. See, now you learnt something new.

“I Am No One Else”

Since: Apr 12

Seattle

#631342 Jun 20, 2013
True Truth wrote:
<quoted text>
Why would you say that a machine or computer is more orderly than the universe?.....
Everything in a machine works to benefit the whole, each part of the machine serves a specific purpose for which it was designed. The universe has neither of these traits.

“I Am No One Else”

Since: Apr 12

Seattle

#631343 Jun 20, 2013
True Truth wrote:
<quoted text>
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Genetic_fallacy
That's the great thing about Topix. One can learn a lot through debate. See, now you learnt something new.
So you admit that "original sin" is a fallacy.
Greens - tuf

Annandale, Australia

#631344 Jun 20, 2013
interracialsocialc0m wrote:
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Thank-you. I shall past it on to my wife.
Cheers.
Greens - tuf

Annandale, Australia

#631345 Jun 20, 2013
Greens - tuf wrote:
<quoted text>
Thank-you. I shall past it on to my wife.
Cheers.
. "Pass"

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