Prove there's a god.

“Ditat Deus”

Since: Jul 12

Location hidden

#627814 Jun 3, 2013
ChristineM wrote:
<quoted text>
Just like that I am supposed to forget a threat of murder? Yes you would like that wouldn’t you? Forget that you screwed up and it may all go away, that’s the christian way after all, are you completely off your rocker?
Or is threatening behaviour so commonplace to you that it means nothing?
You need to remember that I have been on the receiving end of christian violence before, it is not something easily forgotten, even if spewed in fun.
There was no threat, you tight wad.

“Ditat Deus”

Since: Jul 12

Location hidden

#627815 Jun 3, 2013
ChristineM wrote:
<quoted text>
Omnipotent = infinite energy
As you say yourself, energy cannot be created or destroyed, only changed.
If your god were infinite (and/or eternal) there would be no energy left to change in to anything else.
You exist therefore your god cannot be omnipotent or eternal.
If KJV revelation 19:6 was wrong than why assume that any other passage is correct?
Why do you assume God is restricted to laws, our laws, of physics?

“When you treat people as they ”

Since: Nov 10

treat you they get offended.

#627816 Jun 3, 2013
True Truth wrote:
<quoted text>
You contradict yourself. If God is the omnipotent creator of the universe ie. having infinite power, then why would He have to adhere to any law in the universe? Why should the Creator be bound by any law of the creation?
And why would you think that God is some physical entity bound by space? A God having omnipotence, would be able to be everywhere. It doesn't mean that if He is outside the Universe, then He is far away. An omnipotent God can be everywhere at once, inside and outside of the universe, inside you even.
You are swimming within the pond of 20th century logic and science. You need to step out of logic, push the boundaries of logic. You may think that it sounds crazy, but scientific discovery has been made largely by pushing the boundaries of logic. Even today, scientists are developing the concept of dark matter and dark energy. Dark matter is matter which completely does not follow any physical laws. It permeates through everything, existing in this universe, perhaps outside, and yet even within us, going through us. It all sounds absolutely crazy to the layman, but it is strongly developing science. These are things that 21st century scientists are getting to grips with now, that Einstein did not know.
So if something like dark matter doesn't follow any classical or quantum physics, why should a creator of dark matter and everything else follow any laws?
Nope I contradict your interpretation, I do not and cannot contradict logic and hard fact. My whole argument is that unlike it says in the babble no entity can comprise of infinite power in a finite universe and you exist at the same time. It’s you who says your god is omnipotent, not me

Because the laws that govern this universe govern this universe. You may well be willing to accept that an unknown entity with infinite power can exist in a finite area of energy but that does not mean that entity exists, it just means you believe that the entity exists.

I do not think god is anything other than a belief, a thought in the mind. There is evidence to contradict this.

You are missing the whole point, perhaps deliberately. The word used in the babble is omnipotent. I did not write the babble, Einstein did not write the babble, the babble, particularly the part in question was written around 200 years after the late JC was claimed to have lived. The understanding of the consequences of using such a word were not understood at that time, it’s only recently that understanding has been resolved.

The century has nothing to do with logic and science, and scientific discovery is the means by which I back up my claim. I am not interested in pseudo-science or magic or the “supernatural” or faith, these have been shown to be poor bed fellows that limit enquiry and intelligence.

I know what dark matter and dark energy is thank you, and yes dark matter does follow physical laws, see the CERN website to follow the progress of cataloguing it’s properties. As for dark energy, it was predicted early last century and now in places it has been measured, the measurements more or less match he predictions.

True Einstein could not tread the future, just as the babble authors couldn’t. However even the recent neutrino experiments at CERN that originally cast doubt on the E=MC^2 equation have been re-evaluated to show the equation is sound and the equipment was at fault.

“When you treat people as they ”

Since: Nov 10

treat you they get offended.

#627817 Jun 3, 2013
RiversideRedneck wrote:
<quoted text>
There was no threat, you tight wad.
Yes there was, you go around pointing guns at people (even in your imagination) then boasting about it that is the action of threat by a mental defective. You stupid moron

“Ditat Deus”

Since: Jul 12

Location hidden

#627818 Jun 3, 2013
shorty469 wrote:
"Religion is the impotence of the human mind to deal with occurrences it cannot understand."
~Karl Marx
OCB wrote:
<quoted text>Not to mention "the opiate of the masses".....
Figures that you'd agree with a communist prick.

“Ditat Deus”

Since: Jul 12

Location hidden

#627819 Jun 3, 2013
OCB wrote:
<quoted text>Sigh.....what does such a statement prove?
Nothing more than the following statements prove:
1. Prove there is not a Santa Claus
2. Prove there is not a Tooth Fairy
3. Prove there are not leprechauns
4. Prove there are not little green Martians (or big ones, for that matter)
5. Prove there are no pink unicorns (or any other color, for that matter)
Only that which IS can be proven to exist.
Sure, so me the PTASC thread and I'm aaaaallllll over it.

“Ditat Deus”

Since: Jul 12

Location hidden

#627820 Jun 3, 2013
OCB wrote:
<quoted text>And do you think all the good and pleasure in this world is caused by a god?
Philosophy 101:
There must be evil in order to appreciate good.
There must be ugly in order to appreciate beauty.
There must be night in order to appreciate day.
There must be cold in order to appreciate warmth.
And so it goes.
And btw, all the ills in the world that you mention doesn't negate the good of doing something such as recycling soda cans.
In our own ways- small as they may be- we can all do something to help others or the planet itself and while those efforts may be small, they are not meaningless or insignificant.
There is no such thing as evil, it's simply the absence of good.

What is ugly and beautiful is extremely opinionated.

It's simple to appreciate the night, no need for day. Or are you comparing light & dark? Cuz there's no such thing as dark, it's just the absence of light, which is why once something is utter dark, you can't make it darker.

There's no such thing as cold, it's merely the absence of heat.

“H-o-o-o-o-o-o-ld on thar!”

Since: Sep 08

The Borderland of Sol

#627821 Jun 3, 2013
ChristineM wrote:
<quoted text>
It’s waaasssuuup, when has wise ever come into it?
Laffin.

Concedo.

“When you treat people as they ”

Since: Nov 10

treat you they get offended.

#627822 Jun 3, 2013
RiversideRedneck wrote:
<quoted text>
Why do you assume God is restricted to laws, our laws, of physics?
Because it is the universe, the physical laws of this universe are immutable, it makes not the slightest difference that you believe differently

Why do you assume that he is not? Is it because you have noting else? Nothing to contradict except pure belief.
xianity is EVIL

Bridgetown, Canada

#627823 Jun 3, 2013
True Truth wrote:
<quoted text>
You contradict yourself. If God is the omnipotent creator of the universe ie. having infinite power, then why would He have to adhere to any law in the universe? Why should the Creator be bound by any law of the creation?
And why would you think that God is some physical entity bound by space? A God having omnipotence, would be able to be everywhere. It doesn't mean that if He is outside the Universe, then He is far away. An omnipotent God can be everywhere at once, inside and outside of the universe, inside you even.
You are swimming within the pond of 20th century logic and science. You need to step out of logic, push the boundaries of logic. You may think that it sounds crazy, but scientific discovery has been made largely by pushing the boundaries of logic. Even today, scientists are developing the concept of dark matter and dark energy. Dark matter is matter which completely does not follow any physical laws. It permeates through everything, existing in this universe, perhaps outside, and yet even within us, going through us. It all sounds absolutely crazy to the layman, but it is strongly developing science. These are things that 21st century scientists are getting to grips with now, that Einstein did not know.
So if something like dark matter doesn't follow any classical or quantum physics, why should a creator of dark matter and everything else follow any laws?
you can imagine god to be anything you want,but,untill you prove it,its NOT there..
btw
for a god to know anything it would need to have physical brain,yes?or do you think Dark matter thinks??LOL

“Listen to the sounds”

Since: Feb 09

of your own extinction......

#627824 Jun 3, 2013
ChristineM wrote:
<quoted text>
Nope I contradict your interpretation, I do not and cannot contradict logic and hard fact. My whole argument is that unlike it says in the babble no entity can comprise of infinite power in a finite universe and you exist at the same time. It’s you who says your god is omnipotent, not me
Because the laws that govern this universe govern this universe. You may well be willing to accept that an unknown entity with infinite power can exist in a finite area of energy but that does not mean that entity exists, it just means you believe that the entity exists.
I do not think god is anything other than a belief, a thought in the mind. There is evidence to contradict this.
You are missing the whole point, perhaps deliberately. The word used in the babble is omnipotent. I did not write the babble, Einstein did not write the babble, the babble, particularly the part in question was written around 200 years after the late JC was claimed to have lived. The understanding of the consequences of using such a word were not understood at that time, it’s only recently that understanding has been resolved.
The century has nothing to do with logic and science, and scientific discovery is the means by which I back up my claim. I am not interested in pseudo-science or magic or the “supernatural” or faith, these have been shown to be poor bed fellows that limit enquiry and intelligence.
I know what dark matter and dark energy is thank you, and yes dark matter does follow physical laws, see the CERN website to follow the progress of cataloguing it’s properties. As for dark energy, it was predicted early last century and now in places it has been measured, the measurements more or less match he predictions.
True Einstein could not tread the future, just as the babble authors couldn’t. However even the recent neutrino experiments at CERN that originally cast doubt on the E=MC^2 equation have been re-evaluated to show the equation is sound and the equipment was at fault.
Dark matter does not follow physical laws. It does not interact with electromagnetic force. It doesn't interact with light. They defy gravity.

I find it very weird that you would think God would be governed by the laws of the universe. If God exists, then it means He created the universe. Why should He be governed by laws which He created? If I build a robot, does it mean I am answerable to that robot? I have to do what that robot says? Live under that robots rules?

I know the Bible was written over 200 years after Jesus, with the ultimate copy existing only since 325 AD. That is why I do not believe in most of the Bible. My argument here, is on your perception of omnipotence. Unlimited power, the power to do anything. If I had unlimited power, the first thing I'll do is defy gravity and go flying around like superman. Next, I'll fly all around the universe, faster than the speed of light. I'll have unlimited power after all, so naturally I'll be able to break that light speed. And who needs oxygen when I have unlimited power? I'll go have a look at the stars up close, reach many of them seconds, as opposed to years as light would take. And I'll do all of this while making a cup of coffee and watching Avatar. I'll have unlimited power, so naturally I'll be able to be in multiple places at the same time. If you mess with me, I'll turn into a T-rex. Unlimited power, so I can do it! Life and death, rules, it'll all be a joke to me. I'll laugh at all you ants with all your limitations, your binding rules. And if I get bored, I'll just destroy this universe and make the next one yellow with green stars. I'll redesign evolution to make the dolphins smarter and the humans dumber, so the dolphins will rule the world. Maybe I'll create life in every planet and the next batch of creatures live in their rules, their limitations. Haha :)

“When you treat people as they ”

Since: Nov 10

treat you they get offended.

#627825 Jun 3, 2013
RiversideRedneck wrote:
<quoted text>
There is no such thing as evil, it's simply the absence of good.
What is ugly and beautiful is extremely opinionated.
It's simple to appreciate the night, no need for day. Or are you comparing light & dark? Cuz there's no such thing as dark, it's just the absence of light, which is why once something is utter dark, you can't make it darker.
There's no such thing as cold, it's merely the absence of heat.
Say what? You say there is no such thing as evil then you go and define it – wow that’s christian logic for you.

Dark is the default state, No matter how fast the light goes darks is there first.

There is no such thing as heat, merely absence of cold. The average temperature of the universe is less than 3 degrees kelvin. And that is with several hundred billion galaxies with several hundred billion suns each pumping out trillions and trillions of kW of heat each over billions of years.
xianity is EVIL

Bridgetown, Canada

#627826 Jun 3, 2013
RiversideRedneck wrote:
<quoted text>
There is no such thing as evil, it's simply the absence of good.
What is ugly and beautiful is extremely opinionated.
It's simple to appreciate the night, no need for day. Or are you comparing light & dark? Cuz there's no such thing as dark, it's just the absence of light, which is why once something is utter dark, you can't make it darker.
There's no such thing as cold, it's merely the absence of heat.
been studing more kristain appolegetics?

you lose

Perhaps the most famous rendition of this argument is in the urban legend that circulates e-mail and social networks which has a young Albert Einstein in rapt debate with his professor.[1]
The professor asks, "Did God make everything?" One eager student happily yells out a yes. The mean atheist teacher, hoping to trick his faithful students into a quandary smirks, says:
"What about...[2] EVIL?!" The eager student explains about darkness being the absence of light, and cold being the absence of heat, and evil being just the absence of God. Of course, the professor was dumbstruck. The student's name? Albert Einstein.
Why is the story very unlikely to be true?
The dear Albert, not unlike Hitler for other uses, is always being dragged into urban legends when a generically smart person is used, even more so when this "smart person" is so often associated with atheists - which can be quite a blow to Christians.
The telling of the tale, the "atheist professor", and the build-up to the grand conclusion has all the leanings of an urban legend.
It's still just a really bad argument to boot. Appealing to authority is also a bad argument, so using a doubly-bad argument to save a bad argument is just lacking good.
[edit]Criticism of the argument

The argument is nothing more than a play on words wrapped in an appealing analogy. The principal error is that defining cold as an absence of heat only means that cold does not exist only as a physical quantity - the sensation of cold as perceived by humans clearly does exist. Similarly, it is irrelevant whether evil exists as a positive or only as a lack of good - the perception of evil does exist.
Applying this argument to actual instances of evil results in really bizarre statements. If someone murders a man's wife, the apologists would tell him that his wife did not experience evil, she just experienced a temporary lack of God while the killer was stabbing her with a knife. However, the man still experiences suffering and his wife is dead, regardless of how the apologists describe this event. An omnibenevolent God would not absent himself/herself in ways that cause or allow suffering.
Huh

Dallas, TX

#627827 Jun 3, 2013
True Truth wrote:
<quoted text>
You contradict yourself. If God is the omnipotent creator of the universe ie. having infinite power, then why would He have to adhere to any law in the universe? Why should the Creator be bound by any law of the creation?
And why would you think that God is some physical entity bound by space? A God having omnipotence, would be able to be everywhere. It doesn't mean that if He is outside the Universe, then He is far away. An omnipotent God can be everywhere at once, inside and outside of the universe, inside you even.
You are swimming within the pond of 20th century logic and science. You need to step out of logic, push the boundaries of logic. You may think that it sounds crazy, but scientific discovery has been made largely by pushing the boundaries of logic. Even today, scientists are developing the concept of dark matter and dark energy. Dark matter is matter which completely does not follow any physical laws. It permeates through everything, existing in this universe, perhaps outside, and yet even within us, going through us. It all sounds absolutely crazy to the layman, but it is strongly developing science. These are things that 21st century scientists are getting to grips with now, that Einstein did not know.
So if something like dark matter doesn't follow any classical or quantum physics, why should a creator of dark matter and everything else follow any laws?
This is nothing more than special pleading and an argument from ignorance. Uh, and it's the 21st Century. We don't need your ridiculous superstitions any more.
Huh

Dallas, TX

#627828 Jun 3, 2013
Aerobatty wrote:
<quoted text>
He's happier living the comfortable lie.
He thinks everybody else will be, too.
THAT'S the problem religion.
They can't be happy just living their own fantasy.
And they're not trying to convince us. They're trying to convince themselves.
Exactly.
Huh

Dallas, TX

#627829 Jun 3, 2013
RiversideRedneck wrote:
<quoted text>
Why do you assume God is restricted to laws, our laws, of physics?
Special pleading. The omnipotence paradox is ridiculous. So, your invisible friend can vpcretae a rock that is too large for it to move then. Check.

“When you treat people as they ”

Since: Nov 10

treat you they get offended.

#627830 Jun 3, 2013
True Truth wrote:
<quoted text>
Dark matter does not follow physical laws. It does not interact with electromagnetic force. It doesn't interact with light. They defy gravity.
I find it very weird that you would think God would be governed by the laws of the universe. If God exists, then it means He created the universe. Why should He be governed by laws which He created? If I build a robot, does it mean I am answerable to that robot? I have to do what that robot says? Live under that robots rules?
I know the Bible was written over 200 years after Jesus, with the ultimate copy existing only since 325 AD. That is why I do not believe in most of the Bible. My argument here, is on your perception of omnipotence. Unlimited power, the power to do anything. If I had unlimited power, the first thing I'll do is defy gravity and go flying around like superman. Next, I'll fly all around the universe, faster than the speed of light. I'll have unlimited power after all, so naturally I'll be able to break that light speed. And who needs oxygen when I have unlimited power? I'll go have a look at the stars up close, reach many of them seconds, as opposed to years as light would take. And I'll do all of this while making a cup of coffee and watching Avatar. I'll have unlimited power, so naturally I'll be able to be in multiple places at the same time. If you mess with me, I'll turn into a T-rex. Unlimited power, so I can do it! Life and death, rules, it'll all be a joke to me. I'll laugh at all you ants with all your limitations, your binding rules. And if I get bored, I'll just destroy this universe and make the next one yellow with green stars. I'll redesign evolution to make the dolphins smarter and the humans dumber, so the dolphins will rule the world. Maybe I'll create life in every planet and the next batch of creatures live in their rules, their limitations. Haha :)
Yes it does follow it’s particular laws those laws my be “above” the standard model but they are predicted basdd on that standard model. However dark matter does not (as far as is known) react with electromagnetism but it does have an effect on gravity researchers have inferred it’s presence by gravitational lensing.

http://chandra.harvard.edu/photo/2012/a383/
http://www.nasa.gov/mission_pages/GLAST/news/...

I think it’s very weird that you think any entity in this universe is not governed by the laws of the universe, why should anything claimed to exist within this universe not adhere to the laws of this universe. Making exceptions just because that’s what you want to believe does not wash.

Building a robot requires the physical laws of the universe and that you follow the laws of the universe to build it in the first place, bad example.

Nope the power would be limited to what is available, what is available is not infinite therefore not omnipotent.

Your dreams are you own affair and are dreams. Dolphins are pretty smart, as are pigs and birds of the crow family and … etc, etc…

However in this universe and in most circumstances life is not possible. It’s a very limited band of heat and particular chemicals that allow life to exists. The universe is not and cannot be built in the way you dream
Huh

Dallas, TX

#627831 Jun 3, 2013
RiversideRedneck wrote:
shorty469 wrote:
"Religion is the impotence of the human mind to deal with occurrences it cannot understand."
~Karl Marx
<quoted text>
Figures that you'd agree with a communist prick.
Anotehr logical fallacy, confusing association with causation. Ridiculous.

“Ditat Deus”

Since: Jul 12

Location hidden

#627832 Jun 3, 2013
ChristineM wrote:
<quoted text>
Yes there was, you go around pointing guns at people (even in your imagination) then boasting about it that is the action of threat by a mental defective. You stupid moron
Lol...

Ok, ok. If you say so.

“Ditat Deus”

Since: Jul 12

Location hidden

#627833 Jun 3, 2013
ChristineM wrote:
<quoted text>
Because it is the universe, the physical laws of this universe are immutable, it makes not the slightest difference that you believe differently
Why do you assume that he is not? Is it because you have noting else? Nothing to contradict except pure belief.
If God has the power to create the universe, what makes you think He has to obey it's laws?

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